This is nuts. Even the BBC reporter has some very valid questions:
There are plenty of reasonable, sensitive questions arising from the Kavanaugh/Ford story.
First and most important, is the alleged incident true? Do the therapists’ notes, which have some flaws, count as corroboration?
If the incident is true, to what extent does it have a relevant bearing on the judge’s character today, 36 years later?
If no other women come forward with similar accusations, should it be dismissed as the egregious but one-off failing of a teenager?
If it’s not true, why was it raised it now and what impact should it have on both the judge and his accuser?
All of these questions are open for debate in a sensible, thoughtful way. I for one don’t have clear answers on any of them.
In the end, this is just going to be a he said/she said about something that happened over 30 years ago. People who don’t want Kavanaugh confirmed are going to insist that the accusation is true. Reasonable people will wonder why this is only coming up now. None of it has anything to do with the character of the man in 2018 or his lengthy tenure as a lawyer and judge.
Take the vote.
Reasonable people will NOT wonder why this is only coming up now. How many old and LEGIT complaints have we seen resurface over the past few years. And she at least has some papertrail to back her up.
The crux of the question is whether something that was done at age 17 is relevant to today? Hmmm. I don’t know, attempted rape kinda sounds like a big deal to me.
Make the assumption that this is totally true, do you STILL think that he should be appointed?
Reasonable people would wonder what the rush is to confirm. Reasonable people would say wait until after the midterms to confirm. Reasonable people would let the electorate decide who votes for confirmation. Reasonable people would like to see the O’Connell Rule applied.
And honestly the term “baseless” is what is bothering me.
1. She took a voluntary poly-graph test. (while not 100% accurate poly-graphs are a good place to start)
2. She has therapy paperwork to back up her claims. And people want to call them into question because the therapist made a mistake on a number.
3. She has agreed to testify. Putting herself out in the open for the world to judge her. Takes some guts.
This guy is looking at a LIFETIME appointment. I think that looking back at his lifetime isn’t too much to ask.
Democrats elected an accused serial rapist to the White House not once, but twice. They tied themselves in knots rationalizing away any concerns about the leader of their party face-banging interns in the Oval Office bathroom and splattering dresses with Presidential DNA while on the taxpayer’s dime. We were told it simply did not matter.
The retribution against the accusers was directed from the First Lady’s office and we were told that that didn’t matter either. The very same First Lady was nominated to lead the party in 2016. Apparently, Democrats have formally approved of this type of behavior for 25+ years.
Given the recent history of Democrats, surely you can see why we might be more than a bit skeptical of their newfound morality concerning the treatment of women.
Merlin, Monica and Bill were both consenting adults. I don’t care WTF they did. Now, you want to get into discussions about some of Bill’s history, fine. But best be ready to bring up the current President’s accusations as well. No party is immune to this garbage. There was a time when men could get away with so much more garbage, and that time is ending. And for some, as they say, “the chickens are coming home to roost.”
It is a different time NOW. Lets all be better than we WERE. There are different generations voting and supporting now.
Oh, and FYI. Politico just did a little examination of the 65 women on that Kavanaugh document. Most didn’t know what they were actually signing and apparently only 2 out of a dozen spoken with are confident on sticking with that statement that was released.
Why should we “assume” that this woman is telling the truth? There are plenty of indicators that she is not–that, in fact, she’s assembling some sort of memory of an event (when she was drunk as a skunk) and cannot remember who invited her, where it was held, and how she got there. She HAD to have been in a car for that 15-mile ride. So maybe she’s assembling the whole thing, not just parts.
Oh and by the way: why should we “assume” that her shrink made an error about the number?
There are credible disinterested parties who also question whether she would have been at any event with GPrep boys; that wasn’t the crowd that her high-school people would have run with.
No one else remembers anything like that happening, either male or female. Not in high school, college, law school, or during any time afterward.
And there’s not even a pubic hair, nor can of Coke.
oh johnv,
How easily you forget Paula Jones, Gennifer Flowers, and Juanita Broderick. Bill Clinton did far worse than anything asserted here, and all we heard from pervert burying liberals that there is “nothing to see here”, “it’s a private matter”, and that the victims were “making it up”.
Amazing how something from 30+ years ago is a big deal when it comes to an assertion of sexual impropriety against non-liberals.
Liberals are total hypocrites on sexual perversion. They protect their own to far worse lengths.
The standard has been lowered by liberals, and even if this ridiculous allegation is true, which I seriously doubt, we should just ignore it like we did for Bill Clinton.
Let’s send Hillary in to give her the Clinton treatment.
Why don’t women come forward ? Because of the type
Of criticism on this page by men . Drunk men get a pass,
While drunk women deserve what they get .
As mentioned earlier , a seat was held up for 14 months by the very folks who now want to adhere to a timeline they set .
The leader of the free world today said there should be a
Full examination of the complaint .
Those of you who follow him in lockstep out to sit on your hands
And let that process play out .
If an allegation about sexual assault is true, it should be ignored.
WOW!!!
Last I looked, neither Bill nor Hillary have been nominated for the SC. If they have, please pass on the documentation.
Latest Pants on Fire from k: “Liberals are total hypocrites on sexual perversion”.
Pat,
First off this allegation is not true because their are no other complaining women like a Clinton, Weiner, Kennedy, or Weinstein.
If it is one thing sicko liberal perverts have demonstrated: perversion is ongoing, perpetual, predator behavior. We have none of that here. In fact, we have many women on record saying he was always a gentleman.
If this allegation is true, it is hardly getting in a fuss about given the pass liberal perversion has got. If it is a disqualifying offense, I want all liberal perverts cleaned out of Congress as well.
At this time, the REPUBLICAN-LED Judiciary committee intends to hear everything the accuser has to say. She has plenty of time to talk to them before Thursday. Air travel and all that….
If he’d been convicted of it when he was a teen, and still landed where he is today, should they confirm him?
jonnyv
Are you seriously trying to sell the notion that 65 women signed a document they were either too stupid to understand or were duped into signing? That’s rather disgusting, even for Politico. Two seconds of consideration is enough to tell you that’s highly improbable. Try finding 65 women too stupid to understand something… or anything.
I love it, liberals are for feminists until the women say nice things about a conservative family man!
This is the total moral bankruptcy of liberalism on display!
Liberals are celebrating smearing of women who have nice things to say about a good conservative family man.
Part of the total liberal war on women!
“First off this allegation is not true”. Just because no one else complained doesn’t make you correct.
Nord,
Given 65 other women vouch for his character, in a “he said/she said” scenario, usual perverts are like clinton, they keep on doing it.
There has to be limits on how far stuff like this can be dredged without proof, and without sufficient witnesses and pattern of behavior.
Otherwise any man is subject to baseless accusations by evil, dark, political forces meant on wrecking a good family man over the desparation to keep killing babies.
“As I said earlier, anyone who comes forward as Dr. Ford has done deserves to be heard. My staff has reached out to Dr. Ford to hear her account, and they held a follow-up call with Judge Kavanaugh this afternoon.
Seems Chuck Grassley disagrees with you.
Given that the majority of those 65 women now say that they didn’t know what they were signing, the “65” number becomes irrelevant.
If an allegation about sexual assault is true, it should be ignored. Anyway this allegation is not true because there are no other complaining women. Everyone knows you need more than one woman to complain about a sexual assault otherwise it’s not to be believed.
Plus what does Kavanaugh have to gain by lying about this so called incident, compared to what the liberal drunken skank has to gain?
Right??
Pat,
Then every liberal perv in Congress needs to be held to this strict standard….yeah…that is not going to happen.
So I yawn at liberal double standard disgust.
Whether or not Bill Clinton is a sexual predator is not relevant to a discussion about Brett Kavanaugh’s nomination.
Ford has come forward with credible accusations that need to be answered, especially given Kavanaugh position as a mentor of Chief Judge Alex Kozinski; who was removed from the bench for sexual assault.
Moreover it appears there are at least a half a dozen willing to come forward, if Grassley and Feinstein have the courage to let them speak. I apprehend it is even possible that they may have some evidence beyond word of mouth that may help substantiated their claims.
Kevin,
You’re the so called conservative who says that if an allegation about sexual assault is true, it should be ignored, and allegations about assaults are not to believed if there are no other complaining women.
The letter was no surprise to the WH . The stagecraft in having
His girls basketball team at the hearing to support him was a
Way to dare the Dems to come after him .
So..they did .
If you don’t think the WH is worried , he wouldn’t have spent 9 hours
There today or hired a female attorney ( David Gregory’s wife)
I can’t wait to see GOP Senators try to tear her apart as they most certainly
Try to do .
Be careful what you wish for . Women know this is just another guy
Who wants to tell them what He thinks they should do with their body .
And a drunken 17 year old can do some pretty horrendous things
And still be a great family man later in life . Some could end up judges and others can run for Senator and both can have supporters say that they never could have done it .
The truth is , no one knows what happened that night .
But this nomination was safe last week and now it’s in trouble .
Another half dozen, eh? None can be available until next February, of course.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/35956/how-dianne-feinsteins-antics-over-kavanaugh-sexual-ben-shapiro?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro
Keith Ellison recently had a 911 call surface that he BEATS and abuses his girlfriend….liberals silent on this Muslim woman beater.
His actions are far worse, and provable, yet nothing from these double standard liberals.
When Keith Ellison is gone, I’ll take this fairly innocuous and unprovable allegation somewhat seriously.
The “only 2 women stand by the letter” thing is a lie. The others are not taking calls from the press, so the press made up the story that they backed away.
Gee. The press makes up stories. Here’s my shocked face.
In Islamic law, proving this sort of sexual assault would require four male witnesses, and false accusations can be punished as well. Anyone here think that would be the right approach? Some have said we need to let religion be free to speak in the public sphere as well as the courtroom.
As for making up stories, what do you think of Kleefisch’s unsupported claim that her opponent kneeled for the Anthem? Did she bear false witness?
Jjf,
I could give a rip about Islamic Law.
Here is what Democrats really do to victims of Provable assault:
Keith Ellison domestic violence accuser says Democratic party doesn’t believe her story
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/09/18/keith-ellison-domestic-violence-accuser-says-democratic-party-doesnt-believe-her-story.html
Liberals are a bunch of woman abusing hypocrites!
Where is Diane Feinstein on this poor Ellison victim in the here and now?????
Crickets.
Liberals make me sick.
Go ahead, investigate Ellison. Who do you think should do it?
Don’t give a rip about Islam? So what does the Bible say about assault? Fifty shekels and she’s your wife, right?
I remember Republican’s ( including the 2 key women senators who
Are the swing votes in the nomination said Al Franken needed
To resign over lesser claims .
The same folks ignored concerns about the candidate for Senate
With multiple claims of interactions with underage girls .
They ceded the moral high ground long ago .
When you are compiaining about the process and the need for speed ( hilarious Coming from a party who kept a seat open for 10
Months) you’re losing the argument .
According to a self professed conservative, morality doesn’t matter. No one is asking for a saint. It’s all about moving the ball down the field.
Jjf,
That is Old Testament ceremonial and civil Law. That law no longer applies to those living under New Testament grace. Under New Testament grace husbands are to love their wives as “Christ loved the church” and gave himself up for her. That is a high standard for treatment of women!
Happy to clear that up for you. Common mistake when unbelievers try and interpret the Bible void of the Holy Spirit.
Mark,
I ripped Roy Moore for not getting out of the race.
However, we have to admit, a woman beater is far worse, than any allegations against Moore, which were never substantiated. He, rightly, lost!
So are you calling for Keith Ellison to step down? Or is Islam before woman in liberal intersectional politics these days?
Pat,
Morality should matter when it comes to illegal things, like woman beating, especially when it is substantiated.
When it comes to consensual sex outside of marriage, we have decided as a country to ignore that, thanks to liberal perversion.
I still fail to see the furor from liberals over Ellison, which is substantiated.
Kevin,
But in the long run, the only thing that really matters is moving the ball down the field. Right?
There was a PICTURE of Franken grabbing the boobs of his victim. Notice the difference?
Kevin, so we’re going to go with the amputations of Matthew 5:29? Should we work those into today’s law?
Dad29, don’t get too excited… the picture exists, of course, but it doesn’t show that he actually touched her. There’s a shadow from his hands. Of course it was poor behavior. You approve of his resignation because of this? You don’t think the same of Trump’s bragging of grabbing?
Thanks JJF
Kev, if Ellison did what he is accused of he absolutely should resign .
I acknowledge your rejection of Moore . You were a Portrait in Courage in a sea of callow cowards .
Back to the subject , Kavanaugh’s buddy doesn’t remember the incident but
Has a character named Kavanaugh in one of two books he wrote about being blackout drunk during his prep school years .
He now doesn’t want to testify to the committee . He could negate completely
The woman’s testimony , yet refuses to do so ?
And today a spokesperson for Kavanaugh said it could have been “horse play “
Add in the judges quote about what happened at prep school stays at prep school.
If the Judge wasn’t at the party , journalists will find that out .
If he was and his buddy was as and the buddy won’t testify , what do you make of that ?
Why would unbelievers ( like me ) even attempt to interpret the Bible .
We think it all magical thinking from a time when man knew little of science
And already had invented 10,000 other God’s that they were certain spoke
To them directly .
There is some nice prose in it and taking the work as fiction could be studied
As literature of a period when man explained the unexplainable with more
Unexplainable .
My favorite God was Thor after I got into Marvel Comics as a kid .
But after I saw Wonder Woman ( the Movie ) , she became my #1
To each his own ( God )
Jjf,
Matthew 5:29 underlies the seriousness on ongoing, willful sin. It is a warning to believers not to let yourself be swept into sin, that it’s better to cut off body parts then to have even part of your soul or body to be thrown into hell because of sin.
If a believer feels his soul is imperiled, he should pray and resist the sin. Again, this would be an unbeliever’s perspective that the struggle against sin requires murilation. This is a stern warning of just how serious unforgiven sin is.
Unbelievers can and do ignore the seriousness of sin. We see that in Trump. Matthew 5:29 cannot be enforced on those outside grace of Jesus. Only those inside the grace of Jesus understand Matthew 5:29 and the seriousness of sin. If someone inside the kingdom of Jesus grace is living in open sin, ignoring its seriousness under Matthew 5:29, Christians are instructed to correct under Matthew 18.
So who corrected Obama on his toss of Jesus design for marriage and his ignoring of Matthew 5:29 and all those he led to hell by embracing a sin as normal?
I don’t think any unbelievers corrected him over Matthew 5:29.
Pat,
Unless you run the ball toward evil.
Looks like 24 classmates of Ford have written a letter attesting to her honesty and integrity. Let the process play out.
Nord,
Looks like even she does not have her story straight:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/09/18/feinstein-blames-gop-after-kavanaugh-accuser-stays-mum-admits-cant-say-everythings-truthful.html
Looks like the process is a witch hunt. The country should apologize for this cry wolf politically motivated nonsense.
Let’s get back to real issues: gettng rid of girlfriend beating Ketih Ellison.
k:
Poor deflection, Ellison isn’t the SC nominee. Let the voters get rid of him.
And do you really believe fox is a credible source?
“bureau would require explicit instructions from the White House to conduct any additional probe”.
Like that’s going to happen.
Nord,
See, you don’t want me to call me liberal, but you make those kind of comments about the excellent reporting of Fox News.
This is coming from a guy that literally thought NPR was committing fake news the other day about problems on ground with PR disaster relief!
You denied the problem, blamed Trump, then someone posted NPR story about the problems with local government management of disaster relief, then without apology for your dishanoesty, you made excuses for the problem your previously denied using the NPR story! How left biased does the news media have to be for you?
Mark,
I appreciate that you remember I ripped Roy Moore and demanded him to get out.
In that case, the allegations were specific, credible, and multiple.
Much like leftist perverts, like Clinton, Weiner, etc, actual sexual predators keep doing it over and over again. That is why Moore was on my hit list, he had that obvious Clinton-like stink on him all the way around.
The left is unhinged on this…
“Washington state Sen. Patty Murray, the No. 3 Democrat in the Senate, told reporters that an FBI investigation is necessary to ensure a full and impartial assessment of the accusations.”
The number 3 democrat in the Senate thinks that the FBI should be involved in a possible tryst between a 17 year old and a 15 year old that may or may not have happened 36ish years ago. How in the fuck was this tool voted into office?
k:
You are making stuff up again. Those Silly Shorts on too tight?
Nord,
Now you need to apologize twice for dishonesty:
http://www.bootsandsabers.com/2018/09/12/government-failed-to-distribute-water-after-hurricane/
On Franken:
Since I originally wrote this column, a number of other women have come forward to accuse Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) of sexual harassment. As of this update, eleven Democratic senators have called on Franken to resign.–WaPo Alyssa Rosenberg 11/2017
Eleven DEMOCRATS told him to get out.
So ‘shadow boob-grab’ wasn’t the only incident in Franken’s entire life, eh?
Compare/Contrast. QED.
Julia Dreyfus was not in HS at the same time as the psycho Ford. Oh, well.
I’ll sign a letter testifying to Kavanaugh’s probity. I was in high school once, sometime, within 3,000 miles of D.C., too!!
k:
So the lack of drivers and fuel, and impassible roads a week after the storm was the fault of godless marxists? Since you have all the answers to every situation, why didn’t you down there to crack the whip and get it done?
>So the lack of drivers and fuel, and impassible roads a week after the storm was the fault of godless marxists?
No LeRoy, it was obviously the fault of the Senate not acting on the statehood votes. Duh!
>Since you have all the answers to every situation, why didn’t you down there to crack the whip and get it done?
You get a hard-on anytime Kevin writes words here and yet you’re trying to call him out for not taking action? You’re a real troll-hard dude. Really being effective with your target audience too, as you can see most of the regulars here are really ganging up on Kevin and Owen! Heh
j:
Irony escapes you as well, eh?
Is there any other Wisconsin conservative blog beyond B&S, Jason?
>Is there any other Wisconsin conservative blog beyond B&S, Jason?
Do you think I know or care? Do you own research, dummy.
Nord,
So that is a “no” on apology for being caught on your dishonesty?
You denied the problem even existed, now chastise me for not fixing a non-existent problem, caused by your liberal Marxist darlings?
You are a real piece flatuance, you stink up the joint with no substance.
Correct, no apology. Learned that from you and t-rump. But I wasn’t dishonest, just pointed out the fallacy of your claim.
And name calling doesn’t enhance your credibility. Did you learn that from your idol?
Nobody cares, Nazi. Take the fat kid diddler with you and leave.
Maybe there should be an expose on the latest from Ed Whelen, eh?
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/9/21/17886430/brett-kavanaugh-news-ed-whelan-trump
Nord,
You want to not be a liberal, but then you post that ridiculous liberal link?
You act and smell liberal.
Just be honest and admit what you are.
Do you deny Whelen did what he apologized for? It must be tough living in that noggin of yours?
Nord,
You have become part of the disgusting, awful, liberal smear brigade against this fine nominee.
If you oppose this nominee, you are liberal by default.
k:
So if being opposed to sexual assault makes me a liberal, I’m good with that. But that puts you in a pretty tenuous position as hypocrite in chief.
Why not condemn Whelen as well, or do you agree to baseless smear campaigns (note: Whelen already admitted he made it all up)?
And why not let the investigation reach a conclusion. If the alleged assault never happened, you prevail. If it turns out to have happened, Kavanaugh should excuse himself. What are you afraid of?
Nord,
Who said they were for sexual assault?
I’m trying to figure out why Whelen’s actions get, in any way, imputed to Brett Kavanaugh?
That is the ridiculous part here, and shame on you for posting that article.
k:
You.
Whelen posted the lie in defense of Kavanaugh.
Ah, not a chance. I didn’t spread that lie about an innocent person, Whelen did.
Nord,
How does that get imputed to Kavanaugh like your disgusting article implies?
k:
See above. The answer is self-evident if you read it. Your confirmation bias is showing.
If the allegations against Kavanaugh aren’t true, why not hear Ford out? Or are you afraid the claim is true? Or don’t you really care if our SC nominee committed sexual assault?
Nord,
You are no better than Joy Behar on this.
I find your imputation of blaming Kavanaugh for something this nobody said (someone I never heard of before you used it to smear) very disgusting.
Grassley is bending over backwards to “hear her out”. So what is your problem? Even if the entire allegation is true, which it is not…under the Clinton perversion standard “it’s a private matter” he should be confirmed anyway.
Keith Ellison just beat his woman to a bloody pulp this year and we get nothing from Democrats. The difference: Kavanaugh stands convicted of being conservative. Ellison can get away with beating his woman because he is liberal.
This is why liberals disgust me to no end.
>See above. The answer is self-evident if you read it.
Actually, there is only the author’s suspicions of collusion between Whelen and Kavanaugh… which means that your confirmation bias is showing.
Some guy tweeted something and you think the FBI should investigate? And yet, your liberal partner in crime – jjf thinks it’s perfectly fine for some liberal adult to send private messages to the minor child of a political opponent. Bias and Hypocrisy are on full display here for everyone to see.
Nort gags: “ See above. The answer is self-evident if you read it. “
To expand on Jason’s comment, Nortumous believes and drools over the leftist Vox’s speculation but call’s Whelen a liar for his speculation.
Your typical two-faced liberal on parade.
k:
Clinton and Ellison aren’t SC nominees. That is the discussion of the moment. And the double standard you invoke adds nothing to the veracity of the claim you make, “Even if the entire allegation is true, which it is not”. Perhaps you should testify at the hearing as well, seeing as you have insider information.
If being in favor of letting all sides be heard, and letting the process play out disgusts you, well then you will have to live with it.
Nord,
You are not in favor of process, you are in favor of character Assasination.
What does it matter anyway? We did not get rid of Ellison, Kennedy, or Clinton for far worse, even if there is some truth to the allegation there is no way it should prevent confirmation, based on the Clinton standard.
Unless you think conservatives deserve to be treated more harsh than liberals on this topic. In that case, that means you support convicting someone based on his conservatism.
That is what is criminal here.
k:
Wrong again. You call the Ford claim character assassination, yet refuse to do the same for Whelens admitted lie. A little cg dis in the noggin, eh?
I’ll repeat, now pay attention: Those folks aren’t SC nominees.
Not at all. I’m in favor of letting all the facts be presented.
Which criminal activity are you referring to?
Nord,
I don’t give a rip about Whelen. He is a nobody dredged up by a liberal smear site you linked to.
The issue here is: you linking to a liberal smear site that is bearing false witness against Kavanaugh over something Whelen said.
That is what I find totally disgusting.
k:
No Whelen isn’t a “nobody”.
No false witness involved (unless you have your own personal definition). Whelen did it, and later admitted he did. How is that false? Or do you have a personal definition for that word as well?
I’m sure you find all sorts of things disgusting, the truth being among them.
Carry on.
What Whelen says has nothing to do with Kavanaugh.
You linked to an article that blamed Kavanaugh for Whelen’s comments.
That you have not apologized for….your smear.
Well, it certainly has nothing to do with the Packers problems.
Nowhere did the article blame Kavanaugh.
I presented facts: Whelen did it it and apologized for doing it. Do you deny those facts?
Once again, you rely on ideology rather than evidence.
Did you read the headline?
and sub headline?\
It was ridiculous, fraudulent and awful.
Why you want to associate yourself with such things is beyond me.
k:
I’m sorry, but there is nothing I can do to help you comprehend. There are probably adult education classes at your local Tech school or two year campus that could help. Counseling perhaps as well.
Unless you have a personal definition of “fraudulent” you are flat out wrong. Whelen admits he did it. Can you deny that?
Nord,
Let’s just agree you are a walking smear machine.
Nope, it wasn’t me that did any smear campaign. You guys are doing a fine job without my help.