Boots & Sabers

The blogging will continue until morale improves...

Owen

Everything but tech support.
}

2248, 29 Jun 21

New York’s Largest Test Case for Ranked Choice Voting Sows Confusion and Doubt

Please don’t bring this to Wisconsin. How can voters trust the results when officials are counting ballots in the back room for weeks?

Election officials in New York City admitted on Tuesday night that 135,000 test ballots in the race for mayor had been mistakenly counted as real ones.

 

The discovery came after mayoral election frontrunner Eric Adams questioned the ranked-choice results after his lead in the Democratic primary went down to a mere two points over rival Kathryn Garcia.

 

After 11 rounds of ranked-choice vote tallying Adams, a former police officer and Brooklyn borough president, was declared to be leading former Sanitation Commissioner Kathryn Garcia 51.1 per cent to 48.9 per cent.

 

The difference was 15,908 votes, without counting absentee ballots, the officials said.

 

Yet hours later, on Tuesday n ight, the board released a statement, explaining that it had failed to remove sample ballot images used to test its ranked-choice voting software. When the board ran the program, it counted ‘both test and election night results, producing approximately 135,000 additional records,’ the statement said.

 

The ranked-choice numbers, it said, would be tabulated again.

 

They said on Tuesday afternoon that 941,832 votes have been tallied and 124,000 absentee ballots remain to be counted.

 

The first absentee ballots results are not expected to be tallied until July 6.

}

2248, 29 June 2021

47 Comments

  1. Mar

    Hmmm, wondering this happened in another election elsewhere and maybe the 2020 election?

  2. Mike

    The largest test case for ranked choice voting was the California senatorial election where Republicans were completely shut out of the general election.
    Voting isn’t just about electing people, it is about competing philosophies of government.

  3. Le Roi du Nord

    RCV is used in varying degrees in a number of jurisdictions across the country, including red places like AL, GA, LA, MS, , SC, ME, and soon AK.

    Certainly voting is about competing philosophies, but if the philosophy only appeals to a small fraction of the voters the CA result is what you get.

  4. Jason

    Wait, we can’t rely on the average American to be able to procure a photo ID to vote. We can’t rely on them to understand the Almond Milk does not come from a cow. We can’t rely on them to understand that beer is plant-based….

    Yet we expect that they understand the complexities of RCV? Hypocrisy abounds.

  5. jsr

    “Election officials in New York City admitted on Tuesday night that 135,000 test ballots in the race for mayor had been mistakenly counted as real ones.”

    This isn’t an RCV problem. This is a simple mistake on the part of the election officials. And this mistake could have happened in a non-RCV election.

    There are plenty of good arguments against RCV. This isn’t one of them. Don’t blame RCV for simple mistakes made by incompetent election officials, unless you want people to think that you don’t have any good arguments.

  6. Jason

    JSR, sorry, you missed this…

    >that it had failed to remove sample ballot images used to test its ranked-choice voting software.

    Explain to me how if they were not using RCV, they would have made the mistake while testing RCV software? Human error – yes. Caused by the added complexity of RCV – absolutely.

  7. steveegg

    Mike, that’s a different system – a jungle primary where there is no separate party primaries and the top 2 vote-getters move on to a general election. It essentially is the same as the non-partisan primary we’re familiar with.

    Just wait until the simultaneous two-part recall election of governor Gavin Newsom (D?) in California happens. The first part is whether the target is to be recalled, while the second is a plurality-wins election of who would replace the target should the recall in the first part is successful, with even those who vote to retain Newsom getting to vote on his potential replacement (something enough Dems forgot about in 2002 when Grey Davis was recalled). The shenanigans are already starting, with the Rats trying to move up the election timetable to help Newsom, and Newsom trying to void a law he signed a mere month before the extended recall effort began and then forgot about a month later that would, if not voided, prevent him from calling himself a Rat on the recall ballot.

  8. Jason

    Leroy, were is RCV used in AL, GA, LA, MS, SC? I haven’t found any record if it being used anywhere in those states.

    Of the data I’ve found, 1 county (BLUE) uses it, 1 state uses it (BLUE), and 26 Cities use it (BLUE).. The exception is two RED cities in Utah, which have a modified version of RCV.

    Why lie about this? Do you want people to think you don’t have any good arguments?

  9. MjM

    The fun part is how the “test” votes changed the outcome towards the preferred (by the NYT, Daily News, and DeBlasio’s cabal) candidate, a get-rid-of-cars e-wacko.

    Wondering: They were testing what, exactly?

  10. Jason

    >The fun part is how the “test” votes changed the outcome towards the preferred (by the NYT, Daily News, and DeBlasio’s cabal) candidate, a get-rid-of-cars e-wacko.

    Careful where you say that MJM…. thoughts like that can get you deplatformed! :)

  11. Le Roi du Nord

    j:

    A smart guy like you should have no problem finding sources showing that a number of jurisdictions use RCV to varying degrees. It took me a matter of seconds to find 3 sources, and there were more on the list. Try harder.

  12. Mar

    Should say: took me only a few minutes to find the information that shows Lying Boy Le Roi was lying again.

  13. Jason

    Leroy, back it up. Ironically it’ll take you less time to paste the link than it took you to type that insulting excuse post. Come on big guy, you’re always bragging about how superior you are, what could you possibly be afraid of?

    BTW, backing out of being asked for a source leads people to think you don’t have any good arguments.

  14. jsr

    Jason
    “Explain to me how if they were not using RCV, they would have made the mistake while testing RCV software? Human error – yes. Caused by the added complexity of RCV – absolutely.”

    Because they would have run the same sort of test in a non-RCV election to make sure the ballot counting worked correctly. The only difference would have been that non-RCV test ballots would have been counted using non-RCV ballot counting software.

    The mistake was not clearing the machines after the test count. That same mistake could just as easily been made after testing for a non-RCV election.

  15. jsr

    Wisconsin requires exactly this sort of testing of ballot counting machines before every election.

    From the Wisconsin Election Commission web site:

    5. Election Day Zero-Count Requirement
    a. Before any ballots on Election Day are cast on the electronic voting
    equipment, the election officials shall witness a test of the tabulation
    component by engaging the printing mechanism and securing a
    printed result showing a zero count for every candidate and
    referendum.
    b. The zero-count printout should not be separated from the remainder of
    the roll. Leave the printout attached to the roll.

    Election Day Manual
    September 2020
    Page 23
    https://elections.wi.gov/sites/elections.wi.gov/files/2020-11/Election%20Day%20Manual%20%282020-09%29.pdf

    Logic and Accuracy Test: a public test of automatic tabulating equipment to ascertain that it
    will correctly count votes for all offices and all measures. Testing must be conducted not earlier
    than 10 days before Election Day, and public notice is required at least 48 hours in advance of
    the test. The test must be conducted by processing a test deck for each candidate and on each
    referendum. An errorless count must be made before the automatic tabulating equipment can be
    approved for use in the election.

    Election Day Manual
    September 2020
    Page 144
    https://elections.wi.gov/sites/elections.wi.gov/files/2020-11/Election%20Day%20Manual%20%282020-09%29.pdf

    Test Deck: a pre-audited group of ballots marked to record a predetermined number of valid
    votes for each candidate and on each referendum. The test deck is used to ensure that electronic
    voting equipment is reliable and accurate.

    Election Day Manual
    September 2020
    Page 148
    https://elections.wi.gov/sites/elections.wi.gov/files/2020-11/Election%20Day%20Manual%20%282020-09%29.pdf

  16. jsr

    Wisconsin requires exactly this sort of testing of ballot counting machines before every election.

    From the Wisconsin Election Commission web site:

    5. Election Day Zero-Count Requirement
    a. Before any ballots on Election Day are cast on the electronic voting
    equipment, the election officials shall witness a test of the tabulation
    component by engaging the printing mechanism and securing a
    printed result showing a zero count for every candidate and
    referendum.
    b. The zero-count printout should not be separated from the remainder of
    the roll. Leave the printout attached to the roll.

    Election Day Manual
    September 2020
    Page 23

    Logic and Accuracy Test: a public test of automatic tabulating equipment to ascertain that it
    will correctly count votes for all offices and all measures. Testing must be conducted not earlier
    than 10 days before Election Day, and public notice is required at least 48 hours in advance of
    the test. The test must be conducted by processing a test deck for each candidate and on each
    referendum. An errorless count must be made before the automatic tabulating equipment can be
    approved for use in the election.

    Election Day Manual
    September 2020
    Page 144

    Test Deck: a pre-audited group of ballots marked to record a predetermined number of valid
    votes for each candidate and on each referendum. The test deck is used to ensure that electronic
    voting equipment is reliable and accurate.

    Election Day Manual
    September 2020
    Page 148

  17. dad29

    Only 135,000 stuffers?

    Little League. Georgia had about 125,000 “mistakes.”

  18. Le Roi du Nord

    j:

    If you are too lazy to do your own research, you are no doubt far too lazy to read what I would provide. All you and mar want to do is whine, snivel, and cast blame on others. But at least you can do those tasks unassisted.

  19. Le Roi du Nord

    mar:

    Looks like you didn’t even read what you posted. Explain what the lie is? Or is that too much work as well?

  20. Jason

    Leroy, I did my research and it contradicts what you claim. If you can’t back your claims up then you are fact free…. again. Stop acting like you could teach me something, you can’t. Unless it’s how to lose as badly as you just did.

  21. Le Roi du Nord

    j:

    Well, you didn’t look very hard, or are just bs-ing again. I just looked again and found that, “RCV is used in varying degrees in a number of jurisdictions across the country, including red places like AL, GA, LA, MS, , SC, ME, and soon AK” to still be the case. Whine, snivel, and blame some more. You are certainly experienced.

  22. Jason

    Well Leroy, since you’re such a bitch, I did some more research… here’s what I found on Wikipedia (lame)

    “Ranked-choice voting ballots are used by all overseas voters in federal elections that might have a runoff election: Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi and South Carolina.”

    That is the only place I can find that mentions those states and RCV – and note it’s only for overseas voters in federal elections that might have a runoff…. I see why you don’t want to source it. Shame on you, intellectually dishonest about the context of what you’re saying… YOu’re still fact free to this point in time.

    Stop acting like you could teach me something, you can’t. Unless it’s how to lose as badly as you just did.

  23. Le Roi du Nord

    Marvelous, j, you proved me correct, ““RCV is used in varying degrees…”, and made yourself look foolish in the process. You hit the daily double !

  24. Jason

    Sorry, but a single use case hardly supports your intent here. The fact that you so feebly attempted to weave those jurisdictions using a single use case of RSV into the political parties with this ” … including red places like …” shows all that you were trolling like a cunt.

    Oh, and since you think you’re right, one of those “Red” states you listed, you’re wrong about. Lets see if you can figure that out… Be a peach and do more homework so you’re not wrong all the time.

    Stop acting like you could teach me something, you can’t. Unless it’s how to lose as badly as you just did, AGAIN.

  25. Le Roi du Nord

    You are correct, I can’t teach you anything , because you are incapable of learning. And now you are making excuses. Gotta love it.

  26. Mar

    “small fraction of the voters the CA result is what you get.”
    Huh?
    The story was about NYC.
    Then the states you mentioned are for minor races and seems like they are experimental, and they are testing it.
    So, yeah, you lied.

  27. Le Roi du Nord

    mar:

    And I was responding to a comment from Mike regarding the CA senatorial election. You really should read before you approach the keyboard.

    “Minor races”, “experimental “. Like a Senate seat is “minor”. Tell that to Mitch.

  28. Mike

    “Certainly voting is about competing philosophies, but if the philosophy only appeals to a small fraction of the voters the CA result is what you get.”

    The Republican party is a “small fraction of the voters”?

  29. Le Roi du Nord

    Mike:

    Apparently small enough in the CA example you referenced to get completely shut out.

  30. dad29

    intellectually dishonest

    Democrat playbook.

  31. Mar

    “And I was responding to a comment from Mike regarding the CA senatorial election. You really should read before you approach the keyboard.”
    When you respond to someone, you use their name. That’s writing 101. It’s taught in elementary, junior and high school. You must have missed those years of education.
    And you totally misunderstood what Mike was saying. Which is understandable since you lack the education to understand the most most basic things.

  32. Le Roi du Nord

    mar:

    I did, (Mike @7:57, mar @ 7:22), or can’t you read?

  33. Mar

    Yeah, after I mentioned , you bozo.
    Keep that clown nose on. It keeps whatever brain matter you have from escaping through your nose.

  34. Le Roi du Nord

    No mar prior to you mentioning anything. Can’t you tell time , either?

  35. Mar

    I posted at 3:54 AM(1:54 my time an hour after I got off of work).
    You posted 7:22 and 7:57 this morning or about 3-4 hours after I posted.
    So, just another lie by Lying Le Roi, the Pervert Boy.

  36. Le Roi du Nord

    mar:

    Your 3:54 AM comment was about a different subject ( whining about the difference between CA and NYC ) ,than your 11:17 AM post whining about using names when addressing folks. Both were incorrect, BTW.

    So now we all know you can’t read, nor tell what time it is. Nor do you follow your own “rules”.

    A whole day of epic fails.

  37. Mar

    Nice try but you still lied, Lying Le Roi.
    Is the institution letting you stay late to watch the ball game?

  38. Le Roi du Nord

    What is the lie, mar?

    Both the Bucks and Brewers are over, both won.

  39. Mar

    So, you’re back using that dumbass response?
    Pathetic, just pathetic.

  40. Le Roi du Nord

    It was a question, mar. And then a statement of fact.

    And you are once again blaming others for your shortcomings.

    You are certainly consistent.

  41. Mar

    Lying Le Roi, that’s your typical response when you are caught lying.
    You are far too predictable, it’s always the same response.
    Wash, rinse repeat. You must mumble that all day long when you are sitting in the day lounge at the Home of the Incureable Liars.

  42. Le Roi du Nord

    So mar, you won’t point out what the alleged “ lie” is, right? You just want everybody to believe you, regardless of the facts, right? Or are you assuming the rest of the world is as unconnected with reality as you are?

    And note that those are questions, ( you know , words followed by this. ?), so you can’t call them lies.

  43. Mar

    And another oldie but goodie by Lying Boy Le Roi.
    Another old an tired response.
    Even after when I pointed out the lie previously.
    They really need to up your meds there at the home.

  44. Le Roi du Nord

    Got it, mar. You are just making this all up as you go.

  45. Mar

    And another unoriginal repeating post by Lying Boy Le Roi, after caught lying.
    Come on, man, come with something new. You’re old stuff is boring.
    But then Senile Joe and the fake doctor Fauci are your heros and they come with the same kind of bullcrap that you do. And both play the victim card like you do.

  46. Mar

    Sadly, Lying Boy Pervert Boy Le Roi didn’t even have to lie.
    But no, he had to make a big performance and lie and lie and lie.
    Le Roi’s life must really suck and looking for so much attention to himself that he needs attention, though he thrives in the negative reinforcement he gets here.
    Paul is right, Pervert Boy Lying Le Roi, is just a punching bag.

Pin It on Pinterest