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Wisconsin Dropping In Business Climate Ranking

The Asian Badger points out this story in Forbes and says:

Forbes has published it’s annual report on the Best States for Business. No surprise that the Socialist Republic of Pol Pot Doyle, formerly known as “The State of Wisconsin ” is near the bottom at number 44 (out of 50 for you WEAC Members).

The current ranking is down five from last year and is just behind Montana and Mississippi (Mississippi actually jumped five spots) and just ahead of Rhode Island and Michigan.

[...]

Now, if that wasn’t bad enough, here’s the real kicker. In the last five years, the Gross State Product i.e. the economic output of the state grew only 1.6%.

The only state that trailed Wisconsin over the last five years of GSP growth is Maine which actually had negative GSP growth. Incidentally, the average GSP five year growth rate is 3.52%.

Posted by Owen at 0739 hrs
Politics + Politics - Wisconsin

1. Yet the very same Forbes rankings have Wisconsin’s Quality of Life Ranking as 8.  Funny how that works.

   Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 12, 2007 at 0833 hrs
   
   
   

2. Yet somehow on the “quality of life” rank, we’re 8th, but this was elided from your condensation, and the way we’re just behind the overall #1 ranking Virginia at “quality of life” 6 was missing from Asian Badger’s summary.  (It says this is an “Index of schools, health, crime, cost of living and poverty rates.”)  For this, Doyle deserves to be compared to a communist mass murderer?

   What sort of gubernatorial magic incantations might influence the six metrics in this table?  Metric 1 is “based on cost of labor, energy and taxes”.  He might have influence on taxes, but not much on the cost of labor or energy, right?  Blame the unions and big oil for our 34 here. Metric 2 is “educational attainment, net migration and projected population growth” and we get a 38. Metric 3 “Measures regulatory and tort climate, incentives, transportation and bond ratings.” Blame the lawyers and accountants. 

   Metric 4 “reflects job, income and gross state product growth as well as unemployment and presence of big companies.” Another 38. Get back to work, kids, keep your heads down in your cubicle and stop reading those blogs all day. Metric 5 “reflects projected job, income and gross state product growth as well as business openings/closings and venture capital investments.” I guess we get to blame lazy businesses for that 33 ranking. 

   Metric 6 is “quality of life” as mentioned above.  So what sort of government interference in the free market would you expect of a governor, in order for us to rise on almighty Forbes’ ranking?

   Posted by John Foust on July 12, 2007 at 0858 hrs
   
   
   

3. However, the #1 business friendly state is #6 on the Quality of life scale. The #1 quality of life state is #10 in terms of business friendliness.

   So, the two categories are not mutually exclusive. That is the two do not go hand in hand. So, it is possible to improve the business climate without tanking quality of life. However, our governor & state senate seem gun-ho on driving the business climate lower and my guess is quality of life would sink as well.

   Posted by Marcus Aurelius on July 12, 2007 at 1001 hrs
   
   
   

4. John:

   How would “Big Oil” be to blame for Wisconsin’s high energy costs? Big Oil are not single state entity.

   What can the governor do? For starters:

   Encourge the EPA to drop the botique fuel requirement.
   Reduce the state sales tax on gasoline.
   Eliminate the minimum mark-up law.
   Create a citizen run State Utility Board that does not grant every single price increase the utilities request.
   Eliminate the ethanol mandate.

   Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 12, 2007 at 1031 hrs
   
   
   

5. People that live here like it for obvious reasons, the recreation, quality of people etc.  The problem is that no one moves here to get a job and new businesses do not locate here.
     Almost 30% of our residents leave after they graduate from college and most of the non-residents.  Our seniors head south like my folks did.  They obviously went for warmth but also they improved their financial sitauon by 30% by going to Texas.
     The debate here is “wealth vs welfare”. 
       The democrats constantly want to create more welfare, are very happy with the business climaer cause they hate corporations.  They live in Madison, the east side of Milwaukee where they work for government or the education industry.
     If you would like our weekly newsletter on Wisconsin problems and issues, go to widigest.com and sign up.
   Wisconsin Conservative Digest

   Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 12, 2007 at 1154 hrs
   
   
   

6. Beware absolutist statements.  “No one moves here to get a job,” etc.?  Not so.  Most of my coworkers are from elsewhere—and many of my own family members who moved away when younger ended up moving back when they began to raise families, because we still have better schools than most areas of the country.  And becauses they found that the fees for the basics in life in their former, so-called “low tax” states added up to being quite costly. 

   Look for rankings that reflect fair comparisons of real costs of life.  Even in exurbs here, the costs of paying for your own garbage pickup can add up.  And when you pay for your own snowplowing, a cycle of bad winters can make you go for broke.

   This isn’t the best of places, this isn’t the worst of places—and absolutes about best, worst, “no one,” or “everyone” are hyperbole, which don’t help move us to being better than we are.

   Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 12, 2007 at 1242 hrs
   
   
   

7. I can’t help but think that those who benefit most by this are the members of the WMC. If we had a favorable business climate that was bringing in new companies and jobs, our existing employers would have to compete by raising wages and benefits.

   Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 12, 2007 at 1542 hrs
   
   
   

8. There’s some truth to that, but it only applies to companies who operate solely in Wisconsin.  Our business climate also makes it difficult for existing employers to attract and retain quality employees - always the most valuable resources.

   Posted by Owen on July 12, 2007 at 1605 hrs
   
   
   

9. As a former Virginian I feel entitled to comment.

   First, Virginia and Wisconsin are different in a lot of ways. Wisconsin does not have the convenience of the national capital, with lots of highly paid lawyers, lobbyists, association workers, defense-industry consultants and other government lackeys, who need a place to live located across the river.

   Also, the weather in Virginia is substantially better than that in Wisconsin. The city of St. Paul, MN has as many snowplows as the entire commonwealth of Virginia, for instance. Of course the weather affects more than just snowplows – think highway construction and tourism.

   Second, the commonwealth of Virginia is far better run than is the state of Wisconsin. Part of the reason for this is that Virginia generally runs things at the state level. Counties’ roles are more limited than they are here and cities do nothing but approve the building of massive subdivisions for all those lobbyists and lawyers to live in. Schools are run at the County level. Here in Wisconsin, we still think we ought to be able to take a horse and buggy to the nearest town hall to conduct our affairs. Can you imagine the efficiencies that might result by merging all the cities in Milwaukee County into one metropolitan government? Can you imagine the efficiencies that might result by merging all of Waukesha County’s dozens of school districts with their administrative staff into one? But no, that’s 19th century hippy thinking, there fella, and we don’t want to use no Waukesha County fire truck at our Delafield 4th of July parade. And we don’t want our kids to be in the same system as those hooligans in the cities of Milwaukee or even Waukesha.

   Also, and more importantly, both the Republicans and the Democrats generally follow good budget and fiscal practices. Instead of trying to be all things to all people like the Democrats here; or refusing to set spending priorities and creating god-awful messes like the Republicans here, both parties set priorities, use benchmarks, make cost-saving investments, and are generally more professional than the amateur hacks who represent us here. Of course Virginia does have and has had its share of loons and morons, such as a certain former Governor who is running for President who decided it’d be a good idea to pass a massive tax cut (the car tax) during good economic times without any plan for how to recoup that revenue in the event of a recession. But in general, the hacks and the screwjobs have historically been put in their place by legislators and executives who exhibit at least a minimal interest in the good of the entire state.

   Finally, as you right-wingers fawn over Virginia, remember the Commonwealth’s government has been controlled by centrist Democrats in the executive branch and republicans in the legislative branch since 2001. Given that and our nation’s experience in the 1990s, I’m starting to think that’s the only mix that really works.

   Frankly, Virginia is a model of what Wisconsin might if we could set priorities, know our limits, demands results, and seek efficiencies. Problem is I’ve seen no evidence that either party in this state or their groupies are interested or even have a basic understanding in any of these concepts. Instead it’s internet pledges and taxes on “big oil”.

   Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 12, 2007 at 1841 hrs
   
   
   

10. Tosa…who the hell “fawned” over Virginia?  They are what they are. Good for them. 

    The most telling stat of all of this is the abysmal GSP.  It’s all under the regime of Pol Pot Doyle and, as CEO, deserves the blame.  No wonder really when the main goal of the Dums in Wisconsin is to punish any type of achievement through confiscatory tax policies. (See Doyle budget.)

    The tax and regulatory climate here makes it damn near impossible to start much less grow a business so people vote with their wallets.  As a result, productivity, output and wealth creation suffer.

    Posted by The Asian Badger on July 12, 2007 at 2310 hrs
    
    
    

11. People start small businesses all the time.  What exactly about taxes or regulations poses a significant obstacle in your mind?

    I know why you call him Pol Pot.  ‘P’ words are always the funniest punch lines in a joke.  ‘Hitler’ and ‘Stalin’ just don’t have the same ring, do they?  So why do you compare him to a mass murderer?  You think Doyle’s that powerful, and our government and citizenry too weak to oppose him?

    Posted by John Foust on July 13, 2007 at 0958 hrs
    
    
    

12. Asian Badger,

    Are you the one in Basra? Anyway, I went through the referenced table and noted Virginia ranked high both in terms of business friendliness & in quality of life. I did this because it seemed people were treating business friendliness and quality of life as tradeoffs.

    Mr. Foust,
    I am dancing on the edge of starting a small business and without the reams of paperwork and other regulations encountered we might have one going. I wonder how many more businesses we would have in this state without all of the regulation? Just because some people manage to start businesses does not mean it is easy.

    Posted by Marcus Aurelius on July 13, 2007 at 1026 hrs
    
    
    

13. Foust…you may be the most stupid individual I have ever run across on the Web.  You want proof?

    Raise $50 million in three days. I did only after I agreed to move my business out of Wisconsin.  I did.  You still suck at the trough.

    Thank you.  You are dismissed.

    Posted by The Asian Badger on July 14, 2007 at 0027 hrs
    
    
    

14. Oh yeah…Foust…the reason he is Pol Pot is that just like Pol Pot, your boy Doyle will kill 1.5mm jobs.  I will concede that the 1.5mm under Doyle will have the option to “leave or live”. 

    The fact that you don’t get it shows just how stupid you are.

    If you don’t think you’re paying enough in taxes, BTW. just cut a check to the BBA for whatever you think is “your fair share”.

    Thanks.

    Posted by The Asian Badger on July 14, 2007 at 0032 hrs
    
    
    

15. I’m curious.  Give me some hard examples.  You’ve been making comparative statements, as if Wisconsin has “more paperwork and regulations” than some other state.  Are we talking simple sales tax and employee taxes, or something more esoteric related to your particular business?  What was more difficult, finding $50M from investors or handling a bit of paperwork to go along with it?  You’re smart enough to start a $50M business now, but never started one before this?  Hadn’t expected the paperwork?  Didn’t understand the regulatory climate in this new biz?  What was the nature of your obstacle?

    Posted by John Foust on July 14, 2007 at 0834 hrs
    
    
    

16. Given the posts on your blog, AsianBadger, I find your story about raising $50 million extremely dubious.

    That being said, your attitude is part of the problem. You think competent, non-invasive government that fosters a good business climate and provides a good quality of life could be run by people like you? Not hardly. I’ve got $5 says you’re going to respond with something from economics 101.

    I will agree however that our regulatory system is over-burdensome and our tax structure makes no sense. You have both parties to blame for that.

    Foust, as an example, my wife is in the medical field and needs a license to practice. In Virginia, the paperwork to get her license was fairly reasonable, simply a certified copy of the license from her previous state if I recall. When we moved to Wisconsin, she needed not only a certified copy, but official college transcripts, copies from the previous states in which she’s work, and plenty of other copies and forms I cannot even remember. It was way overboard.

    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 14, 2007 at 0940 hrs
    
    
    

17. I have no affection for government paperwork.  I also have no doubt it varies from state to state, from profession to profession, from industry to industry.  I have no doubt it ratchets upward as departments encounter problems and think that more paperwork will solve the problem or at least cover their behinds.  I think that’s a bureaucratic symptom that crosses party lines.  It’s not something that Doyle created in 2003.

    On the other hand, I think it’s terribly vague and outlandish to suggest that Wisconsin’s paperwork is so difficult that it makes it “damn near impossible to start much less grow a business.”

    Posted by John Foust on July 14, 2007 at 1708 hrs
    
    
    

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