West Bend Mayor Finds Another Liberal for Library Board
On May 3rd, THIS MONDAY NIGHT, the Common Council will be asked to vote “yes” to Mayor Kris Diess’ appointment of liberal Molly Zuehlke to the library board. Please read the excerpts below from Ms. Zuehlke’s own blog.
Go through and read Molly’s blog. In a city with a majority of conservatives, why is it that the mayor can only find ultra-liberals to appoint to the library board?
UPDATE: Hmmm… Molly’s blog is now open by invitation only. Curious.
UPDATE2: Molly’s blog is now open for all to see. She said:
My spouse changed it because he felt protective of me and our family but I changed it back as soon as I noticed. Anyone is more than free to read it.
Thanks, Molly!
because some people are just good folks- whether their politics are left or right?
Guess politics is the only lens we view things through now.
Quite sad.
Conservative’s vet judiciously- liberals rubber stamp
Generalization after generalization, posing as wisdom.
Amazing why anyone would fear liberals when they’re obviously such dim bulbs
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 29, 2010 at 2238 hrs
The bigger question is why you guys would have elected a mayor that would pick someone like that. Not hard to find someone of your mindset if you are looking. The appointee isn’t the issue. Sounds like you need a new mayor.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 0130 hrs
Because she doesn’t want another term as mayor?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 0332 hrs
Because “liberals” read more books than “conservatives”??? (Sorry, couldn’t resist.)
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 0631 hrs
In a city with a majority of conservatives, why is it that the mayor can only find ultra-liberals to appoint to the library board?
Obviously by design. WB’s idiot mayor needs to go…
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 0631 hrs
Because “liberals” read more books than “conservatives”?
Maybe it’s because liberals are more likely to want free books that are paid for with tax dollars, rather than having to actually pay for the books themselves.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 0713 hrs
Maybe it’s because liberals are more likely to want free books that are paid for with tax dollars, rather than having to actually pay for the books themselves.
Come on SOL, are you saying that conservatives don’t use, and appreciate, the free books that are paid for with tax dollars in the library?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 0738 hrs
I’m a conservative, and I would like to see most libraries closed and consolidated. IF WB really wants to start a trend, they should look at a mayor who favors consolidating the public library facilities into the school libraries or vice versa… There is no reason for communities to be duplicating those services.
I agree with the others, it’s not the library board that is the problem. It’s the Mayor.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 0756 hrs
Print is dead.
Posted by Charlie Hillman on April 30, 2010 at 0818 hrs
We could put Maley on the library board then he could fix the holes in the roof on meeting nights.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 0836 hrs
This is from the women who said the library wasn’t a “safe place” for kids anymore?
Two words, “parental responsibility”.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 0904 hrs
Two words, “parental responsibility”
I agree. It’s about freedom. Giving parents the freedom to raise their children as they so choose. We don’t need community activists being nannies to everyone else’s children.
Freedom. It’s about what the constitution is all about.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 0921 hrs
If the parents aren’t informed, they how are they suppose to guide their children? It should be the job of the PUBLIC library to inform parents and to safe guide children.
Yes, WB does need a new Mayor!!
Nannies? You mean like the liberal nannies who are telling us how much sodium we can have in our food? Or the nannies who are telling folks where and when or not to smoke? Or the nannies wanting to “safe guard” our children by handing out condoms?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 0934 hrs
Nannies? You mean like the liberal nannies who are telling us how much sodium we can have in our food? Or the nannies who are telling folks where and when or not to smoke? Or the nannies wanting to “safe guard” our children by handing out condoms?
Yup, and conservative nannies that try and tell us what we can and can’t do as well.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 0940 hrs
“If the parents aren’t informed, they how are they suppose to guide their children? It should be the job of the PUBLIC library to inform parents and to safe guide children.” Wow, nice “I don’t want to take responsibility for my children” argument. But please put “conservative” members on the library board so they can put labels on the books this wacko woman wants. Then when the library gets sued, which it will, you can then complain about the library being broke because of liberal laywers.
So in the top half of your comment you want the library “nannies” to take care of you. Then in the bottom half, you complain about nannies. Funny, in a sad kind of way.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 0941 hrs
Maybe it’s because liberals are more likely to want free books that are paid for with tax dollars, rather than having to actually pay for the books themselves.
Is it also the case that liberals are more likely to want free emergency services that are paid for with tax dollars rather than having to actually pay for it themselves?
Posted by scott on April 30, 2010 at 0949 hrs
“Yup, and conservative nannies that try and tell us what we can and can’t do as well.” Nicely put. The “morals police”.
“The whole intent was shelving books not on the basis of age or reading ability, but because they disapprove of the content with the intent of restricting access.”
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 1013 hrs
“The whole intent was shelving books not on the basis of age or reading ability, but because they disapprove of the content with the intent of restricting access.”
It’s for the kids. Ever here that before?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 1028 hrs
Send home a letter to the library patrons (using donated funds), informing parents to the content of some of the books. If they are okay with it they can sign a consent form and return it. A sticker could then be placed on the childs library card (using donated funds) to let the librarian know that the parens gave their permission for those books to be checked out.
It’s a pretty simple solution.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 1029 hrs
Send home a letter to the library patrons (using donated funds), informing parents to the content of some of the books. If they are okay with it they can sign a consent form and return it. A sticker could then be placed on the childs library card (using donated funds) to let the librarian know that the parens gave their permission for those books to be checked out.
That sounds like a good idea. Who’s collecting the donations?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 1032 hrs
I think we should let librarians do their job—make information available to the community. If someone doesn’t want their kid to access something that’s their own responsibility.
Posted by scott on April 30, 2010 at 1033 hrs
First off give me a few examples on how conservative are nannies? Cause I have a list a mile long from the leftys.
Second, I am not for removing anything, I am for giving parents full disclosure.
If we are the “morals police” does that make you the
“anti-morals police”?Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 1034 hrs
But wait, the content of what books?? Who’s making that decision??
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 1034 hrs
I am. The Judeo-Christian bible will now come with a warning label.
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
Posted by scott on April 30, 2010 at 1037 hrs
You want to get the liberals riled up? Just get a librarian to put books about the life of Jesus of Nazareth in the kids section…. then sit back and watch the fireworks.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 1037 hrs
The funny thing is that you actually believe this.
Posted by scott on April 30, 2010 at 1039 hrs
“First off give me a few examples on how conservative are nannies?”
From your own comment, “Send home a letter to the library patrons (using donated funds), informing parents to the content of some of the books. If they are okay with it they can sign a consent form and return it. A sticker could then be placed on the childs library card (using donated funds) to let the librarian know that the parens gave their permission for those books to be checked out. “
This is easy.
“You want to get the liberals riled up? Just get a librarian to put books about the life of Jesus of Nazareth in the kids section…. then sit back and watch the fireworks.” The only problem I would have is if you wanted to put this in “non-fiction”.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 1043 hrs
First off one example does not equal a few. Fee free to keep listing examples of conservatives being nannies.
But wait, the content of what books?? Who’s making that decision??
Decisions can be made between the librarian, library board and community volunteers from both sides on which books are in question. If it’s in questions it gets a sticker.
Inform the parents there are materials that contain explicit sexual content and for you liberals books about Jesus. (see post 19)Think of it as Blockbuster-type…they are categories….adult, teen, youth, and those with adult permission.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 1113 hrs
Hmmm… Molly’s blog is now open by invitation only. Curious.
Posted by Owen on April 30, 2010 at 1114 hrs
Who is Molly?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 1118 hrs
I suppose she doesnt want anyone from the common council to see her true colors. It shall be interesting to see how the alderman vote on this issue. Stay tuned for the best show on television Monday night.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 1133 hrs
Molly is the nominee.
Posted by Owen on April 30, 2010 at 1136 hrs
Maybe it is by invitation only to keep the eyes of the pro-censorship people off it.
“Think of it as Blockbuster-type…they are categories….adult, teen, youth, and those with adult permission.” Why should I submit to what other people “deem” is acceptable? And no one in their right mind who is against this censorship would be on a panel to determine which books get a sticker.
It is censorship plain and simple. You want people to be able to censor what other people have access to. I should be able to raise my kids to have access to any library books they want. If I have a problem with the books, I will do something about. Do not tell me what is or is not appropriate for my kids.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 1146 hrs
Decisions can be made between the librarian, library board and community volunteers from both sides on which books are in question. If it’s in questions it gets a sticker.
Sounds more like nannyism. I believe that parents should have, and do have, the freedom to go to the library and research what’s there and deem what appropriate for their own children, not someone elses. What we don’t need is a group of community activists imposing their beliefs on everyone. I don’t think our founding fathers would like that.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 1207 hrs
Well if anyone knows about nannyism…
Pat sounds like stone-walling to me. You just don’t want to go to the max to inform parents and protect the children. See, that’s where we differ…I do.
See, you leftys ask how and when we propose a solution you call it censorship. When in fact it is not censorship…it’s parental control. The books are still there and are able to be checked out IF the parent says it’s fine. What you are trying to do is knock the parent out of the loop, instead of including the parent. Sort of like Planned Parenthood does with condoms.
Frankly, I do discourage my kids (teenagers) from using the library. In fact I’d rather stimulate the economy buy buying books or downloading them. Furthermore, I believe that while the library does have a certain place, it is not worth the taxes to keep it open.
If we really want change a new and more competent Mayor needs to be elected.
I take pride in being deemed the “moral police” because a heck of a lot better than being the “anti-moral police”.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 1252 hrs
Crusher, You would never want me to fix anything of value with my hands.
I am the least handy purveyor of building products in the universe
————————————————————————————————-Sounds like “the oracle on the Hill “- Mr Peterson is right.
“Let the Purges begin”
Fire the mayor, close the libraries, whack the teachers and inquire discretely about email that might reveal teachers with an alternative life style.
Pitch forks at 8, Fire and brimstone at noon, liberal witches burned at 3.
If some of these folks get in charge West bend need only to change it’s name to West SALEM
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 1301 hrs
Pat sounds like stone-walling to me. You just don’t want to go to the max to inform parents and protect the children.
No, I want individual freedom for parents to make their own decisions for their own children. I don’t want this “it takes a village” crap to have a bunch of nannies attempt to take away my freedom to raise my children as I see fit. They can raise their own children. It’s not stone-walling, it’s call freedom. Parents need to go to the max for themselves and their children not someone elses.
I’m sick of this “its for the kids” crap.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 1343 hrs
“See, you leftys ask how and when we propose a solution you call it censorship. When in fact it is not censorship…it’s parental control.”
No it is not. When a group of individuals want to impose their belief structure or limit what other people have free access to, IT IS CALLED CENSORSHIP.
Do you want to know what parental involvement actually is? You can go to the librarian and ask what books your kid is checking out. Then, you can get off your lazy ass and read them or maybe google them to see what the books are about.
Or here, don’t take your kids to the library and check books out yourself that you want them to read.
“What you are trying to do is knock the parent out of the loop, instead of including the parent. Sort of like Planned Parenthood does with condoms.” Uh no. What you are actually trying to do is knock parents out of the loop. By installing your own views on other people, it knocks my views out of the process.So giving kids condoms is allowing them to have sex? This just in, kids can have sex without condoms. Do you think that by having access to them makes them want to have sex more? Are you serious? People like you make me fear what this country could turn into if you were allowed to make decisions.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 1359 hrs
Here kelly, the definition of censoring:
How is what you are proposing not censorship?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 1418 hrs
“Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there.”
—Clare Booth LucePosted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 1446 hrs
You righties do this!!!
You lefties do that!!!
Do you realize your arguing about a seat on the library board??
I can’t wait for the end of two party politics in the USA. I’m tired of going to the voting booth and having to choose between the lesser of two evils instead of choosing a candidate that actually represents my views.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 1447 hrs
Maybe she should appoint a teacher who sexually assaults kids; that seems to be representative of those famous “West Bend Family Values”
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 1457 hrs
Mark
We cant burn witches anymore the DNR has banned use of burn barrels. Brimstone can only be used if you have a haz mat liscense. You must apply and be approved by the state before you can purchase a pitchfork.I miss the good old days, attending a good stoning or flogging for family fun night. I cant even purchase any good torture equipment unless its OSHA approved, not to mention throwing anyone in the tower because of city height restrictions.Have you ever tried to drag someone from there home in the middle of the night using a flameless torch.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 1517 hrs
If we knew Molly would go underground with her blog, I would have taken some screen shots of it. Maybe I’ve got it in the cache somewhere.
For those of you that missed it, it had a giant “Obama 2008” logo on the right hand side. The rest was general musings about how rough it can be to live in a conservative community like West Bend. Imagine the writings of Barbara Boxer if she were a resident of Green Acres.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 1518 hrs
Could you please change the update? My blog is still open to everyone. My spouse changed it because he felt protective of me and our family but I changed it back as soon as I noticed. Anyone is more than free to read it. I apologize for any inconvenience that anyone had accessing my blog in the interim. I welcome civil discourse and am not trying to hide who I am. I’m sorry that you feel I am not qualified to serve the City in this capacity. I am just trying to exercise my right to be an involved citizen.
Molly Zuehlke
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 1700 hrs
What’s wrong with giving parents the right to choose for their kids…that’s what you’ve been saying all along…“it’s the parents responsibility”. If that is true then put your money where your mouth is and truely let the parents decide…you’ll have it writing and the kids will still have access to the materials. Not censorship.
Mark, if it’s broke (which it is) then it’s time to fix it. I suppose the same ol’ same ol’ is good enough for you.
No, I want individual freedom for parents to make their own decisions for their own children.
..me too, that is why I think parents should be able to sign a consent form.
Do you want to know what parental involvement actually is? You can go to the librarian and ask what books your kid is checking out. Then, you can get off your lazy ass and read them or maybe google them to see what the books are about.
True, some parents are lazy…even more reason to protect them.
Your condom arguement is flawed…it is access to sexual material.
I will continue to say that the Mayor needs to go…she hasn’t done enough for the citizens of WB.If people are truely concerned about their taxes then tough decisions need to made…and perhaps the library is one of them. I have no problem making the tough decisions.
Seems like a hit a nerve with the lefies.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 1733 hrs
What’s wrong with giving parents the right to choose for their kids…that’s what you’ve been saying all along…“it’s the parents responsibility”. If that is true then put your money where your mouth is and truely let the parents decide
Parents have that individual right already. We don’t need an activist nanny team making those decisions for the rest of the parents in the community. It’s all about personal responsibility. It’s all about freedom. It’s not a conservative thing or a liberal thing.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 1757 hrs
Comment writers on this blog have proven one thing: the same facts can be used to make any argument based upon their interpretation.
If the views in this blog are truly representative of the WB community it seems to me we have a serious inability to listen; compromise; or even refrain from vilifying those with opposing viewpoints.
It’s always “us v.s. them” or “good v.s. bad” a very out-dated and narrow way of viewing people and the world. There is a lot of gray area out there and rather than dealing with it intellectually or logically - we find scapegoats and make broad, divisive generalizations.
“Damn those conservatives ruining all that is good and decent!”
“Damn those liberals ruining everything that is good and decent.”
Can’t we just respect people because they are human beings, and agree to disagree without reducing the dialogue to a session of name-calling and one-upmanship
Get real. Its time from some self-reflection. When you get to the point of adults engaging in behaviors they wouldn’t allow by their children in their own homes you’ve sunk to a real low.
If that doesn’t resonate with anyone, maybe this will:
Conservatives:“Do onto others as you would have done to you.”—Jesus
Liberals: “Never separate the life you live from the words you speak.”—Paul Wellstone
(stepping down from soap box now)
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 1810 hrs
For those of you that missed it, it had a giant “Obama 2008” logo on the right hand side. The rest was general musings about how rough it can be to live in a conservative community like West Bend.
What’s wrong with this, other than the fact you don’t agree with her. Do you want mindless drones to be on the board? Or only those you agree with. Either way, that’s not a democratic ideal.
You all are a bunch of closed-minded assholes, as far as I can tell.
Go start a commune if you want to live in isolation with only people who think exactly like you do.
Fuckheads.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 2019 hrs
I realize that this will not be solved here. This will be solved at the next election for the WB Mayor’s race.
I also realize that the left always always result in name calling.
So if reading this blog gets you so upset you have to reduce your level of intelligence with swearing you may be better off to just not check the blog. May I suggest the website Salon…where everyone agrees with you.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 2201 hrs
crusher,
You show us another side of yourself and i like it.In a paraphrase of larry the cable guy
“I don’t care who you are- #43 is a funny post.”
all the best
MHM
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 2202 hrs
I haven’t kept up with the comments, but here’s mine. It’s the Library Board. It’s not Congress. It’s about the local library. This woman likely cares very much about the library.
If she is appointed, I doubt she is going to replace all the board books in the children’s section with gay porn. Even if she did, it wouldn’t matter too much because I would still, as I always have, peek through the books my kids choose before checking out.
I want people on the board who care about the library. If she is on the board, she will probably try to accommodate the views of lots of different people in the community. It’s not like she is going to try to ban all books by Ann Coulter. You wouldn’t, would you, Ms. Zuehlke?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 2254 hrs
I should add that I’ve never, not once, read a book by Ann Coulter.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 2255 hrs
Wendy is right (as always). It is the library board, probably about the most who cares post on the planet. And we should be happy anyone wants to serve on it at all. I wish Molly well. You should be directing your energy towards removing your mayor instead. You elect a lefty, you deal with the consequences of that. And this is a tiny harmless consequence. Treat the cause, and just get a better mayor.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 30, 2010 at 2349 hrs
The common council can vote “no” until they find someone that represents community standards.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 01, 2010 at 0654 hrs
This Molly was worried about having a shotgun pulled on her if she went door to door? She sounds extremely partisan and the council should just vote no and get somebody who represents the majority of the residents.
I do have a question. If West Bend is a Conservative community, why did you elect such a lefty mayor?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 01, 2010 at 0918 hrs
The common council can vote “no” until they find someone that represents community standards.
And who defines, decides, and enforces what those “community standards” are??
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 01, 2010 at 1018 hrs
Simply, how about just a balanced board? Kris obviously appointed left-sided library board replacements to make her statement of disagreement, but her abusive assertion of authority to stack the deck with liberals just makes her all the more distasteful in the eyes of her constituents.
Posted by GAMazy on May 01, 2010 at 1253 hrs
Kris obviously appointed left-sided library board replacements to make her statement of disagreement, but her abusive assertion of authority to stack the deck with liberals
And you know that they are all liberals, how?? Maybe they are conservatives that believe in individual freedom just as our founding fathers believed in individual freedom. As guess maybe just not the kind of freedom so called proponents of the constitution want.
True believers in the Constitution don’t need a group of nannies dictating what’s good for everyone else.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 01, 2010 at 1331 hrs
My bad. Should read “I guess maybe just not the kind of freedom so called proponents of the constitution want.”
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 01, 2010 at 1333 hrs
The philosophy of liberty is based on self ownership.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 01, 2010 at 1431 hrs
“And who defines, decides, and enforces what those “community standards” are??”
Let’s hope that its not the left by making appointments like this. Obama is a good example of the left getting an inch and taking a mile. I have never seen a lefty do anything else.
Also, Our dear lefty President is now refusing to allow our aircraft carrier groups to chase away Iranian fighters hovering over them. It makes me wonder what else he’s doing.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 01, 2010 at 1641 hrs
Let’s hope that its not the left by making appointments like this.
That’s not answering the question. It’s unrelated strawman rantings.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 01, 2010 at 1646 hrs
her abusive assertion of authority
How is a duly elected mayor following process by nominating an individual, who then needs to be approved by the council, at all abusive?
THAT’S HOW THE PROCESS WORKS
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 01, 2010 at 2211 hrs
How is a duly elected mayor following process by nominating an individual, who then needs to be approved by the council, at all abusive?
Don’t hold your breath waiting for a reply to that question.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 02, 2010 at 0805 hrs
Just like how a bill publicly & vigorously debated for a year, voted on by 2 democratically elected houses of congress, and signed by a democratically elected president, is evidence of tyranny.
I’m continually reminded that the world is full of simpletons.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 02, 2010 at 0844 hrs
Ginny is being disingenous. If a conservative mayor that she approved of were to appoint a balanced board with both conservative and liberal members Ginny and other conservatives would be up in arms criticizing the mayor and demanding a recall for ignoring the “values” of the community. And ofr, whatever party is in control will use whatever tactics necessary to advance their agenda. Just watch the upcoming battle over Obama’s Supreme Court Nominee. Regardless of who it is the Republicans are going to attempt to block it, stall it and derail it (what the Dems did to Bush’s nominees) and the Dems will demand that their nominee be allowed to have an up or down vote (what the Republicans demanded for Bush’s nominees). It will be the same old tactics and arguments, just coming from different people this time.
Posted by wbfreethinker on May 02, 2010 at 0926 hrs
Ginny to Alderman: “What do you know about the mayoral appointees?”
Alderman: “Nothing.”
Ginny: “Why?”
Alderman: “We only get a name, not information.”
Ginny: “How do you know how vote on the appointee then? How do you know this is the best decision?”
Alderman: “We have to trust the mayor.”
Mayor: “It’s my mayoral privilege to appoint who I want.”
Posted by GAMazy on May 02, 2010 at 0939 hrs
I’m sorry Ginny, but it’s a nomination for appointment that will need to be approved by the common council. I’m sure that the common council will perform their due diligence, and make the a decision based on that. It’s called the democratic process.
Now, why don’t you answer the questions made to your statements.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 02, 2010 at 0954 hrs
Pat -
Apparently you support placing adult material in children’s sections, you don’t know what a straw man is, you think the common council has to rubber-stamp the Mayors nomination and you cannot see the obvious answer that is probably why Ginny isn’t answering a foolish question.
You are a good example of why lefties should not be in any position.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 02, 2010 at 1140 hrs
You are a good example of why lefties should not be in any position.
You evidently wouldn’t know a lefty if it bit you in the ass. I’ve said absolutely nothing regard to any political leaning. I have no idea what your political leanings are, but I’m sure it doesn’t have anything to do with individual freedom.
I’m advocating liberty and personal responsibility based upon the constitution. I’m anti-nannyism whether it be on a national, state, or local level. Does that sound liberal to you??
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 02, 2010 at 1517 hrs
25. 27. 28. For the three ignorant critics of the library who don’t have library cards, kids or a freaking clue (about a public library’s purpose).
They think books on Jesus in the children’s section are going to anger liberals.
Jesus of Nazareth: A search of the West Bend public library catalog brings up 40 titles tagged with the subject Jesus. For example, there’s one about the camels who hauled the mythical 3 wise men’s asses to Jesus of Nazareth’s birth and here’s a title: The cross in the egg : the Easter story retold for children. 40 books paid with tax dollars tagged with the subject Jesus. Tax dollars also paid for the acquisitions of 2 on Buddah, 5 on Buddhism, 2 on Islam, and 9 on Judaism
... all in the hallowed children’s section.Jesus,
Please please convince these people to get a freakin library card, go to the library, find a book, check it out, read it, return it, and continue to check out more books.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 02, 2010 at 2222 hrs
Ginny - it sounds like your criticism should be with Aldermen who simply rubberstamp nominations rather than the mayor who suggests them. Its their job.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 02, 2010 at 2251 hrs
This can be settled when the Mayor comes up for
re-election….stay tuned.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 0634 hrs
This can be settled when the Mayor comes up for
re-election….stay tuned.Yah, we need a different mayor in office that will only nominate appointees that the common council can rubber stamp with confidence.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 0845 hrs
“25. 27. 28. For the three ignorant critics of the library who don’t have library cards, kids or a freaking clue (about a public library’s purpose).” I guess defending the library is being an “ignorant critic”?
How in the world does that make sense. No, I don’t think the bible would anger me, since I am a liberal.
I have no problem with the bible being in the library. It just needs to be in the fiction section.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 0917 hrs
What is wrong about choosing are civic leaders using the election process? I thought West Bend was part of America? or do incumbants get a free pass?
Let the best man/woman win, word to the wise for anyone in politics, govern accordingly to the wishes of the people that put you in power, because as fast as you throw them aside and substitute with bits and pieces of your own agenda they will certainly return the favor come election time.Times have changed just having a R or a D next to your name on the ballot is not enough to win a spot, media/information is everywhere there is no hiding or brushing your mistakes under the carpet, make sound choices because voters are very informed,its not like the old days.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 0949 hrs
Amen to that, Crusher.
Posted by GAMazy on May 03, 2010 at 0954 hrs
Yah, we need a different mayor in office that will only nominate appointees that the common council can rubber stamp with confidence.
-Pat
Thanks Pat, glad you agree!
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1008 hrs
“True, some parents are lazy…even more reason to protect them.”
But I thought you were against the nanny state? Or do you want to “protect” them from the freedom they currently enjoy because you don’t think they should have it?
Why should you be able to tell me what is right for my kids? Why are you trying to advocate for the subversion of parental involvement?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1033 hrs
Why should you be able to tell me what is right for my kids?
..I’m not, quite the opposite. I want the library to offer a consent form so YOU can decide.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1039 hrs
A consent form based on what???
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1042 hrs
“I want the library to offer a consent form so YOU can decide.” But I already CAN decide. I take my kids to the library. I see what books they want to check out. I decide if I want them to check the books out. How difficult is that?
What’s next? A consent form to attend public school?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1055 hrs
Kelly,
What standards matter? What details need to be provided to parents? Since different parents have different views of what their children should be reading, I don’t see how you could get the librarians to take responsibility for every book every child takes out. Do libraries need to have rules that keep children out of adult stacks? What age is old enough to go there? How does it get enforced?
If you don’t trust your children to read the books you want them to read, go with them to the library or review what they have taken out when they get home. Talk with them about why you think the book is not appropriate for them until they are older. Don’t try to make the librarians your personal censors. They cannot possibly know what books will meet with your approval.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1057 hrs
I agree…parents SHOULD go to the library with their kids. The fact of the matter many don’t. Do you want to protect just your own kids or all kids?
Just let the parents know that their children may be exposed to explicit sexual content and list a few books that are in question so they can research them for themselves. Then they can sign the consent or refuse to sign the consent form.
If you read a number of posts back I explain the hows…of course many nah-sayers say it can’t be done, I say it could be.
In the end it will not matter what I say, this is why I say the people of WB need to elect a Mayor that reflects their values. WB is a conservative city with conservative people. I believe the next Mayoral election will prove to be interesting.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1118 hrs
In the end it will not matter what I say, this is why I say the people of WB need to elect a Mayor that reflects their values. WB is a conservative city with conservative people. I believe the next Mayoral election will prove to be interesting.
We’ll be able to change the cities name from West Bend to Nannytown then.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1126 hrs
The idea that the library is a risky place for kids is ludicrous in the extreme. It’s hard to believe that people are even having this conversation. I’m pretty sure that too much interest in books is not a major predictor of delinquency. My message to someone whose kids are spending time in the library: Thank your lucky stars for your good fortune and find something more legitimate to worry about.
Posted by scott on May 03, 2010 at 1127 hrs
Pat…only if the voters agree on it!
Guess it’s better than being called Anti-Moralsville.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1151 hrs
How about “Where the Constitution went to die”?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1214 hrs
The library is a risky place for children, the roof has been leaking since day one. If the roof of your house leaked for ten years and you ignored it the possibility of the roof collaping under the weight of heavy snow could very well happen.
If your up in arms about mold and mildew, imagine all the nooks and crannies and walls the water has running into for ten years, it has to be nasty under the surface.
Put somebody on the board who makes this first priority, if this problem is ignored long enough there will be no building for anyone to debate.
When this building was new not that long ago it won an award for best in state, what a shame we cant take care of it.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1215 hrs
How about “Where the Constitution went to die”?
...sorry that was taken care of in Washington D. C. with the current administration.
NEWS FLASH: Library is a safety risk…
The library is a risky place for children, the roof has been leaking since day one. If the roof of your house leaked for ten years and you ignored it the possibility of the roof collaping under the weight of heavy snow could very well happen.
...the library must be closed immediately!
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1224 hrs
“...sorry that was taken care of in Washington D. C. with the current administration.”
Two words, PROVE IT.
Second, when your lousy censorship ideas didn’t work you resort to the leaking roof. Guess what, it is May. The chances of the roof collapsing due to snow are slim.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1230 hrs
Dont you think water leaking in for ten years has caused some type of structural damage like rotted roof trusses? wet insulation that adds weight to calculated structural loads?
It all looks good when you drive by, so why fix it, let it leak, let someone else worry about it, guess it will just fix itself.
When you start hacking up chunks dont even give the air quality issue a second look, its not your job to think and reason on your own, a appointed board member will do this for you.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1247 hrs
“When you start hacking up chunks dont even give the air quality issue a second look, its not your job to think and reason on your own, a appointed board member will do this for you.” So wait, you are telling me it is not the job of the city government to fix city buildings?
If you wanted the building fixed sooner, why didn’t you elect people into the positions that had the power to do something?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1341 hrs
@Molly: Nobody is denying your “right to participate.” That’s where you seem confused. There are more qualified people than you, as well. I have ORRs to prove that. So why you, Molly? As far as I am concerned, that answer is crystal clear. And I am sure you know that answer, as well.
Posted by GAMazy on May 03, 2010 at 1413 hrs
Hey Liberal…don’t shoot the messenger…I just copied it from post #90 (crusher)
Furthermore…read Obama’s manual the The Audacity of Hope and you can read for yourself how he disregards our Constitution.
“The cliché invoked by Obama of a “living” Constitution disguises the fact that the entrenchment of leftist policy preferences as constitutional rights deprives the political processes of the very adaptability that Breyer and company pretend to favor. As Scalia has put it, “the reality of the matter is that, generally speaking, devotees of The Living Constitution do not seek to facilitate social change but to prevent it.” -Edward Whelan, president of the Ethics and Public Policy Center.
In the meantime…I will wait for the Mayoral election.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1420 hrs
So why you, Molly?
So why not?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1430 hrs
Like herding chickens.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1434 hrs
Does one actually herd chickens?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1447 hrs
So, because you reitterated someone else’s post as your own doesn’t mean you have to defend it? Come on.
“[T]he words of the [Eighth] Amendment are not precise, and that their scope is not static. The Amendment must draw its meaning from the evolving standards of decency that mark the progress of a maturing society.”
Can you guess what year this supreme court ruling was annonced?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1505 hrs
Crusher- you’re correct (I seem to be saying that a lot)
that voting is important and when the other side fairly wins, you grin, bear it- and work harder the next time.
So Ginny, Is it just me or its this an over reach?
You have the votes on the council to get any jackass you want appointed-
Why smear this person with hints about an unanswered question- and some dark knowings that you possess but aren’t willing to share.
I’m going to take a crack at it.
Keep this among us…............................................
she doesn’t agree with you
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1526 hrs
she doesn’t agree with you
Exactly. Ginny is nothing more than a school yard bully. And school yard bullys have self esteem issues.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1530 hrs
Ah, liberal it was a joke. Something I know libs lack. Since I haven’t seen water leaking at the library I am unable to comment on it. However, if it is leaking I would suggest a bucket.
The fact alone that Obama is taking over the banks and car companies goes against what this country was founded on…limited goverment.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1532 hrs
Mark, indeed, you make me smile!
Posted by GAMazy on May 03, 2010 at 1551 hrs
I have ORRs to prove that.
Please make all your ORR data public, so we can see for ourselves.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1555 hrs
The fact alone that Obama is taking over the banks and car companies goes against what this country was founded on…limited goverment.
I’d think that our founding fathers did base the founding of this country on the premise of limited government. But the argument would have whether or not if the bank bailouts and investing in GM was unconstitutional.
I don’t believe that the Constitution mentions anything about capitalism, socialism, communism, or anything else.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1600 hrs
“The fact alone that Obama is taking over the banks and car companies goes against what this country was founded on…limited goverment.” I didn’t realize this country operated under a dictatorship where the congress doesn’t vote on bills or anything….
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1602 hrs
Please make all your ORR data public, so we can see for ourselves.
Yes please share.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1603 hrs
Limited: In the Constitution
It is used to discuss Congress’ Authority over Trademark and CopyrightTo promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1614 hrs
Pat,
Does that mean that corporations should be considered unconstitutional rather than treated like very special people?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1624 hrs
Does that mean that corporations should be considered unconstitutional rather than treated like very special people?
You’d think.
Here’s some other things of interest that the constitution doesn’t mention:
Rule of law
Conservatism
Free Enterprise
Entrepreneur
Market
Tyranny
Family
Neighborhood
Community
and Faith is only mentioned as “Our faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of everyother state.”Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1635 hrs
Pat when the government takes over private enterprise they are doing exactly what the founders ran away from…not to mention the over taxation.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1809 hrs
After the bank bail out vote one - “No” and Vote 2 - “Yes”
...there is evidence private enterprise took over government.
Beware large monied organizations - T. Jefferson (obviously a leftie, commie, socialist statement or just plain common sense)
...straying further from the original thread.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 1935 hrs
Pat when the government takes over private enterprise they are doing exactly what the founders ran away from…not to mention the over taxation.
And this is in the Constitution where??
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 03, 2010 at 2014 hrs
Pat, the Bill of Rights appended to the Constitution limits the power of the United States.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 04, 2010 at 0628 hrs
Pat, the Bill of Rights appended to the Constitution limits the power of the United States.
Please point me to the exact wording in the constitution that says the government can’t tax and can’t bail out a company.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 04, 2010 at 0748 hrs
The Constitution relies on the ideas of Separation of Powers and checks and balances to limit governmental power. However, we know that for sure at two maybe all of the three branches of the government are left leaning. You can then see how the current administration over stepped it’s reach with govermental take overs. There lacks the checks/balances.
Fortunately, the people are getting wise and voting some of those people out of office. With that happening we can regain a better “balance” and more “checks” in order to keep the country running like the founding father intended.
The same will hold true for the WB Mayoral election.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 04, 2010 at 0921 hrs
Kelly,
Still waiting for that exact wording to prove your point.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 04, 2010 at 0937 hrs
“There lacks the checks/balances.” So because the legislature didn’t over turn the bailouts is what you are saying is “lacks of checks/balances”? Are you serious? THEY FOLLOWED THE CONSTITUTION. Obviously you say they lack checks and balances because you don’t agree with what they did. Just because you don’t agree with them DOES NOT MEAN they aren’t following the constitution.
An actual lack of checks/balances would be if the president did something without the authorization of the legislature.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 04, 2010 at 0942 hrs
I guess because they went after “big business”, “big banks” and “big oil” it’s fine, but what if they decided to keep going and come after “big teachers unions”...I think you may think differently.
An actual lack of checks/balances would be if the president did something without the authorization of the legislature.
Yes, exactly my point..he controls the legislature…no checks, no balances.
Like I said time and time again…I will not be able to convince you here, but come election time both national and the local Mayor’s race the people will speak and restore the checks and balances that are very much needed.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 04, 2010 at 1000 hrs
So does anyone know if that woman had her appointment approved or not?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 04, 2010 at 1001 hrs
Yes she was approved last night.
Now will somebody please fix the leaking roof, or must there be wording in the constitution specific to roof repairs on public owned structures.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 04, 2010 at 1018 hrs
Yes she was approved last night.
Now will somebody please fix the leaking roof, or must there be wording in the constitution specific to roof repairs on public owned structures.Do you know how the vote went down?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 04, 2010 at 1020 hrs
Thanks Crusher.
Carry on!
:zpopcorn:Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 04, 2010 at 1023 hrs
Also, will the cost of the repairs, if any to the public library become public?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 04, 2010 at 1046 hrs
“Yes, exactly my point..he controls the legislature…no checks, no balances.” What? He can force people to vote how he wants them to? I wish I had that power. I guess he controls the supreme court too?
I actually don’t like most unions. I think they are change resistant to almost everything. A lot of problems facing large companies are unions not taking pay cuts. They would rather see the business move or fail.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 04, 2010 at 1106 hrs
Ah, where have ya been. Obama and others in Congress gave favors in turn for their votes.
So liberal is against the teachers union…who would’a thought.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 04, 2010 at 1129 hrs
Hey Kelly, I’m still waiting for you to give me the exact wording from the constitution that doesn’t allow for taxes and bailouts. Did you find it yet?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 04, 2010 at 1159 hrs
Pat see if you call follow along, since you’ve failed to do so:
1) The Constitution relies on the ideas of Separation of Powers and checks and balances to limit governmental power.
2) Obama and his cronies buy votes with favors from two of the branches of governement.
3) That means that the idea on which the Constitution was founded, ie: check and balances was not given thus going
against the principle on which the Constition was founded.Now that the people finally are waking up the tide is changing and we will soon have the checks and balances needed to keep our country the way the founding fathers intended.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 04, 2010 at 1243 hrs
So, in other words, there is nothing in the constitution that doesn’t allow for bailouts.
What special deals were given to buy votes?
What votes did he buy on the supreme court exactly?
Again, just because they passed laws and bailouts that you did not agree with does not mean he is violating the constitution. An elected president and elected legislature passed these funding bills by the laws of the country. You do not know the meaning of the words that you use.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 04, 2010 at 1301 hrs
Kelly, as much as you’d like, you can’t just make stuff up that isn’t in the Constitution.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 04, 2010 at 1316 hrs
Hmm did I ever say he violated the Constitution? I said the founding Fathers, Constitution/Bill of Rights talked about limited government. You can’t limit government when the checks and balances are not in place to do. Absoulte power corrupts, absoulty.
Bought votes examples:
President Barack Obama nominated Scott M. Matheson, Jr. to the United States Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit. Scott Matheson, a former U.S. attorney, just happens to be the brother of Rep. Jim Matheson of Utah, undecided on health care reform.“But behind this claim that they’re doing this for the good of America, at least seven senators demanded deals worth tens or hundreds of millions of dollars to mostly benefit their home states, reports CBS News correspondent Wyatt Andrews.”
“It started with Mary Landrieu. When reports surfaced she had been swayed with a $100 million Medicaid deal just for Louisiana, she bragged it was actually $300 million.”
“Ben Nelson of Nebraska got the most unusual Medicaid deal. In exchange for his vote, federal taxpayers will now pay for most Medicaid expansion just in Nebraska.”
“And it’s a shame that that’s the only way we can come to consensus in this country is to buy votes,” Sen. Tom Coburn said.
So Pat does this mean you are for bailouts, higher taxes and sticking it to business who employee people? Does this mean you are for increased government? Does this mean you are for more government control? Are you in favor of the goverment take over of a car company? What car do you drive? How do feel about inflation? Are you for our exploding debt that will burden our children and our children’s children?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 04, 2010 at 1343 hrs
So Pat does this mean you are for bailouts, higher taxes and sticking it to business who employee people? Does this mean you are for increased government? Does this mean you are for more government control? Are you in favor of the goverment take over of a car company? What car do you drive? How do feel about inflation? Are you for our exploding debt that will burden our children and our children’s children?
Nope. I’m for what’s in the Constitution. We don’t need nannies at the Federal, State, or Local level. That includes nannies that want to impose their beliefs on others, including at the library.
The country use to be “By the people, for the people”. Now it’s “By the corporation, for the corporation”.
Oh, my car’s a ford. And I voted for a conservative for president in 2008.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 04, 2010 at 1439 hrs
Last time I checked we didn’t vote for a corporation for President. Besides w/o corporations most people would not be employed.
Oh I get it now….informing parents and letting parents have full control = nanny, but government take overs are not. Riiiiiight.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 04, 2010 at 1523 hrs
Back to the main topic
Molly was appointed to the Library Board on a 5-2 vote.
Duquaine and Hutchins played purity police and voted “no”.
Ginny loses a library battle again.
Dear Jesus, thank you for protecting me from your followers.
—-> insert index finger icon here <—-
By the way parents, the books for teens use a smaller font than the books for children (one way to tell if your kid is reading a children’s book). Small fonts are not good for children’s eyes during the early years of child development - repeated engagement encourages nearsightedness and (possibly) geekyness.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 04, 2010 at 1959 hrs
Two words: MAYORAL ELECTION
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 05, 2010 at 0632 hrs
“informing parents and letting parents have full control”
Again, they already have full control. Parents can already control if their kids go to the library. Parents already control what books their kids can check out.
What you are proposing is censorship. I offered the definition of censorship. I asked you to explain how what you are proposing is not censorship.
Here is the link again, http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/censoring
How is what you are proposing not censorship?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 05, 2010 at 0859 hrs
@Kelly 117: Well said.
@Takeshi: No loss here. All has been accomplished.
@lstw: Using the definition of censorship that you provide, materials would need to be removed and made unavailable. This was not asked for. Do you have something against assisting parents? Or do you like the carte blanche approach in providing all things for all ages? If so, perhaps you would be happy to lobby to change the law in order to provide porn magazines to all ages. Ya know, the brown wrapper stuff at the gas station? Let’s see some action, Lib.
Posted by GAMazy on May 05, 2010 at 0927 hrs
Why stop there gamazy, why not let kids decide when they can smoke, drink, drive, go to strip clubs?
I can’t seem to understand how you can relate printed words to pictures. How are they even close? With words, you need an imagination to put the words into a picture in your mind. With pictures, an imagination is not need. I didn’t think I would have to draw this distinction.
From the link I provided, “...to examine in order to suppress or delete anything considered objectionable.” I really don’t know how you came to the conclusion of “materials would need to be removed and made unavailable.” What kelly is proposing fits the usage perfectly.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 05, 2010 at 0950 hrs
Why stop there… why not let kids decide when they can smoke, drink, drive, go to strip clubs?
We don’t want to let minor children to decide…we want parents to sign off with their consent via a form. Thus giving the power directly to the parents.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 05, 2010 at 1128 hrs
@LSTW: So if I show you a picture of me giving you “the finger” and I also read out loud “I am giving you the finger.”, you would have to use your “imagination” to get what I meant when I spoke the words? Or would you wonder if I was pointing at you, giving the peace sign or telling you to hang tough? Please.
Posted by GAMazy on May 05, 2010 at 1136 hrs
The parents have the power to raise their kids. If they don’t want their kids to wander into the adult section of the library, they need to make themselves part of their children’s lives and go with them to the library.
The problem with the consent form is that the librarians are not babysitters and there are too many different things for parents to take offense at to keep track of what each child’s parents might object to.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 05, 2010 at 1251 hrs
“Please.” Yeah I know. The statement you made was fairly foolish but I felt I should respond to help you understand that. I am glad you agree with me.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 05, 2010 at 1410 hrs
The problem with the consent form is that the librarians are not babysitters and there are too many different things for parents to take offense at to keep track of what each child’s parents might object to.
They don’t want to take responsibility for their own children. They believe they should be the nanny for everyone elses children.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 05, 2010 at 1429 hrs
Quite the opposite Pat…we want to protect more children other than out own. Especially those to whom their parents may not be that involved.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 05, 2010 at 1452 hrs
Quite the opposite Pat…we want to protect more children other than out own. Especially those to whom their parents may not be that involved.
I don’t understand why you feel compelled to have to be a nanny to other peoples children when it’s none of your business. I know I don’t want you nannying my children or having anything remotely to do with them.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 05, 2010 at 1504 hrs
Gosh Pat…I do not want to nanny…I want p a r e n t s to make the decision, I want parents to be informed. Yes, even those parents who don’t supervise their own children.
Giving parents the right to consent is not being a nanny to the children.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 05, 2010 at 1723 hrs
And what nannies are going to make the decision about the content of the books for the entire community? :zzdeadhorse:
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 05, 2010 at 1751 hrs
Pat, it’s a beautiful evening…. Perhaps a walk and some fresh air is in order? Move on already.
Posted by GAMazy on May 05, 2010 at 1916 hrs
Ginny, I would love to, but there are anti-freedom and anti-liberty nannies in West Bend that think they know what’s best for everyone else in the community and I need to protect myself from freedom hating people like you.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 05, 2010 at 2037 hrs
Plus Ginny, don’t even address me unless you can answer the questions that have been asked of you.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 05, 2010 at 2045 hrs
@ Pat:
Would you be willing to read the material in question to eleven year olds?
I bet not. I’ve asked that question to every smut defender and can’t find one. I’ll be glad to schedule a reading. Maybe you can do the reading in the West Bend Library. I’ll bring video and capture the event… What do you think, Mr. Smut Defender?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 05, 2010 at 2151 hrs
@ Smeety:
I’d possibly read it to my 11 year old if my 11 year old really wanted me to read it to them. But I doubt my 11 year old would want me to read it to her as she is pretty smart and can read for herself.
As for reading it to someone elses child, I couldn’t make that decision for another parent as I’m not a nanny to others children. But I would allow them their individual liberty and freedom to choose for themselves based on their own personal beliefs and standards.
Have you read the books, completely, that are in question or going by what someone else is saying?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0608 hrs
Pat what if there was a public reading and everyone that showed up w/ their kids, then would you read it? I’ll bring my camera too.
Yes, I’ve read the books in question and they are just plain nasty.
Ginny, I would love to, but there are anti-freedom and anti-liberty nannies in West Bend that think they know what’s best for everyone else in the community and I need to protect myself from freedom hating people like you.
Pat, the comment above was something my kids would have said years ago. Good grief.
Not sure who mean by “nannies” because like I’ve explained at least a dozen times (listen up Pat), we want the parents to decide for the children via a consent form. I’d suggest a varied group of citizens, librarians and board members to review books and decide.
Pat by calling people names you are not really making a compelling argument…especially since we would like to give full disclosure to the parents and full control back to the parents. Yet you and some other refuse to give the power back to us, the parents. Why is that, do you crave power so much?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0636 hrs
Kelly,
What do you want in the consent form?
Would it be opt-in or opt-out?
Would it have tick marks for every choice?
What age would be old enough for children to go to the adult stacks?
Would you post a guard at the adult stacks so no children are allowed in?
Parents already have control. If they choose not to exercise it the way you want them to, that does not mean they are not exercising it.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0658 hrs
I’d suggest a varied group of citizens, librarians and board members to review books and decide.
Who is going to choose these people and what qualifications must they have so parents could be assured that they are the best people in the world to be making these decisions for everyone else. And, if they have an up or down opinion then isn’t that a form of censorship
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0737 hrs
Yet you and some other refuse to give the power back to us, the parents.
Parents have complete power over their children already. What don’t you understand about that?? You mean you want other parents to have a voice and say over other parents.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0741 hrs
@Kelly: People that believe in giving children materials that have explicit sex acts in them cannot possibly understand. I wouldn’t waste another breath on this. It’s just a copy and paste from other conversations. Same ALA-bowing liberals. Herein lies the problem:
“As for obscenity and child pornography, prosecutors and police have adequate tools to enforce criminal laws. Libraries are not a component of law enforcement efforts….” - American Library Association
“Here are words and phrases from “Looking For Alaska” most people, except ALA librarians, think are inappropriate for 12 year olds. The numbers represent the number of occurrences of such words, phrases, or variants. The grand total of 281 occurrences out of 216 pages with print yields 1.3 occurrences per page. No attempt was made to count religious vulgarities, but they were numerous as well.
Ass, Asshole, Bad ass: 28; Bastard: 7; Blow job, Oral sex, Ham smoked, Orgasm, Suck, Went down on, Fellatio: 11; Bitch: 13; Breasts, Boobs: 12; Butt: 7; Fart: 1; Fuck, Fucker, Fuck you, Motherfucker: 34; Hell, Holy hell: 21; Masturbation: 1; Miscellaneous (Nude, Suicide, Condoms, Puke, Hung myself, Male stripper, Weed, Marijuana, Deviant sexuality, [Religiously offensive terms], sex toys): uncounted; Penis, Balls, Dick, Hard on, Erection, Hung like a horse, Prick: 12; Porn: 9; Piss, Pissed, Pee: 27; Sex: 28; Slept with, Hooked up, Lost virginity, Making out, Get laid, Genital contact, Screw, Doing it: 21; Shit, Bullshit, Shitfaced: 49; Vagina: 1;
Grand Total: 281; Pages containing text: 216; Inappropriate words per page: 1.3.
Amazon has listed “shit” with 49 occurrences as one of the top 100 words used most frequently in the book. What a coincidence.”Adults who cannot and will not work within a community to assist parents in identifying books such as these have a questionable and detestable agenda, and are morally questionable.
Pat, I just addressed you.
Posted by GAMazy on May 06, 2010 at 0742 hrs
@ Pat: Yes, I’ve read several of the books in question. They possess absolutely no value, artistic or whatsoever to an eleven year old. I do not / would not want my children, when they are eleven, to have access to these books.
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It is interesting that you apparently believe in giving all eleven year old kids access to these books yet wouldn’t share them with the kids you wish to protect… It reads disingenuous…Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0813 hrs
Kelly/Smeety, let me get this straight.
You will organize, advertise & promote and produce an audio/visual record for posterity a public reading of material for a particular audience that you feel is inappropriate for a particular audience?
And Smeety, I believe you actually offered to pay an individual to perform this reading the one of the previous times this topic was on a thread here, right?
Yet you and some other refuse to give the power back to us, the parents.
Kelly what power has been taken away from the parents?
Ginny, didn’t you just expose children of any age to these words right here on a freely accessible site on the internet?
What is a religious vulgarity?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0815 hrs
You will organize, advertise & promote and produce an audio/visual record for posterity a public reading of material for a particular audience that you feel is inappropriate for a particular audience?
This is more of a challenge than a desire. I believe there is not one ‘credible’ person in the state of Wisconsin willing to stake their name and reputation their claim that this material is appropriate for eleven year old children.
I don’t remember if I offered money to someone. It doesn’t sound like something I’d do…
So, fact or opinion .... are you going to take me up on my offer?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0821 hrs
It is interesting that you apparently believe in giving all eleven year old kids access to these books yet wouldn’t share them with the kids you wish to protect… It reads disingenuous…
Huh??????
I said, “As for reading it to someone elses child, I couldn’t make that decision for another parent as I’m not a nanny to others children. But I would allow them their individual liberty and freedom to choose for themselves based on their own personal beliefs and standards.”That’s quite abit different than what you think you read.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0828 hrs
Pat, you may need to research this topic a little more…
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0832 hrs
Hey Smeety, I’ll take you up on your offer. Get everything organized and then let me know what time to show up at the library for the reading. You can post all the details here.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0838 hrs
Pat, here is some help for you. I don’t know if you are from West Bend, or what you know about this…
- - - -
The people that believe this material should remain in the eleven year old section of the library claim it’s the parents’ responsibility to monitor their kids while in the eleven year old’s section of the library. They also claim these books have artistic value and therefore not pornograrphy, despite being graphic and vulgar.
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The people that believe the material has no value to eleven year olds just want the books moved to any adult section of the library.
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Personally, I just don’t want my daughter coming across this material. So we go to the Kewaskum Library, where the librarian has a different philosophy….Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0840 hrs
This is more of a challenge than a desire.
So you are using it as a rhetorical device as opposed to an actual offer?
I don’t remember if I offered money to someone. It doesn’t sound like something I’d do…
Are you going to make me look it up? Or are you going to own it man up right now?
So, fact or opinion .... are you going to take me up on my offer?
Why bother Ginny just published the objectionable parts in #158.
It will probably be readily available throughout the WB student body by the end of the day.
Hope Kelly and yourself were able to record it.
And Ginny about 102 +/_ of your 307 words were objectionable to the general public according to your standards.
That’s a batting average well over .300, you are ready for the majors.
Nice.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0842 hrs
Pat,
Do you think you can find parents that’ll let you read to their eleven year olds?
And you have a deal. I’ll advertise and everything for you. Why don’t you start by providing us contact info that is not anonymous…
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0842 hrs
Personally, I just don’t want my daughter coming across this material. So we go to the Kewaskum Library, where the librarian has a different philosophy….
As well you should as a person who lives in a free society.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0842 hrs
Are you going to make me look it up? Or are you going to own it man up right now?
Go ahead and look it up. I don’t see what value it adds to any argument you are making. Maybe you’ll learn something along the way…
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0843 hrs
Do you think you can find parents that’ll let you read to their eleven year olds?
And you have a deal. I’ll advertise and everything for you.
It’s your party, you’ll have to do the leg work.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0845 hrs
That’s fine. I’ve been begging someone to do this for a long time. Even if with all of the advertising no parents want this material read to their kids and no one shows up, there is always digitally enhanced technology for youtube. I promise it will be great. Why don’t you start by providing me with some contact info, to show you are committed?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0847 hrs
You can let me know when to show up here.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0852 hrs
Even if with all of the advertising no parents want this material read to their kids and no one shows up, there is always digitally enhanced technology for youtube. I promise it will be great.
So you want to provide a reading of the material you define as “smut” on youtube to people of any age who have access to a computer? Sweet!
I think you might need the author’s permission for that, maybe not.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0855 hrs
Pat,
I’ll need your contact info for the flyers I’m going to post. And I need to make sure you are not like a sex offender.
So let’s have that contact information…
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Let’s do this! It will be great !!!!!Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0857 hrs
I’ll need your contact info for the flyers I’m going to post. And I need to make sure you are not like a sex offender.
No, you don’t need that information to organize a reading. Get cracking my man.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0901 hrs
I absolutely do need to confirm you are not a sex offender or other type of felon….
... unless, maybe you are a sex offender or felon and really, really want to read this smut to young kids…..
Pat, you give me contact info, and I don’t think I’ll have any other requests of you prior to the reading. And we’ll all find out who you are, anyways…
... unless you don’t really plan on going thru with it…
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0905 hrs
This is truly amusing. Pat has plenty to say, yet remains anonymous! How “manly” and courageous. How very credible it makes him appear. I, for one, will be happy to help with advertising and costs, Smeety. Count me in! And you know how to reach me. I’m in the phone book. I don’t hide.
Posted by GAMazy on May 06, 2010 at 0907 hrs
Get hold of the West Bend Library, and let them know that you would like to schedule a reading, in the library, of the specific book of your choice (you’ll have to let them know the title I’m sure) to a group of 11 year olds, and that you would like to video tape the reading to put on You Tube. You get their blessing, and I’ll be there.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0909 hrs
Smeety, I can take care of media contacts, as well, and professional videotaping. People who remain anonymous should not expect anyone to trust them to show up anywhere. Information, please, Pat?
Posted by GAMazy on May 06, 2010 at 0909 hrs
Pat,
Can I have contact info to ensure you are not a sex offender?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0913 hrs
And, Pat, I’ll need your full name for the flyers….
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0913 hrs
Can I have contact info to ensure you are not a sex offender?
Is that a requirement of the library in order for you to schedule your book reading?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0914 hrs
Nice Ginny, you can substitute smut with inappropriate if you like but same question to you?
So you want to provide a reading of the material you define as “smut” on youtube to people of any age who have access to a computer?
And Smeety why don’t you start with getting the author’s and publisher’s permission,
Sounds like Ginny will be happy to help and then you guys can post the respective responses on your websites.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0915 hrs
People who remain anonymous should not expect anyone to trust them to show up anywhere.
So who is Smeety?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0918 hrs
Smeety, it’s your hosted reading, not mine. I’ll be there to read the book you give me.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0918 hrs
Don’t worry yourself about the details, Pat. We can take care of the youtube issue. Don’t need an author’s consent to read his/her book out loud. We’ll just call it “Storytime in the YA Zone” or something else creative. Thanks for offering, Pat.
Posted by GAMazy on May 06, 2010 at 0921 hrs
My name is Michael Smith and I’m friends with many of the bloggers involved here. I’m not hard to find.
Pat, you aren’t going to give contact info, are you? My challenge is that no one is going to stake their reputation on their claim that reading this material to eleven year olds is appropriate. Your insistence on remaining anomymous is proof of this claim.
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Pat, you give me your contact info and I don’t believe I need another lick of work out of you until you show up for the reading.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0929 hrs
Don’t need an author’s consent to read his/her book out loud.
Actually you might Ginny, I think it depends on how you intend to represent the work and how the actual video is going to be used.
Jed/Owen how does Ginny’s comment #158 play out with your Creative Commons License?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0942 hrs
It’s your scheduled reading, not mine.
I’ll be glad to schedule a reading. Maybe you can do the reading in the West Bend Library. I’ll bring video and capture the event…
I can see the flyers
Michael Smith presents a reading of (Blank) at the West Bend Library on XX/XX/XX for 11 year olds only. Video taping for posting on YouTube will take place.Let me know that goes when the library approves. I’ll be watching for the schedule here. All I need to do is show up and read what you place in front of me.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 0950 hrs
The library…I say let’s do this at the Farmers Market. Please let me know…I’ll kick in some money for advertising, I’ll spread the word, I’ll contact the media. I know an artist who may be able to do the flyers.
I’m sure the library will put up signs and have a sign up sheet for the tots to come to a reading.
Thanks Pat for putting your money where you mouth is…so do we have a date yet?
To answer the question from some posts back as to what has been taken away from the parents:
1. Full disclosure of sexually explicit materials in the childrens section of the library. A letter/consent form will take care that.
2. Parental control over what their children can view when they are not able to be there with their child. A consent form will take of that.I could have an entire group to help set up chairs and so forth.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1000 hrs
Michael Smith presents
I am sure Ginny will want a bit of the spotlight.
Will the Eagle Forum and VCY be sponsoring the event as well Ginny?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1000 hrs
I’ll contact the media
Not to worry Kelly I already have.
What is your last name and municipality of residence?
I want to make sure you get full credit for your involvement.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1006 hrs
Just me, your average WB citizen/taxpayer, exercising my freedoms. That’s it!
Posted by GAMazy on May 06, 2010 at 1009 hrs
I read the list of words included in this book and I had to laugh at some of them. Suck, butt, fart, puke, balls, dick, piss, pissed, pee, making out, screw.
You don’t like this book or books similar to these. So you don’t take your kids to the library. You don’t like that parents may/may not know about this book or books like these.
Tough.
You don’t get to make decisions regarding how other parents raise their kids. Get over yourself. Stop trying to force your value system on other people. Guess what? People aren’t always going to behave how you want them to. I would think someone over the age of 18 would have known this by now.
And I am sure the flyers you want to print up aren’t going to mention anything regarding your opinions about what book you want pat to read. Nothing along the lines of “Come listen to the smutty/pornographic/ugly book reading by pat who thinks it is ok for your kids to read it.”
You want to make sure pat is not some convicted child molester, have West Bend police make an officer stop by before the reading to run pat’s id. Nothing more is needed. But then again, that wouldn’t satisfy you desire to publicly lynch pat.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1010 hrs
Pat,
My name won’t be on the flier, your name will be if you ever decide you want to do this and provide your contact info.
As I wrote earlier, I do not believe any person in the state of Wisconsin wants to be associated with reading this material to eleven year old children. No one is willing to stake their reputation and name on this. Pat is proof of this. He is stopping at the roughly the same point as the rest of the people I’ve had this conversation with.
Pat, all I need is your contact info for the fliers. Parents will need to discuss any concerns they may have with you. Also I need to confirm you are not a sex offender.
Pat… if you are truly serious, which I hope you are, please give contact info. I do not take your claim as serious at this point.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1011 hrs
Not to worry Kelly I already have.
@ FOO: The media is disinterested in an event that has anonymous, uncommitted keynote presenters. Until you have your date, time, and all pertinent information, you have nothing to tell. Your brag is disingenuous, at best.
Posted by GAMazy on May 06, 2010 at 1012 hrs
My name won’t be on the flier, your name will be if you ever decide you want to do this and provide your contact info.
As I wrote earlier, I do not believe any person in the state of Wisconsin wants to be associated with reading this material to eleven year old children. No one is willing to stake their reputation and name on this. Pat is proof of this. He is stopping at the roughly the same point as the rest of the people I’ve had this conversation with.
Pat, all I need is your contact info for the fliers. Parents will need to discuss any concerns they may have with you. Also I need to confirm you are not a sex offender.
Sorry Smeety, it’s your party, not mine. You take the credit. I’m just taking you up on the challenge of reading what you put in front of me at the Library.
I’ve said in a previous post: “As for reading it to someone elses child, I couldn’t make that decision for another parent as I’m not a nanny to others children. But I would allow them their individual liberty and freedom to choose for themselves based on their own personal beliefs and standards.”
You want someone to read this to 11 year olds. I said I’d do the reading for you. Again, it’s your party not mine. I’ll be there to read.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1024 hrs
@Pat: Coward and liar.
End of subject.
Posted by GAMazy on May 06, 2010 at 1025 hrs
The media is disinterested in an event that has anonymous, uncommitted keynote presenters.
Quite the contrary Ginny.
This is already great story. The very people who have wanted to limit access to certain literature in the WB Library now want to sponsor and organize a very public reading of the material and then want to indiscriminately disseminate that material by posting a video of the public reading of the material on the internet.
That is the kind of story you cannot make up. Nobody would believe it.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1035 hrs
I’ll be there to read the material Smeety puts in front of me at his organized reading for 11 year olds in the West Bend Library. Hopefully Smeety at my side as I read the material he gives me.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1043 hrs
Just me, your average WB citizen/taxpayer, exercising my freedoms. That’s it!
Who provided you with the telephone service for your WB Concerned Citizens effort?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1046 hrs
FO,
I believe you should follow up on this story as much as possible. Call the news outlets. It’s quite a story.
Pat ... you are proving my point here. You are unwilling to stake your name in association with reading this smut to children. How can I believe you would actually stand before eleven year olds and a camera when you can’t even give me your contact info? Are you a sex offender or felon that has a deep desire to read this material to kids? You keep avoiding these questions…
I reiterate ... your work is pretty much done once you give contact info. If you provide me with an email, we can set up offline….
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1048 hrs
This is already great story. The very people who have wanted to limit access to certain literature in the WB Library now want to sponsor and organize a very public reading of the material and then want to indiscriminately disseminate that material by posting a video of the public reading of the material on the internet.
Headline:
Self Rightious Locals sponsor reading of objectionable material to 11 years olds at West Bend Library.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1048 hrs
Again Smeety, it’s your party. Set it up and I’ll be there to read for you.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1050 hrs
“The media is disinterested…” Why would you need to contact the media? Is the media contacted EVERY time someone does a reading at the library.
NO.
Your only motivation for this is to make it a circus to fit your intended message.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1053 hrs
Pat, why are you unwilling to provide contact info?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1112 hrs
Because it’s your party. I’m only going to show up and read.
Once you contact the library in West Bend and get your request approved let me know and we will make arrangements for the time I need to be there to read for you. The library will only need to have your information as it is you who is organizing this reading for 11 year old children.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1126 hrs
I’ll check with the library this weekend to see if you’ve made the request yet.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1127 hrs
Smeety, the reader is not the story here.
You yourself asked for “anyone” to come forward.
The material you find inappropriate/objectionable and your proposed use and dissemination of it is.
Like I said before the first thing y’all need to do is contact the author and publisher, given your expressed intentions this does not seem like it would fall into the category of personal use.
At some point you are going to need to think about risk management as well.
Get crackin’ my man, Kelly and Ginny are breathlessly waiting to help and we need a confirmed time & place to assure you a good turnout and the attention it deserves.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1133 hrs
Why does it have to be at the library? In fact I will go so far to say that Pat doesn’t even have to give her name until the day of the event. I just want her to show up and put her money where her mouth is. In fact anyone who is willing to read these books can show up and read them to the crowd.
Smeety, I think the Farmers Market would be a great place to have the reading. Lots of families all ready there. We could still do the flyers and we could still contact the media letting them know a reading will be held at the Farmers Market.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1135 hrs
I think the Farmers Market would be a great place to have the reading. Lots of families all ready there.
Why not a float in the 4th of July parade. Think of the potential audience and exposure.
Kelly, Ginny and Smeety could ride in the back of the pickup pulling the float and really get some recognition and face time for their efforts.
Or maybe at dusk under the lights just before the fireworks.
I am getting goose bumps just thinking about it.
Power to the People!
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1151 hrs
I think the Farmers Market would be a great place to have the reading. Lots of families all ready there. We could still do the flyers and we could still contact the media letting them know a reading will be held at the Farmers Market.
I love it. You can do it the week after the Library event. The papers read, Eagle Forum to sponsor second smut reading. This week at the West Bend Farmers Market. Your host today is Michael Smith. Should make for a great media event.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1156 hrs
So Pat, what’s your point with your comment above #12?
Did you not say you’d do the reading?
I wonder if Owen will let the bloggers know that Pat will be reading select books from our own public library. FOO don’t be jealous you can read a book too.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1204 hrs
Your host today is some gutless coward named Pat who has no email or contact info whatsoever. He may or may not be a felon or child sex offender, we are not sure. What we do know is that his testicles are the size of raisins and will likely not show up…
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Request has been made.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1205 hrs
News Flash:
Michael Smith of Kewaskum, in association with the Washington County Eagles Forum, will be hosting a reading of smut to 11 year olds.
Ya, that has a ring to it.
Set it up. I’ll read.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1212 hrs
@Pat: No you won’t. You don’t even have the testicles to provide your real name.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1214 hrs
Request has been made.
Date/time please?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1215 hrs
My request is for evening mid-week in approx. six weeks.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1217 hrs
I’ll get the word out to some of the other blogs that Michael Smith of Kewaskum is in the planning stages of hosting a smut reading event for 11 year olds. Should generate a lot of interest and guarantee a most excellent turn out.
Ginny, make sure you get this up on your site too.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1219 hrs
... and for the record, I’m not associated with the Eagles Forum.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1219 hrs
Pat, any chance you can man-up and provide contact info?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1220 hrs
FOO don’t be jealous you can read a book too.
Don’t worry about me ma’am, I’ll just be covering the story.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1222 hrs
Pat, any chance you can man-up and provide contact info?
And who would that benefit? I’m only the reader at the event. I don’t want to take the spot light away from Michael Smith of Kewaskum Wisconsin.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1223 hrs
... and for the record, I’m not associated with the Eagles Forum.
You are now. Unless Ginny backs out?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1226 hrs
For one, it would give you credibility. Second, we could prove you are not a sex offender or felon (unless you are)...
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1226 hrs
For one, it would give you credibility. Second, we could prove you are not a sex offender or felon (unless you are)...
Nah, that’s not your real reason. Me smells a different reason eminating from Michael D. Smith of Kewaskum.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1230 hrs
Nah, that’s not your real reason. Me smells a different reason eminating from Michael D. Smith of Kewaskum.
by the way, you are way off here…. but nice try to fish for my data. It’s a nice name if you want a bit of privacy.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1233 hrs
by the way, you are way off here…. but nice try to fish for my data. It’s a nice name if you want a bit of privacy.
Okay Mike
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1243 hrs
... this coming from some turd who can’t even provide a real email…
——-
but try the other direction from West Bend…Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1245 hrs
... this coming from some turd who can’t even provide a real email…
Ouch…....now that really hurt Mike.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1250 hrs
“What we do know is that his testicles are the size of raisins and will likely not show up…” I can’t believe you used this language. What about the children??!??
Pat, you are right. They don’t want your contact info for the library, you could call them yourself and give it to them. I am sure they want to create those “flyers” they were talking about before. One could only imagine what these freedom haters would put on that flyer.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1253 hrs
Hey, was “turd” included in the list of offensive words??
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1253 hrs
Better yet, read this blog chain to our kids- it’s very informative for them.
It’s a Text Book example of what a bunch of hypocrites the Libbys are.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1333 hrs
Trying to deflect with the Michael Smith comment is not working…move on.
I still say we don’t need any contact information. If no one shows we will know. Absence will speak volumes!
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1333 hrs
Trying to deflect with the Michael Smith comment is not working…move on.
I still say we don’t need any contact information. If no one shows we will know. Absence will speak volumes!
No deflection. Just giving credit to the gentleman who will be hosting the smut reading at the library. I’m just going to be his reader.
I’m getting the word out to other blogs of the up coming smut reading event hosted by Michael Smith.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1344 hrs
Mikes wife and children are going to be so proud of him when he pulls this off.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1346 hrs
As long as you are there reading the rest doesn’t matter.
Is there a location set yet, Smeety?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1403 hrs
As long as you are there reading the rest doesn’t matter.
Is there a location set yet, Smeety?
I’m only doing my reading in the library as the issue is about the books being in the library and 11 year olds having access to them. I’ll watch the Farmers Market reading. Maybe you can read there Kelly??Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1412 hrs
If only there was an “unsubscribe” link in the email updates here! Sheesh.
Posted by scott on May 06, 2010 at 1413 hrs
Well, now .... who’s doing the legwork? Me or you, Cowardly Pat? Looks like I need to make my request to Ms. Deiss as well…..
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1415 hrs
No deflection. Just giving credit to the gentleman who will be hosting the smut reading at the library
So you admit it’s smut!——You have no credibility.
Typical Libby Hypocrite.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1432 hrs
Sorry Pat I think reading those books will get me a fine or jail time. Curious as to why u won’t read them Amy where else?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1450 hrs
Curious as to why u won’t read them Amy where else?
You can find your answer in
#152 & #164Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1509 hrs
So you admit it’s smut!——You have no credibility.
Typical Libby Hypocrite.Those are Mikes words.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1511 hrs
Ok I’m don’t here for the day. (loud cheers of delight)
Let me know how things progress Mike.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1513 hrs
“Looking for Alaska” isn’t for 12 year olds. It’s a “young adult” book, which generally targets people between 14-21 years old. In a young adult section, you will have a variety of books, some catering to the 14 year olds, some catering to the 21 year olds. That’s where the parents come in.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1543 hrs
Sure the books are IN the library, but the issue is about them being read to young children. Just because they are IN the library doesn’t mean they have to be read IN the library. What are you worried about?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1544 hrs
So books in the eleven year old section of the library aren’t meant for eleven year olds ... now we are making progress….
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1547 hrs
I’d say things are progressing nicely, except Pat won’t read the books just any where. I find that very interesting.
Maybe that’s the problem 14 year olds are not young adults…they are young teenagers.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1549 hrs
So books in the eleven year old section of the library aren’t meant for eleven year olds ... now we are making progress….
Does the concept of an age range confuse you?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1551 hrs
I’d say things are progressing nicely, except Pat won’t read the books just any where. I find that very interesting.
I wouldn’t read an Ann Coulter book aloud to conservative adults, I wouldn’t read the bible aloud to a group of Christians, and I wouldn’t read the Oxford English Dictionary aloud to anyone.
I don’t see how this would automatically deem any of those books as “inappropriate”.
Reading can be personal, believe it or not.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1553 hrs
Does the concept of an age range confuse you?
No, but apparently it confuses the library….
I see school is out, anon…
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1555 hrs
I think reading those books will get me a fine or jail time.
And do Smeety and Ginny think the same thing?Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1706 hrs
I contend that the books in questions can not be read out loud in a public setting (not just the library aka safety net) to a group of children with out someone calling the Police and getting in trouble.
Pat seems to think it would be fine, yet she refuses to read these books out loud to children unless it is in the saftey of her beloved library. Would you read them at a book store?
Why doesn’t the library rearrange the age groupings? Really 14-21 is a strange age range.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 1743 hrs
Still on the read aloud thing that a couple of twats have been tossing out since the original debacle began.
Hmm…, If one is reading a whole YA book to a young adult, the kid must be blind or have some other sort of disability. Reading a whole young adult book to a kid 8th grade or younger just to test the reputed dirty bits on em is just plain ignorant parenting. Reading just the reputed dirty bits to a kid is the sign of an imbecile. Reading those same bits, just the bits, to a crowd of adults is the sign of a would-be censor.
The stuff in question ain’t porn, there’s a point to a book with these so called controversial scenes in the mix, and the sex before marriage thing is always treated with a ominous, dark, pessimistic pen in these young adult novels (prove me wrong: Give us a young adult title with lukewarm reviews or better that in its entirety trashes USA puritan christian sexual values). Good luck.
Teens get porn from the Internet and unguarded stashes of porno-magazines. It’s too much work and too little reward to sift through all the pages in one of these controversial young adults books to get off and get corrupted as some of pseudo-quasi-semi experts would have us believe, even if some moralist went through all the effort to identify the pages for us and young readers (PABBIS). Maybe putting a X tag on the books so the teens and younger kids know how to find them will actually get young-uns to read more (“Hey, John’s parents let him read a book with a X on it. Let’s go to his house!”), which all and all would be a good thing compared to their ingestion of video games and brain-poisoning TV shows.
Common sense dictates you ask a teen and they’ll tell you the same thing. Strange, no teen-victim readers have come forward to sue the authors for damages, eh?
I’d love to watch any of you all read any young adult book in its entirety to a teen in public. Better pay ‘em to sit there and listen to you drone. You’ll be on you tube in hours, and the comments won’t be commendable.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 06, 2010 at 2344 hrs
First off these books are geared for the age of 11, not a teen.
Second, just because teens can access porn through internet and a stash of magazines does an argument make. If that were the case you could use the same argument for booze or ciagrettes.Reading a whole young adult book to a kid 8th grade or younger just to test the reputed dirty bits on em is just plain ignorant parenting.
Why would reading the entire book be ignorant?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 07, 2010 at 0639 hrs
The American Library Association identified young adults as ages 12-18.
Posted by GAMazy on May 07, 2010 at 0936 hrs
First off these books are geared for the age of 11, not a teen.
Are you being disingenuous or simply lying? The same book an 18 year old will read may not be the same book an 11 year old will read. Young Adults is a range and not every book will be for everyone within that range.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 07, 2010 at 0950 hrs
The American Library Association identified young adults as ages 12-18.
I hope we all know the ALA isn’t the final word on this definition, nor does the definition truly matter. I think most reasonably sane individuals understand it’s a range.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 07, 2010 at 0953 hrs
No, but apparently it confuses the library….
I see school is out, anon…
The library understands it perfectly, which is why they rightfully won the battle.
Do you feel bad having been handled by somebody you think is in school?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 07, 2010 at 0955 hrs
yes, I feel horrible
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 07, 2010 at 1035 hrs
Anyone else detect Pat’s genuine fear? One thing he doesn’t seem to understand is that Smeety does not want this reading to take place, nor does he want the material in question to be in the 11 year old section. He wants to prove that no one supporting the book’s location in the library would be willing to read it to the same group of children that might happen upon it. Pat is proving his point nicely by not sending Smeety his contact info. Congratulations on winning your argument Smeety.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 09, 2010 at 1202 hrs
The material that Smeety finds objectionable in the Perks for Wallflowers has been read by a credible person in public here in West Bend. It was read to parents and children in attendance last year at Silverbrook middle school by Ginny Maziarka. The police didn’t show up and arrest her.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 09, 2010 at 1431 hrs
Someone should come forward and do a public reading to prove the point that they would be arrested. The group would then be able to go to court and prove that what was read was porn, and then get it removed from the library.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 09, 2010 at 1620 hrs
We finally have a brave volunteer!
Please post the place and time.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 09, 2010 at 1714 hrs
@Lost in WB #263: You are incorrect. No minors were present during the Silverbrook meeting you refer to. Please be sure to accurately check your facts before you make disingenuous statements.
Posted by GAMazy on May 09, 2010 at 2133 hrs
Silverbrook Middle School was the venue chosen by Ginny to share sexually explicit materials? A middle school, but not a high school? Ah, this was symbolic of the literate young minds “corrupted” by the books (supported by tons of documented peer reviewed research studies) that were thrust at them by a static bookshelves full of hundreds of other books all stocked by book review reading, freedom of speech and access to information supporting, commie/leftie librarians while unsuspecting?, absent?, ignorant?, naive?, supportive? parents backs were turned.
Wow, what a great use of a school district building by a taxpayer. Will you post a copy of the school district thank you letter? ...perhaps a letter to the taxpayers for footing the bill for this venue? Perhaps hold on that letter until you read the select tasty bits in a park to aghast minors (provided by your fans) and are arrested thus proving your point. Please make sure everyone is aware you were arrested for using a megaphone without a permit. Oh, yea, you ain’t got the ovaries of brass to do this. Such a twat idea.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 09, 2010 at 2231 hrs
Someone should come forward and do a public reading to prove the point that they would be arrested. The group would then be able to go to court and prove that what was read was porn, and then get it removed from the library.
And you would think that anyone with a real strength of conviction would be willing to do that themselves instead of soliciting a sacrificial lamb.
I actually admire Kelly for her candor and honesty in revealing her motivations.
I think that Smeety and Ginny apparently pleading the 5th to the question in #253 speaks for itself.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 09, 2010 at 2237 hrs
Fact or opinion, The people with real strength of conviction are the ones trying to get the questionable material moved into the adult section. The people that have no real strength of conviction are the ones not volunteering -you- to do a reading of this material to 11 year olds. The sole motivation for asking people to do a reading is to reveal the obvious fact that no sane adult wants 11 years olds to read it. Pat has disappeared. Maybe you should step up and do the reading?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 10, 2010 at 0158 hrs
The people with real strength of conviction are the ones trying to get the questionable material moved into the adult section.
You mean the people who are trying to solicit someone to do what they believe is a crime and then entice children into being exposed to what they believe is inappropriate for them?
Noble beings I am sure????
If this is so clear cut why don’t they just take the material to a district attorney or a judge and make their case instead of skulking around here?
Or better yet why don’t they run for an elected office with that as their platform plank?
Pathetic!
Let’s make sure we raise our kid’s to rely on government to tell them what to read and what to think.
I know, I know, we don’t want no damn government nannyism until we do.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 10, 2010 at 0312 hrs
Pat has disappeared.
I’m still here.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 10, 2010 at 0550 hrs
Silverbrook Middle School was the venue chosen by Ginny to share sexually explicit materials?—-No deflection. Just giving credit to the gentleman who will be hosting the smut reading at the library.[/i
So you Libby’s admit “It’s smut” and Sexually Explicit” but still make it available to 11 year olds?
Anything goes eh??
Teens get porn from the Internet and unguarded stashes of porno-magazines.
I suppose under that argument we should start to sell Beer and Wine to them. Hell they can get that easily too. Do ou Libby’s hear yourself, you sure say some stupid stuff.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 10, 2010 at 0915 hrs
The sole motivation for asking people to do a reading is to reveal the obvious fact that no sane adult wants 11 years olds to read it.
This is an incredible stretch; an impressive logical fallacy.
Again…reading can be personal.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 10, 2010 at 0952 hrs
You mean the people who are trying to solicit someone to do what they believe is a crime and then entice children into being exposed to what they believe is inappropriate for them?
Or could it be we are trying to get people who claim they believe in these books to put their money where their mouth is. Sort of a put up or shut up. If you truely think these sexually explicit books are hunky-dory for 11 year olds then you would be more than willing to read them out in the open, not just with in the walls of the library. If it’s not a “crime” or “sexually explicit” then you should have no problem with it.
You can try to argue that books are personal, but if you truely believe it’s fine you would stand up for it and read them out loud to 11 year olds.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 10, 2010 at 1253 hrs
If you truely think these sexually explicit books are hunky-dory for 11 year olds then you would be more than willing to read them out in the open, not just with in the walls of the library. If it’s not a “crime” or “sexually explicit” then you should have no problem with it.
Ginny already did this last year at Silverbrook Middle School without being arrested. End of story.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 10, 2010 at 1347 hrs
Fact or opinion, No need to get emotional. Stick to logic. I don’t want a reading for 11 year olds and you don’t want a reading for 11 year olds but yet you need them to have access to this material. It’s easy to challenge the hypocrites here to read this material to 11 year olds because no one will do it because they realize it is wrong. 11 year olds should not read it.
Anon, do you want an 11 year old to read this material? Assuming you are an adult, this is a yes or no question.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 10, 2010 at 2022 hrs
Ginny already did this last year at Silverbrook Middle School without being arrested. End of story.
Lost, nice try at deflection, but your statement is incorrect.
Wowzer, you are correct, no one here will do it…and that speaks v o l u m e s.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 11, 2010 at 0812 hrs
Fact or opinion, No need to get emotional.
Be still my pounding heart!
Stick to logic
OK! Your premise.
I don’t want a reading for 11 year olds and you don’t want a reading for 11 year olds but yet you need them to have access to this material.
Your premise is based on?
It’s easy to challenge the hypocrites here to read this material to 11 year olds because no one will do it because they realize it is wrong. 11 year olds should not read it.
Again your basis is?
I would also like an explanation of your fixation on 11 year olds?
I believe the literature being discussed is designated as being appropriate for YA readers?
Per Ginny.
The American Library Association identified young adults as ages 12-18.
OK, that’s a start. Later:)
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 11, 2010 at 0944 hrs
Premise? Basis? Common sense. While reading your comments the issue is now clear as a bell. You think it is ok for a 12 year old to read about drunken sex and blow jobs and I do not. Not it matters to you or the ALA, but the author intended the book for high school students.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 12, 2010 at 1345 hrs
Stick to logic.
Guess you changed your tune.
Premise? Basis? Common sense.
And please do not tell me what I think when you obviously don’t.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 12, 2010 at 1351 hrs
A logical question can be answered yes or no. Should a 12 year old read about drunken sex and blow jobs? I say no, you say yes. I haven’t changed my tune and you haven’t denied that the statement “Fact or Opinion thinks 12 year olds should read about drunken sex and blowjobs” is true.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 12, 2010 at 1614 hrs
I’d rather have my 12 year old read a good book which contained some of these adult matters than have them read a shitty book which contained nothing at all. That’s always been my position with movies, too. I didn’t care if there was a scene with some bare breasts and a fade to black love scene as much as I cared that the movie be good and have some literary value.
I did let my school age kids watch Ren & Stimpy. I did not let them watch Scooby Doo.
Know what I’m getting at?
Posted by scott on May 12, 2010 at 1620 hrs
Your premise, much like your definition of logic, is based on a fallacy.
I say no, you say yes.
Really where did I say that? Comment and verse please?
Without a proof your statement is false.
I haven’t changed my tune and you haven’t denied that the statement “Fact or Opinion thinks 12 year olds should read about drunken sex and blowjobs” is true.
And why, or for that matter how, should I deny, or accept, a conclusion with a premise that is based on a fallacy.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 12, 2010 at 1641 hrs
OK enough BS.
I believe that a parent should decide what is appropriate for their child.
Do you agree or disagree?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 12, 2010 at 1707 hrs
FOO, Do you believe that parent should be fully informed of what materials their children may have access to? (Not just assume that they know)
Do you believe that a child who lacks parental involvment should have access to sexually explicit books?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 12, 2010 at 1752 hrs
I believe that anyone who would try and pull off what Smeety, Ginny and yourself with this whole “reading” issue is in no position to judge what is moral or immoral , and maybe not even legal or illegal.
Words like reprehensible and loathsome come to mind when it crosses my mind.
We are done here.
It’s only entertaining having a battle of wits with someone who has some.
This is starting to feel like working a heavy bag.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 12, 2010 at 1832 hrs
I believe that anyone who would try and pull off what Smeety, Ginny and yourself with this whole “reading” issue is in no position to judge what is moral or immoral , and maybe not even legal or illegal.
I’m not necessarily claiming any moral or legal issues. I’m merely pointing out that no one is willing to actually read this material to eleven year olds…all we have this time around, roughly round five or six, is some anonymous guy or girl named Pat…
Words like reprehensible and loathsome come to mind when it crosses my mind.
Empty rhetoric. Everyone has a line with regard to this material. Opinion has probably never considered whether this material is okay for eight year olds? or four year olds? My line is 15-16 yrs. old for my kids, and I don’t want my kids to have access to this material until then; and I don’t buy the library’s cop-out that parents should need to be with their twelve and thirteen year old kids at all times w/o exception while investigating books in the library…
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 12, 2010 at 2030 hrs
I’m still here. Waiting for Mike Smith to setup the reading at the West Bend Library. I’m not afraid to read. But it’s your gig Mike. Your the one who what’s a book read to 11 year olds.
I’ve made it perfectly clear, “As for reading it to someone elses child, I couldn’t make that decision for another parent as I’m not a nanny to others children. But I would allow them their individual liberty and freedom to choose for themselves based on their own personal beliefs and standards.”
You set it up at the library Mike, and I’ll read. So far I don’t see it on the library schedule.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 12, 2010 at 2039 hrs
You are hiding.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 12, 2010 at 2044 hrs
I need to create and post a video. I’m thinking about reading passages of the books online, meanwhile showing all of the quotes from the porn protectors. The visualization would be powerful.
Referendum. Referendum. Referendum.
Posted by Smeety on July 05, 2009 at 1654 hrsMike, Do you have the URL of you reading passages? I’d like to see the video.
Pay attention. Where did I infer I wanted a small group to decide where books go? Aren’t I the one suggesting referendum?
Referendum. Referendum. Referendum.
Posted by Smeety on July 07, 2009 at 0844 hrsHow you doing with getting the referendum organized and on the ballot?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 0605 hrs
Pat I emailed you the link.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 0718 hrs
Mike, Post the link online here for everyone to enjoy. That is if you really did it, which I doubt.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 0752 hrs
Pat, you are more than welcome to share the link I emailed you with everyone.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 0807 hrs
Send it again and I will. Didn’t go through the first time. It was blocked as spam.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 0811 hrs
sent
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 0813 hrs
Still didn’t get it. Check my other email on this and send it.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 0816 hrs
sent again
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 0818 hrs
Smeety, have you contacted the media? I know a few who may be interested.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 0818 hrs
Kelly,
Please email me directly. I’d like to take offline.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 0821 hrs
Still didn’t get it. I guess you’ll have to post. Unless your lying, which I know you are.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 0823 hrs
Pat,
You are going to have to provide a real email…
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 0837 hrs
I did. Man up and post it liar.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 0840 hrs
We are done here until you provide a real email, coward.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 0846 hrs
I knew you were lying. What color dress are you wearing today.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 0849 hrs
nice strawman. your email is fake. It keeps getting bounced back to me…
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 0856 hrs
Pat, Really…did you have to say that? Wow. Not a proud day for Pat.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 0858 hrs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-tI5JEcUL8
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 0902 hrs
How ‘bout that referendum Mike? That all talk and no action too?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 0903 hrs
Yes, all talk and no action.
Actually, the shake up with the library board and upcoming mayoral election is enough to keep me happy…
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 0907 hrs
So, FOO pulled the classic internet blog retreat by tossing out a few petty insults and declaring himself intellectually above the fray. Now we have Pat. Pat, do you think reading about drunken sex and blow jobs to kids under the age of 13 is a good idea? Considering that the author didn’t target to children that young, I’d like to hear why you would do it.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 0929 hrs
And you are back trying to make the same tired argument that parents should not decide, and be responsible for, what their children read?
Is that a yes or a no?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 0953 hrs
FOO I agree…parents should decide so let’s get that consent form ready. Unless you don’t want full disclosure to parents.
I think the Mayoral election will prove to be interesting so say the least.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1001 hrs
And you are back trying to make the same tired argument that parents should not decide, and be responsible for, what their children read?
No, that’s not the argument at all. But you do provide the same tired fallback strawman…
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1002 hrs
I think the Mayoral election will prove to be interesting so say the least.
I can’t wait either. Industry will be chomping at the bit to locate in West Bend. Unemployment will plummit to an all time low. Worthless spending will end. Property taxes will drop to next to nothing. It’ll be the utopia of Wisconsin that everyone else will envy. Of course, more then they already do.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1009 hrs
No, that’s not the argument at all.
What are you talking about? It is the very heart of the issue?
My line is 15-16 yrs. old for my kids, and I don’t want my kids to have access to this material until then;
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1028 hrs
Opinion, where is your line? Unless you believe Hustler should be in the kids section of the library, you have a line….
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1033 hrs
Opinion, where is your line? Unless you believe Hustler should be in the kids section of the library, you have a line….
Smeety, do you really not get it?
What my line, your line or whoever’s line is in determining what is appropriate for their children, it is just that.
It is their line, their child and their responsibility, not yours or anyone else.
My boy is five, he’s into Thomas the Tank engine right now.
Is that OK with you?
How about you Wowzer?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1047 hrs
You didn’t answer my question.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1050 hrs
And why don’t you post a link to your video right here.
Even Ginny would approve.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1054 hrs
Smeety, do you really not get it?
Thank you for answering mine.
You didn’t answer my question.
Yes, I did.
What my line, your line or whoever’s line is in determining what is appropriate for their children, it is just that.
It is their line, their child and their responsibility, not yours or anyone else.
That is my line and that is the issue.
What a brick.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1102 hrs
——- Forwarded Message——
From: Mike Smith <smitty1037@yahoo.com>
To: .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
Sent: Thu, May 13, 2010 7:17:59 AM
Subject: urlwww.gofuckyourselfyoufuckingcoward.com
Are you going to answer my question? Where is your line?Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1104 hrs
Opinion:
Should Hustler be allowed in the children’s section of the Library? (being it’s the parent’s responsibility to guard them from these materials)
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1105 hrs
Using FOO style logic, there should be no age restrictions at all in the library because only the parents are responsible for what their children read. FOO, do you think 12 year olds should read about drunken sex and blow jobs? That’s a yes or no question. What do you think about the author’s intention to target this book to high schoolers, not 12 year olds?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1111 hrs
Do you think 12 year olds should read about incest and rape and murder? It’s a yes or no question. (Or is it?)
Posted by scott on May 13, 2010 at 1113 hrs
Smeety the link does work.
Your search - http://www.gofuckyourselfyoufuckingcoward.com - did not match any documents.
Suggestions:
* Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
* Try different keywords.
* Try more general keywords.Just like you.
Are you going to answer my question? Where is your line?
Like I said my boy is 5, I think he would be a little young for it.
I don’t know do you think he would enjoy the pictures? They still have them in there right?
Let’s play this out.
What is the danger of exposing a child to material that is inappropriate for their age?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1120 hrs
That’s rich! I love it. Mike Smith shows his true colors. Hopefully no childrens eyes will see this.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1122 hrs
Sorry that should read.
Smeety the link does not work.
Your search - http://www.gofuckyourselfyoufuckingcoward.com - did not match any documents.
Suggestions:
* Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
* Try different keywords.
* Try more general keywords.Just like you.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1124 hrs
Okay, I’ll spoil the surprise! I think the bible should be removed from the children’s section. Plus it should have a warning label. It depicts incest, rape, murder and all kinds of depravity. Do you want kids reading about those things? Yes or no.
Posted by scott on May 13, 2010 at 1125 hrs
Wowzers: The problem Opinion has is that when he admits their is a line he has to abandon his philosophical ‘all access’ argument.
Opinion: Where is your line? Hustlers in the kids section?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1128 hrs
Using FOO style logic, there should be no age restrictions at all in the library because only the parents are responsible for what their children read.
· If a child under age 7 is found to be unattended or is involved in
inappropriate or disruptive behavior, library employees will try to find
the parent or caregiver and explain the library’s policy. If the parent or
caregiver can’t be found, or if the child is found unattended or engaged in
disruptive behavior again, the police will be called.· Children older than 7 are welcome to use the library appropriately on
their own. Their parents, however, are still responsible for the actions of
their children. Children of this age range who use inappropriate or
disruptive behavior may be asked to leave the library. If a child of this
age is not able to use the library appropriately or is not able to leave
the library without an adult, that child should not be left in the library
alone.That seems like a responsible policy.
Here’s the rest.
http://www.west-bendlibrary.org/child.htm
So Wowzer what part don’t you like about that?
Is it that part about parental responsibility?
And same question to you?
What is the danger of exposing a child to material that is inappropriate for their age?
What is the danger of exposing a child to material that is inappropriate for their age?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1137 hrs
What is the danger of exposing a child to material that is inappropriate for their age?
I know, I know. They’ll turn out like Michael Smith.
Hey Kelly, what to you think of Mike’s use of vulgar language?
I know, you’d probably say something like, “Smeety, Really…did you have to do that? Wow. Not a proud day for Smeety.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1142 hrs
Nothing new to say, eh Pat? NOW Pat has a problem with language…go figure.
FOO, do you want full disclosure to parents don’t you?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1213 hrs
NOW Pat has a problem with language
Nope, I don’t have a problem with language. But I thought you’d like to nanny Mike for what he said.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1218 hrs
FOO, do you want full disclosure to parents don’t you?
Seems like they got it.
Children older than 7 are welcome to use the library appropriately on
their own. Their parents, however, are still responsible for the actions of
their children. Children of this age range who use inappropriate or
disruptive behavior may be asked to leave the library. If a child of this
age is not able to use the library appropriately or is not able to leave
the library without an adult, that child should not be left in the library
aloneSame question to you Kelly,
What is the danger of exposing a child to material that is inappropriate for their age?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1237 hrs
What is the danger of exposing a child to material that is inappropriate for their age?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1244 hrs
FOO, yes or no question: do you think 12 years old should be reading about drunken sex and blow jobs?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1245 hrs
Another link to nowhere Smeety?
Pathetic.
You already know the answer don’t you?
What was that about 15-16 years of age for your kids?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1249 hrs
I already told you what I think you just don’t like the answer.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1252 hrs
I love you, Opinion.
- - -
Are you ever going to answer my question and tell me where you believe the line should be for materials in the Library?Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1253 hrs
I already told you what I think you just don’t like the answer.
No, you haven’t.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1254 hrs
What is the danger of exposing a child to material that is inappropriate for their age? -FOO
They may immitate such behavior or deem such behavior as being okay for minor children.
FOO-You seem to imply without saying it that parents should have the right to decide what is good for their kids (#311). I agree.
Would you not agree that there should be full disclosure to give the parents all the knowledge neccesary to help better make decisions regarding their children?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1256 hrs
Kelly, you are giving Opinion too much credit. He simply hasn’t thought this out very hard, and now he’s having a lot of trouble defending his inane opinions (no pun intended)...
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1259 hrs
I can’t say anything about what “Mike” said since I don’t see posts by Mike.
Pat, I’ll ask you the same quesion I asked FOO:
Would you not agree that there should be full disclosure to give the parents all the knowledge neccesary to help better make decisions regarding their children?Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1301 hrs
They may immitate such behavior or deem such behavior as being okay for minor children.
So using that logic(?) Smeety thinks it is OK for 15-16 years old to engage in
drunken sex and blow jobs
OK by me , but I am hoping my boy will hold off a bit.
And Wowzer has of course left enough room to maneuver out of agreeing with, what he/she claims was the author’s intended audience in terms of appropriateness.
give the parents all the knowledge neccesary to help better make decisions regarding their children?
I have always been kind of self reliant, I do not expect anybody to give me anything. I like doing my own homework and I love my son.
Maybe you are just projecting your own attitudes and behaviors onto others.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1315 hrs
“Trust but verify” ~Ronald Reagan
Wasn’t he talking about library materials?
I wish I would have said that, maybe I did?
OK kids gotta run.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1319 hrs
I think all authors can write about whatever subjects they desire and target whatever audience they choose. The target audience for this book is high school. That’s fine with me. I do not think 12 year olds should be reading about drunken sex and blow jobs. The author did not intend for 12 year olds to be reading about drunken sex and blow jobs. Are my opinions clear?
Now, how giving me my yes or no answer: do you think 12 year olds should be reading about drunken sex and blow jobs?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1326 hrs
I can’t say anything about what “Mike” said since I don’t see posts by Mike.
Pat, I’ll ask you the same quesion I asked FOO:
Would you not agree that there should be full disclosure to give the parents all the knowledge neccesary to help better make decisions regarding their children?Mike is Smeety’s name.
As for your question, I’ve already given you my answer. There’s nothing new to say. So take off the nanny panties and put on your big girl panties.
:zzdeadhorse:
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1347 hrs
Now, how giving me my yes or no answer: do you think 12 year olds should be reading about drunken sex and blow jobs?
^No one here seems to want to answer Wowzers question. ^
So take off the nanny panties and put on your big girl panties.
-Pat
Ah, you’ve been reading too many books from the YA Zone…leave my panties alone! Like I said in previous post…Pat has nothing else to say.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1353 hrs
Like I said in previous post…Pat has nothing else to say
Then quit asking me the same question.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1356 hrs
Maybe you can answer Wowzers question. Post 346
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1611 hrs
Now, how giving me my yes or no answer: do you think 12 year olds should be reading about drunken sex and blow jobs?
Sorry Wowzer but there is a third answer.
I don’t know?
I am not sure I even know what a 12 year old looks like; much less what they think or what is appropriate for them from any medium.
Get back to me in 7 years.
That is why I think the actual parent of their 12 year old is the best and most reliable decision maker relative to what is or is not appropriate for them.
And stop with the what about the parents who are not involved BS Kelly.
If that is such a concern for you I am gonna bet that are a lot more kids in Milwaukee, and maybe even West Bend, who are facing situations that are a lot more corrosive and dangerous than what might be contained in a any book.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1747 hrs
Genesis 19:30-36
“And Lot…dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him…the firstborn said to the younger…there is no man in the earth to come in unto us…Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father, and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she rose, And it came to pass on the morrow, the firstborn said, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.”Genesis 29:21-28
“And Jacob said unto Laban, Give me my wife, for my days are fulfilled, that I may go in unto her…And it came to pass in the evening, that he took Leah his daughter, and brought her to him; and he went in unto her. And Laban gave unto his daughter Leah Zilpah his maid for a handmaid. And it came to pass, that in the morning, behold, it was Leah.”Genesis 38:15-16
“When Judah saw her, he thought her to be a harlot; because she had covered her face. And he turned to her be the way, and said, Go to, I pray thee, let me come in unto the; for he knew not that she was his daughter-in-law.”Wowser, Kelly, would you want a book with this kind of writing in it in the YA section of the library?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1822 hrs
Wowser, Kelly, would you want a book with this kind of writing in it in the YA section of the library?
Hey Mike, I forgot to ask you if you’d read a book with that stuff in it to a group of 11 yr. old children?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 1829 hrs
I’m sure the answer from most people would be yes, Pat. And the reason is because that book is thought to possess a lot of literary, historical and cultural value in addition to it’s forays into wonton begatting and killing. And perhaps they’re right.
But if context and guidance can make incest ok in that case, it can surely make unsavory things ok in other cases as well.
Posted by scott on May 13, 2010 at 1930 hrs
And thus, it’s not just a “yes or no” answer as to whether you’d let a child read it. The real answer is always: it depends.
Posted by scott on May 13, 2010 at 1931 hrs
And thus, it’s not just a “yes or no” answer as to whether you’d let a child read it. The real answer is always: it depends.
I’d have to agree Scott. But others would…........................???
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 13, 2010 at 2053 hrs
I don’t know?
I am not sure I even know what a 12 year old looks like; much less what they think or what is appropriate for them from any medium.I appreciate your candor in admitting you are not qualified to continue in this discussion.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 14, 2010 at 0829 hrs
So do you agree with this
That is why I think the actual parent of their 12 year old is the best and most reliable decision maker relative to what is or is not appropriate for them.
or not?
And no answer for this question either;
What is the danger of exposing a child to material that is inappropriate for their age?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 14, 2010 at 0916 hrs
The discussion is about accessibility and who should be responsible for policing that, right?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 14, 2010 at 0950 hrs
Viewing coarse, graphic, violent or sexual pictures structurally shapes and alters the child brain/mind/memory, with brain tissue “molded” by excitatory, anxiety provoking media. For roughly four decades our children have been guinea pigs for “entertainment” brain experiments. The disastrous results are seen all around us. See The Presidents Commission on Obscenity and Pornography (1970) and The Attorney General’s Commission on Pornography (July 1986) for confirmation of early pornography exposure
Posted by GAMazy on May 14, 2010 at 1007 hrs
Genesis 19:30-36
“And Lot…dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him…the firstborn said to the younger…there is no man in the earth to come in unto us…Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father, and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she rose, And it came to pass on the morrow, the firstborn said, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.”Genesis 29:21-28
“And Jacob said unto Laban, Give me my wife, for my days are fulfilled, that I may go in unto her…And it came to pass in the evening, that he took Leah his daughter, and brought her to him; and he went in unto her. And Laban gave unto his daughter Leah Zilpah his maid for a handmaid. And it came to pass, that in the morning, behold, it was Leah.”Genesis 38:15-16
“When Judah saw her, he thought her to be a harlot; because she had covered her face. And he turned to her be the way, and said, Go to, I pray thee, let me come in unto the; for he knew not that she was his daughter-in-law.”Ginny, would you read a book that contained this kind of salacious material in it to 11 yr. old children?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 14, 2010 at 1014 hrs
Viewing coarse, graphic, violent or sexual pictures structurally shapes and alters the child brain/mind/memory,
So now we are talking about picture books?
Well that will make Pat’s “reading” pretty easy, she can turn the pages and Smeety can do the narration.
Unless you like to do that Ginny?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 14, 2010 at 1017 hrs
Beuller
Beuller
Bueller
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 14, 2010 at 1047 hrs
So now we are talking about picture books?
The books haven’t changed… maybe you should actually find out what the books contain..
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 14, 2010 at 1109 hrs
So, it says a lot when Ginny, Wowser, Kelly, and Michael (Smeety) Smith, can’t answer my questions in regards about the the book I’ve quoted. And I was called a coward.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 14, 2010 at 1155 hrs
Ok, this moving target approach is absurd and is exactly why Ginny’s run at this topic was unsuccessful the first time around.
Do you want to succinctly and coherently state what you are arguing for or against here and which books you consider as part of your position, Smeety?
Ginny?
Kelly?
Wowser?
And to save you the trouble Smeety I believe the Supreme Court has found that Hustler stays within the rights granted in the First Amendment although you seem more familiar with the actual content than I am.
Maybe I am wrong on that?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 14, 2010 at 1209 hrs
They had great dirty comics. That’s about all I can contribute on that subject. Memory fades. (Do people really look at adult magazines in the internet age?)
Posted by scott on May 14, 2010 at 1250 hrs
Is the book you quote Pat in the YA Zone at the library?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 14, 2010 at 1309 hrs
Is the book you quote Pat in the YA Zone at the library?
Don’t answer a question with a question.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 14, 2010 at 1315 hrs
You just did.
Well, is it?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 14, 2010 at 1318 hrs
Kelly my question to you was:
Kelly, would you want a book with this kind of writing in it in the YA section of the library?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 14, 2010 at 1327 hrs
You just did.
Well, is it?
I’ll answer, and then you can.
My answer is, I don’t know.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 14, 2010 at 1333 hrs
I think the most appropriate place for that book would be in the reference section of the library or maybe next to the computers!
Don’t quite see your point since you don’t even know if that book is even in the YA Zone section.
Would you read Penthouse Forum to 12 year olds? I would not.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 14, 2010 at 1339 hrs
But my question was would you want a book with this kind of writing in it in the YA section of the library?
Would you read a book that contained this kind of salacious writing in it to 12 year olds?
And, are you saying that the library has copies of the Penthouse Forum on the shelves? If not, it’s a non-issue.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 14, 2010 at 1343 hrs
I think I answered…books with this type of writing should be available to older teens or in the adult section…not in YA Zone.
I would give full disclosure to parents to let them know what type of material is available for their children. If parents choose to read said book, that is their choice to do so. If they decided against it that is also their choice. I would not give the choice to the minor child, but to the adult after full disclosure. So, yes I would read the book to my child and censor or not censor the reading as I see fit, being the parent. However, I would not read it to other children unless permission was granted per their parents.
FULL DISCLOSURE!
Now let me ask you…would YOU read what you quoted to 12 year olds?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 14, 2010 at 1404 hrs
Now let me ask you…would YOU read what you quoted to 12 year olds?
Yes. But they’d have no idea what the heck I just read. You’d probably have to explain it to them.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 14, 2010 at 1409 hrs
We are never going to change each others minds…that’s just the way it is. You can call it whatever you want, but I know in my heart of hearts that I really want to protect the hearts and minds of young children…not just my own.
I also know that as a parent, I want full control over what my minor children are reading. I also, think as a taxpayer it’s just not too much to ask to keep the books in the library, send out a form to fully disclosure to parents what their young children may be exposed to and have a panel that discusses such books so everyone is aware.
I’m done with this thread because honestly there is nothing you can say or do to change my mind. I will continue to inform parents I know of how the library operates and I will do what I can to inform the voting public that they do have a choice in how the library is run and they can start their decision with their choice for Mayor.
Thanks and have a nice sunny weekend.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 14, 2010 at 1634 hrs
I believe it’s the library’s job to organize books, shelves, sections; and parent’s jobs to be informed about what their children, read, watch on TV and “Google.”
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 18, 2010 at 1839 hrs
Well, it’s been another week and Michael (Smeety) Smith still hasn’t got the reading of material he finds objectionable scheduled at the West Bend Community Library.
For a guy that talked so smart about getting this reading set up at the library and getting it video taped to put on the internet, he sure hasn’t showed much effort.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 21, 2010 at 1211 hrs
Pat,
No one here believes you will show up. You aren’t even willing to give your contact info…
Michael Tyree did not respond at all to my request, and I know he got the request because someone from the library tried to contact me at one point. You can do an ORR and verify if you want.
If you’d like, Pat… I can seriously and aggressively pursue this. I’ll contact several libraries in the area, and merely ask them if they’d let you read the material without verifying your identity. I’ll cherry pick one of the libraries that will require your identity and then I’ll call your bluff….
... just give me the word…. I was willing to let this die…
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 21, 2010 at 1253 hrs
No one here believes you will show up. You aren’t even willing to give your contact info…
Were you looking in a mirror when you wrote that?
Michael Tyree did not respond at all to my request, and I know he got the request because someone from the library tried to contact me at one point.
Is that what they call tenacity?
I’ll cherry pick one of the libraries that will require your identity and then I’ll call your bluff….
That black belt is starting to look a little big on you Smeety, try the yellow one.
... just give me the word…. I was willing to let this die…
Is pathetic the word you were waiting for?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 21, 2010 at 1522 hrs
Wow. I thought this pile of burning crap had finally extinguished itself. Putting all disagreements aside I have an honest question for Pat and Fact or opinion. Do you people really want to read this material in front of 12 year olds or is the point now just to make Smeety look bad?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 21, 2010 at 1539 hrs
just to make Smeety look bad?
You mean worse than he already does?
Is that even possible?
this material
What material?
Smeety mentioned Hustler by name.
Yeah, that probably would be inappropriate for a 12 year old.
But wouldn’t that be in periodicals rather than the YA section?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 21, 2010 at 1553 hrs
What material?
Looking for Alaska by John Green.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 21, 2010 at 1600 hrs
is the point now just to make Smeety look bad?
Well, you could try to put lipstick on a pig but…..........
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 21, 2010 at 1621 hrs
Wowzers,
It’s just a lot of talk from a couple obsessed guys not actually willing to put their name on anything. Now they are just bitter.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 21, 2010 at 1645 hrs
OK, I’ll take a look at it and see where they keep it in our burg’s library.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 21, 2010 at 1657 hrs
OK, Smeety do you have something else you would like me to look at while I am at the library?
You gonna play the parrot?
Or are you sticking with Hustler?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 21, 2010 at 1710 hrs
Here’s one for the two of you.
Sands of the Kalahari
by William MulvihillWhat age would you find this appropriate for?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 21, 2010 at 1714 hrs
No. Nothing. I am just curious to what you will actually think of this material you believe is okay for eleven year olds after you actually read it.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 21, 2010 at 1722 hrs
Thank GAWWD you standup guys are out there protecting kids from library books.
Seriously, I thought we had this thing wrapped up around comments 354, 355. But no.
Posted by scott on May 21, 2010 at 1730 hrs
The books haven’t changed… maybe you should actually find out what the books contain..
That was “books” you were referencing Smeety.
Are you really such a goof?
I am only going to the library once for this, speak now or forever hold your peace.
Kelly?
Ginny?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 21, 2010 at 1731 hrs
Wait a minute. After refreshing my memory I realized FOO is the same guy that I so completely dominated using logic and common sense that he admitted his ignorance with:
I don’t know?
I am not sure I even know what a 12 year old looks like; much less what they think or what is appropriate for them from any medium.Put your dunce cap back on and return to your corner. Since it is apparent that I will not be able to convince anyone that 12 year olds shouldn’t be reading about drunken sex and blowjobs, and you are definitely not going to convince me it’s ok, I will be deleting the link to this blog. Good luck all.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 21, 2010 at 1804 hrs
After the debate, the personal attacks, blah blah blah… Opinion doesn’t even know what freakin’ books we are discussing…
-
for shamePosted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 21, 2010 at 1832 hrs
I will be deleting the link to this blog
And the moon is made of green cheese.
Opinion doesn’t even know what freakin’ books we are discussing…
Books or book Smeety?
You don’t have a clue do you?
for shame
I have always been told I don’t have any sense of it.
I like it that way.
I’ll give you my book report sometime next week.
Don’t worry I am not expecting anything more from you other than background noise.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 21, 2010 at 1854 hrs
Books or book Smeety?
Yeah ... that makes a lot of sense. This whole saga over the last several years has been over one book. Seriously… do you even know what this discussion is about?
Don’t worry I am not expecting anything more from you other than background noise.
For some reason you are obsessed with this background noise…castles in the sand....
@ Scott:
I thought this whole thing is over as well, but it has degraded and has absolutely no relevance. Pat has turned into George Kostanza driving Susan Ross’ parents to his place in the Hamptons. I guess we’ll keep driving….
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 21, 2010 at 1922 hrs
Smeety/Bowser et al
Just though I would give you a heads up on “Looking for Alaska”
So far it’s an OK read. I have not read anything yet that isn’t available on broadcast television much less cable at the flick of a switch.
Oh and there’s no pictures:(
You are going to have to give me an incomplete for now, it is going to have to wait until after the weekend.
Later
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 27, 2010 at 1008 hrs
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