Boots & Sabers

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1500, 16 Mar 20

Large Gatherings Banned in Wisconsin

What’s the enforcement mechanism for this?

UPDATE: There it is:

252.25 Violation of law relating to health. Any person who willfully violates or obstructs the execution of any state statute or rule, county, city or village ordinance or departmental order under this chapter and relating to the public health, for which no other penalty is prescribed, shall be imprisoned for not more than 30 days or fined not more than $500 or both.
It will be interesting to see how people react when they are rounded up and imprisoned for going to church… or protesting government… I think social distancing is the responsible thing to do, but there’s a big step between “you should do it” and “do it or government will throw you in prison.”

1500, 16 March 2020


  1. Kevin Scheunemann

    If anyone from Evers office thinks I am going to have the Kewaskum Police Department enforce this on a place of worship, or religious gathering, within the Village of Kewaskum…they are very, very, mistaken.     Spiritual nourishment and feeding is what is needed most in times of national crisis.

    Also, the private schools within the Village are not under the authority of Governor Evers by Supreme court precedent.   These private schools, within the Village of Kewaskum, have chosen to honor the order of Tony Evers to shut down as of Wednesday.   However, if those private schools want to re-convene at some point, I will not oppose the decision of private schools, within the Village of Kewaskum, to call school back in.

  2. Mar

    But yet, factories, call centers, non-essential government workers in offices of 50 or more and other places of 50 or more not on the list.

  3. Kevin Scheunemann

    On Owen’s update…what happens when local prison has more than 50  from locking up peaceful and faithful Christians?   Would that prison be a prohibited “mass gathering?”


  4. Jason

    With all the county DA’s around the country just starting to proclaim that they will lessen enforcement of minor crimes to try to avoid jail crowding, I wonder if this falls in that category?

  5. MjM

    The world is insane.

  6. Le Roi du Nord

    Take a look at 252.03(2).   This is state law and has been for a long time.  Blaming Evers is really foolish and dishonest.

  7. jjf

    Dunno, Kevin, step it up and test the law.  Fight for your right to infect one another.  WWJD?

  8. Le Roi du Nord

    Wow, denying state statute. Amazing.

  9. Mar

    No, Le Roi is your lack of reading ability and comprehension.

  10. Mar

    I should have said amazing is your lack of reading ability…

  11. Mar

    President Trump said the crisis might go into October or November. If that happens, watch the media and the left say this is a conspiracy by Trump to steal the election.

  12. Le Roi du Nord

    Look at that, only the middle of March and you are making excuses for 45. Bravo!

  13. Kevin Scheunemann


    Jesus would proclaim the Gospel.   We look after our spiritual nourishment as well as our physical bodies.  Our congregation has decided to add services to encourage the faithful use of the means of grace in hopes of keeping each service under 50 people.   Here is the thoughful statement of our church body:

    Jesus said, “In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world” (John 16:33).
    Events of the recent weeks and days surely remind us that Jesus’ words describing the trouble that we will experience in this world are all too true. But especially in times of trouble like these, we will want always to remember the rest of what he told us: He has overcome the world. Our times are still in his hands. He will never leave us or forsake us. No matter how dark the days, he remains our light and salvation; whom (or what) shall we fear?
    Throughout our synod, various areas of ministry, congregations, and schools have already been affected by the current health crisis and have been taking steps to respond. And, as the situation continues to change, many more decisions will likely need to be made in the days and weeks to come.
    The synod has taken various actions in response to government recommendations and mandates, and, after much prayer, other decisions have been made based on common sense and an abundance of caution. To do our part in helping to limit the spread of COVID-19, the synod has placed a moratorium on all non-essential foreign and domestic air travel for synod personnel. Meetings at the WELS Center for Mission and Ministry have been postponed or canceled. Martin Luther College, Luther Preparatory School, and Michigan Lutheran Seminary have canceled in-person classes through the Easter break.
    As the situation changes, WELS congregations will be faced with making difficult decisions about how gospel ministry and congregational worship will be carried out in the coming weeks and months. Here are some important points to consider:

    The Fourth Commandment and other words of Scripture remind us not only to show respect and obedience to governmental authorities, but also to remember them in our prayers as they make decisions to safeguard our nation.
    According to the Fifth Commandment, we have the responsibility not to do anything to hurt or harm our neighbor (or ourselves, for that matter), but to help our neighbor in times of need.
    God’s Word reminds us of the importance and blessing of worship and encourages us to make faithful use of the means of grace.

    How do we apply these biblical principles at a time like this? The Centers for Disease Control has recently recommended that for the next eight weeks, public gatherings should be limited to no more than 50 people. Some local governmental bodies have already gone further, issuing an outright ban on public gatherings of 50 people or more. Restrictions could become even tighter than that in the coming days and weeks. What does this mean?

    While we can make recommendations, the synod does not have the authority to mandate uniform actions by all of our congregations. Rather, congregations will need to make their own responsible decisions about worship gatherings, depending on local circumstances and governmental restrictions.
    Respect for our government, Christian love for our fellow citizens, and proper concern for our own health may require congregations to alter their worship plans. In some places, services may need to be canceled to comply with government mandates. In other places, congregations may decide to offer more service times to keep gatherings below the recommended or mandated limit. Congregations that cancel services are encouraged to find alternate means, such as live streaming worship, sermons, and Bible classes. Congregations that do not have the ability to do this may want to make their members aware of other congregations that do. In some cases, emailed sermons and devotional materials might be considered. Congregations can also equip parents with resources that can be used in family devotions. Our trust in the efficacy of God’s Word reassures us that his Word works even when public worship gatherings are not possible.
    Recognize that this is an extraordinary opportunity to let our light shine in the ways that our congregations and their members serve the people in their communities in Christian love.
    In times such as these, as your local ministry strives to meet these challenges, your continuing and regular offerings are as vital as ever. God’s work must go on.

    We ask you to be patient with us. We are doing the best we can to provide information and guidance in this difficult time. And we ask for your prayers that God will guide us with wisdom and faith as we make what will likely be difficult decisions.
    So it is with God’s church in these last days. We know that Satan is doing all he can to silence the proclamation of God’s saving gospel. We know that our enemy from hell tries to use events like this to drive a wedge between God and his people. But we also know that God can and will cause even this crisis to work together for the good of those who love him. He will use this to drive us to the cross of our Savior, where he gave himself to make us his own. And he will lead us to the open door of the empty tomb, where he demonstrated his complete victory over Satan, sin, and death.
    May our gracious God, our Creator, Redeemer, and Preserver, keep you strong in your faith and confident in his promises.

  14. Mark Hoefert

    The Fourth Commandment and other words of Scripture remind us not only to show respect and obedience to governmental authorities, but also to remember them in our prayers as they make decisions to safeguard our nation.

    Kevin, that was not the tone of your first comment in this thread.

  15. Mar

    Again, Le Roi,your reading comprehension is out of whack.
    I wasn’t making excuses. I was just stating a fact and probable left response.
    And I for dont like all that President Trump has said in this mass hysteria created crisis.

  16. steveegg

    Meanwhile, last call in Milwaukee County bars tomorrow morning will be THE last call for quite a while – every local health department in the county is jointly banning the sale of all food and beverages meant for on-site consumption other than in health care facilities, for catered weddings, and for catered funerals as of 2:01 am tomorrow until further notice.

    I hope this ban lasts through the DNC convention.

  17. Kevin Scheunemann


    We balance that against civil authority hindering proclamation of the Gospel.

    My first comment indicates I will encourage those worshipping, can do it free of fear. The Village President will not be part of civil authority effort to hinder the Gospel. Are we going to arrest people for worshipping? Seriously?

    Lock me up first, then.

    On school issue, it is well settled case law the state has little to no power to give this order to a private school. Both schools are complying out of respect for civil authority. However, I indicated if both schools felt that authority was being abused at some point (like allowing public school to go back in, but not private, for instance), I would support a defying decision on their part because both proclaim the Gospel.

  18. Mar

    Actually, the north side of the County and St. Francis and Cudahy on the south side signed up. So party time in Tosa, West Allis and the rest of the south Side of Milwaukee County.
    Happy St. Patrick’s Day to the common sense communities to Tosa and the south side communities.

  19. steveegg

    There was a lot of media confusion on that, and this time I don’t blame the media.  The first reports at about 9:30 had the city of Milwaukee, Wauwatosa, the North Shore communities (which share a public health officer), South Milwaukee, Cudahy and St. Francis (the last 2 sharing a public health officer) banning sales.  Then by 10, it was all of Milwaukee County, with several media outlets including in their stories a copy of an order to that effect (notably not marked as a draft) with spaces for all of the local health officials to sign (and only 1 space actually signed).  Now it’s just Milwaukee, the North Shore, South Milwaukee, Cudahy and St. Francis…for now.

    It was a lack of common sense over the weekend that led to this round of (hopefully over)reaction.

  20. jjf

    Well, Kev, the Orange One tried the National Day of Prayer and it didn’t stop the virus, the virus that was a hoax just a week ago, we’ve always been at war with Eurasia, so I guess we’ll need to try social distancing.

    Social distancing seems to work.  It’s, you know, science and math.  That darn liberal math!

    Or you can get out your AR to protect your right to worship en masse and, as they say, do your part to immanentize the Eschaton.  “Last days.”

  21. Le Roi du Nord

    Hmmm, private schools want public money, but k says that those private schools don’t need to follow the same rules. Clear cut case of hypocrisy in action.

  22. Kevin Scheunemann


    I have seen some awful godless liberal snark in my time, but that was Joe Biden cringeworthy.

    Do you practice embracing the devil each AM or is it just part of your liberal nature?

  23. Kevin Scheunemann

    Joe…I mean Nord,

    Reading comprehension fails you again.

    Boots and Sabers does not allow pictures to make words easy for you to understand.

  24. jjf

    Embracing the Devil…  hmm, I’ve never heard my IT career described that way.  I like to call it “helping the users.”

    I’ve been helping people deal with the pandemic: government, businesses, health care agencies, and even churches, several already this morning and many over the past week, and here you’ve been busy pushing low-fat ice milk and sugar.

    Yes, even the WELS is embracing and bowing down to science.  Progress!

  25. jednick

    Kevin, I wasn’t aware that you were in a position “to have the Kewaskum Police Department” do anything.

  26. dad29

    even the WELS is embracing and bowing down to science

    I seriously doubt THAT claim.  WELS may be taking the advice of public health specialists and/or following the proclamations made by duly constituted State officers, but “embracing….bowing” to science?



  27. Pat

    WELS bows to no one but God.

  28. Mark Hoefert

    But according to Kevin yesterday, people in the USA do have legal recourse.

    That concept of legal recourse can be applicable to any business or other entity that ignores CDC and/or local health recommendations/mandates. They may put themselves at risk of liability. Your best hedge is to follow along the recommendations and not “go it alone.”

    On April 3rd I am supposed to have a company come in to do a counter install – plumber & carpenter are also already scheduled.  Kitchen designer just got word yesterday that they are completing the measures and installs already scheduled for this week & she will get an update on what happens next week – but it is not looking like “business as usual” next week either. Only things they are scheduling now are new constructions.  Concern is about sending employees into occupied homes where the virus might be present, as well as being accused of having employees of transferring the virus into someone’s home.  Now this is a larger business – they have insurance & legal advice available to guide them.  They don’t want to deal with employees or customers seeking that legal recourse.

  29. Le Roi du Nord


    So what were you trying to say here, ” it is well settled case law the state has little to no power to give this order to a private school” ?

    Are you saying your private schools, that take money from the state, don’t have to obey decisions made to protect the health and welfare of all of the public?  And do those citizens, infected due to your disregard for those decisions, have legal recourse against your schools, or you personally?

  30. jjf

    Dad29, you should know that I was just being mean and trying to trigger Kevin.

  31. Jason

    Evers just changed the ban to 10 people. Scramble!

  32. Kevin Scheunemann


    That might have been the most honest thing you have ever said.

  33. Mar

    A tiny tin horn dictator Evers is.

  34. Pat


    You’re not a Wisconsin resident. Why do you care? I would think you’d be more focused on where you live.

  35. Mar

    I have lots of family in Wisconsin, Uneducated Pat.
    But I do live in a state where, for the most part, are not into mass hysteria. Maybe Wisconsin snowflakes might learn some things from us.

  36. Pat

    So there are no orders in your state for closures?

  37. Mar

    Pat, statewide, just schools.

  38. Pat

    How about Phoenix?

  39. Mar

    Apparently, within the last few hours, Phoenix decided to declare a state of emergency.
    I’m not going to defend it, but if that is what their constituents want, so be it.
    But, fortunately, it is not state wide.

  40. Mar

    Nevada is going to shut down all casinos, which actually make sense as mostly older people go there and the ventilation sucks.
    But it’s going to kill Nevada’s economy.

  41. Pat

    Is the Mayor being a “tin horn dictator” for ordering the closings? And if the Governor, in the next few days, orders it state wide, considered the same?

  42. Mar


  43. Pat

    So in your educated opinion, people should be able to do as they please?

  44. Mar

    Pat, first, why just close down restaurants and bars? If they are serious, why not close down factories, distribution centers, office buildings, universities, non-essential government workers?
    And why make the closing statewide? Are conditions the same in Milwaukee and Madison as compared to Oxford, Ashland, Cambria, New Holstein and other small towns?
    Finally, the mass hysteria this illness has created is just unbeliveable.
    Will many people get the illness, probably but they also get influenza, common colds, chicken pox and other diseases that also kill people with weakened immune systems. This isn’t the Plague or Typhoid or Ebola.
    This reminds of when AIDS came along and the false fear that came with it.

  45. Pat

    What’s your theory for what’s behind all this?

  46. jjf

    Mar, out of all the places you mentioned, which have the most people in the fastest turnover with the most touching and proximity going on?

  47. Mar

    Pat: Mass hysteria and it is the easiest target.
    jjf: Considering most bars and restaurants have regular customers

  48. Mar

    Sorry, the above was posted before I fonished.
    jjf, most restaurants and bars have regular customers, with a few exceptions.
    So, when you close the bars and restaurants, people are not going to stop drinking or eating, so they will go shopping more at grocery, liquor and convenience stores, so your still exposing people at the same rate. And if the people who to bars and restaurants are going to infect more people in the more crowded grocery stores.
    So how is this going to solve the problem?

  49. jjf

    Mar, I’ll take that non-answer as “closing bars and restaurants makes sense.”

  50. Mar

    jjf, reading comprehension a problem again this morning?
    The people who go to bars and restaurants are now going into more crowded areas of grocery stores and a various other stores. They are still going to spread the illness, but now, in more crowded places.
    You think the people who go to bars and restaurants are going to stop eating and drinking?
    I hope you read this slowly so you may comprehend what I wrote and show me where I am wrong.

  51. MjM

    Mar makes a point: “... but they also get influenza,..”

    CDC influenza estimates Oct 1, 2019 – March 7,  2020:

    Illnesses   36,000,000 – 51,000,000

    Medical visits  17,000,000 – 24,000,000

    Hospitalizations 370,000 – 640,000

    Deaths  22,000 – 55,000

    Not a peep from brain dead Phony nEvers when the “less than 10 year old” WI child died of influenza the first week of January in the midst of one of the worst flu seasons on record.

    And why is Phony nEvers hiding WI 2019-2020 flu season actual numbers?  Where are they?



  52. jjf

    Mar, the point is – everyone needs to stop doing that, in order to keep the hospitals from being overwhelmed.

    So stop arguing that people need to be able to go to bars and restaurants?  Maybe take-out is all you get for a while.

    Could have a 9% death rate for people over 80 who get it, and a good 80% of us are expected to get it in the next 18 months.  What’s that going to do to Phoenix?

  53. Kevin Scheunemann


    If it makes you feel better I was more than happy to shut dining room down and go to lobby take out/cake sales and drive-thru at my 2 locations.

    I will have a problem if we cannot do drive-thru or delivery.


  54. Pat

    In you’re opinion, Mar, what actions should the US be taking?

  55. Mar

    jjf, as I stated before, why single out bars, restaurants, churches while other places are allowed to operate? Factories, day care centers, office buildings, non-essential government employees.
    And why do it statewide? If you want to do it in the counties that are affected, fine but what about rural areas that have not been exposed?
    As far as the hospital bed argument, that is just a theory that there maybe shortages. Most places have the beds and if not, the excess patients can be transferred to other facilities such as hospitals in other cities, military hospitals, rehab hospitals or bring in the military and have field hospitals.
    As far as Phoenix, it is a younger city with a lit of high tech, so it is not as vulnerable as you may think.

  56. Mar

    Pat: I think the Feds are doing what they have to do. They are working hard on a vaccine and cure. They are going to try help those who need help and they are letting local governments make the local decisions.

  57. jjf

    Mar, can you imagine making the decision about this?

    Would you make a decision that helps, but that isn’t perfect?  If the perfect the enemy of the good?  Obviously it would be great from the standpoint of the spread of the infection if everyone stayed in their homes and didn’t go to work, but it wouldn’t be great for our economy.  Bars and restaurants are indeed part of the economy, yes.  But maybe that kind of interaction is terrible when it comes to the rapid spread.

    “Just a theory.”  Your beliefs about the availability of beds and supplies do not seem to align with the beliefs of those actually working in health care.  Can you point to someone who works in health care who thinks everything’s going to be OK?

  58. Mar

    jjf, I worked in hospitals and when I was in the Air Force I worked as a medic.
    I also worked in EMS and regular hospitals.
    So yeah, I know what I am talking about.
    Too bad you don’t.
    But keep on doing your Chicken Little impression, it’s comical.

  59. jjf

    I’m not questioning any experience you’ve had.  Show me someone in health care now who says it’s going to be OK.

  60. dad29

    There are quite a few skeptics, Jiffster.  Remember that the projections can easily be ‘flawed’ by running the geometric-increase timeline longer–or shorter.  And the geometric-increase line is extrapolated by the experience of other countries.

    But China and Italy are NOT good measuring sticks.

    We are waaaaaayyyyy to early in the curve to close down 10% of the economy, which is what’s happened with restaurants, bars, shopping centers, casinos, and all other entertainment/leisure.

    Evers better pray every night that this disease actually DOES ramp up fast.  There are a lot of small-biz owners who will be BK in 180 days or less due to his actions, and they may not “want him in their neighborhood”.  That’s before you count all the employees who will be BK, too.  Think they’ll be in love with that talking kohlrabi?

  61. jjf

    So which country is the “good” measuring stick and why?

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