Boots & Sabers

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0727, 20 Apr 20

13 Days Since Election and Still No Spike in Covid Cases

I note that it’s been 13 days since we held an election in Wisconsin and we have not had a spike in cases or deaths. What does this tell us? First, it tells us that the hyperbolic panic of some was unfounded. The panic was either based in irrational fear or purposefully misleading for political ends (I suspect some of both). Second, it tells us that we do have the ability to go back to our normal lives if we take some reasonable steps to limit the risk of infection. Wash our hands, maintain distance, wear a mask if you want, etc. We can absolutely go back to work in a reasonable fashion.

Open the state.




0727, 20 April 2020


  1. jjf

    Looks like it’s still climbing.  “It tells us.”  O RLY?

    So depending on how you want to spin it, maybe Vos’s PPE and the distancing in the voting lines saved a few lives.

    You think if they hadn’t done that, the curve would be the same, huh?


  2. Jason

    Same thing if you look at the National numbers…. you cannot find a spike that would point to a massive rise in cases due to Spring Break or St Patties day…  you know the two massive events that happened right around the “Safer At Home” “Shelter In Place” “Shut the fucking economy down”.



    Tthe Number of US Cases by date shows a normal progression on growth, with an outlier between 4/3 and 4/4 and again between 4/4 and 4/5 – which I attribute to some type of error either in testing or reporting.  Otherwise, you cannot pick out when St Patties day occurred, and remember that weekend was the cause of the stupid governors in IL and NY closing down everything!

  3. Jason

    >You think if they hadn’t done that, the curve would be the same, huh?

    Hey Johnny, why don’t you prove that the curve would have been different if they hadn’t.  The fact is there was a massive group of people out for “non-essential life saving activity” and there is no deviation on the normative line shown on the graphs.  Just like evil St Patties day and all those monster bar patrons, or Spring Break and all those evil beach goers.

  4. jjf

    Step up, Jason.  Tell me what you think would be happening to the curve if none of this lockdown nonsense was in place.

  5. Jason

    >Step up, Jason.  Tell me what you think would be happening to the curve if none of this lockdown nonsense was in place


    Step up Johnny, tell us all what the numbers would be if “Safer At Home” hadn’t happened.  So far, both Owen and I have given some facts, you have given nothing.  But keep asking for more, see where it gets you.

  6. Kevin Scheunemann

    Owen is right on target as usual.

    Libs cheer the economy being torn apart.

    No surprises here.


  7. Pat

    I’m all for opening up the state.
    Is there a plan proposed? Do we need a plan?

  8. jjf

    Jason, you think there would be fewer cases without lockdown?

    Welcome to the paradox of public health.  If you do it right, nothing happens.  You think these folks don’t know their job, but you do?

  9. dad29

    Prove that there would be MORE cases without them, Jiffster.

    Use the experience of other countries, like South Korea, or Taiwan.

    Go ahead.  We’ll wait.

  10. Merlin

    There you go with numbers again, Owen. You know the emotional reasoning crowd doesn’t do numbers, especially numbers that don’t support their Henny Penny syndrome. More numbers! Make it hurt!

  11. Jason

    >Jason, you think there would be fewer cases without lockdown?
    >Welcome to the paradox of public health.  If you do it right, nothing happens.  You think these folks don’t know their job, but you do?

    I asked for some facts, you know like the ones that Owen shared, and the ones I shared, and instead you ask more stupid questions.  I thought you wanted meaningful, intelligent debate.  Instead you just want to continue to spread FUD and avoid.

  12. Jason

    >Is there a plan proposed? 


    Finally a common sense question from Pat.   I don’t know, has Evers shared one yet?  What has he been doing since implementing “Safer At Home”?  I don’t know, he’s not been very communicative.

  13. jjf

    The facts are in front of you.  Still more cases.  Without lockdown, there would be even more cases.  And you know that if you lift the lockdown, there would be more cases than there are today.  Facts, right?  Simple facts.  But OMG you can’t go to Fuddruckers.

  14. jjf

    Dad29, is your family in lockdown?  Doing anything to prevent getting infected?  Anything special to prevent you from getting it?

  15. Jason

    >But OMG you can’t go to Fuddruckers.


    Way to shit on thousands and thousands of fellow Wisconsin small business owners who are losing everything they worked for so you can be snarky.


    All that nonsense you just dribbled out has no meaning to the adults in the conversation.  You’re not helping anyone and you’re making yourself look irrational and ignorant.

  16. jjf

    Why not just obey a lawful order, Jason?

    If you think it’s not lawful, take it to court.

    So many worship the military, talk about the good ol’ days of WW II…  did the government ask people to endure any deprivations then?

    Losing everything they worked for…  You mean people weren’t prepared for financial troubles?  All that money trickling down from Foxconn and tax breaks didn’t fill their bank accounts?  You’re saying there is no cushion at all?  Maybe they should sell their fishing boat and their big flat-screen TV and not have cable and none of that baggy-pants bling-bling, and take some personal responsibility.  Print out some resumes, shake some hands and introduce yourself to the boss at that company down the street, I hear they’re hiring, and good money, too!  Or become a welder in their newfound spare time.  Borrow some money from your family.  Get a roommate.

  17. Jason

    More shit from Johnny.  What a classy guy.

  18. Pat

    “I don’t know, has Evers shared one yet?”

    The best people to formulate a plan would be the State Assembly. My reasoning is that those elected officials would have a better idea where their districts stand in regards to the pandemic. With input from businesses they would be able formulate a cohesive plan, taking into consideration adjoining districts.

    Once they have a plan to propose they present it to the Governor who, with a team made up of State Senate and Assembly members, verify the impact it may have on adjoining states.

  19. Pat

    You can see Robin Vos is all over this.
    From his FaceBook page on Saturday:

    “It’s a beautiful Satuday and what’s on my agenda for the day; not a ton of options with the lockdown besides going for a walk or watching TV.

    So instead I’m spending from 930am to 4pm calling back constituents. 70+ so far, getting through to maybe 1/3. Lots of positive comments about our efforts to get clarity regarding Governor Evers extension of the quarantine. A few angry, some afraid, only one hang-up.

    Best call so far – one gentleman called simply to tell me that he added me to his daily list of those he prays for. #racinecountyproud”

  20. Jason

    >The best people to formulate a plan would be the State Assembly.


    I agree with this.  Isn’t it a shame that Evers instead just told us all that he’s going to join in a group with a bunch of other states to work on a coordinated plan?  While I think there is merit in discussing things with our neighbors, our state is unique enough that our leader should be focused on us first.

  21. Pat

    In the mean time while Evers is focused on issues between states, I still think it’s Robin Vos’ responsibility to coordinate between districts what’s best for them. It’s also the responsibility of our elected Assembly Representatives to to coordinate between their communities, and in turn, mayors to coordinate with businesses and their constituents.

    It’s not just an effort that needs to be made by one person.

    Make sense?

  22. jjf

    Weird.  When thousands protest at the Capitol, when clear majorities support other changes to government…  Vos says all that doesn’t matter.

    But a few calls from constituents that support his future campaign running against Evers…  step right up!

  23. dad29

    is your family in lockdown?  Doing anything to prevent getting infected?  Anything special to prevent you from getting it?

    Just don’t like sharp-edged questions, do you?  So instead of answering–which you cannot do–you decide to spread FooFooDust.

    OK, then I’ll give you an easier question to deflect from:  Can you show us how effective the NYC lockdown was?  Use numbers OR words.  Check your work.

    We’ll wait.

  24. jjf

    I’ll leave the pandemic response to the experts, Dad29.

    Predicting NYC correctly or incorrectly is far more difficult than my simple question, whether it’s for you or me.

    I asked a much simpler question:  Do you think we’d have more or fewer cases if lockdown stopped?

    I’m in lockdown because I don’t want to get sick and I don’t want others to get sick.  Are you and yours?

    Or were you out there with your AR over your shoulder, one of the dozens – dozens I say! – protesting?

  25. Merlin

    Y’all can be brutal on a Monday morning.


  26. Pat

    I had my Cocoa Puffs. I’m good now.

  27. jjf

    I think you love them now, Mar.  Can you read the article you supplied, and tell me the differences between us and them?  Did they adhere to social distancing?  Or did they say “F U, we’re going to the Dells.”

  28. Mar

    Pat, I know you probably didn’t read the whole article, but that’s ok, I did.
    The article just compared Sweden to just 4vcountries and spewed its leftist view.
    Yes, they have a higher death rate than other Nordic countries and Germany.
    But they have a much death rate per million than 9 European countries and did a little better than the US, 150 deaths per million compared to 125 for the US and they didn’t destroy their economy and their hospitals were not overrun with patients.

  29. Mar

    jjf, they probably did both, what’s your point?
    They didn’t destroy their economy and they used commonsense.
    And they trusted their citizens, unlike you and your ilk.

  30. Pat


    I read the entire article. I said I found it interesting. You, not so much evidently. And that’s ok.

  31. Pat


    What do you think about my comments about opening up the state?

  32. Jason

    >And they trusted their citizens, unlike you and your ilk.


    And they would likely actually punish those that couldn’t follow the rules, another thing they have on American Liberals.   The first step of  American Liberals was to announce plans to stop arresting large swaths of crimes.

  33. jjf

    Otay Mar, I’ll quote your article to you:

    Part of that approach relies on having access to one of the world’s best-functioning health-care systems. At no stage did Sweden see a real shortage of medical equipment or hospital capacity, and tents set up as emergency care facilities around the country have mostly remained empty.

    So they’re Bernie when it comes to hospitals.

    Pomeroy pointed to some Swedish characteristics that may be helping the country deal with the current crisis. More than half of Swedish households are single-person, making social distancing easier to carry out. More people work from home than anywhere else in Europe, and everyone has access to fast Internet, which helps large chunks of the workforce stay productive away from the office.

    Not the best time to once again try to improve our Internet infrastructure, but hey, I bet someone will hand out more tax breaks to the telecoms.

    And while many other countries have introduced strict laws, including hefty fines if people are caught breaching newly minted social-distancing laws, Swedes appear to be following such guidelines without the need for legislation. Trips from Stockholm to Gotland — a popular vacation destination — dropped by 96% over the Easter weekend, according to data from the country’s largest mobile operator, Telia Company. And online service Citymapper’s statistics indicate an almost 75% drop in mobility in the capital.

    “My ilk.”  He’s your Governor, too.  Your Legislature.

    So those couple dozen protesters the other day…  we are to trust them to do what?  Was it only a few days ago that Owen posted a video of a guy who couldn’t figure out what “six feet” meant?

  34. Mar

    Pat, I do agree with you that the GOP should step up and override Evers. Then they can come up with reasonable restrictions. It’s not a 1 size fits all situation. What could be good for Madison and Milwaukee is not good for Ashland, Spring Green, Montello or Neilsville.

  35. Mar

    Well, jjf, I would rather trust the protestors as opposed to Evers as they probably know the Constitution better than him and they certainly are more intelligent than Evers in common sense.
    Evers is a lot like President Obama, very book smart but has no clue how the real world works.

  36. jjf

    So you’re saying the protesters are epidemiologists as well as Constitutional scholars?

    Define “better than him.”  Who is an example of someone who really knows the Constitution, and how did they get his knowledge?

    I hear this “common sense” notion all the time.  An argument that not being educated is somehow better than being educated.  And they’re utterly confident about this!  No measurement necessary.  Just an assertion that if you didn’t go to school, somehow you have better knowledge (Of what?  Anything?) than someone who did.

    What makes you think Evers wasn’t in “the real world” and has “no clue” about it?  Why do you dismiss his experience, but overvalue the experience of the person who didn’t do what Evers did?

  37. Pat

    Evers announced his plan. Some people will like it, some will unhappily accept it but look for changes, EDS folks will grab their Gadsden and Dixie flags, arm themselves themselves, jump in the pickup trucks, and head to Madison for a big protest rally.

  38. Pat

    Evers announced his plan. Some people will like it, some will unhappily accept it but look for changes, EDS folks will grab their Gadsarm themselves

  39. Pat

    Ignore last comment. Auto sent with, yes Jason, errors. I would like to offer my sincere apologies.

  40. dad29

    I’m in lockdown

    Good.  Your Mom and I are both proud of you.  But mostly your Mom.

  41. Jason

    >“My ilk.” He’s your Governor, too.

    Hes your president too.

  42. dad29

    The local kittylitterliner blares that someone MAY have found SEVEN cases of CCP Virus ‘due to election day’ in Milwaukee.

    “There needs to be a little bit more analysis so we can connect the dots….”

    You can bet that Barrett will connect those dots if he has to use his whole box of Crayolas.

  43. dad29

    drops from ~9% to 0.1% – 0.2%   …

    Damn.  That’s just like the FLU!!

  44. jjf

    Just like the flu?  Just like Smithfield in SD?

  45. MjM

    @ Jason    Same result in Santa Clara county.

    So, lets have some fun and scare the bejeezez out of Nort and DMOTP Jiffy:

    Based on the 4.1% of population,  WI has  238,702 total cheeseheads walking around with the CCPvirus.



  46. Jason

    Wonder if and when someone will update those “models” to project more accurate numbers.  Hard to justify impoverishing 22+ million American’s when the annual Flu kills as many people…   Don’t forget it’s not a switch, it’s a dial.


    I know, this is Trump’s fault too.

  47. Mar

    Yes, jjf, its hard to believe but the flu is contagious and at least once or twice in the history of the flu, hundreds of people who work closely together, catch the flu together.
    Amazing as that sounds.

  48. jjf

    Jason, Trump’s problem now is that you can’t gaslight a virus.

    Just like the flu!  Even the right doesn’t believe that.

  49. Jason

    >, Trump’s problem now is that you can’t gaslight a virus.

    Oh yeah, you mean like how you’re gaslighting Trump now?


    Your article isn’t “the right”.  It’s one person’s opinion.  Go get some facts boy.

  50. Mar

    Lowery’s point is that more people would have died if we didn’t have the lockdown and hospitals would have been overwhelmed.
    First, there has been no study saying more people would be dead. Its unknowable.
    But we do know people gave been dying in their homes from suicide, overdoses, stress related illnesses, not going to the hospital when they should have because they were afraid to etc. Lowery and the left doesn’t consider those people important.
    And the hospitals were not going to be overwhelmed. When it comes to handling emergencies, no one does it better than the US.
    The problem is the experts were wrong, big time. Le Roi and jjf listened to them and they look fools, then and now.
    Some of us have doubted the experts from the beginning and I wish people would have listened to us.

  51. jjf

    I guess it’ll just be “unknowable,” Mar.  What do those experts know?  Maybe there would’ve been fewer deaths if there was no lockdown.  It’s a mystery.  Let’s just watch Fox News.  They know.

  52. Mar

    jjf, obviously, you don’t watch Fox News, as they are almost as bad as the others.
    The politicians and media listen to the most outrageous claims. No one would put on a doctor or specialist on TV if they didnt say something outrageous or bash President Trump.
    And what do those experts know? They know how to fool the gullible sheeple like you.

  53. Le Roi du Nord

    “And what do those experts know?”

    Probably all sorts of stuff on their field of expertise. Hence the term.

    What do you know? What is your field of expertise?

  54. jjf

    Mar only listens to the experts who aren’t in the business of fooling sheeple like him.  They said so!

  55. Pat


    What unbiased news outlets do you source for your referencing?

  56. Pat

    “ But we do know people gave been dying in their homes from suicide, overdoses”

    Has there been a study with exact numbers for these?

  57. Mar

    Pat, does it matter?

  58. Pat

    Mar, evidently.

  59. dad29

    It’s one person’s opinion.

    And that of a NeverTrumper, no less.  So we know that it’s scrupulously honest.

  60. dad29

    What do those experts know?

    Well, they KNOW that: “2,200,000……..ahh…….240,000……..umnnnhhh….well, not….actually, 84,000………..ah……I don’t think…………oh, maybe only 61,000……..but wait until next week!!!!!

  61. Mar

    “What do you know? What is your field of expertise?”
    Funny you should ask. My area of expertise is Special Education. That’s why I know so much about your problems, Le Roi.

  62. Mar

    So, Pat, unless there is a study done, screw those people who die at home.
    Nice that you think that.

  63. Le Roi du Nord


    But you have claimed here, several times, to have worked in the medical field for “decades”, and another time for “forty years”. Or is it now convenient not to remember?

  64. Mar

    And Le Roi, I have. I wasn’t always a special education teacher. And when I was a teacher, i usually worked 2 jobs.
    I have worked in nursing homes, hospitals, institutions, EMS, firefighter, group homes. Medic in the Air Force.
    I went to school a little later in life than most people.
    And when i was a teacher, i worked with the most medically and physically and mentally challenged and worked with the therapies, nurses, respiratory, doctors and others.

  65. Le Roi du Nord

    So you really aren’t an expert in anything, right?

  66. Mar

    Actually, I am an expert in working with the most severely disabled students and with working with Amish families and special education. And at the time, i was one of the experts in the Special Olympics.
    And the Air Force trained me to about the RN level.
    But I am also an expert in dealing with people like you, who are total liars and trolls.

  67. Le Roi du Nord

    But none of that makes you an expert in epidemiology.

    And I’m sure you don’t know much about me, or dealing with me.  And you will never win a conservation, either.

    PS:  the VA just released some information on a study they were doing regarding the effectiveness of your miracle drug on covid19.  It doesn’t look like it works.  But as a decades long expert in the medical field you knew that, right?

  68. Mar

    Nice try Le Roi, but I read the article and it was not an official or comprehensive trial. More extensive trials are going on. I guess you forgot that part.
    And apparently the so called epidemiology experts are not really experts either as we have so many different experts spouting all different numbers.
    Finally, I know enough of you to know you are a Liar and a Troll.

  69. Le Roi du Nord

    And yet again you prove that your reading skills are lacking.  Now go have a conservation with someone that cares one iota about what you think.

  70. Mar

    Once again Troll Le Roi is proven wrong and he is taking his ball a s going home, crying to his mother or anyone else who cares about him.

  71. MjM

    Mar for the WIN : “My area of expertise is Special Education. That’s why I know so much about your problems, Le Roi.”

    S t a n d I n g O

  72. Le Roi du Nord


    I didn’t say it was a comprehensive trial, you made that assumption. But is a far more scientific study than you and trump used to promote your miracle cure. That is where we differ, I don’t make assumptions based on the misguided opinions of others. Now go win a conservation.

  73. Jason

    >I don’t make assumptions based on the misguided opinions of others.


    And yet you still support the socioeconomic lockdown we have been enduring since early March?   Even though a few weeks back Neil M. Ferguson, the author of the flawed model, stated his data was based on bad estimates.  Even though there are large scale scientific studies showing that the infection rate is far, far higher than thought back in February and March?   To the tune of 20-50 times higher?


    Seems like you actual do make assumptions based on misguided opinions….  you’re just too dumb to recognize it.

  74. Mar

    Well, Le Roi, I am glad that you are celebrating the medicine President Trump suggested is not working in a unscientific test. You must be so happy that more people are dying. After all the more people die, the better the chance Trump will lose the election which is your goal.
    Those who died are just taking one for the liberal team.

  75. jjf

    Yeah, Mar, Trump’s magic bullet doesn’t seem to be holding up in any trials.  It’s not a celebration that it doesn’t work, any more than we celebrate all the other things that don’t cure it.

    I hope you can find a path to realizing that Trump is a mad man, and that you can find a way to save face.

  76. Le Roi du Nord


    And yet another gross assumption from mar: “I am glad that you are celebrating the medicine President Trump suggested is not working in a unscientific test.”  Not one bit.    The VA study is far more scientific, and was conducted by actual medical professionals, than anything you and trump had read (assuming either of you can read) before touting  your miracle cure.

    And I am not happy that anyone is dying due to covid19.  You have been the one pushing  “acceptable” mortality rates, so take credit for your ghoulish opinions.

    Yes, I hope trump will lose, but not because of his botched response to the virus, but for entire portfolio of mismanagement, graft, and abhorrent behavior he has accumulated in the past 3+ years.

    j:  No, you are absolutely wrong, and have been for a long time.  Keep digging.

  77. Mar

    Le ROI, you just keep on lying and lying.
    Most people would have been disappointed the drugs may not work but you and jjf celebrate it.
    That means you were hoping the drugs wouldn’t work and people died.
    You are the ghoulish one.

  78. Le Roi du Nord


    How am I celebrating the fact that the drug doesn’t work?  Or are you once again using the wrong word?  I want more than anything that some miracle drugs shows up and wipes out the virus.  But I won’t promote something with no known efficacy, something with some pretty severe side effects, and give folks a false hope.  Reality and truth is always the best policy.

    Get smart.  Be safe.

  79. Mar

    Le Roi, you would have been against childhood vaccinations, wouldn’t you.

  80. jjf

    Mar, it’s not as if you were giving the people sugar pills.  Trump’s drug has known effects, known side effects, known risks.  If it is shown to have a positive effect on the virus, I’m all for it.

  81. Pat

    I wonder what President Snifflesgrabinpus is going to do with the 22 million Hydroxychloroquine pills he stock piled?

  82. jjf

    Doesn’t matter, Pat.  The check has already been cashed.

  83. Mar

    Wow. Post, you’re both bigoted and hateful today. Want to go for racist and make it a tridecta?
    I am glad you are celebrating this and you are in the category of wanting more people to die like jjf and Le Roi.
    Tell me, the 3 liberal haters, how do you propose to treat the patients with the virus since no treatment has been approved for treatment.
    Now, you three, carry on to continue your piggy jiggy to celebrate the president opinion might be wrong, but not proven to be wrong, and more people dying.

  84. Mar

    I apologize, should be Pat instead of post.

  85. Pat

    Bigoted? How so?

  86. MjM

    Nort lies yet again:   The VA study is far more scientific, …than anything you and trump had read (assuming either of you can read).

    Speaking of not being able to read more than FakeNews uber-hyped headlines…..

    To the contrary, this was not in any sense a “study” of actual observed treatment and is no more “scientific” than last year’s baseball statistics. Your FakeNewsHeadline, non-peer reviewed, so-called “study” was a simple review of past medical records.

    The main flaw in this review is so obvious – so much so they authors themselves happen to note it –  it may not be even worth anyone’s time to (try to) walk your dead brain through all the other flaws.

    However, hydroxychloroquine, with or without azithromycin, was more likely to be prescribed to patients with more severe disease, as assessed by baseline ventilatory status and metabolic and hematologic parameters. Thus, as expected, increased mortality was observed in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine, both with and without azithromycin.

    It’s already well-established that hydroxychloroquine’s most effective use against CCPvirus is in the early stages.

    You could look it up.


  87. jjf

    Looky there, MjM’s a doctor and a researcher, too!

  88. dad29

    MjM is correct, which is better than both you and LeeeeeeeeeeeeeRoy, master of Failing Business country.

  89. MjM

    DMOTP Jiffy, per usual, has nothing:  Looky there,

    No, just an ability to get past FakeNews.

    Unlike you and Nort and Patsy.

    Seen any overstuffed hospitals yet?  It’s “next week”, you know.

  90. Pat


    Where do you get your real news from?

  91. Le Roi du Nord


    You are making big assumptions without a shred of evidence. No mar, I am all for childhood vaccines.  Two of my best friends from childhood are still on crutches from polio.  That wouldn’t happen today.


    “It’s already well-established that hydroxychloroquine’s most effective use against CCPvirus is in the early stages.”

    Not unless that was just established this afternoon.

  92. dad29

    Nah, that was established a few weeks ago, but maybe in Failing Business country you don’t get current news.  It’s also established that the dose should be less than 450 mg./day, and a zinc supplement is usually helpful.

    Finally, you may have noted that CDC/FDA take ‘no position’ on the VA experiment other than to note that it occurred.  There’s a reason for that.

  93. Jason

    >Looky there, MjM’s a doctor and a researcher, too!

    Now that Johnny has established guidelines for knowledge before commenting on a topic, I for one am glad to know that he and Leroy will never he heard from again.

  94. Le Roi du Nord


    Please share your sources, facts would be a bonus.

  95. MjM

    Nort demands what he nEvers supplies: “Not unless that was just established this afternoon….. .facts would be a bonus.”

    Practice what you preach, numbnutz.

  96. Mar

    So, Wisconsin is being shut down for .08% of the population who got infected and .004% of state residents who died?
    Preposterous and stupid.

  97. jjf

    That’s the smell of success, Mar.

  98. Le Roi du Nord

    Hey MJS, if what you say is true why not share it with us? Do yourself proud and solve the virus problem.

  99. Le Roi du Nord

    Sorry mjm I let that slip. My apologies.

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