Wisconsin Legislator Invites Minnesota Businesses to Wisconsin
Chuckle. I don’t know if I’d agree with the “low” taxes part, but hey… it’s worth a shot.
State Rep. Erik Severson, R-Osceola, sent an open letter to Minnesota businesses Tuesday, Feb. 5, urging them to relocate across the border in response to Dayton’s recent budget proposal.
“(Dayton) does not seem to understand that high taxes drive businesses out—out of business and out of his state,” Severson said in the letter. “Fortunately, your neighbors to the east are ready to welcome your business with open arms and low taxes.”
Severson, whose district borders the St. Croix River, said his office sent the letter to hundreds of Minnesota businesses close to the border, including 3M, Best Buy and UnitedHealth Group, in an effort to make them “stop and think if this is where you want to be.”
He said he already has heard from some Minnesota businesses looking into a move to Wisconsin in response to Dayton’s budget proposal, but he declined to name them.
I was born and raised in Minnesota, i have lived here in Wisconsin about half my life.
So i keep up with some news in my home state.
Minnesota elected Mark Dayton, he is 1 of the most liberal Governor in the US. The Democrats have full power, they control all three branches in Minnesota.
The taxes he is proposing will harm business in MN.
If your a consultant to a business, your taxes will rise for your services.
Dayton has talked of a single payer type health care bill.
He is talking of raising taxes on the top income earners, which is all ready high.
Clothing sales is not taxed, he is talking about taxing clothing sales.
He is talking about taxing merchandise bought on the internet.
There is a legislature, that wants to raise the gas tax 5 cents this year, 1.5 cents a year for the next 3 years.
I think its smart to try to lure business to Wisconsin, when bordering states all have low taxes, start now to get interests in Wisconsin.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 06, 2013 at 0751 hrs
I talk regularly with Minnesota residents/business owners.
The Democrats in MN state government are in full, foaming at the mouth, covetous mode of hard work and effort.
The taxpaying slaves of MN are very scared. They fully know what happened with Democrats in charge in IL. Whip the slave taxpayer too hard and you get less. Making the problem worse.
WI offers hope. Republicans have largely reigned in the government plantation masters in Madison.
Scott Walker is looked upon as a hero by the oppressed taxpayers in neighboring states.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 06, 2013 at 0812 hrs
Looking across the border, Minnesota is set to expand their sales tax to everything from accounting, to legal advice, to advertising services, and much more. For folks in the “value add” chain, this is a massive hit in their income and even the Star Tribune (a reliably leftist paper if there ever was one) has come out against the DFL’s plans since it would hurt them.
Minnesota Republicans touched the rail that got them kicked: they did the full social conservative route with gay marriage amendments and the like in a state that isn’t socially conservative overall. Wisconsin Republicans have been more focused on fiscal conservatism and attempts to reign in government and have been more successful at beating back the Democrat’s agenda by splitting the Democrat’s base.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 06, 2013 at 1005 hrs
Perhaps it would be good to give you a practical example of what’s been proposed by the Demonrats in Minnesota.
Lawyer W in Hudson, WI and Lawyer M in Woodbury, MN contract out their work to 3M. Both agree to do work at 10% over cost on a big acquisition. But in the end, they don’t deliver the same bill. Why?
Lawyer M whines, “Well I had to charge you more since my costs are higher. My cleaning service had to charge me 5% sales tax. The forensic accounting company who double checked the ledgers charged me 5% more, too. Then the keyword searches on all the emails of the target company ran me 5% more because the computer consultants charged me sales tax, too.” Then he sulkily adds, “And Lawyer W even paid less income tax than me.”
Basically, by taxing the business to business transactions MN threatens a much bigger and cascading set of taxes. In the above example, the lawyer had to pass along the costs of his cleaning service, his accounting firm, any PIs he had to hire, etc to his customer 3M, who then has to pass those costs on to the consumer.
Perhaps the simplest way to realize what’s up is that the Democrats are promising to reduce the sales tax rate to 5% and still bring in over $2B to the state. That alone should tell you about the competitiveness issue.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 06, 2013 at 1429 hrs
If all this is true and not just rhetoric, why is Wisconsin lagging behind Minnesota and Illinois in job creation. With all this extra money savings to businesses and all these businesses moving to Wisconsin, I do not understand why we cannot get the jobs here. That is the laser focus isn’t it? Don’t talk the mining jobs please, the current bill will cause at least 10 years of litigation and those jobs will be credited to another governor. Where are the jobs if we are that much greater than our neighbors.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 06, 2013 at 1454 hrs
What Nerdbert describes is the subsidy argument in reverse, insofar as why it’s so hard to ever eliminate sales tax exemptions. You’ll have an interest group and a lobbyist lined up to defend every one of those exemptions, prattling on and on about how the Minnesota economy would absolutely collapse if you got rid of it.
I’d hazard that for most Minnesotans, once one factors in the property tax rebate and additional aid to local governments that this change in part pays for, they’re either coming out even or slightly ahead. So you’ll get a lot of people who win a little and, like Nerdbert points out, a few people who lose big. But the big losers in this scenario are also free riders (or freer, at least) in the present scenario, because their products aren’t presently being taxed.
Hypothetically, If I produce a good as a final product and Nerdbert provides a service, what’s the justification within a system of consumption-based taxes that legitimizes me having to collect tax on my final product but nerdbert not having to collect a tax on his? Or worse, compare similarly-situated goods in different classes. If I sell luxury watches, I have to collect a tax. If Nerdbert sells luxury furs next door, he does not.
The argument about the tax rate is a legitimate argument to be sure. But philosophically, it’s also a different argument - it’s a discussion of how much should be collected as opposed to who should be taxed. But when you have a system like the one Minnesota’s has at present, you have a system that, much like our federal income tax system, is ripe for arguments of unfairness since so many people aren’t contributing. Rather than having a system with lower rates and higher participation, Minnesota has a system with higher rates and lower participation. Great if you don’t have to collect sales tax, but bad if you do.
Posted by Recess Supervisor on February 06, 2013 at 1528 hrs
If all this is true and not just rhetoric, why is Wisconsin lagging behind Minnesota and Illinois in job creation….
Posted by MoveForward on February 06, 2013 at 1454 hrs
Wisconsin has 2% lower unemployment than Illinois. You can make up your own mind but not your own facts.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 06, 2013 at 1830 hrs
No worries - we are sending jobs to Minnesota.
http://m.jsonline.com/more/news/education/wisconsin-firm-to-challenge-loss-of-15-million-school-data-pact-lr8keqo-189584761.html
Outrageous.Posted by Charlie Hillman on February 06, 2013 at 1836 hrs
I’d hazard that for most Minnesotans, once one factors in the property tax rebate and additional aid to local governments that this change in part pays for, they’re either coming out even or slightly ahead.
How do you figure that? The net is that the state is pulling $2B more out of the economy and adding expenses to everyone since they’ll also be taxing trucking firms and if that’s not an additional expense to everything you buy, what is? And the property tax “rebate” is pretty much a silly thing. Minnesota property taxes are pretty high compared to those in western Wisconsin.
Besides, the property tax is one of the few things oligarchs like Dayton pay that attaches to their wealth. Dayton’s money is tied up in a trust in tax free South Dakota, but his mansions are in Minnesota.
But the big losers in this scenario are also free riders (or freer, at least) in the present scenario, because their products aren’t presently being taxed.
No, the big winners are bigger companies (shock, I know). Companies that are large enough to justify containing their ancillary expenses like HR, legal, IT, etc internally will not be taxed on those functions, while smaller firms and individual contractors will be taxed. Somehow I don’t like the idea of bigger companies getting a tax break at the expense of smaller ones. If you want a way to discourage small business formation, this is a good one.
If I produce a good as a final product and Nerdbert provides a service, what’s the justification within a system of consumption-based taxes that legitimizes me having to collect tax on my final product but nerdbert not having to collect a tax on his?
It depends on what you want to accomplish. Do you want to create vertical mega-corporations that will crush small businesses by having lower expenses? I know that statists tend to like the bigger companies because they’re easier to pressure and tax, as well as being an excellent source of political bribery, err…, “donations”.
I’m not against taxing services, but recognizing that small businesses tend to have to pay income tax on their income in addition to sales tax on their income isn’t the best way to encourage small business formation.
Why have a “sales tax” anyway? Personally, it makes more sense to tax either only income or only sales than and to have no exemptions than our current crazy quilt. That’s a more consistent measure of economic activity and gets around the issue of favoritism of certain classes of company and product.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 07, 2013 at 1215 hrs
I’ve been an investor in Maris and Powers Mutual fund family for years.
They focus on Minnesota based companies and the funds have prospered over the years .
Democrats have run Minnesota for most of the last 50 years and all those,companies prospered .
I’m not saying that they prospered because of the liberal government , or that they prospered in spite of the liberal state government but prosper they did.
We have excellent mutual fund companies in Wisconsin but none that I know of that is focused on Wisconsin based companies.
So , although my economics degree is from a state school in Indiana , my sense is that running to Wisconsin for the fantastic tax advantages mentioned here is not in the mindset of those fantastic companies Minnesota calls home.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 07, 2013 at 1823 hrs
I agree, Mark. What the GOP sadly misses too often in this discussion is that taxes are just a variable in the equation, and in most cases unless the differences are extreme it’s not a variable that weighs heavily into the decision making process. The Twin Cities are a vibrant, highly-educated, and desirable place to live, with a major airport, excellent universities, and the synergy that comes when major companies are in close proximity to one another. And then down the road in Rochester, you have one of the best and largest health care facilities in the country, if not the world.
Wisconsin has Milwaukee, which is more like Detroit than MSP. And Madison, for all its appeal, is still a glorified college town with a regional airport. Beyond that, Wisconsin is pretty forgettable.
If people are really that concerned about taxes, they’re not going to move their business from Minnesota to Wisconsin. They’ll move it to Florida, where they can also get great weather in addition to a favorable tax climate.
Posted by Recess Supervisor on February 07, 2013 at 2052 hrs
You won’t find me disagreeing about Wisconsin being mostly unforgettable, and especially your critiques about Milwaukee and Madison. However, one of the reasons Milwaukee is little better than Detroit is the leadership its had, and may I remind you who the leaders of that city have been and the policies they enacted that made them that way?
Business climate makes a difference, just like educational environment, worker attitudes, and general weather. I don’t see Walker and company being able to do much about winters, worker attitudes are changing to be less rigid (albeit slowly), but business climate is something they are changing quickly and education may change now that a major impediment to educational reform has been reduced in power.
Like it or not, real spending education has more than doubled in the last 20 years, while educational results haven’t budged. If you’re spending 2x on something and it’s not getting results you need to change what you’re doing. And the unions have been fighting any changes in education tooth and nail rather than trying to find something that works. I understand that they’re fighting for their members, but I want to see their students improve more than I want to see their members happy.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 07, 2013 at 2123 hrs
Total agreement with RS and NB.
On the school front, I supported Charter schools in Milwaukee . The need is greatest there and if Charter schools could fix or help fix the problem - try it there first.
I just don’t see the majority of them working - so what else do we try? The problem remains and the answers both sides have in place aren’t getting us the results we are looking for .
What’s next?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 08, 2013 at 0918 hrs
What’s next?
Parenting. If you want to give kids an appetite for learning it needs to be cultivated at home and in the classroom.
I do not mean that to be flippant observation.
Schools/teachers are just part of a child’s education.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 08, 2013 at 1013 hrs
Schools/teachers are just part of a child’s education.
Much of the problem with Milwaukee is that in the inner city there’s little reward for working hard on an education. Without the good jobs that are the reward for education, there’s not much incentive for education.
That’s one of the areas where Minnesota has done well. If you look at its history, the MSP area has a vibrant technology cluster. In the past, CDC, Sperry, Lockheed, Honeywell and the like all offered excellent jobs for well educated folks. These days 3M and the medical technology companies are the ones offering the good jobs.
Now compare where Wisconsin and Milwaukee have placed their bets: assembling cars, machine parts, etc. Those were good jobs, but they never rewarded education, much less encouraged entrepreneurial thinking that generate the next wave of companies. They rewarded conformity and working for a big company, at least until the market opened up and cheaper (and often better) products from non-union companies killed their employers.
Business environment makes a difference in the kind of jobs created. Minnesota made a better one, but they’re now in danger of losing part of their advantage. The question is to whom they will lose that advantage.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 08, 2013 at 1254 hrs
Much of the problem with Milwaukee is that in the inner city there’s little reward for working hard on an education. Without the good jobs that are the reward for education, there’s not much incentive for education.
While future employment is certainly a driver for education later in the process, I question how motivating that is during the basic foundational work done in elementary school.
It also begs the question of what constitutes a good education?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 08, 2013 at 2006 hrs
It also begs the question of what constitutes a good education?
God in the childrens life. We have taken that away from kids and made them ashamed to love and worship the Lord. This is a huge reason for education and kids not caring about anything nowadays.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 08, 2013 at 2027 hrs
God in the childrens life. We have taken that away from kids and made them ashamed to love and worship the Lord. This is a huge reason for education and kids not caring about anything nowadays.
Any particular God or Lord you have in mind?
Or just the concept of something bigger than themselves?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 08, 2013 at 2044 hrs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-wrbOC_zwM&feature=youtu.be&t=40m
Incorporating the liberal religion in the curriculum—-that is the current public school god.
Karl Marx is moving from mere prophet to god with teacher union leaders.
So the decision on “god” has been decided in public school.
Naturally, teachers union picks a false god. (and why we need school choice)
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 08, 2013 at 2054 hrs
Karl Marx is moving from mere prophet to god with teacher union leaders.
At least he’s an economist.
I would have preferred Ricardo:)
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 08, 2013 at 2219 hrs
Somehow, a lot of culturally diverse European countries with comparable economies manage to raise smarter, less violent kids without much mention of God in any context of life. Perhaps you’d like to try again, Rdub. Then again, there are a lot of religious people in America who seem to have little use for the scientific method.
Posted by Recess Supervisor on February 09, 2013 at 0103 hrs
Then again, there are a lot of religious people in America who seem to have little use for the scientific method.
Posted by Recess Supervisor on February 09, 2013 at 0103 hrs
This hate coming from your keyboard is just not productive, true, or a good use of Mother Earth’s natural resources.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 09, 2013 at 0946 hrs
At least he’s an economist.
Macro economists are usually known for one thing: being wrong on a catastrophic scale.
If we are going to be nice, and say Marx is an “economist” (vs. a monster), he woefully underestimates one giant problem with his “economic” positions:
The ability of government power to corrupt when government is granted more and more control of resources. Hundreds of millions are dead last century because that message is rarely heeded.
Probably the most dangerous false god out there…and our public schools embrace this religion with open arms.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 09, 2013 at 1123 hrs
Macro-economists, those who observe economies on a large scale and describe their observations, tend to be excellent. Macro central planners are know for being wrong on catastrophic scales. The two are not the same.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 09, 2013 at 1401 hrs
Macro-economists, those who observe economies on a large scale and describe their observations, tend to be excellent.
You have a lot more “faith” than I do in macro economists. My old statistics professor used to think, at best, 1 halfway decent macro economic observation comes from every 100 economist “observations”.
And the halfway decent one was always blind luck.
“There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.”—Edward Huff
Macro economists deal in all 3 ad nauseum.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 09, 2013 at 1452 hrs
Hate, Smeety? You ever been to the Creation Museum? Seen pictures? The place is a conservative temple to denial of evidence. Humans riding dinosaurs? A 6,000-year-old earth? Would that tribute to ignorance exist in ANY other country on the planet?
I mean, really I’m grateful Christians aren’t busy trying to enforce most of Leviticus (just the gay-hating parts, I guess). If they tried to enforce the whole book, we’d be one step above the witch burners in Papua New Guinea.
This isn’t hate. This is teasing. Teasing because there are a lot of ignorant people in America who gleefully deny reality in order to keep believing that Moses rode a triceratops.
Posted by Recess Supervisor on February 09, 2013 at 1751 hrs
No. It’s just hate.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 09, 2013 at 1754 hrs
Then gladly sign me up for hating ignorance, I guess.
Posted by Recess Supervisor on February 10, 2013 at 0013 hrs
May God bless you, RS.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 10, 2013 at 0911 hrs
“A MAN WITH A CONVICTION is a hard man to change. Tell him you disagree and he turns away. Show him facts or figures and he questions your sources. Appeal to logic and he fails to see your point.”
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 10, 2013 at 1032 hrs
The truest characters of ignorance are vanity and pride and arrogance
.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 10, 2013 at 1038 hrs
So much hate…God bless you too Pat. May God help you find happiness…
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 10, 2013 at 1125 hrs
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