WEAC Wins Legal Victory Over Parents
The decision by the District 2 Court of Appeals in Waukesha, which was released today, overturns a previous decision by an Ozaukee County judge.
“As the law presently stands, the charter school, open-enrollment and teacher certification statutes are clear and unambiguous, and the District is not in compliance with any of them,” Judge Richard Brown wrote on behalf of the three-judge panel that decided the case.
The ruling is a victory for the Wisconsin Education Association Council, the state’s largest teachers union, which argued that because the school essentially operated out of students’ homes throughout the state and used parents as primary educators it violates statutes regarding teacher licensure, charter schools and open enrollment.
This entire lawsuit is based on WEAC’s firm belief that parents are not qualified to assist in their own children’s education - even when directed by a union teacher. Such hubris and disrespect for parents is disgraceful.
This is so bad for the future of education. I am stunned.
Posted by Charlie Hillman on December 05, 2007 at 1911 hrs
This entire lawsuit is based on WEAC’s firm belief that parents are not qualified to assist in their own children’s education
False. This lawsuit is based on the fact that WIVA, as instituted, violated the laws of Wisconsin as written. The appeals court agreed. Either the laws change or the school does.Posted by folkbum on December 05, 2007 at 1959 hrs
Finally a discussion that will illicit discourse and not just name calling.
I believe that all WEAC wants is for everyone to play by the same rules. If public schools, and I assume private schools, teachers need to be licensed then why would it be okay for virtual school teachers to not be licensed? That is basically the argument as I understand it. The virtual school was using parents to help save costs by allowing a disproportionate amount of instructional time to be administered by unqualified teachers.(parents) Understand this is not an attack on parent rights. It is just asking them to be qualified.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 05, 2007 at 2100 hrs
I wrote a piece some time ago about this case. Here it is:
http://www.widigest.com/html/owen.wiva.htm
Posted by Owen on December 05, 2007 at 2115 hrs
based on WEAC’s firm belief that parents are not qualified to assist in their own children’s education - even when directed by a union teacher.
If only. I’m being tortured for a second day by a 15 year old stuck with a teacher that won’t teach. Whatever advanced algebra I had 30 years ago didn’t stay current in my grown-up mind and we are both suffering.
I wish like heck we could weed out a handful of slack teachers. In this case I’m being forced to teach Algebra II and it’s a miserable process.
Posted by Cindy on December 05, 2007 at 2130 hrs
IIRC, private schools are not required to have ‘certified’ teachers, although most of them prefer the certification.
Unfortunately, the law is clear, and will have to be changed. “Certification” does not a teacher make—and for that matter, there are a lot of excellent teachers who do not have a degree in “education.”
In the end, oligopoly-creating and -protecting legislation (licensing, certification, etc.) is usually put in place to restrict entry into markets—IOW, to protect them what HAS against them who COULD have it. See: taverns, barbers, manicurists for a beginning list.
Posted by dad29 on December 05, 2007 at 2156 hrs
The WIVA parents are teachers, no matter how hard they try to argue that they aren’t. Accordingly, they need to be licensed if the state is going to be ponying up money to teach the students. Whether WEAC believes parents are qualified to teach isn’t even germane to the discussion, Owen, unless you’re just looking for a partisan cheap shot, which apparently you are.
The lawsuit is based on the fact that state law says that teachers at public schools need to be certified, and the parents are effectively the teachers at WIVA.
As I’ve said on my own blog, I don’t have any problem with the WIVA concept, except for the fact that it’s clearly against the law. So maybe the Legislature needs to change the laws. Rule of law, right? That’s what conservatives are big on and all.
Posted by Recess Supervisor on December 05, 2007 at 2201 hrs
Let’s just dump this certification stuff. There are too many people that could be great teachers but will not because the hoops are too great. Too many parents or mid-life career change people that get shut out by the union protectionism system.
They should make all teachers and teacher candidates take a basic skills/knowledge/aptitude test. Then publish the results. Let the schools hire them on that basis and have the private schools hire who they want on that basis as well. If you want to ensure certification, require a minimum score be met in order to teach. But then forget all the other stuff.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 05, 2007 at 2210 hrs
SA, what are the hoops they have to jump through? If you want to do something bad enough, I would think you would follow the process and not just give up and say it’s too hard. Aren’t there processes that doctors, lawyers, fire fighters, police officers, massage therapists, etc follow to get licensed?
If the law is so bad, then the process should be started to change it. Until then follow the law. Or appeal it to the Supreme Court.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 05, 2007 at 2228 hrs
False. This lawsuit is based on the fact that WIVA, as instituted, violated the laws of Wisconsin as written. The appeals court agreed. Either the laws change or the school does.
Shouldn’t the state AG be the one worrying about the laws of the state?
The WIVA parents are teachers, no matter how hard they try to argue that they aren’t.
I myself have never argued otherwise - not that anyone has asked me.
But .. I look back on how much actual instructing we do. Not much. My wife (who is home far more than I am) provides guidance and direction and helps out over the rough patches. This would be exactly what we would do if they were in a bricks-and-mortar school. The only exceptional part is that we’re there for them _when_ they have the problems and it does not have to wait until that evening.
It’s just damned irritating that those of us who want the best for our kids - and think we’ve found it in WIVA - find that people who we think would have some sympathy for our goals ... don’t.
Posted by Brian on December 05, 2007 at 2245 hrs
If the law is so bad, then the process should be started to change it. Until then follow the law. Or appeal it to the Supreme Court.
Or just give up on public schools altogether.
Posted by Brian on December 05, 2007 at 2246 hrs
I think SA’s point is that a guy like Stephen Hawking could teach physics to 18-year-old college freshmen, but not to 18-year-old high school seniors. Where is the logic in that? There’s a lot of BS surrounding the whole “professionalization” of teaching, perpetuated by the union and educational theorists, that is hardly relevant to the actual act of being an effective teacher.
Education majors routinely have among the lowest standardized test scores and high school GPA’s of any majors at major universities. Sad, but true. I’m a firm believer that alternative certification is appropriate for the reasons SA mentions. Put a career-switcher in a summer program, put him in a classroom with an effective mentoring network for a year or two, and see what he can do. The problem is that most professionals aren’t going to check out of a payday for a few years to go back to school and sit through a bunch of BS classes put together by educrats, social activists, and agenda pushers. Which, sadly, is a lot of the education curriculum in Wisconsin.
The fact is, there’s nothing professional about being a good teacher. There are no skills special or unique to the trade that you need to develop. The hundreds of thousands of parents who successfully homeschool their children are a testament to that.
Oh, and I’m not getting these takes on my own. I’m just repeating what my friends who were ed majors and/or are teaching in public schools tell me.
But that said, the WIVA ruling is still the correct one.
Posted by Recess Supervisor on December 05, 2007 at 2340 hrs
Brian, didn’t you say in another thread that you’re not even in Wisconsin? You said you’re not getting Wisconsin funding for homeschooling? If you are in Wisconsin, why not funding?
And Steve Austin, why have a standard test for all teachers? They train to teach different subjects, different levels. If we do what you want, why not just have plumbers and electricians and beauticians all take the same test to be licensed, too.
And teachers have to meet your “minimal” standards to get certified already. I hope that most schools are looking for more than minimums. But as much of what you want done is done, what do you mean?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 05, 2007 at 2346 hrs
Brian, didn’t you say in another thread that you’re not even in Wisconsin?
I live in Neenah, have lived here going on six years; I migrated from Texas. I mentioned that my two youngest children have never been enrolled in public schools in Wisconsin.
Posted by Brian on December 06, 2007 at 0043 hrs
They should make all teachers and teacher candidates take a basic skills/knowledge/aptitude test
We do take such a test. And while the scores may not be “public” (it’s been so long I don’t even remember mine now), districts know what the cut scores are for certification. But, as I feel about tests for students, a single standardized test result is hardly a good measure of anyone’s ability to do anything—which is why school districts want to know a lot more about you and your ability to teach before they hire you than just a test score.
I’m a firm believer that alternative certification is appropriate for the reasons SA mentions. Put a career-switcher in a summer program, put him in a classroom with an effective mentoring network for a year or two, and see what he can do.
These programs exist. There are at least two right now in Milwaukee that are always desperately looking for special education and math or science teachers. They can earn a full-time teacher’s salary as they earn they teach and earn their certification.
Anyone who wants the good life (summers off, cadillac benefits, whatever other clichéed phony tropes you right-wingers believe in) is welcome to come on down. MPS is hiring 50 new math teachers starting in January, and UWM will give you your certification while you make money teaching! We need you!
Posted by folkbum on December 06, 2007 at 0520 hrs
I heard the term “government schools” used a while ago, rather than “public schools.” I must say, I agree with the term. Let’s see ... Elected Board, Unionized Employees, Taxing Power ... sounds like a government body to me.
Who would choose the government to educate your kids?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 06, 2007 at 0817 hrs
Good thing it was a conservative court, could you imagine how different it would have been had it been liberal?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 06, 2007 at 1115 hrs
Kris Beaver, could you clarify something? You mentioned that this virtual school was saving homeschooling parents money. But the costs must have been higher with paying teachers (although at only about an hour a month online with each student, but it added up to a lot of teachers at home around the state).
So the costs, and higher costs, were paid by the taxpayers? In the school districts of the students to the Ozaukee district, correct?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 06, 2007 at 1117 hrs
You mentioned that this virtual school was saving homeschooling parents money.
What Kirs said was
The virtual school was using parents to help save costs by allowing a disproportionate amount of instructional time to be administered by unqualified teachers.(parents)
I’m not sure I buy that. Each of our children enrolled in WIVA has a teacher, their student workload is - as far as I know - the same as they would have in a bricks and mortar classroom.
Instructional time is rather hazy as well. How much instructional time is there in a non-virtual classroom? My kids carry the same workload as their peers - and they are done with school in 2-3 hours on most days.
It might be that WIVA has managed to remove all of the extra stuff that kids do in a school that isn’t related to learning - hooray for efficiency!
Posted by Brian on December 06, 2007 at 1201 hrs
I agree that if they’re spared time-wasters such as DARE, that’s good. But I thought that I read that the program requires 5 hours a day?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 06, 2007 at 1207 hrs
But I thought that I read that the program requires 5 hours a day?
Sure. But they don’t have to work at the pace of the slowest individual and they can work ahead.
For example last month my youngest had to read a book and answer questions. He had read the book (to me) for a bed time story the week before - so there was 45 minutes alloted to the day that he’d already done and he skipped to the Q+A.
Posted by Brian on December 06, 2007 at 1343 hrs
Nice to see the recess supervisor feeling free to comment on this blog, even though my comment to his ill-informed post on his own blog has never seen the light of day.
As I’ve written elsewhere, in order to have an informed discussion, you need to be, well, informed.
For RS and others who are mischaracterizing the case, here are some facts.
These students excelled in a Wisconsin public school, taught by WEAC dues-paying, certified, licensed public school teachers. WEACs only problem was that the student-teacher ratio was larger than they prefer, thus limiting the numbers of dues-paying members per classroom.
Fact: In the court proceedings, the plaintiffs said that academic achievement was not relevant in this case.
Fact: The conservative Bogey Man some libs point to, Former US Secretary of Education Bill Bennett, has not been involved in this school or the company that provides the tools for it, for several years.
Fact: The points in the case are obviously in dispute, since the Appeals Court overturned the Circuit Court’s findings.
As for how Teachers at that school operate, here is the testimony of one of WIVA’s teachers, delivered to a DPI panel more than two years ago:
July 19, 2005
My name is Kathy Hennings and I am a 1st and 2nd grade teacher with the Wisconsin Virtual Academy, one of Wisconsin’s most successful public virtual schools. I will be starting my 3rd year with WIVA this fall. In addition to my employment of 33 years within the public school system, my two daughters have been enrolled in public education from Kindergarten through college. I am a dues-paying member of WEAC and a member of the Wisconsin Coalition of Virtual School Families. I’m a proponent of the public school system in Wisconsin and proud to be a part of it…
Public virtual schools offer students a unique opportunity within the public school realm. A rigorous and rich curriculum, which meets and goes beyond the WI State standards, is provided for each child enrolled. In my school, licensed, experienced teachers instruct students and partner with parents (who strongly value their child’s education) to ensure the curriculum is carried out to the mastery level. On-line scripted lessons, written by professionals in the field, are presented to the students at their own pace. Because a student does not need to move along with the masses in a classroom of 25-30, individualized attention can be poured into each one. This tailor-made education meets the learning needs and styles that range from the struggling to the gifted learner. Individual goal-setting, evaluation of objectives learned, enrichment of lessons, appropriate pacing, and remediation strategies - are only some of the topics dealt with through this partnership of teacher and responsible adult.
Beyond the biweekly conferences, I have many contacts with the students through field trips or outings, email exchanges, newsletters, postal letters, student workshops, tutoring sessions, on-line literature discussions, small group meetings, camp jamborees, and more. Students submit assignments required by their teachers on a regular basis. WIVA teachers administer the state standardized tests, and let me say we are proud of the most recent state test scores.
Each year of our school’s operation, we hold before us our mission: Providing a choice for Wisconsin families, the Wisconsin Virtual Academy is a learning community comprised of students, parents, and staff working together in a powerful partnership, empowering children to reach their full potential through a curriculum harnessed in rich technology to create individualized mastery learning.
I am so proud to be a public school teacher and so pleased to be a part of these innovative efforts.
Armed with the facts regarding how the school actually operates, and the knowledge of the human toll resulting from the closing this and the other public schools that follow this model, we see a much different picture than the knee-jerk opponents of educational choice would like to paint.
Posted by Fraley on December 06, 2007 at 1407 hrs
As a former WIVA participant, I see this as a great failing for the so called parent involvement. Note every time a youth goes very wrong the education system blames parental involvement.
I wonder why WEAC brought this case. With a mission statement: “To fulfill the promise of a democratic society, the mission of the Wisconsin Education Association Council is to promote respect and support for quality public education and to provide for the professional and personal growth and economic welfare of members.”
In a democratic society don’t we support differing views as much and as feverously as our own (think flag burning, any religious views, unlike some societies the right to think differently for the majority)?
Could it be money? I guess if the parents had been “members” this would be different.
Shouldn’t WEAC be hailing WIVA since it does use teachers instead of the usual homeschooling curriculum which is purchased, mailed and forgotten and has some phone tech to provide assistance when needed? I mean my child had a certified teacher guiding us. This could have possible freed up several teachers to fill the needs of brick and mortar students in an industry that continues to complain about shortages in educators, space, and parental involvement.
If you call me a bad teacher because I fail to have a “Certification” no one asked me for a certification while I helped my wife deliver my two children, with the help of a midwife nurse (think assisting certified teacher).
I can now compare what my elementary age child is going through in a brick and mortar school to the K-12 curriculum offered through WIVA. The science sucks for lack of a better word, compared to the 70+ classes per year that I taught with guidance from the K-12 system. The math is reviewing material we did in 2nd grade. When reading material is brought home it is read in minutes, not days. The book was discussed in hours not months. We have our child doing extra work at home (reading, writing, and math) just to compensate for what I would call a lack of schooling. After reviewing the latest science we are also going to start science projects.
I know from the kid down the street that they have a remedial program. I wonder what happened to a TAG (Talented and Gifted) program like I participated in when I was my child’s age.
Let me be perfectly clear, the teacher is greatly qualified with years of experience, I have no doubts. I must admit with a class of 24 or so she has her hands full. I mean since there are fast students as well as slow, everyone travels at the median pace. I won’t even go to the part about years of experience and fighting us (the parents) on communication and technology usage.
I am disappointed that the opportunity for guided homeschooling will not be available to all not just the ones who can afford it on their own.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 06, 2007 at 1456 hrs
Good point re the dearth of gifted and talented programs today—but as for what happened to them, I know that in a few school districts I know about, and some of the best in the Milwaukee suburbs, they were scaled ‘way back with budget cuts.
Our best and brightest children are a resource that is worth special funding for this different sort of “special ed” that survives due to mandates. I’d like to see a legislator sponsoring funding just for these gifted and talented programs, so that they don’t have to die when districts are trying to do so much else that they have to do.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 06, 2007 at 1551 hrs
When in school, kids are taught to develop their very own thinking. This might upset some of the parents. Maybe this is a reason why parents should not attend classes with their children.
Posted by fire damage restoration on February 12, 2008 at 1914 hrs
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