Good.
The Trump administration rule would rein in states’ ability to enroll recipients earning more than 130% of the federal poverty guidelines — in most cases capping eligibility to an annual income of $32,640 for a family of four. Households are also limited in most cases to $2,250 in countable assets, such as cash or money in bank accounts.
Forty states and the District of Columbia currently use alternative eligibility criteria that allow participants in some federally funded welfare programs to automatically receive food stamps as long as their income is less than double the poverty level.
In an age of 3% unemployment and rising wages, food stamp usage should be almost nothing.
In a state where assets are excluded, you can be billionaire with no regular in come and get food stamps.
How often do you think that happens, Kev, compared to the number of people with no assets (or even only debt) and no income asks for help?
jjf,
Given amount of people on food stamps, number of states with “asset exclusion” requirements, record low unemployment rate,….quite a bit.
Is that borne out my facts, or is this just your gut impression that someone’s getting more than you get?
jjf,
Common sense. 40 million Americans are not making that many bad choices.
In this economy, If you are a family of 4, making under 32K, with no assets…you are making some really collossal bad choices.
What is happening is: with asset exclusion, many keep there income down below that to qualify… by maximizing 401 K’s, IRA’s, etc.
This has really become subsidy to middle class with assests.
Even NPR admits it in their reporting:
(Why are you in typical liberal denial?)
https://www.npr.org/2019/07/23/744451246/3-million-could-lose-food-stamp-benefits-under-trump-administration-proposal
Ah, I forget, there’s that Bible passage that says “help the poor and visit those in jail, unless they’ve been making bad choices.”
Jjf,
Yes, help those in need with a cheerful, giving, heart.
Not tax they neighbor, charge a bureaucratic fee and wash your hands of responsibility because the government takes care of it through food stamps.
Private charity also does not enable those that insist on their bad life choices. Enabling can be damaging to drug addicts, alcoholics, and other addictions. Sometimes you help by speaking and doing truth in love. Government SNAP is incapable of that.
I bet there’s a Bible quote that explains why it’s OK to tax everyone for war and not food for the poor or have a mutual health care assurance.
And I bet there’s a Bible quote that says that private charity should have strings attached, like join my church or stop the behaviors.
Which other government programs are antithetical to the Bible? Can you think of any, and what do you do about it?
jjf,
Romans 12: 4-8.
4″ For just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5 so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6 We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your[a]faith; 7 if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; 8 if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead,[b] do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully.”
_____________
I am failing to see how mandate by the IRS tax code, which includes words like, “fine”, “penalty”, and “imprisonment” is “cheerful giving” as Christ instructed? It you have to threaten your neighbor with “fine”, “imprisonment”, or “penalty” to give his “fair share”, then you both reject the Gospel grace of giving cheerfully from the heart.
Aside from the issue, the more you tax, the less ability the believer has to give cheerfully from the heart to the poor.
Of course charity should have strings attached! You do not keep feeding a drug fueled, abusive husband that continues to beat his wife and kids! Feeeding such unrepentant evil is a sin. You demand true repentance if the abuser requires food ongoing. Government has a huge problem with this type of awful enablement.
You DON”T conduct charity in a way which hurts people, especially their soul, in the long term!
jjf,
Romans 12: 4-8.
4 For just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5 so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6 We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your faith; 7 if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; 8 if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully.”
_____________
I am failing to see how mandate by the IRS tax code, which includes words like, “fine”, “penalty”, and “imprisonment” is “cheerful giving” as Christ instructed? It you have to threaten your neighbor with “fine”, “imprisonment”, or “penalty” to give his “fair share”, then you both reject the Gospel grace of giving cheerfully from the heart.
Aside from the issue, the more you tax, the less ability the believer has to give cheerfully from the heart to the poor.
Of course charity should have strings attached! You do not keep feeding a drug fueled, abusive husband that continues to beat his wife and kids! Feeeding such unrepentant evil is a sin. You demand true repentance if the abuser requires food ongoing. Government has a huge problem with this type of awful enablement.
You DON”T conduct charity in a way which hurts people, especially their soul, in the long term!
Or as some Christians and others put it, we don’t feed people because they are worthy. We feed them because they are hungry.
You like worrying whether they’re worthy, don’t you?
So where’s the quote that says it’s OK to tax for war and not food?
jjf,
Feeding people because they are hungry is fine. Feeding people so they can free up rersources for their drug habit is not fine.
If your “help” means you are helping them committ more unrepentant evil, you need to make a rational decision to speak truth in love to the person to steer the from their open, willful, evil. If in the end, the recipient is bent on continuing their open evil, it is foolishness to help them in their pursuit of open evil.
Jesus said to repent and “go and sin no more”.
It is sin if you are helping others do evil. Simple discernment for good and evil is needed.
I am willing to feed anyone that is hungry, but if they promise me to get off drugs in process, then come to me again I will help them again, but if they appear unrepentant in drug use, I have a decision to make if I help a third time. Helping someone to destruction is not helping at all.
Why else do we have such a breakdown of black family, and drug use problems in urban areas? We are throwing welfare at those who are self destructive without any distinction between good and evil.
I have a very good friend in the Health Department, and another that works on the SNAP program. I’m going to ask where in their eligibility standards this is required, “Feeding people so they can free up rersources for their drug habit is not fine.”
And isn’t lying a sin in your cult? Isn’t it about time to repent?
And why the racist comment? Drug problems know no color barrier, just look at WV, and rural parts of WI.
Nord,
Don’t be absurd. The problem is: Food Stamps are handed out without regard to the reasonable determination if the aide will free up income, for a drug abuser, to do more drugs….that is the problem.
It allows the abuser to be more destructive to themsleves and others.
Christian charity makes reasonable judgement long term on these issues. We encourage them toward Jesus, which means repenting of their sin.
The government essentially says in action “here is money, keep on sinning in your self destruction.”
I know, Le Roi – Kevin won’t explain what he means by “black community” either.
So Kevin, if there’s some difference between blacks and everyone else, where does it come from?
Maybe Kevin just takes a libertarian approach, in that if you can afford your drug habit, he looks the other way and doesn’t worry about your sin as much as opposed to if you were poor or not white.
So you just made this up? “Feeding people so they can free up rersources for their drug habit is not fine.”
Jjf,
Marriage rate in black community was 75% before Democrat war on poverty, it is now less than 25 % today? Why? There is policy incentive to not get married.
Liberals have destroyed the black family.
So I have no problem clarifying what I meant. Liberal evil is awful…and racist.
Nord,
We all know a large chunk of America has drug addiction problems. Many of those with addictions get food stamps. If one gets free food, that frees income up that would have been spent on food for drugs, thus fueling the addiction.
Let those of us with a moral conscience wrestle with the adult questions. You don’t give drug addicts unfettered resources long term…any 2 year old understands that…unless you do not care?
Jjf,
If you can afford your drug habit and support yourself, and an unbeliever, I will say you are stupid and turn you in if I witness what you are doing is illegal.
If you are a believer, I will start Matthew 18 correction toward your unrepentant sin.
I don’t expect you to understand since tolerance of sin and bad behavior is expected in liberal lexicon.
How do “we” know all this? Quantify “large chunk”. I don’t make decisions based on someone elses opinion. Give us some data. And let me know when you acquire some morality and a conscience.
It must be that Democrat war on poverty that arrests blacks at four times the rate of whites when it comes to pot. It doesn’t have anything to do with the police or the hard-on-crime crew-cut types or racism. It’s those all-powerful ever-weak Democrats!
Jjf,
So you want more tolerance of bad behavior? Give people free resources to make their bad choices worse?
Nord,
Not surprised you ignore the problem of abuse and drug abuse in our society. You want government to do it so you feel no connection to charity from the heart.
k:
Once again you make assumptions based on your ideology and ignorance rather than fact or common sense. I have never, ever used drugs, and have been active in anti-drug promotions and programs in our community for years. You are truly a small minded and mean spirited person. Shame on you.
Nord,
As an anti-drug advocate, you should be first to understand…you do not subsidize drug users long term…it leads to substantial harm.
Or is your anti-drug advocacy merely superficial?
k:
Show us where in any policy federal, state, local, that any agency subsidizes drug use. Thanks.
No apology for the false accusations?
A: This man is hungry.
K: Maybe he’s on drugs. Let’s not feed him.
JJf,
You do not have that quite right. You are welcome to bible study on this.
If a man is hungry you feed him. Not just food, but you also feed his spirit.
If he eventually refuses to take food for the spirit because of ongoing, unrepentant sin…do you keep aiding someone dedicated to travel the path of selfish, evil ends, which hurts them or others?
That would make you both a bad human being and a bad Christian.
Feeding the hungry is also about feeding the spirit. They both go hand in hand. Feeding the spirit means the start of a new life in Christ and shedding all unrepentant sin, a desire to live a thankful life in gratitude for salvation.
There is a difference toward “encouragement” in spiritual nourishment and “enabling” selfish, sinful, behavior.
Feeding the poor is also about feeding the spirit.
Unbelievers miss the important part. Food stamps miss the important part.
Oh, I get it. If you stop feeding them, they die. They didn’t fix their sin fast enough after you ever-so-politely pointed it out to them! They had no idea!
How quickly do you fix your sins?
jjf,
If one refuses the spiritual feeding of the Holy Spirit, that is the eventual consequence…death, apart from Christ.
You cannot force someone to take spiritual nourishment if they do not want it….especially if they are more interested in continuing their open, unrepentant, sin.
It is not about coming to the faith and screwing up, we all do that. The willingness to repent is important. Those refusing the help on both levels, make the decision for themselves. It is never our decision, but the decision of the one who is in need to refuse the help.
I am simply saying it is foolish to feed the physical body, but fail/neglect to feed the spirit. Godless unbelievers have a difficult time grasping that.
Again, how quickly do you fix your sins?
If I was smoking dope but jobless and hungry, how many times should you feed me before you cut me off if I don’t stop smoking?
Can you imagine helping people without requiring them to adhere to the fine details of your religion?
jjf,
Taking your example. Homeless, hungry, dope smoking on the street.
I would feed and evangelize. Ask him if he is willing to straigten out his life with a job, repentance on drug use, find a place for him to live if serious.
If they refuse to do basics…like a job or not interested in living anywhere but the street…what is it do you expect to do for him?
If they say, I am willing to do that…even if they are lying, I would help as long as they show honest progress. If they are still in the same state weeks later with no “fruit in action”, how long do you help forward his wayward lifestyle?
At some point, it becomes “enabling” bad behavior. the line between “helping” and “enabling” is a personal, prayewrful decision.
Government makes no such careful deliberation. Government enables bad behavior until it kills some people.
“Government enables bad behavior until it kills some people”.
And the past administration in Madison, and the current one in the WH are enabling environmental degradation and pollution of all sorts by weakening regulations and cutting enforcement. Perhaps you would condemn that as well?
Nord,
If you provide an example, I just may.
However, my experience with environmental regulation is: it becomes an unfair burden on poor and middle class for no benefit at all. I have compassion for poor and middle class to have affordable clean water.
Drinking water quality in Kewaunee and LaCrosse counties. Drinking water quantity in the Central Sands region of the state. Air quality along L. Michigan.
Rollback of federal air and water quality standards.
Does somebody have to die before you have any compassion?
Not very specific. Still sounding doomsday religion I see.
I’m mainly concerned with all the reckless poop dumping MMSD does into the lack. They constantly violate clean water standards the rest of us are held to.
Or to look at it another way, if the drug user doesn’t stop using drugs just because you asked them, maybe you aren’t as good at this task as you think you are.
And meanwhile, as Jesus would say, they’re still hungry or homeless or in jail, and you should take care of them.
Jjf,
I’ll play. Where does Jesus say that?
He does say to practice the golden rule and love. However, your love must be sincere. Hate evil, cling to what is good.
If you practice insincere love then your position is sound.
Christ commands our love to be sincere. We should not continuously help unrepentant evil to continue in unrepentance. We should do our best to help the person to repentance, and if they reject the Gospel, shake the dust from our feet and move on in sincere love to evangelize to others.
I usually don’t shake dust from my feet until the person curses me to leave them alone. Despite both of you being unyielding in unbelief, I still have hope.
Where does Jesus say you should feed the hungry and console those in jail? It’s a mystery.
Again, how do you know if the reason the drug user didn’t stop is because you were bad at your job? How do you know that feeding them isn’t helping them to stop using the drug you want them to stop using?
k:
Wrong, I was quite specific. You, on the other hand, avoided the issue.
Jjf,
You suffer from a godless unbeliever perspective.
If you feed someone unwilling to take food for his soul. What have you gained, other than helping someone to path of eternal destruction? What kind of monster would make that path comfortable for sinners to keep on taking? Only demons and Satan himself. At some point, a feeling of gratitude should take place with recipient …but if they are only concerned with their selfish evil…you have to make a decision to stop helping until they straighten out.
I had to do that recently with recovering drug addict/alcoholic I gave a job to. He relapsed twice, missed work. I cut him a break both times. Then he got arrested for felony eluding, OWI, driving without a license, and I had to cut my help off because he was just a selfish user…even his mother said I showed him way too much compassion. (I did too much liberal enablement…I’m a compassionate guy…I want to believe people can change from their sin.)
Told him when he gets dried out and certified for 6 months under court supervision, I will consider giving him his job back.
Jesus said to “go and sin no more” in keeping with repentance. So far, he seems unrepentant and unwilling to part from his ongoing open sin.
You would just keep helping this guy break the law with his habit that has power over him?
“go and sin no more”
Yet you continue to bear false witness..
Kevin, I think you overestimate your ability to tell sinners they’re sinning and that they should stop and that this ability actually works.
Clearly it doesn’t, yet you think it should. I think they call this magical thinking.
Ask Dad29. There’s centuries of people writing about how to take care of the poor.