Wisconsin’s Anti-Business Culture
Huh… I thought that Wisconsin’s excessive tax burden was to pay for higher quality government services.
How hard it is to do business in Wisconsin? Let me count the ways …
So, I bought this little Oil & Gas company in Texas this month, several million in revenue added to the bottom line and 11 new employees, nothing major.
Well, let me assert this point. It was made a whole hell of a lot easier by the State of Texas and the cities of Dallas, Houston and San Antonio. The folks in their offices of Business Development and others went above and beyond anything I have ever encountered in the state of Wisconsin. They were courteous, they were willing to assist with needs based on how we wanted to handle the purchase, how to keep jobs, how to license, how to deal with a number of layoffs. They even paid for lunch in Houston that I asked them to come to in order to drill into more questions.Now, compare that to the hassles of no call backs, standing in lines with an uneducated person who felt I was bothering her and asking too many questions before she was to go on her cigarette break, (yes, she asked me to hurry she needed a ciggy break!)
So once she went on her break, I was asked questions rather than being the question asker, and all the new man wanted to know was if the new company was going to funnel monies into the current company and how much? (His quote, “Milwaukee needs to tax you on that you know!") Milwaukee needs to tax me? Are you nuts? Milwaukee needs to tax me?
So, this is the BS that I had to face for three weeks out of my life, and I am sure no one from city hall is going to give me those three weeks back, so no, the company is purchased but it is going to stay in Texas - every last cent until I retire or sell it, and then I will be in another state with no state taxes or even the scent of a universal health care program.
You know, what Texas’ bureaucrats did for this businessman didn’t cost them a dime more than the crappy service that Wisconsin gave to him. It’s all about the mindset.
LOL. Texas’ corporate welfare was better than ours.
I agree with the central message of this piece, but it’s tone appears to be purposeful in seeking to anger the left instead of explaining what Texas did better and why in a grown up manner, so that those of us who aren’t partisan hacks can get some good policy ideas. Complaining that we didn’t buy lunch for him? Give me a break.
What would really make this post is a picture of that crazy Texan from the Simpsons.
Posted by on August 30, 2007 at 2159 hrsHuh. I don’t see in the story where Texas gave this guy any corporate welfare except for a lunch. Where are you getting that?
It reads to me more like a rant from a guy who’s a bit pissed off than anything designed to anger any particular group of people - like a rant from a guy who just returned from the DMV (or DPS in Texas).
Posted by Owen on August 30, 2007 at 2214 hrsHis description is so incoherent, I don’t think we can have a straight discussion about he claims happened to him. His other posts seem no better. But I’ll take it on faith that his picture and caption are correct, so the rest of the article must be OK.
Did he have a choice between buying a company in Wisconsin or in Texas? Who did he talk to in Wisconsin and what did he want from them?
Posted by John Foust on August 30, 2007 at 2249 hrsWell, there aren’t a lot of oil companies in Wisconsin
Posted by Owen on August 30, 2007 at 2254 hrs
We certainly have oil and gas companies. No drilling, but plenty of selling.
I’m always puzzled when I hear such tales from such supposedly high-power execs or business owners. If one of his subordinates said “I went to City Hall looking for X but then this whiny woman wouldn’t talk to me nicely and then she wanted a cigarette...” he’d whup them.
Why do such muckety-mucks become cowed by the mighty bureaucracy? If the first two doors say “no,” then keep knocking if you think someone has what you want. Presumably he wouldn’t give up in private business against a tough prospect; why did he give up so easily at whatever government office he went to?
Sure, there are some out there who’d like every government office to serve them coffee and a smile like the Waffle House, but heaven knows someone else would complain about the cost of being so nice.
Heaven forbid he tell us where he went and what he was asking for - then we’d be able to sanity-check his story. Three weeks doing what? Waiting for a return phone call? “You’re fired.”
So why is an SAP software company buying an oil-and-gas company? “Nothing major,” he says, like the opening line of a joke about two rich guys talking about the size of their yachts.
Oh, he’s Jimmy Carter’s nephew, and among others, he’s got contracts with the Navy.
Posted by John Foust on August 30, 2007 at 2332 hrsLet’s see. After a minute or two of googling, we can find out that Carter is is based n Hales Corners, not Milwaukee. That he’s from the South and has had a presence there for a long time. That his company is five years old, and already in its second year, he was planning to open new offices in D.C. and San Francisco, in addition to employees already then in Atlanta, Denver, Philadelphia, and Cleveland. And that to his 26 employees then, he planned to add about 20 more.
And five of those were to be in Milwaukee—or near Milwaukee, whichever. Five.
No excuse for frustrations he encountered, but—does he outweigh the head of NML, with more than 5,000 employes, who said his firm likes it here just fine? And as the oldest and richest firm in the state, it must be doing something right by staying here.
Posted by on August 31, 2007 at 0053 hrsbut—does he outweigh the head of NML, with more than 5,000 employes, who said his firm likes it here just fine? And as the oldest and richest firm in the state, it must be doing something right by staying here.
Yes Kay I think he does. He wanted to LOCATE here, NML has BEEN here. HUGE DIFFERENCE!
See Kay, without small Business, there is no BIG business. Think about that for a second.
If Wisconsin treats, a small business wanting to relocate here that shabbily you don’t think word gets around in the business community?
You and John aren’t one of those people who believes that “they wouldn’t have been the right kind of jobs anyway?” are you?
Posted by on August 31, 2007 at 0526 hrsThe lack of common courtesy by the state’s employee stands out in my mind.
Posted by Kate on August 31, 2007 at 0828 hrsCheaney, you’re jumping. I said nothing about the “right kind of jobs.” No, CCI was already here, he didn’t want to relocate here.
I defy anyone to read his opinion piece and tell me which branch of Wisconsin government he visited, and why.
Posted by John Foust on August 31, 2007 at 0901 hrsNo John, outside of the verbal jibe about ‘the right kind of jobs’ Cheaney was not jumping, the exec ‘is/was’ interested in openning five new offices in Wisconsin. He could open them anywhere.
Yes your petty point of which branch of Government is unanswerably correct, but...so what? The man was comparing Government services. Unless you are suggesting this is some sort of righty conspiracy to diss Wisconsin Government workers, you take it on faith that a guy who can afford to buy the odd oil company in Texas is comparing SIMILAR services when comparing how two different state Governments treated him. If we all thought this was a purely politically motivated stunt story, you make perfect sense. Please forgive many of us if we just think your denigration of the story is irrevlevant paranoia.
Posted by on August 31, 2007 at 0931 hrsThis PR says he’s Carter’s nephew and his middle initial is ‘M’, but this piece says he was 34 in 2004, so unless he’s actually named Marle and one of Billy Carter’s kids, I don’t quite get it.
Yes, when I read his PR out there on the web, it’s cheese-a-licious, but I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt. Where did you see that he’s planning to open five offices in Wisconsin? This 2005 story that says he wants to add five employees in Wisconsin is the closest I found.
I feel free to denigrate the story because it has no detail. It barely rises to the level of anecdote. Maybe someday if we water it, it could grow from slurred bar-room story to become a full-fledged puff piece.
Yes, if we are to be incensed by the manners of those with cushy government jobs and their poor attitude toward the cultivation of business, I think we should at least have a few facts to help understand what it was he wanted, where he was trying to get it, and what it has to do with improving Wisconsin’s business climate. Because if we want to make it better, perhaps we should know what to tweak or dismantle. Fair enough? If we had some facts, we could become part of the reality-based community.
But as I said, the caption and the picture don’t contain any obvious flaws, so the article can expected to be Gospel by any rational consumer of the MSM.
And who could question the integrity and editorial judgment of the Small Business Times? I mean, they even have real lobbyists and shills writing columns for them who are capable of cut-and-pasting Astroturf from state to state, and who are good enough to be paid-off by AT+T!
You’re right, though, with the oil-and-gas angle, there are humor possibilities for linking this to Billy Carter, Libyans and Billygate.
Posted by John Foust on August 31, 2007 at 1026 hrsPlease don’t infer that you shouldn’t denigrate at your leisure, they are often true and usually entertaining. LOL
Posted by on August 31, 2007 at 1039 hrsMichael, please reply re the reply to you above, clarifying (again) that the guy already is based here—in Hales Corners, where he has been based for many years, and that he was on record as having planned not five new offices here but five new employees.
I’ve searched again to find anything supporting your statements that he was not already locally based and that he was planning five new offices here, and I find nothing on those points.
So please tell us the search terms that you used to find the sources that contradict the ones that I found by doing so. Thanks.
Posted by on August 31, 2007 at 1307 hrsRereading—sorry, Michael, part of the above is for tuerqas to answer.
Posted by on August 31, 2007 at 1310 hrsSorry Kay, JF, I misread that.
Posted by on August 31, 2007 at 1313 hrsWow did TosaVoter ever come out of left field on this one!
I just wonder what all the comments are about. The guy is set up in WI and he just got set up in TX and he’s talking about the difference in service levels, right? So what’s all this? I saw that loud and clear - in WI he pays lots of taxes and gets deplorable service. Not suprising at all!
But again the source gets attacked by John instead of dealing with the point raised. Do you do anything but disagree John?
Posted by on August 31, 2007 at 1327 hrsThank you PS, that is really all I meant.
Posted by on August 31, 2007 at 1351 hrsI’m pointing out that there are no facts to chew on in this story. We have little idea of where he was or what he was seeking.
There is no “point” raised unless you’d like to whine about the person’s poor manners or cigarette break - completely without context of who it was - in line with him, or behind the counter? - what position they held, or where they work. He obliquely mentions City Hall as the eater of his three weeks, so that’s a clue.
There could be plenty of facts for us to discuss. We don’t have any, because Carter apparently wanted to leave them out. For example, does anyone have any idea of what sort of tax he’s talking about? Who said it was “lots”? He didn’t say that. The only tax I’ve ever paid to a big city’s City Hall is sales tax on trade show revenue.
He mentions the gross revenues of the company he’s buying, but can’t find the words to describe what he wanted from Wisconsin’s bureaucrats. Buying a company in Texas is comparable to him buying what in Wisconsin? He’s not even making a comparison. He’s just saying we suck.
But have no fear, “It’s all about the mindset.” Asking for facts is “attacking the source.”
Posted by John Foust on August 31, 2007 at 1356 hrsLOL, you are getting funny John. We can’t infer anything because he didn’t say explicitly just what it was he wanted from the state of Wisconsin.
He points out that the state employees in Texas did whatever they could to help him. He contrasts that with his experience in Wisconsin - logically, with the state employee he went to ask his questions of?
I mean, can you seriously read:
.....asking too many questions because she wanted to go on a cigarette break.....
And not figure out that it’s a state employee? How about some critical thinking skills?
Would a person just standing in line need to take a cigarette break?
Would he be asking questions to another person in line?
And that doesn’t cover your line about the taxes. Does he REALLY need to point out what tax is too high in the state of Wisconsin for you?
Posted by on August 31, 2007 at 1456 hrsRecalling Owen’s post about the level of debate on this blog as of late, I am fully sure that someone (probably Dohnal) will probably crawl out of the woodwork and dismiss what I have to say entirely because I am a current or former employee of the State of Wisconsin.
And with that said, I think the point some here are trying to argue is that this is one disgruntled person’s account of a interaction with a state employee. Now, I’ve heard more than enough constituent tales for one lifetime. Based on that, what I can tell you is that when a constituent calls a legislative office to complain about a state agency, you often learn by contacting the agency that the constituent selectively omits a lot of important details. What you get from the constituent is one very biased side of the story, and the truth often ends up being somewhere in the middle.
Carter provides no dates, no names, no real details. It’s just a lot of squawking and bitching about his less-than-regal treatment.
First off, his characterization of the state employee as “uneducated” without any knowledge of that employee’s background whatsoever probably shows what kind of person Carter is. His whole column (dare I call it that, it’s more like a childish rant) reeks of condescension. I wonder if he approaches his own employees with that kind of attitude?
There are lots of bright, talented people in the private sector. There are also a lot of morons and jackasses too. The talent pool in the private sector isn’t much different than the public sector. Neither is the behavior.
Is there a lesson for state government to learn in all of this? Well, sure. Customer service skills are important. Being helpful and polite is an asset, even if it’s fake. But frankly, I think this article says way more about Carter as a person than it does about the state.
If this is how he responds to a negative situation, I think it’s safe to say that his conflict resolution skills could use some work.
Posted by Recess Supervisor on August 31, 2007 at 1518 hrsPS, I’m not following some of your “critical thinking.” He says it’s about Milwaukee taxes and that he was in City Hall, so to you that says it’s a state employee? How do you get that? (Or is that just more unfounded criticism?)
Btw, I’m still fascinated by the statement in coverage of Carter that he’s the past president’s nephew—although as Foust notes, it seems ambiguous. I couldn’t find more. Anyone else do so?
Posted by on August 31, 2007 at 1545 hrsI hear RS and JF and there are definitely elements of simple whining in the article, but has it occurred to you that maybe he was asked not to give specifics or that he chose not to based on the possibility that his current question(s) have not yet been answered or that he will be working with those specific offices again in the future? A nameless complaint may get some attention where it is needed from an office head. A public dressing down of specific people/offices may get even worse service for him the next time.
Posted by on August 31, 2007 at 1554 hrsHe may or may not be one, but good businessmen do not burn any bridges.
Posted by on August 31, 2007 at 1556 hrsLet’s fisk his spare assertions: 1. He bought a specific company.
2. The State of Texas and the cities of Dallas, Houston and San Antonio were courteous and helpful. Heaven knows free-market businesses can’t survive without the help of government in routine matters such as “how we wanted to handle the purchase, how to keep jobs… how to deal with layoffs.” They bought him lunch. Why three cities, 200-300 miles apart? Compared to Milwaukee, each is larger, no?
3. In Wisconsin, he has a bad experience in City Hall. The clerk seems stupid and addicted to nicotine. Unlike Texas, he doesn’t say a word about what he wanted, and we presume she didn’t want to buy him lunch or even offer him a cig. Cuz it would’ve been better if they bought him lunch when he ordered them to go to lunch, like he did in Texas. He uses the plural “lines” but makes it sound like Fawlty Towers, where the same person keeps showing up behind the counter wearing different hats. Waiting in line is sure a drag compared to going out to lunch. Wait, there’s a new man, and all he has is questions, and that makes him sad because it’s about taxes.
4. All this BS “took three weeks” off his life. He wants them back.
5. We should be happy that companies like his stay here with all this “taxing bull” because he’d rather be in Atlanta or Texas. Well, actually, he’s already got offices in Atlanta and Texas, so maybe all he needs is a little paperwork to shuffle his corporate ownership, because all he wants to find is a place without taxes or the threat of universal health coverage.
Kay - Jimmy had four kids, Billy had six, Ruth four, Gloria one (deceased). Chris looks like Billy, no?
So TUERQAS, he had all these bad experiences, but it’s a secret? He writes in SBT, he talks to Future 50, but it’s a secret? I knew non-disclosures were going to come up at some point. And he can’t burn bridges because they’re not going to remember that Billy Carter’s son showed up regularly for three weeks.
RS - always a pleasure. Carter doesn’t say he had troubles at the state level. We might infer he had these troubles at Milwaukee City Hall.
Posted by John Foust on August 31, 2007 at 1649 hrsEver heard this in Wisconsin? “the corporations are not paying their fair share”. What city turns down a mega “Wal-Mart and brags about it? Tommy pulled all stops out to get the distribution center up north.
Posted by on August 31, 2007 at 2026 hrs
I and 1500 pharmacists have a lawsuit against Wal-Mart, but they really would help the city of Milwauke, giving decent jobs with benefits.
Listen to the rhetoric of the liberals, wonder why our growth is at the bottom of the barrel?
The Doyle budget adds more welfare, the senate democrats health plan would draw illegals from across the midwest and also anyone without insurance that has medical problems. The Assembly budget aims to create wealth.
What is it to be; “creation of wealth or more welfare?
Corporations must pay 40% of their profits in wisconsin. guess what they pay in Ireland? 12.5%. Germany 29%.
Wonder why we are going backwards?
Where do the public employees have salaries, benefits, pensions and vacations the envy of the private sector?Ah Donhal,
Bringinging sensibility and rational thought to the scene.
I and 1500 pharmacists have a lawsuit against Wal-Mart, but they really would help the city of Milwauke, giving decent jobs with benefits.
And what might be this lawsuit concerned with given that WalMart is such a White Knight?
Posted by on August 31, 2007 at 2111 hrsMy company has moved a number of jobs to Chicago in recent years from Wisconsin. I wish it hadn’t happened, but there is an awful lot of money being tossed out by the politico’s down there. The response we get from the city of Milwaukee when seeking aid/etc. is second rate.
Milwaukee (and Wisconsin) was built on manufacturing during the last century. In the struggle of management versus labor, we had a ton of “labor” in this city. They and their children have gone on to inheirit government positions. Their mindset is not one of entrepreneurship nor business development. Their mindset is one of programs, bureacracy and handouts. The benevolent capitalism/socialism of Frank Ziedler was fine 50-years ago when we could afford it. Now that our manufacturing base had been destroyed by national and world competition, we haven’t been able to shed that socialist-worker mindset. But we just can’t afford that socialist mindset anymore. That’s what is killing this State right now.
Part of the reason we are still doing ok financially is that the manufacturing barons built up a ton wealth that these people’s second and third generations are living off of in the area and paying taxes on. But they aren’t creating new jobs and industries. As that inheirited wealth dissapates over time, we’ve got to figure out some way to create new high paying jobs in this State.
BTW, the NML President said he likes Milwaukee.....but then said that if starting the business from scratch, he probably wouldn’t locate here.
Posted by on August 31, 2007 at 2127 hrsPart of the reason we are still doing ok financially is that the manufacturing barons built up a ton wealth that these people’s second and third generations are living off of in the area and paying taxes on.
Hey Steve,
Got any data to back this up?
Did not realize how these heirs make no effort to minimize their tax burden by moving to Nevada for instance.
Posted by on August 31, 2007 at 2157 hrsCorporations must pay 40% of their profits in wisconsin. guess what they pay in Ireland? 12.5%. Germany 29%.
Ah Donhal, a glimmer of half truth once again.
What might be the personal tax rates in Germany for instance?
Posted by on August 31, 2007 at 2211 hrsAh, Steve, you’re right—I hadn’t read the context of the NML president’s quote before, but you sent me searching for it.
But then maybe you missed the rest, too, that tells us that the slash-and-burn Assembly budget for higher education here is not a budget conductive to getting businesses to move here:
“. . . if the company were relocating today, Milwaukee wouldn’t be its choice. He cited the lack of college graduates, for example, as a detriment to the area’s hope of attracting new companies.
“Zore said he didn’t mean the company is . . . regretting it is located here. His intention, he said, was to spur the region to identify things that detract ‘to see if we can address them and fix them’ - part of his role as a civic leader.
“Milwaukee is a wonderful place, and we’ve been here for 150 years. For Northwestern Mutual and most businesses, it’s a wonderful and a great place to do business,” Zore said. “The whole point of that was we’ve got some things we should work on. . . .”
Btw, turns out that Ed Zore, head of NML, is a product of public higher education, with both a bachelor’s and a master’s in economics—both from UW-Milwaukee.
Posted by on August 31, 2007 at 2300 hrsJohn Foust is another example of someone who won’t understand something he sees as in his intereset to not understand. His mother would never have let him get him with that.
Posted by on September 01, 2007 at 0059 hrsEd Zore is great. But Ed Zore is a guy who has been here his whole life and has civic pride. He’s a product of a different generation and a different UWM era. He’s also a guy who did not “create” a great new business like NML here but rather has been a good steward of what already existed.
We are getting precious few additional Ed Zore’s in this community. What we need are highly skilled young people who want to live in this city and create businesses. Until we figure out a way to offer massive tax incentives to make that happen, we’ll continue in our downward spiral.
This city exists because 75-150 years ago a large group of immensely talented and hard working Poles, Jews (of all nationalities), Germans, etc came over here because they wanted to escape not only the wars of Europe but the political and economic culture that was stifling them. They found here an enviroment that was conducive to allowing them to realize their economic dreams.
We need governmental leaders who realize that having a factory or financial services business located in Milwaukee is a benefit in and of itself and not a cash piggy bank for WEAC and other public unions to use to ensure that they have retirement benefits that pay them $75,000 a year in benefits with free lifetime health insurance.
Posted by on September 01, 2007 at 0858 hrsSteve, I think that you are dismissing Zore too readily, just because he’s “a local.” He has taken NML in many different directions, hardly just place-holding what already was there. It would not still be tops in its business if that was so.
Also, I recall a recent story re an upswing in keeping educated 20-and-30-somethings in Milwaukee—although the retention problem continues for Wisconsin in general. So this also may be something that requires more suburban leadership?
Your larger point re business leadership is well-grounded. Would that more MBAs ( had to take more history courses. (Note that Zore is not an MBA; his degrees are listed as economics, one of the dreaded, so-useless liberal arts!)
Posted by on September 01, 2007 at 1211 hrsLee, you’re jumping to conclusions. I’d be glad to hear Carter’s fact situation as well as anyone’s suggestions about what they think the government should be doing for them or not doing for them. But Carter gives no facts.
And what’s not in my interest to understand?
Yo mama?
Posted by John Foust on September 01, 2007 at 1404 hrsIt seem to me that the bigger point is being lost here. And that point is that Wisconsin is losing out to other states when it comes to Businesses opening other Branches, or wanting to move Corporate Headquarters to Wisconsin.
This Carter guy was merely retelling the story of a bad experience he had dealing with the Government. That to me is something that ALL OF US as taxpayers should be concerned about.
But instead we have people here complaining that the story does not contain enough facts, that this guy is not a reporter, and that the Small Business Times is basically uncredible.
I mean sheesh, the guy wrote an OPINION piece in a BUSINESS newspaper, that presumably OTHER people in the Business Community read.
BTW: My take on the situation he was writing about is that Texas bent over backwards to get him to relocate there. While Wisconsin basically infered that “These are the terms and conditions of locating an office here. Take them or Leave them, and Please Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.”
Posted by on September 01, 2007 at 1438 hrsOr to put it another way:
Texas said what can we do for you? while Wisconsin basically said “What can you do for us?
Posted by on September 01, 2007 at 1440 hrsCheaney, there’s no “bigger point”. His anecdote didn’t say he wanted to locate here or locate in Texas - he said he was buying a company that was already in Texas.
As Owen pointed out, it’s even reasonable to guess that an “oil and gas” company might be stuck in Texas, and certainly Carter doesn’t say he wanted to relocate it here, nor did he say he wants to open a corporate headquarters here. After all, other material shows he was already in Hales Corners when he says he started his company in 2002. (If I had to bet a doughnut, I’d say he came to Wisconsin because of a woman, and he’s staying in Wisconsin because of a woman.)
If anything might be summarized from his mostly fact-free anecdote, he said he was treated nicely by Texas government bureaucrats, and poorly by some at Milwaukee City Hall. Why he was in City Hall, we have no idea. Why he needed Texas government business development people to answer those particular questions for him, and why his attorney couldn’t, we have no answer.
After all, if you have a business card, you’re a business-man! And government’s supposed to bend over backwards to help you.
But feel free to use your imagination to turn it into any sort of story you like. After all, “it’s all about the mindset.”
Posted by John Foust on September 01, 2007 at 1509 hrsHaving lived in WI. almost all my life, my dealing the local and state governments have been mixed. There have been some good workers and others who couldn’t give a crap. To me, it seems the local government workers give you a little better service, in general, than state workers. On the other hand, there have many private business that I have gone to where the service was terrible. I’ve walked out of restaurants and stores if the service was bad. But for the most part, I have found that private businesses do better in public service than the government.
Posted by on September 01, 2007 at 1524 hrsJohn:
Puh-leeze step out of the tunnel for 1 quick second. (I promise it won’t hurt)
Now lets forget about Carter for a minute, and look at the bigger picture.
You (John Foust) are an IT guy. You want to start you own business, You have done the research about the business climate in all 50 states.
After doing all the research you have narrowed your choices down to Washington State and California. (Both of which have an Extremely Educated Populous)
Now you go to what ever Government agency is in charge of Business Relocation in California, and tell them You have a business and you are thinking about relocating there. You also do the same in Washington State.
Now the People in California, pull out all the stops, they take you to a Fine Resturant, ask you about your future plans for expansion, they ask you if you would like any relocation assistance, in short they are very helpful.
Washington State on the other hand, sets up the meeting in some, cold cramped office, and says “OK here is what our rules and regulations are have a nice day” Basically having the attitude that he is doing YOU a favor by meeting with you in the 1st place.
Which State would you relocate to based on 1st impressions?
Posted by on September 01, 2007 at 1546 hrsWe’re not talking hypotheticals, are we? Your imagined story is fine. We were talking about why this Carter anecdote is supposed to be so hell-fire relevant. It’s not. It’s fact-free junk, but apparently the creamy unsubstantiated filling makes you feel good. Great. Continue on your fact-free merry way. Maybe you can convince Carter to come here and explain it all to us. I’d love to have something real to talk about.
Posted by John Foust on September 01, 2007 at 1609 hrsHey John Look! The sky is blue!
It’s fact-free junk, but apparently the creamy unsubstantiated filling makes you feel good.
No John, I am a Republican, I don’t have feelings remember?
Posted by on September 01, 2007 at 1624 hrsNow you’re babbling, Cheaney. Simple question: Which city office was Carter in, and why was he there?
Posted by John Foust on September 04, 2007 at 0831 hrsJF, I feel this is probably useless, because I don’t remember you ever conceding any point, but looking through your words for a minute: It is all about the mind-set. I agree with you, it is. This was an opinion piece in a business journal. Other business people read it and form an opinion, of either ‘I trust a successful businessman’ and Texas has a better business climate’ or ‘This guy doesn’t tell me any facts so he and his story are BS.’ Assuming any significant number of people think the former, why is that of zero concern to you?
Way back from your response to my last comment, I just speculated there were possibilities he chose not to name names. I never hinted the business dealing itself was secret, only that he may have been non-specific because he still has to work with that agency and publicly shaming an office is a lot more egregious than stating what he did. Sure some investigator could find out where he was going, but the general public didn’t hear it from him. After all, we all know what the chance of firing a public worker for mere rudeness and/or incompetence is right? I imagine the wonderful time he would have the next time he visited that office.
Posted by on September 04, 2007 at 0846 hrsI did read Carter’s other pieces. They were all similarly incoherent. Without a smattering of facts, his piece is as useful as a blog that talked about that funny thing that his cat did this morning. He might as well say, “Wisconsin sucks, and I’m not going to tell you why.”
If we look at the few factoids he does insert, it only leads to puzzlement. Why compare buying a Texas company with what - paying a bill at City Hall? Surely Carter has seen this thread by now. Maybe he can tell us more.
On a blog that suggests that clip art can “totally discredit” what a writer says, you’d think I’d get more traction for suggesting that an article has no substance. As I said, I’d love to hear about what’s great or inept about Wisconsin’s business promotion efforts, at any level, be they Milwaukee City Hall or from Madison.
Posted by John Foust on September 04, 2007 at 0906 hrsOWEN, the JF record is broken again.
The truth is you wouldn’t love to hear it from him or anyone else that isn’t you. If he wrote on this post right now, you would call it ‘similarly incoherent’ or call it a single anecdote, not the true Milwaukee business climate (which it isn’t, just a small part or symptom). Then you would fall back to ‘the need for facts and charts about new businesses State by State’ which would be bunk because of the source.
Do you watch a turntable as you write? Does anyone else feel like we are on a carousel? Yes JF...we know that...there are few...facts...and you believe...he is not...a credible source.
Posted by on September 04, 2007 at 0946 hrsYes, TUERQ, I’m a broken record. Call me crazy for asking for the who, what, where, when why and how. Tell me that what I’m asking for isn’t really what I want.
Heaven forbid that Wisconsin, with a population perhaps a quarter of Texas, can’t match them bite-for-bite when it comes to taking Bidness-Man out to lunch to answer his questions.
Just to keep twirling, I’ll ask you the same question again: Which Milwaukee office was Carter in, and why?
Posted by John Foust on September 04, 2007 at 0959 hrsThis is Chris Carter,
I just received this link to the site and the discussion.
WOW is all I can say..I will try to answer questions but 46 is an aweful lot at this point. Yes my rant was a little bit on the rough side, and yes it was meant to let folks know about WI & Texas and how WI treated me directly while I wanted to get some answers.I will be flying to Texas & DC this week so I will attempt to answer questions.
Thank you,
ChrisChristopher Carter
President & CEO
CCI
2156 S. 4th Street, 3rd Floor
Milwaukee, WI 53207
phone: 414.435.0520
fax: 414.431.8766
toll free: 1.888.622.4727
http://www.ccierp.com
http://hannahscure.blogspot.com/
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=ccierpThe Six Core Values of CCI:
Customer Service
Posted by Christopher Carter on September 04, 2007 at 1535 hrs
Quality
Product Excellence
Integrity
Commitment
PassionIt’s been nine days and Chris Carter’s offered no additional info.
I saw this today, so I’ll add it… It’s one person’s explanation of why Los Angeles doesn’t seem quite as nice as Madison. Yes, anecdotes.
Posted by John Foust on September 13, 2007 at 1234 hrsThat is actually very cool, but… does California really count?
Posted by on September 13, 2007 at 1309 hrs
What’s that old joke about all the fruits and nuts rolling to the west?
For all the complaining about how Wisconsin is so anti-business, it didn’t hurt to hear someone confirm that sometimes location, location, location matters. There are some that like the sea, there are some who will be happy with our kind of green.
Posted by John Foust on September 13, 2007 at 1320 hrsAdd one more ‘location’ to your statement. If you are willing to live in certain counties in WI, it is only a tax desolation not a tax hell. My wife has a co-worker with an older $240,000 home on a 1/2 acre lot in Franklin and she pays 10,800 in property taxes. My wife and I own a 5 acre plot with an older home at $225,000 and last year we paid $2680 in property taxes in Raymond, a little town of Racine County just south of Ryan Road. We live about 13 minutes from each other.
Posted by on September 14, 2007 at 0833 hrsIn your opinion, do your municipal services differ as well?
Posted by John Foust on September 14, 2007 at 0907 hrsSorry for the delay folks I have no excuse other then I lost this page to reply...sorry.
Well the reason I went to the states and the cities personally was the fact that I unfortunatally know some of the elected officials in WI, not that I was looking for ANY favor but to get answers to questions such as....we needed to let 6 folks go can I give them a bonus from the purchase and how would it effect the move, yes I know have the accounting firm deal with it but i wanted to ask, I wanted to make sure they were taken care of.
Another basic question was with WI we have a state tax, in TX there is not one, why wouldl we benefit from moving the company to WI or keeping in TX? I personally wanted to watch there eyes, see how they reacted and if they would trully give us a reason either direction.How woul dthe city & state encourage us to grow & assist us in growing....I did NOT accept anything from either state or cities no perks what so ever.
My decision was based on the best interest of the company and our people. Although i let those folks go I gave them their salaries until the end of the year to assist in the transition, we had double of needs now.Oh and by the way I decided to start the origional company in WI because I fell in love with a WI woman and was not willing to move her and our kids. But I have the green light to do so anytime now.
Posted by Christopher M. Carter on September 17, 2007 at 1435 hrsYa know JF, I am sure there are, but I have always been of the do it yourself mind-set, so I don’t even know what that entails, really. We both get garbage pick-up once a week, I have been told by new neighbors that they moved to Raymond because of the excellent schools their kids go to (I have none, I came to Raymond because my wife needed a farm for horses and we could afford it. Low taxes were an ignorance based bonus), we have a fire dept and little need of a police dept although they have been very helpful and knowledgable when it camr to questions like: When can we burn moldy hay, or who do we call for stray dog pick up. What are the extra services that Franklin people pay so much for?
Posted by on September 17, 2007 at 1618 hrs
Ol' Army
