Boots & Sabers

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1433, 08 May 22

Pro-Abortion Violence Erupts in Madison

Once again we see that it is the liberals who have such a strong propensity for violence when they don’t get their way. Antifa. BLM. Occupy Wall Street. Protests outside of justices’ homes. Attacking Senator Paul. The list goes on.

MADISON, Wis. — Madison police and the Fire Department are investigating a fire at an office building on the city’s north side that they said was arson.

Crews were called to the 2800 block of International Lane Sunday just after 6 a.m. and flames could be seen coming from the facility.

[…]

Officers and arson investigators have not determined the cause of the fire, but police confirmed at least one Molotov cocktail was thrown at the office during the incident.

Police confirmed that the office of Wisconsin Family Action was damaged in the incident. The group is a PAC that lobbies against abortion rights and gay marriage.

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1433, 08 May 2022

94 Comments

  1. Mar

    Liberals claim they peaceful but in reality, they are not. They are directly or indirectly responsible for violence.

  2. Randall Flagg

    Hmmm….sounds just like conservatives tactics:

    * January 6th
    * Abortion Clinic Fire Bombings and Shootings
    * Physically Attacking Health Officials Over Mask Mandates
    * Protesting at Judges homes

  3. Jason

    How dare anyone stop a liberal momma from vacuuming out their cooter?!!? Men have more rights than women. And what I did I see today? The looney Michigan AG on Chuck Todd suddenly telling the world “Politicians not belong in our doctor’s office’s”. I wonder if she was just as triggered and woke when ObamaCare was born.

  4. Jason

    Good old Randy Flunk is back at with nothing by annoying noise. Any one here could list of a dozen violent Left acts in the past dozen years… big fucking deal.

  5. Randall Flagg

    Awe you missed me Jason. How adorable.

    And I can list a dozen violent acts by the right, showing the left and the right have an equal propensity for violence…….

  6. Jason

    Like I said Big Fucking Deal. I missed you like Hunter Biden misses his genital herpes on the down days.

  7. dad29

    just like conservatives tactics:

    * January 6th

    No news reports of fire-bombs at Capitol in 1/6. Aside from that, a great deal remains to be learned about the characters involved in fomenting/leading that peaceful demonstration.

    Abortion Clinic Fire Bombings and Shootings

    I recall only ONE clinic shoot, actually not at the clinic but at a “doctor”‘s home. Maybe you could provide some links to all the others, and the fire-bombings, too.

    Protesting at Judges homes

    Searching on these terms: “conservatives protest judge’s decision at judge’s home” NOTHING came up in the first 100 results other than the illegal protests at SCOTUS homes this weekend. But I’m sure you have documentation of your claim.

  8. Jason

    Dad, I was going to remind flunky of certain malcontents that protested a former governors Parent’s house… But rembered that Randy Spunk is a prime partisan hack and decided not to waste any time.

  9. Randall Flagg
  10. Mar

    Randall can think of a dozen cases of conservative violence.
    I can think of many hundreds of liberal acts of violence.

  11. Randall Flagg

    I look forward to listing many hundreds to prove your claim Mar.

    Of course if you don’t, as the great Christopher Hitchens said, “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

  12. jonnyv

    If I was on the right, I would be SWEARING how this is clearly a false flag incident. Or maybe there were RIGHT WING people who infiltrated and did this. Man, I remember all those arguments on 1/6. So funny.

    Dad29, if you want a list of anti-abortion violence. Here is a place to start.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence#United_States

  13. Randall Flagg

    The right wing false flag theory is an interesting one jonnyv. if it was one it wouldn’t be the first one perpetrated by the right wing in Wisconsin (and carried forward without question by the right wing media) :

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/kyle-wood-assault-gay-republican-wisconsin_n_2044888

    https://isthmus.com/news/news/how-the-kyle-wood-hoax-went-viral-self-proclaimed-conservative-watchdogs-spurn-reporting-basics/
    (funny how those that cry the most about fake news love to distribute it:)

    or outside Wisconsin:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna27350530

  14. Randall Flagg

    If I was on the right, I would be SWEARING how this is clearly a false flag incident. Or maybe there were RIGHT WING people who infiltrated and did this.

    It could have been. The right has a history of doing that. For example, google Kyle Wood.

  15. dad29

    Well, that’s quite a list, JV. I will not accept PP’s allegations (bottom of the page) of additional strife, of course.

    The incident in Madistan was apparently the work of a Marxist bunch, not ‘traditional’ suburban-mommies-for-abortion.

    As to ‘hundreds’ of Lefty violence claims, perhaps El Flunko has heard of Portland, Seattle, Minneapolis, and Kenosha?

  16. Jason

    >It could have been. The right has a history of doing that. For example, google Kyle Wood.

    Kyle Wood is a false flag? He’s just a Jussie Smollett. Hardly a Right Wing false flag. You continue to disappoint Flunk, you don’t even know what a False Flag is, or how to apply it to your weak argument and jv’s infantile wet dreams.

  17. Tuerqas

    Every ideology has its violent fanatics, so finding incidences in a population of more than 330 million is not difficult in the least. So to me, it comes down to comparisons.
    Flagg and V seem to be comparing riots that caused more than 23 million in random damages (as of 2020) on over 100 buildings, at least 25 killed and hundreds wounded by a large group of people in Portland with an arson attack on a single building in Knoxville.
    They are comparing 55 million in damages and 17 people killed in Minneapolis with a single (literally) crazy person who killed 2 and wounded 5 in a single location.
    They are comparing mass riots that literally millions of liberals seem to agree with (and Democrats actively organized and supported) as acceptable ideological actions with singular incidents by individuals that Republicans all (publicly at least) denounced.
    Flagg and V, in my opinion, you do not compare favorably.

  18. Randall Flagg

    Jason, Jason, Jason…..

    You really should look up terms you don’t understand. From Merriam Webster’s dictionary:

    False Flag: : a hostile or harmful action (such as an attack) that is designed to look like it was perpetrated by someone other than the person or group responsible for it

    This is clearly what Kyle Wood did.

    dad29:

    Name calling aside (such a juvenile tactic by the right wing by the way ) I have heard of those. Here are some examples of right wing violence there also:

    * https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/washington/articles/2022-01-31/2-from-right-wing-group-charged-in-2021-portland-clash
    * https://www.koin.com/news/protests/right-wing-protester-alan-swinney-arrested-on-12-charges-proud-boys/
    * https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/23/texas-boogaloo-boi-minneapolis-police-building-george-floyd
    * https://www.mprnews.org/story/2021/09/30/texas-man-24-admits-shooting-at-minneapolis-police-station-during-riot
    * https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/07/28/896515022/minneapolis-police-reportedly-identify-viral-umbrella-man-as-white-supremacist
    * https://www.weau.com/2020/09/04/feds-arrest-2-men-in-alleged-kenosha-looting-and-shooting-plot/

    I look forward to you (or Mar) proving hundreds of acts of lefty violence or retracing the claim.

  19. Randall Flagg

    Tuerqas:

    Well if you want to move the goalposts (I’m assuming you know what that means because you seem much more intelligent than most of the right wing posters here) lets do that. We could start with the Oklahoma City bombing which killed 168 people including 19 children.

  20. Jason

    Randy Funk, 168 people including 19 children yet according to the CDC in 2019, 629,898 legal induced abortions were reported to CDC from 49 reporting areas. You’re still not comparing favorably. Yikes.

  21. jonnyv

    And of those 629K, 42% were nonsurgical, Basically “flushing” out the uterus. Is this what they want stopped as well? These are done before 9 weeks. How about the Plan B (morning after) pill? Make it a felony to HAVE an abortion? Stop people from travelling to places where it IS legal? Make contraception illegal? I am curious as to where the end game is?

    Conservatives say that gun laws don’t stop gun violence, this won’t stop abortions. All this will do is prevent poor people from getting a safe abortion.

    So if someone makes a mistake, or their contraception’s fails, or is assaulted… the plan is to force them to give birth to an unwanted child. Make them pay all the medical bills of the hospital stay, and any other possible expenses with the birth. It really isn’t a joke that conservatives want nothing to do with the child or any assistance after it is born.

    I am happy to see that major corporations are stepping up to say that they will pay employees for travel to places where abortions are safe and legal.

  22. Randall Flagg

    Well put Jonnyv. Jason also fails on two other levels with his obvious false equivalence:

    1) They were legal procedures so in no way can you compare them to a crime like a bombing like Jason is trying (and miserably) failing to do. Also there is no proof all of those legal abortions were from/by lefties.

    2) He shows no proof that all of the abortions were done by lefties.

  23. Tuerqas

    Randall, I do know what that means in general, but do not see how you are applying it here. The post read:

    “Once again we see that it is the liberals who have such a strong propensity for violence when they don’t get their way. Antifa. BLM. Occupy Wall Street. Protests outside of justices’ homes. Attacking Senator Paul.”

    It spoke of how liberal representatives, en masse and starting with their leadership, are very pro-violence when promoting their views. They are only ‘pro-peace’ when their views are followed by everyone. Antifa, BLM, OWS were and are groups funded by Democrats to carry out liberal aims and violence is clearly a means they have been willing to use to achieve their ends. What goal post did I move?
    I would argue it was you who moved the goal posts by trying to fit the same shoe onto the conservative instances of violence that you cited. The lone real comparison was January 6th, and in my opinion it is a very weak comparison also, and I would be happy to discuss it if you have a mind to.

    The latest rejoinder is Tim Mcveigh, because he killed so many, but again it is a non-comparison. He represented no one, he was insane, he was condemned by Dems, Reps, cons, and libs and never championed by any of those groups. if your contention is that all the right are insane killers that have been secretly idolizing McVeigh, keep your happy opinion, but I doubt you could sell that even on the Huffpost blog. If not, how does it compare?

    Despite widespread national violence, destruction, murders and injuries, Dems and most libs stand behind the killers and bombers among the BLM and Antifa membership. The money trail for both has been traced back to liberal backers and Dem organizers. Lib/Dems absolutely support violence as a means to THEIR ends and fight like little bitches to condemn and jail the opposition like the people at the Capitol on Jan 6th. For libs, yes I would just call them naive hypocrites, but not for the politicians. They are fully aware of their double standard and it would be hard to figure out which group they are laughing harder at. Their left followers for buying the most obvious double standard on violence in history as ‘not a double standard’ or at the right for accepting legal consequences for their one violent riot in recent memory.
    I stated the numbers for just Minneapolis and Portland, (the lowest numbers I could find) and the deaths. Baltimore was not far behind and many other cities had less damage and deaths due to Antifa and BLM led riots. Consequences: A Dem President and thin majorities in the House and Senate.
    What were the numbers for January 6th? 1.6 million in damages and 2 deaths, one of which was a protester. Consequences: 828 arrests to date.

  24. Jason

    >with his obvious false equivalence

    Hey I’m just playing your inane game, with you bringing up the Right’s version of Juicy Smullet, and Tim McVeigh. But you have an issue with comprehension to salient counterpoints… just like jv.

  25. Mar

    Oh Randall,you are so cute when you play stupid and you play the part so well.
    Let’s start with the riots, Many days times many cities. How about killing of police officers. How about storming the U S Supreme Court and Wisconsin. How rioters attacking people and murdering people during the riots. Oh, and don’t forget most of the city mayor’s and some liberal Da’s letting people out of jail and once on bail, the thugs commit more crimes. How about defending the cops. How about all those cases of smash and grab in places like Chicago, LA and San Francisco and nothing happens to them because of the liberal DA’s.
    Gee, let’s not forget the liberal who ran down all those people in Waukesha.
    So, keep playing stupid. You do it so well.

  26. Randall Flagg

    T:

    First and foremost thank you for being willing to engage in a civil conversation without name calling and personal attacks.
    There are three issues being intermingled here:
    1) The propensity of the left versus the right in performing violent acts
    2) The support of violent acts by the left versus the right (and their leadership)
    3) The effects of violence from the left versus the right.

    I believe you and others moved the goal posts when you added in the effects of violence and whether right lead or left lead violence had had more effects (#3). That is a really hard thing to do because how do you measure human life against property loss and such.

    So let’s go back to one and two. For #1, while you can argue McVeigh was not supported by the right, he clearly was a member of the right: Ex military, gun dealer, militia group member. That is why I brought McVay into the fold, along with number 3.

    As far as #2, support by violent acts by the left versus the right I think we need to separate the left and right in general versus their leadership. I don’t think in general people from the left or the right condone violence of any kind. So I disagree with your assertion “Dems and most libs stand behind the killers and bombers”

    I do agree with you that leadership/representatives tends to either support, or remain silent, about violent groups. I take your examples from the left leadership and will agree with them without argument.

    That being said let’s look at some examples from the right:
    *Proud Boys, the KKK, Oath Keepers, 3%ers, Qanon and others are funded by Republicans and Republican leadership does little to condemn their acts (and attends their events)
    *Trump told the Proud Boys to “stand by”
    *Trump said Qanon followers are “people that love our contrary” even though several of whom have been charged with murder, domestic terrorism, planned kidnapping (and let’s not forget Pizzagate)

    I could go on but my guess is you can find them as well.

    In the end what bothers me most about this, besides the violence, is the hypocrisy. Kathy Griffith shows a picture of her holding Donald trump’s head, and Republicans goal apoplectic. Paul Gosar posts and anime video portraying himself killing AOC and swinging a sword at president Biden and Republicans go out of their way not to condemn him. And yes, before you say it, Democrats do it as well. That is why not a single dollar of my money has ever gone to the Democratic or Republican Party, but has gone to individual candidates of both types

  27. Randall Flagg

    Mar:

    Who stormed Wisconsin?
    Who is ‘defending’ the cops?
    Who actually led the violence in the riots, and where’s your proof it was the left?
    Who was murdered in the violence, and where’s your proof it was the left who did the murders?
    Where is your proof the the person who ran down all those people in Waukesha was a liberal?

    I realized that weak minded people like you will take whatever people say and just swallow it as gospel, but as for me, I require proof. You said you could recall hundreds so let’s see specifics on those hundreds.

  28. Mar

    Again, you atecsi cute when play the stupid fool.
    Gee, Act union thugs and their supporters and then the George Fliyd riots in Madison where a couple of thugs hit a legislator and pulled down a statue.
    And there were many cops killed by BLM supporters.
    And thug’s Facebook told the story.
    I know you are not the brightest gnat in the gnat family, but try using Google. I am not your personal librarian.
    But keep playing stupid,you are very good at it.

  29. Mar

    “Again, you atecsi cute when play the stupid fool.”
    Should be “you are so cute playing stupid.”.
    13 hour shifts will do that to.you.

  30. Mar

    Oh, and Randall, by deny liberals don’t commit shows you are a supporter of violence by liberals. So, add 1 more item to the list of violent actions. If you stay silent, you are just as violent as those thugs who commit the crimes.

  31. Mar

    “I am happy to see that major corporations are stepping up to say that they will pay employees for travel to places where abortions are safe and legal.”
    Yes, it is much cheaper to pay for an abortion, even out of state than pay the woman or man to go paternity leave and add the choice on the company’s insurance along with paying sick time when the child is ill.

  32. Randall Flagg

    You really like to make things up Mar. Now you claim I ” deny liberals don’t commit ” which I assume means I deny liberals commit violence.

    So here is your chance Mar. Show exactly where I denied liberals commit violence. I am sure you have rock solid proof to make an accusation like that. So let’s see it…..

  33. Randall Flagg

    Jason:

    Or we could just use the Republican term for violence and call all of this “Legitimate Political Discourse.”

  34. dad29

    Conservatives say that gun laws don’t stop gun violence, this won’t stop abortions. All this will do is prevent poor people from getting a safe abortion.

    Sorta like all those poor people who ……….have guns they can’t afford?

    In fact, “poor people” do NOT have to pay for hospital, doc, etc. and there are plenty of charities which help with supplies for the kids.

    But that brings up the real problem: screwing before marriage, a topic the Left NEVER wants to discuss rationally.

  35. Randall Flagg

    So let’s talk about that one dad 29.

    Who has solved that problem?

    Religion sure hasn’t; Heck they could not even keep their priests from screwing nuns and then paying for abortions. They also knew their priests were abusing children and did nothing. Well actually worse than nothing because they moved them around so they could continue to pray on

    Sex education in schools hasn’t solved it.

    Sex education at home hasn’t solved it.

    We know that just say no it doesn’t work, be it drugs sex or other things

    So given that what proven solution do you have for it?

  36. jonnyv

    Dad29, poor people don’t have to pay for healthcare? Yeah. Ok.

    And here is where we get to the crux of the idea. Dad29 believes that sex should only be between a married couple, probably for procreation only too. And of course married is ONLY a man & woman. Dad29, did you watch The Handmaid’s Tale and think should be a template? Just because YOUR beliefs come from some made up deity that you interpret the way YOU WANT, no different than any other made up deity around the world, doesn’t mean you get to implement those beliefs on others. And that is where we differ. You think that you should be allowed to control people’s lives and healthcare.

    You want to talk about sex before marriage. Sure. Here is my take. IT IS GREAT. Mind your own business. There is nothing wrong with it. Are both people legally able to give consent… then keep your nose out of it.

  37. Tuerqas

    Randall, first I still don’t see the goal post move. I understand what you are saying I just disagree that there is a distinction there. The effects of any violent act is part and parcel to the act itself, I think to any con here there was never any separation in the first place. Your first comment seemed to be the most common liberal tactic used these days. They take one of their bad traits and accuse their rival of it. It is a very common marketing ploy today as well. Pick N Save’s worst feature has always been that their fresh food lasts about 2 days and goes bad. So of course, their commercial promotes their ‘freshness’. Dems have kept the Jan 6th riot in the public eye for a few years now, and it will be hyped through the next election. Why, because actual Republicans finally ‘rallied’ and a riot ensued. This is their first chance to finally honestly say “They do it too”, and they will keep that as long as they can. Of course it still wasn’t an election tool so all it got Reps was a bad rep…idiots.

    There are three issues being intermingled here:
    1) The propensity of the left versus the right in performing violent acts
    2) The support of violent acts by the left versus the right (and their leadership)
    3) The effects of violence from the left versus the right.

    I will start with 3 because you did. First, I would not categorize any singular, diagnosed insane person as a liberal or a conservative and hold his acts against the liberal or conservative side, provided they were condemned by that side. And as a note, Timmy did not vote for or send money to either Party either. He supported the NRA, but he was trying to stage a revolution against a tyrannical Government, including both parties. To call him a Rep/con is false. If I believe that racism is bad, does that make me a liberal because liberals claim the right are racists (just another bad trait of Dems that they pretend the other side is guilty of)? To call someone a member of the right or left, I believe they have to be supporting one of them. He specifically hated all Guv, including the right. So for comparison against all of the rioting that happened during the last election you have January 6th. And how do you measure property damage versus murders, you don’t, you measure each separately, and I did above. Anything more said here bleeds into 1) and 2) so I will end here.

    Looking back at your last comment, your 1) was defending that Tim was a member of the right so I have already responded to that part. But going to the statement, concerning propensity, the meat of your argument seems to be that they both do it so no harm, no damage.
    Here is the difference to me. The Democratic Party is proven to organize ‘rallies’ and ‘marches’ during Presidential election years. They have done it for more than a hundred years. They expect violence to happen so they can get their base fired up. Does the liberal electorate condemn the violence during these times? No, they support the reason for the march. They are indeed condoning violence and they are voting for it in the election. Have no black men been killed by policemen in the last 2 years? None will be until next year, Then racial tensions will magically rise, and/or Covid will resurface as a major problem. Want proof? Look up riots in Baltimore and compare the years of the large scale riots. Outside of Jan 6th, there is only one major riot and that was between abolitionists and slavery proponents.
    The Republican Party does not do that. I am not Republican and have voted for one of them 3 times in my life. I have no interest in defending the sneaky bitch party. Dems go out and wrest and steal power from the people and the States and then the Reps come in and just use that power. Neither is a party I would support.

    Now as far as the ‘right’ groups you mentioned, you have the relationship backwards. I agree that the KKK et al support the right, but every individual that was proven to support or belong to them has lost the support of the Republican Party. The Republican Party does not support the KKK. In fact, they condemn them (yes, even as they accept their donations, but Dems quietly accept them too).

    And even if I were a Republican that part of it would not particularly bother me. I wouldn’t stop my support of a Party simply because unsavories are also a part of the Party. I am a Libertarian, and there are some crazies in my party as well.

    The Dems actively support violence as an election tool, Reps don’t. Every act of violence by the right that was mentioned above was not SPONSORED by Republicans, nor were they supported by any sort of majority of them. As a note, I have never sent a penny to Reps or Dems either, I do support Libertarians.

  38. Randall Flagg

    T-

    Thank you again for the well thought out response. I was going to go into the fact that the leader of the Republicans , Donald Trump , show us very little if any condemning of violence , so the support for him would translate to also not condemning violence .

    However,I do not believe we will ever convince the other, so I will leave it at this.

    I have great respect for people who I don’t agree with that have a well thought out reason for believing the way they do, backed by facts and evidence. I realize I may not draw the same conclusions from the evidence that they do and that is OK.

    On the other hand I have zero respect for people who throw out comments like ” I can think of hundreds of acts of violence by xxxxxxx group”

    -Randall

  39. Randall Flagg

    Well put Johnny V. Also if waiting for marriage was the solution, there would be 0% of abortions in marriages. In actuality it’s 15% or so .

  40. dad29

    You want to talk about sex before marriage. Sure. Here is my take. IT IS GREAT. Mind your own business. There is nothing wrong with it. Are both people legally able to give consent… then keep your nose out of it.

    My, my, we’re a Sensitive Susie today! Got something you are ashamed of?

    The Left’s best card is the ‘sin happens’ card, and you’ve played it.

    Unfortunately for you, any person of faith knows that ‘sin happens,’ and it happens a lot. So what?

    Killing babies is no more a solution than is killing abortionists.

    And poor people do not pay for healthcare–at least in any meaningful way. I’m not going to bother pulling the receipts on that, as any damn fool knows about the welfare/charity system. But maybe you’re a Special damn fool….

  41. MHMaley

    If this ruling is confirmed , women will be livestock in 25 states , merel breeders for their owners .

    The NY firefighter is quickly becoming an icon after saying the quiet part out loud to a pro choice group :

    “ I own your bodies “

    FYI – the only place abortion appears in the Bible is instruction on how to do it .

  42. jonnyv

    Dad29, No I was not sensitive today. I was excited. Remember, it is only a sin… TO YOU. My conscience is clean, as well as the women I dated before my wife (and the men she dated). The left doesn’t say, “sin happens”, they say… SIN ISNT REAL. Because a SIN is a made up thing that your made up religion believes. Which is why we keep your made up religion out of our laws that are meant to govern ALL US Citizens. Separation of church and state.

    I am happy to have an abortion discussion with science. But don’t come at me with some BS “life begins at conception” bible crap. You want to argue about a fetus’s ability to survive at x amount of weeks. Whether it should be considered a person at some point? Sure. But if your argument involves your religion. You immediately LOSE.

  43. dad29

    Yes, you were ‘excited.’

    That’s because (as I observed earlier) you dismiss What. Is.regularly. Your excitement is caused by cognitive dissonance. Protest all you like but that’s a fact, Jack.

  44. jonnyv

    Dad29, now you are just speaking gibberish. Like I said, your religion should stay out of our laws.

  45. Merlin

    The godless sure are worked up at the prospect of a potential cultural sea change that might curtail their ability to kill what inconveniences them. I’ve always wondered about people who value so little a life not their own. They scream and squeal a lot, but just how committed are they to extinguishing what they don’t like? Full-on psychopathic or merely loudly sociopathic in the face in stiff opposition?

  46. Tuerqas

    Randall,
    First say out loud and then write down here that you believe that Trump is or ever was a typical and/or historical Republican Party leader:). He won the primary because conservatives have no voice in Government right now and so had the outsider appeal, and likely won the first election because too many Dems were sick of the Clinton version of Democrats and did not vote. It was 4 years of constant daily assault, half truths and lies about him from the Dem media machine that lost the second election. Imagine if impartial news outlets reported operation warp speed at all, much less honestly, for example. I can’t imagine many libs are actually happy with the Biden Admin, but maybe you could tell me.

    On McVeigh, do you believe voting for a Republican in 1992 qualifies him as a fully supported and beloved Republican or is this just nitpicking? His public record was that he was anti-Government and the building blown up had plenty of bi-partisanship. He did not hit a Dem Party HQ. There is no record of Tim’s active support for Republicans or Democrats.

    Personally, I strongly believe there should be a constitutional convention and restart our Government, I am just not willing to go and kill people over it to push that agenda. One thing we can wholeheartedly agree on, i think, is that the hypocrisy of both Parties is past ridiculous. The worst part of it has been the politicization of the news networks. Anyone who seriously quotes CNN or Fox or the Huffpost…is hard to take seriously in most cases. With so few viable (read: Honest) news sources it is nearly impossible to have a truly meaningful conversation if one or both sides demand ‘proof’. And that, I believe, is exactly the way our leaders want it.

  47. Tuerqas

    My first point was that Trump should hardly be considered mainstream Republican. It wasn’t that clear after reading it again.

  48. dad29

    The godless sure are worked up at the prospect of a potential cultural sea change that might curtail their ability to kill what inconveniences them.

    Moloch is always hungry.

  49. jonnyv

    Considering you believe that life starts at conception and I don’t puts us at two different places.

    I believe in personal freedom and privacy.

    How long until they go after birth control and Plan B?

    And the cultural tide isn’t swinging, by all polls a majority of Americans believe in the right to an abortion up to a certain point. In fact the direction keeps edging towards supporting it more. 60% in the first trimester.

  50. Mar

    Gee,still playing the stupid card. You have not ci deemed any liberal violence. You are like PerPervert Boy Le Roi who refused to condemn the liberal Pervert judge who watched babies getting raped and distributed child porn and now is sitting in prison playing the bitch to Bubba.
    Silence is violence.
    But keep playing stupid. You are so good at it. .

  51. Jason

    >actually he did vote. He voted in 1992 as a republican.

    So you’ve pinned your entire argument that the Right has an equal propensity for violence as the Left on examples like Tim McVeigh. And your proof is that he registered as a Republican in 1992… 3 years before he performed his violent act. That’s some true Liberal logic there folks. Just as solid as the Left foaming at the mouth claim Trump is racist and the only proof they trot out is that some KKK member said he supports Donald J Trump. Classic non sequitur, perfectly displayed and framed here by Flunky.

    Hey Randy, you have proven than Tim McVeigh registered as a Republican in 1992…. and that he voted, but can you prove that he voted for the Republican candidates. Even if you could, its still a non sequitur to your original completely unsubstantiated statement of equal propensity for violence.

  52. Mar

    The simple truth is that if conservatives commit crimes, they should tried and convicted.
    But liberals believe that if a liberal is accused in a crime, they should be released in bail , charged with a lowest level of charges or no no charges at all.
    But Felony Lover Randall doesn’t believes that liberals never commit crimes.

  53. dad29

    I believe in personal freedom

    Freedom is the liberty to do what is RIGHT, not whatever you damn well please.

  54. Mar

    “I believe in personal freedom and privacy.”
    I believe, Johnny, that you also supported believed in mask mandates and vacvine mandates.
    Am I wrong?

  55. jonnyv

    Mar, I believed in the freedom of companies to enact those mask mandates. I also didn’t have an issue with mask mandates. But, I don’t personally believe in vaccine mandates, every person had the right to choose (with the exception of military, as they are gov’t employees) their personal health. I also believe in the right to fire someone who would refuse to get vaccinated if their company required it.

    Dad29, what you believe is RIGHT, is only right for YOU. Not for the world.

    I can’t wait for all the unintended consequences. Did you know that IFV often terminate multiple pregnancies very early in attempts to get one that is viable? In fact, they are not even put in for up to 5 days after they have created the embryos. Are all those abortions now, how about the left over embryos that weren’t needed? There wasn’t a moment of conception other than in a lab. Once again, modern science is throwing wrenches into your ideas of “conception”. Suddenly you are going to screw with rich couples who can afford IFV?

    Where is the difference between combining a sperm and egg in a lab vs in a womb?

  56. Jason

    Randy Funk, when you were looking up the definition of “false flag” for me, thanks by the way it matches what I knew it to be, but did you happen to see any mention of “Jane’s Revenge”? No?

  57. Mar

    So, Johnny, you suport government imposing mandates. Ok, that’s fine.
    Then you should have no problems
    With states that restrict abortions.
    Agreed?

  58. jonnyv

    Mar, I would disagree with the abortion restrictions and fight to change them. But I would respect the law. And the fact that the WI law is well over 100 years old means it is out of touch with modern sensibilities, but no R would think about actually updating it.

    But let’s be honest, a majority of people want some form of legal abortion in the US within a certain time or under certain circumstances.

  59. Mar

    I do agree with you that a complete abortion is wrong.
    If the mom’s physical health is in danger or a is pregnant by rape. I would wish they would tgey would bring the baby to term but I would also understand if they wanted to abort the baby.

  60. Pat

    I understand the position you take when accepting abortion in order to protect the physical health of the mother but accepting abortion in the case of rape makes it sound like the life of the unborn is not as important as any other unborn. Or are you taking into consideration the psychological impact continuing the pregnancy to full term would have on the mother?

  61. Tuerqas

    JonnyV:
    “Considering you believe that life starts at conception and I don’t puts us at two different places.”

    This is the crux of all abortion debates. Too many people don’t agree that there are actually different starting places and never define their terms. Bravo JonnyV.

    Even Dad29 believes in abortions for eptopic pregnancies, you just have to pull the right teeth from his head to get him to say it:). And DAD, that is a different starting place than ‘life starts at conception’.

  62. Mar

    Pat, I an not sure who you are responding too, but…
    If a woman is raped and gets pregnant, the woman did not plan on or take prevention to become pregnant. I would hope she would keep the baby until it is born and either keep the child or have tge baby adopted.
    But I’d she feels she needs to have an abortion, that is something she should have an option to do.

  63. jonnyv

    Tuerqas. Thanks. I am NOT a religious person. I see science and the potential of what is coming. How long until we literally don’t need a woman to procreate 30 or 40 years? How long until we can recreate a womb outside and use AI to nurture and take care of the lab created embryo? What are the moral and legal repercussions of this? I don’t think we SHOULDNT make laws based on what COULD happen, but already, with things like IFV we have legal issues with many of the state’s abortion laws. Personally my belief is that I wouldn’t like to see any abortions after the first trimester (set aside medical issues with the mother), at 22-26 weeks is when an embryo can survive outside of the womb.

    And Mar, in regards to rape. You feel that if someone willingly has sex and gets pregnant (by accident, like a failed birth control), they should be forced to carry a child they DONT want, causing them physical & mental pain and suffering. But if they unwillingly or forcibly get pregnant it is OK to terminate the pregnancy to prevent them from…??? physical and mental pain and suffering? This is where I see a disconnect.

  64. Pat

    Mar, sorry, I was asking that question of you.
    Thank you for your response.

    But I’m curious about your reasoning for accepting abortion in the case of rape because the woman did not plan on or take prevention to become pregnant. Is it because the psychological health of the woman would be negatively impacted by taking her pregnancy to full term?

  65. Tuerqas

    I am a religious person…that lives in a free country. Aside from that, this is a true constantly moving goal post issue. Science can keep earlier and earlier times in the pregnancy alive every decade, if not every year so how could we set laws about ‘when’ a pregnancy could be aborted? But my biggest contention against outlawing abortion is not having infrastructure for the babies. To force the woman to have, keep and raise the baby at her own expense is beyond ridiculous and our adoption system is pathetic. All of those people who want babies and we can’t get them out of the disinterested hands and into the desirous hands without miles of expense and red tape…If Government takes enough of a part to outlaw abortion, they should be providing the infrastructure for adoption.

  66. jonnyv

    Tuerqas. For sure something you and I both agree on. The adoption system in this country is a disaster. Until we can guaranty the safety, healthcare, & education of the kids that we are FORCING to be born, I don’t think we should be forcing women to do something they don’t want, putting a kid into a miserable situation. Or instead of charging parents 10’s of thousands to adopt, we INCENTIVIZE them to do it with major tax breaks?

    OR… how about for every child put into the adoption system at birth, they get 100K credit when they turn 18 in their name, comes DIRECTLY out of tax payer money. Maybe that is for education or school, or something else. Then we will see how serious conservatives are about their beliefs over their wallets. There are usually about 100K kids waiting to be adopted at all times.

    Back to the real world… No one can (or wants) to answer any questions about WHEN it is OK to terminate an embryo. That would answer a lot of questions. Never? 7 days? 2 weeks? 10 weeks?

    As I have stated times here before, we found out at the 20 week ultrasound that our daughter had a hole in her skull and her “gray matter” was protruding. They gave her a 55% chance to survive to birth. We knew that bringing her into the world could have serious consequences for her and us. We quickly decided abortion wasn’t the option for us, but there were MANY nights when I pondered if we were making the right decision. We are fortunate that she survived, she pretty severely delayed (4 year old in a 10 year old body) and has some motor function & minor sight issues, but is a pretty happy kid. She will live with us forever most likely. But I wouldn’t fault ANY OTHER PERSON for making a different decision in the weeks after finding that out. Some people may not be ready to deal with that type of scenario.

  67. Mar

    Yes, Johnny, if a wo.an is raped, I understand her desired to get an abortion.
    But I’d she chooses to spread her legs, well, that’s on her. If she gets pregnant, then oh well, you made the mistake and now you have to pay and give birth to the baby. After that, if you want to.keep the baby or have the kid adopted. At least the baby is alive and can e adopted.

  68. jonnyv

    Mar that feels way more like a punishment than a moral reason.

  69. dad29

    Dad29, what you believe is RIGHT, is only right for YOU. Not for the world.

    Good thing I don’t think murdering you is “right,” eh?

    Clear that you haven’t thought through your declarations very well. Maybe you should.

    As to IVF (not IFV), conception is conception. Makes no difference where. And murdering 5 to get 1 is still murdering 5.

    Where TF did you get the idea that I suck up to “rich folks”? I think your cognitive dissonance is creating delusions far beyond your Power To Decide Right vs. Wrong. Best sit back and have a beer, JV

  70. dad29

    that is a different starting place than ‘life starts at conception’.

    Do you know, with absolute certainty, that it does NOT ‘start at conception’? Because, just like in firing a gun, unless you are absolutely certain of what’s behind your target, you’d best not shoot.

    “Life of the mother” has been stretched quite a bit further than ectopic, as you know. And killing the child of a rapist is still killing–except you’re killing the wrong party.

  71. Randall Flagg

    Forcing a rape victim to carry a child is giving the rapist a prize for his crime and punishing the victim…….

  72. Randall Flagg

    ***But I’d she chooses to spread her legs, well, that’s on her. If she gets pregnant, then oh well, you made the mistake and now you have to pay and give birth to the baby.***

    Meanwhile the father of the child walks away scot-free, with 0 changes to his body and no way to guarantee he will pay for the mistake.

  73. Mar

    “Meanwhile the father of the child walks away scot-free, with 0 changes to his body and no way to guarantee he will pay for the mistake.”
    Well, if this happens in a liberal city/county, you are probably right.

  74. Mar

    “Mar that feels way more like a punishment than a moral reason.”
    I would rather punish the mother than sentence the baby to a death sentence.

  75. dad29

    The “X” factor in those “rape” cases is ‘Were charges brought?’

    Usually, there are no charges, no accusations–just a murder of a baby.

    Isn’t that odd?

  76. Randall Flagg

    That is an interesting claim dad29. Do you have proof to back it up?

  77. Randall Flagg

    Foxed it for you Mar:

    Meanwhile the father of the child walks away scot-free, with 0 changes to his body and no way to guarantee he will pay for the mistake.”

    Well, if this happens with a **Republican politician involved**, you are probably right.

    Just ask Joe Walsh.

  78. jonnyv

    Dad29, I never said you “sucked up” to anyone. You need to stop projecting or reading what you want INTO my statements. I simply said that these laws will affect rich people who are trying all things to have a child. And I don’t know if that is the demographic that the R party wants to piss off or not.

    Dad29, how can you not be sure that life starts at the original egg? or sperm? You want to go back like that? In that case, sure lets make IUDs illegal too and vasectomies! Apparently as a teenager I may have committed MILLIONS of abortions. Very sad. lol.

  79. dad29

    Suddenly you are going to screw with rich couples who can afford IFV?

    Right. You did not say that. What you said above implies it, but you did not SAY it.

    As to ‘egg or sperm’, you’re running out of arguments that are even vaguely credible.

    Now let’s get back to the REAL question in matters of “right” and “wrong.”

    Who Decides?? That’s the real question (voiced by Antonin Scalia, by the way.) So long as you think that YOU can decide right/wrong, then so can I, and Mar, and T, and Owen. But you might not like our decisions, friend. Under your system, nothing prevents anyone from deciding that it’s right to take all your property–or just burn it down.

    Very sad. lol.

  80. jonnyv

    Oh jees Dad29, I never said I get to decide. I gave my opinion on what is right/wrong. I even said I would respect and make every effort to CHANGE any laws that I didn’t agree with. This is simply a discussion as to WHY I think some options are right and some are wrong. And in my opinion, I think that abortion up to a certain point should be completely legal. And that if your argument is rooted in religious beliefs against that, it is an invalid argument in the US.

    And Alito’s draft, which many have pointed out cited a 17th century judge that literally convicted women of witchcraft AND said you can’t rape your wife, sounds like it isn’t exactly in touch with our modern sensibilities and understandings of women’s rights. If it is one thing that this leak does, I hope it shined a light on the ANCIENT reasoning behind these judges decisions. And I honestly hope it sways them to change their minds before any final decisions are made.

    Dad29, do YOU think we should ban IVF and IUDs? How about birth control in general?

  81. dad29

    I gave my opinion on what is right/wrong.

    Sideways skedaddle, eh?

    Your ‘opinion’ of what is right/wrong is precisely your decision as to what is right/wrong. Don’t try to hide from it. Embrace it!!

    And that if your argument is rooted in religious beliefs against that, it is an invalid argument in the US.

    But it’s not. It’s based on the science–which happens to reinforce ‘religious’ belief. The science is simple: a human being is present at conception. It’s not a gorilla, nor a whale. It’s a human being. Above, T indicated that there is some question as to when a soul is present (which makes a complete human). To that I responded that unless he is absolutely positively certain WHEN that soul is infused, he is ill-advised to abort.

    Of course, YOU may know, absolutely and positively. But what we DO know–from the science–is that a human is conceived when sperm and egg meet.

    Religion (and solid metaphysics) add the ‘soul’ part, but that’s secondary.

    As to Alito’s decision: did he cite the judge’s decisions about witchcraft and rape? If not, so what? Stopped clocks and all that.

    Lincoln’s life as a lawyer before becoming President had some rather ….ugly……episodes when he represented the railroads. (The term “railroaded” came from the business practices of Lincoln’s clients.) Should we, thus, allow the South to depart the Union? Re-enslave the slaves?

    Any birth control method which is abortofacient should be outlawed, period. And there are NON-chemical, very effective means to control fertility. But that raises another question: why are you (and others) so damned opposed to children? Hmmmmm??? After all, THAT is the root of the ‘birth control’ question when you get right down to it.

    Do kids bother you? Are they inconvenient? Noisy? Demanding? Well guess what: that’s the Left!!

  82. dad29

    *abort-I-facient* Sorry about the mis-spell.

  83. Mar

    “Foxed it for you Mar:”
    Does this mean Randall, you are a closetconservative who watches Fox News.?
    I bet you are a fan of Guttfield

  84. Randall Flagg

    Thanks for pointing out my typo mar. Given I’m not a professional typo artist like you I don’t always catch them. Why just look at your beauties in these posts alone:

    “How about **defending** the cops.”
    “Again, you atecsi cute when play the stupid fool.”
    “Act union thugs” – What are Act union Thugs?
    “George Fliyd riots”
    “deny liberals don’t commit shows” – Deny liberals don’t commit what exactly?
    “You have not ***ci deemed*** any liberal violence.”
    “if a wo.an is raped” “But I’d she chooses” “can e adopted.”

  85. Mar

    Hey, if you are going to.rip.me in my typos, payback is a bunch.
    As, for the other things, you’re just a dumbass.

  86. Mar

    “Thanks for pointing out my typo mar. Given I’m not a professional typo artist” so says the moron who likes to point other people’s errors.

  87. Tuerqas

    Dad29:
    >Do you know, with absolute certainty, that it does NOT ‘start at conception’? Because, just like in firing a gun, unless you are absolutely certain of what’s behind your target, you’d best not shoot.

    >“Life of the mother” has been stretched quite a bit further than ectopic, as you know. And killing the child of a rapist is still killing–except you’re killing the wrong party.

    >But it’s not. It’s based on the science–which happens to reinforce ‘religious’ belief. The science is simple: a human being is present at conception. It’s not a gorilla, nor a whale. It’s a human being. Above, T indicated that there is some question as to when a soul is present (which makes a complete human). To that I responded that unless he is absolutely positively certain WHEN that soul is infused, he is ill-advised to abort.

    We have had this discussion before and you said you not only agreed with me, but that your religion agreed with me for a long time. And here you are shooting yourself in the foot again. I never even implied that life does or does not start at conception. I have said numerous times that an ectopic pregnancy requires an abortion or the mother will 99.99999% die and the baby will 99.9999% die. 20 years ago Catholics I argued with disagreed. In the last year, you have said that you and the Catholic church have agreed with abortion for ectopic pregnancies for a long time and now YOU are projecting more to my position (something you are guilty of on occasion:).

    ““Life of the mother” has been stretched quite a bit further than ectopic, as you know. ”

    Not by me, so don’t project any of my words at the stretched points. I have said that there is disagreement on when a new life has an independent set of rights as it is 100% dependent upon the mother (not the State) for a significant amount of time. I will say that I see that point of view, not that I agree with it, just as I see the full life at conception point of view.

    I have said that if life starts at conception, then God condones abortion is some cases, like ectopic pregnancies. Answer that if you like, but don’t stretch my words. I am not talking about more than ectopics and/or other conditions with virtually a 100% chance of the mother’s death or babies death in utero as far as concretes, because I do not know God’s mind. The Catholic Church thinks it does know God’s mind, and that is the biggest problem you and I continue to have.

    I fired no bullets at when a baby is a ‘complete human’, I have merely pointed out in the past what the implications that that thought process points to. You have agreed that the Bible does not specifically say life is at conception, it is a Catholic construct.
    So you condemn all other points of view than that the baby is a full souled, full rights human being at conception, even as you, by logic, admit it means that God essentially approves of all eptopic pregnancy abortions. I can accept that you believe that, but I wouldn’t want secular law based upon one sect of religion. That is not what this country is about. The closest countries to that set of beliefs are in the Middle East. Nor do I want one set of atheists making laws on abortion, so we have to listen to many points of view all of which have many starting points for when life begins and when abortion dates should end. I have mine, but I do not think mine is the only valid point.

  88. Randall Flagg

    “Hey, if you are going to.rip.me in my typos, payback is a ***bunch***.”

    Mar, I can’t remember how many times my old pappy used to tell me payback is a bunch.

  89. Tuerqas

    Oh Randall, you know he was foxing you…

    Admit it, both of you, foxing and bunching were both just misprints that were funny.

  90. Randall Flagg

    Tuerqas-

    That’s exactly what they were. I really hope posters don’t take these blogs and the comments on them seriously. It’s just entertainment. Pure entertainment.

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