Union Revotes… Sort Of

This is reaching comic levels.  It’s a shame that the consequences are so dire.

Late Saturday night, the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers Lodge 1947 announced there would be a second vote on the contract proposal that was scheduled to expire at midnight. Voting began at the union hall in Fond du Lac shortly after 10 p.m., was expected to last until midnight and continue on Sunday until 6 p.m.

But early Sunday morning, union officials said a Mercury Marine executive told them the company would not accept any ballots cast after midnight.

Thus, the polls will not be open Sunday as announced earlier, said Dan Longsine, the union’s chief negotiator.

Ballots cast Saturday night will probably be voided, Longsine said. The union had wanted to continue voting on Sunday, thus giving members adequate opportunity to cast their ballots.

In a statement released at 2:15 a.m. Sunday, Mercury said:

“The IAM conducted a last-minute vote on the original proposal terms and conditions but did not complete the process to a definitive conclusion prior to the expiration of the proposal. As a result, Mercury said it will continue to operate the Fond du Lac facility under the terms and conditions of the existing contract, which expires in 2012. Manufacturing workers in Fond du Lac are represented by the IAM, Local chapter 1947. As previously announced, the company will now begin the transition planning process to its Stillwater, Okla., facility.”

The union had ALL FRIGGIN’ WEEK.  They voted last Sunday.  Then they were surprised when the company refuses to change the offer - even though the company had made it clear that it was a best and final offer.  Then the union said they couldn’t re-vote on the same proposal.  Then they said that they wanted to reopen negotiation.  Then, at the last minute, they decided that they could, after all, re-vote on the same proposal, but did it too late to get the vote done before the deadline for the offer passed.  As with last week, the company was perfectly clear that they weren’t going to move the deadline. 

The union leadership seems to be utterly incompetent.  Did they not learn their lesson after last Sunday that the normal BS gamesmanship that they used in previous contract negotiations wouldn’t apply here?  If I were in this union - even if I supported the stance on the contract - I’d be seriously questioning my leadership. 

1. Yeah, the union leadership has acted stupidly, but MM management is wrong in not allowing another vote a few hours after the “deadline”.  Kinda makes them look like they were planning on moving the jobs anyway.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2009 at 1047 hrs




2. Owen, I think the Union isn’t looking so bad right now after the latest release from MM about how they won’t accept the results of a second vote the union started at 10pm last night. 

   If Merc really cared about their people, they’d have allowed them to have their second vote and let it run to its conclusion at 6pm tonight.  Then if the contract was still voted down, Mercury and Fondy can blame the dumb union.  Now suddenly Merc looks like the bad guy.

   It almost makes you wonder if the union leadership and Merc collaborated on this tragic end.  That way the Union leadership saves face and Merc can move on to Oklahoma.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2009 at 1130 hrs




3. It almost makes you wonder if the union leadership and Merc collaborated on this tragic end.  That way the Union leadership saves face and Merc can move on to Oklahoma
   Ding ding ding we have a winner.
   I agree whole heartadly.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2009 at 1136 hrs




4. I disagree, Steve A.  A deadline is a deadline - arbitrary or not.  The union had plenty of time to meet it.  They could have called a re-vote on Wednesday or Thursday or Friday or even earlier on Saturday.  Why should management waive the deadline because the union failed to get their act together?

   Posted by Owen on August 30, 2009 at 1159 hrs




5. Mr. Austin. The Union knew ALL WEEK when the deadline was, and that, as well as the words FINAL OFFER, should have given them at least a small sense of urgency. To MM, words mean what they say. To the Union, they apparently don’t.

   Posted by Billiam on August 30, 2009 at 1201 hrs




6. Looks to me like the union is trying to shift blame to MM by allowing a last minute vote.  They had all week.  They’re responsible for the loss of jobs in FDL.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2009 at 1239 hrs




7. So, is Brett Favre the president of this union?

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2009 at 1245 hrs




8. Jim,

   That’s the best line so far

   

   Posted by Owen on August 30, 2009 at 1246 hrs




9. They had a whole week to do another vote. As shown - it only takes a few hours to put a vote together, so it isn’t like they were lacking for time to put another one together if they wanted to.

   This union got outmaneuvered - simple as that.

   I think the workers should vote to de-certify their union. That’s the only way they can save their jobs. I think a lot of the old-timers are figuring they can hang on until 2012 and then retire. But I don’t that Merc is going to stay that long. They only need 60 days notice to tell the state they are closing the plant.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2009 at 1254 hrs




10. “To MM, words mean what they say. To the Union, they apparently don’t.”

    Except when it comes to the existing contract, then to MM words mean whatever MM decides.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2009 at 1311 hrs




11. “These corporations have no loyalty to the country or its workers. Our impoverishment feeds their profits. And profits, for corporations, are all that count”, from Chris Hedges Empire of Illusions.

    Pretty much sums up the whole situation.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2009 at 1327 hrs




12. Some of you are starting to sound like the “rules are rules” crowd.

    If MM really wants to stay in FDL, there’s absolutely no reason they can’t let the union members take another vote, regardless of the deadline.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2009 at 1333 hrs




13. Kay, what a bunch of BS.  What can be said is that the union and it’s workers didn’t care about the company and the Fond Du Lac.
    The union didn’t want a second vote.  They could have called for a vote, but they claimed their by-laws prohibited it.  So, why did they have a second vote on Saturday?  Apparently the by-law excuse was a lie. 
    The union is just trying to save face.  They screwed up and when they screwed up, the workers suffer.
    The union should be sued for malpractice, but I doubt that will happen.  When you have a bunch of union lemmings, they will follow the union over the cliff.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2009 at 1338 hrs




14. Spoken like someone who has never run a business Kay.

    The company is loayal to its owners - shareholders if it is public and the owner if it is private.

    If you aren’t in business to make money - why are you in business?

    Get past the whole “profit is evil.”  Profit is what drives this country to be the greatest in the world.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2009 at 1338 hrs




15. Bill,

    With all due respect I do run a busisness and a highly profitable one at that thank you.  I pay a living wage to my employees and I offer health insurance to boot.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2009 at 1344 hrs




16. Exactly—why were they doing a revote after they said they couldn’t without changes to the offer?  Would have this vote been nullified anyway?

    Kay, here is some Business 101:

    A company needs something called “profit” to continue being considered something called a “going concern.”  Many companies use their “profits” to reinvest in the company, making it grow, or to save up for tough economic patches.  When they are no longer making “profit,” a company must start making “cost cuts,” in order to avoid contined “losses.”  If certain types of companies have too many years of “losses” (I believe it is 5 years), they are no longer considered a “going concern” by the IRS and are shut down.

    In MM’s case, the type of product they make—boat engines—are a very discretionary item for most people (since things like housing, heating/cooling, food, clothing, and transportation costs are more important).  What this means is that the demand for them has gone way down and people are not buying them.  This in turn means that there are far fewer “sales” but still lots of expenses and therefore either greatly reduced “profit” or if enough expenses, “losses.”

    MM did a lot of analysis and determined what was needed to keep the company afloat and keep as many employees as they could.  Agree with it or not, that is what they determined, and the determination was not made lightly.

    Posted by hsgbdmama on August 30, 2009 at 1353 hrs




17. Kay, then why is your profit not considered “evil?” 

    Posted by hsgbdmama on August 30, 2009 at 1354 hrs




18. I’m sorry, but I can’t buy the “deadline is a deadline” garbage. 

    If the Union was truly trying to run a second vote, and they started it at 10pm last night and asked it to run through 6pm today, I’d let them have that vote. (now whether this was a legit vote or not, I can’t comment there)

    Then if they vote it down by 6pm tonight, management simply moves on.  It would make the company look good and the Union look like they had an actual vote and turned the thing down. 

    You don’t make a billion dollar decision (which in some respects is what the situation of staying here represented) over some technicality of disallowing an 18-hour extension because “rules are the rules”. Unless of course you had no intention of ever sticking in Wisconsin to being with.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2009 at 1356 hrs




19. Profit is not evil,  I never said it was.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2009 at 1402 hrs




20. If we want to sit and bash the Union guys, that’s fine.  They have plenty of culpability here.  But they are but a speck of sand in the bigger issue.

    This recession is taking away the operating margin of error for many, many companies.  Places like Mercury could sit in Wisconsin for years and not move to Mexico or the Southern States because they still were mildly profitable. 

    Now that those profits have turned to losses due to the recession, these companies have to abandon the Midwest.  I still maintain Oklahoma is merely the stepping stone to China, but nonetheless, I’m not sure we can wait on Jim Doyle and the Dems here until the November 2010 elections. 

    This recession will force many more of these moves out of State in the next 12-months before we can get a new regime in Madison to try and save the jobs.

    That’s where the focus needs to be now.  The Union situation is important but secondary IMO.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2009 at 1409 hrs




21. What can be said is that the union and it’s workers didn’t care about the company and the Fond Du Lac.

    The Union cares about what the Union is designed to care about… the bank accounts of the Union members.  From my perspective it looks like the majority of the Union members thought they would benefit from MM firing them and having to pay them the severance and benefits packages guaranteed to them by their previous UNION NEGOTIATED contracts.

    That reallys sucks for the younger workers in Fond Du Lac who would rather have a lower paying job than be unemployed, but it is just an economic reality of what happens in negotiations between labor and owners. 

    MM leaving is going to work out all right for the owners, the new hires in OK and a handful of workers that helped to keep that business profitable for the past 30 in Fond Du Lac.  But it is going to suck for the city of Fond Du Lac, and the young MM employees in WI.  In a few years when MM decides it has to move their production facility out of OK and to some place overseas where they can find the next dirt cheap labor pool it is going to be good for the MM owners and a bunch of new hires, but it is really going to suck for the Okies that are going to be out of a job with no severance packages and no benefits.  The Fondie union guys that voted themselves out of job, but will be able to retire pseudo-comfortably are going to look like a bunch of geniuses compared to the poor saps in OK that will eventually be phased out just like the Fondy workers just were.

    Profit is what drives this country to be the greatest in the world.

    Innovation is what has lead this country to prosperity.  Profit is just a byproduct of that innovation.  Innovation is a byproduct of labor, not capital (or profit).

    “Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.” ~ Abraham Lincoln

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2009 at 1414 hrs




22. “If I were in this union - even if I supported the stance on the contract - I’d be seriously questioning my leadership. “

    If you were the kind of person who would question the leadership of this union, you wouldn’t be in this union for long.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2009 at 1418 hrs




23. Innovation is a product consisting almost entirely of capital, not labor.  Namely it is comprised of intellectual capital.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2009 at 1510 hrs




24. “intellectual capital”  is more related to the “labor” than the “capital” Lincoln is referring to.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2009 at 1520 hrs




25. Profit drives innovation.  Why spend money developing an idea if you can’t make that money, and more back?  Therefore profit drove this nation into prosperity.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2009 at 1549 hrs




26. “If you were the kind of person who would question the leadership of this union, you wouldn’t be in this union for long.”

    Unfortunately, it looks like if you were the kind of person who wouldn’t question the leadership of this union, you won’t be in the union for long, either.

    Posted by Fuzz on August 30, 2009 at 1553 hrs




27. “These corporations have no loyalty to the country or its workers. Our impoverishment feeds their profits. And profits, for corporations, are all that count”, from Chris Hedges Empire of Illusions.

    Pretty much sums up the whole situation.

    What!?

    1.) Mercury Marine is moving to Oklahoma, not out of the country.

    2.) How can an impoverished nation provide a corporation with profits? A corporation like MM needs a well heeled public to purchase their very expensive leisure products.

    3.) Profits are not all that matters to a corporation. They are all that matters to a corporations shareholders and employees. The greater the profitability the more desirable the stock, and the more people employed.

    Care to make any other inane statements?

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2009 at 1622 hrs




28. Profit is not evil,  I never said it was

    Yeah, I’d back away from that book quote too….

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2009 at 1624 hrs




29. Looks like screw up, but union “forced the disaster”. 

    Union CAN NOT accept ANY company “final offer” because to do so signals weakness.  SO, they are happy to toss MM folks to the dogs to maintain rep as tuff negotiators at a jillion non-MM sites. 

    Hey, what’s a couple hundred workers in Wisc really worth, when they are concerned about negotiating contracts covering 100’s of thousands of workers elsewhere??  Don’t even ask.

    And that’s the bottom line.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2009 at 1634 hrs




30. Intellectual capital is capital precisely because it has value entirely independent of any labor attached to it.    Ideas are capital.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2009 at 1641 hrs




31. Seems to indicate that while the players are in Fond du Lac, the people pulling the strings is the Big Union and Brunswick Corp.

    Like 2 large Anacondas wrapped in coils around each other and both so stupid as not to back off a little to let each other live.

    Probably could throw a few more snakes in there to complicate things, like the Federal and Wisconsin State Governments.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2009 at 1908 hrs




32. The government would be the mongooses - trying to kill one of the snakes.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2009 at 2258 hrs




33. Productivity is what principally made the economy of this nation roar.  This is something the nations of Mexico and China lack currently (maybe not too much longer). 

    Most of the productivity gains came from investments in physical capital in the form of technology.  Labor is actually the antecedent to wealth and any enterprise worth their weight in salt strives to minimize labor as much as possible.  Most of the gains were also in the private sector where unions are shrinking.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2009 at 2304 hrs




34. So, Kay——-you pay a “fair wage” AND provide health coverage?  What about a defined-benefit pension?  Dental insurance? 

    And does your “fair wage” scale pay $22./hour to forklift drivers?  Does it pay $22./hour to ANY of your blue-collar employees?

    Posted by dad29 on August 31, 2009 at 0759 hrs




35. In true Kerryesque manner….
    they voted against the contract before they voted for it.

    Oh ya, would that be called a flop flip??

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 31, 2009 at 0916 hrs




36. <b>Without the profit motive there’s no reason at all for a business to exist. <b>

    The lack of profit is exactly why any business goes away. Would you invest your money in a business if you knew that the investment would be lost or reduced?

    Of course not. 

    Same holds true for MM and Brunswick. Given the current business conditions expenses exceed sales. To continue paying the expenses means that the company is spending “savings” to simply pay for the costs that exceed the sales received. To fix that they either have to increase sales or reduce expenses.

    With the current economy what do you think the chance is that MM & Brunswick can inrease sales? Have you seen tne number of boats, new and used, that are available for sale? One website that is used to sell boats boasts that they have 112,680 boats for sale! With that sort of inventory available, the number of new boats likely to be built is zilch meaning increased boat sales are also zilch.

    Since sales are difficult to impossible to increase that means costs have to be cut. The question is how to do it. Should MM stay in FDL and work with a union that is unwilling to work with the company in these difficult business time or move to OK where they don’t have to deal with the union?

    It looks like MM has provided the answer to that question.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 31, 2009 at 0917 hrs




37. Capital and labor are a chicken and egg argument. You can’t start a business, build facilities and hire employees without capital. The capital came from products manufactured and sold by labor.

    Take away the profit motive and you kill innovation. Look at where 99.9% of innovation comes from. Not from socialist countries. There is no incentive to innovate if there is no reward. Unions were once usefull. They now do little but promote and perpetuate mediocrity in the workforce. They stifle and inhibit innovation. They promote the status quo in the name of equality.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 31, 2009 at 1008 hrs




38. I would have liked to see MM take the higher road and allow the vote, but I can’t fault them for their actions.  They made an offer, informed the voters it was the final and unalterable offer, and the voters (union leaders) decided to try and negotiate.

    What I’d really like to see is that MM could re-open as a non-union shop, and stay in business, make profit, and the workers, community, and state could all benefit with MM.  Unfortunately the union destroyed any chance of that.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 31, 2009 at 1029 hrs




39. Its ok…  Mercury Marine moving all the production to Stillwater was enough to scare the county into offering an incentive package to keep the corporate here.  .5% county sales tax to subsidize a private corporation.

    Well done.  Screwed coming and going.  Welcome to the new economy.  Maybe I should sit down with the partners here at the office and discuss moving out of downtown Milwaukee.  I’ll pick a place desperate for jobs and go dangle the carrot in front of them too.  Then i’ll get 2 municipalities in a bidding war against each other all under the tease of “jobs”.  Hell, its taxpayer money they are bidding with. 

    Oh whats that???  We aren’t big enough… OOOHHH… Got it.  only BIG business gets to hold jobs hostage for public money.

    This whole Mercury Marine and Union issue is a case study in why our economy is so fucked up. 

    You’ve got unions who cared more about the union than the workers in it.  You’ve got municipalities who are ready to throw more shackles on the ankles of the taxpayers just to lure multi-billion dollar companies to shift a jobs within their boundaries.  No net gain for anyone but the company.

    Stop the insanity.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 31, 2009 at 1032 hrs




40. Typical socialist union mentality, vote, revote, revote until you get the results you want.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 31, 2009 at 1102 hrs




41. Typical socialist union mentality, vote, revote, revote until you get the results you want.

    That should read:vote, revote, criticize company management and play greed card, revote, then blame everyone else when you don’t get the results you want.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 31, 2009 at 1149 hrs




42. Komrade Kay: Your statement is beyond inane, and isn’t even cited in Das Capital. I don’t believe you run a company or any of the other things you claim. You made that up to prop up a bogus position.

    As far as MM is concerned, allowing the deadline to extend simply shows that they might consider other “extensions”” or changes. This was their final offer. PERIOD.

    I will experience a significant economic loss for my properties in FDL but I feel worse for everyone else up there. The workers were screwed by those who pretended to be their brothers. It always happens this way.

    Oh well the union can always start their own outboard motor company and hire everyone back at double union wage, but there are better at destroying industries than preserving them.

    Another one bites the dust.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 31, 2009 at 1841 hrs




43. >>> “Many companies use their “profits” to reinvest in the company, ...”

    Yea, and many companies use their profits to reward already over-compensated executives. Have they been taking raises?

    Posted by Jack Lohman on August 31, 2009 at 1934 hrs




44. Part of the problem with political discussion today is that has become a win at all cost proposition.  People who extend an opinion that is contrary to another opinion are called names, or have their honesty questioned. What I have written here is true and honest. My time is valuable to me therefore I not plan on posting here frequently.

    Mr Galt.  you may have misread my quote.  Its not from Das Kaptial but rather from the work cited. Which by the way I would recommend to anyone regardless of poltical view. Check out the reviews on Amazon It is a bit of a screed but a rather well written one.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 31, 2009 at 2053 hrs




45. The real problem with political discussion is that idiotic statements too often go unchallenged. You can call the company names and question their honesty and motives but you are not supposed to challenge those who do. Kay, your comments would be the same comments your supposed employees would make about you when you had to make some hard decisions that impacted their lives in a substantial way.

    The quote from Chris Hedges Empire of Illusions was too lame to have been in Das Kapital. Try reading a book that challenges your intellect. Something more challenging like Atlas Shrugged (it is actually happening in Wisconsin right now) or Thomas the Tank Engine Finds the Roundhouse.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on September 01, 2009 at 0805 hrs




46. Looks like John Galt and the other wingnuts who post here will have to eat a little humble pie.  Turns out that the union and the management have been talking, management has submitted a revised offer, and the workers will vote again toward the end of the week.

    Were I a union worker I would have voted for the first offer made, given the current economy, but the union wanted to play a little hardball, apparently.  Looks like both sides blinked a little.  Maybe now Johnny and the others can go back to bashing the Governor.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on September 01, 2009 at 2208 hrs




47. Mr Galt,

    The Thomas the Tank engine books are good but for my money it’s Amela Bedela hands down.
    As for The Fountainhead,  you would be the first person I have ever met who actually has read the whole work.  I never had the time to devote to it, I was too busy making a living My experience is the many claim to have read it but few actually finished the book.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on September 01, 2009 at 2300 hrs




48. RO: Looks like the union got spanked by their own membership and forced another vote. What did the evil capitalistic MercM do or propose that was different? Nothing. Will the union let the laid off workers vote since they are members too and paid dues? No.

    Wing nuts? That is just mean spirited and hurts my feelings and self esteem. Hater! Eat humble pie? For what reason? Bashing Jim Doyle is good for Wisconsin and more productive. Thanks for the advice.

    Kay: You were too busy “making a living” to read a good book but not too busy to read Chris Hedges…

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on September 02, 2009 at 0641 hrs




49. BTW: Mercury Marine did not have to allow another vote. It was a generous concession on their part. When will employees realize that working for someone is a privilege not a right. If the company is evil, you take your skills to another company, a competitor, and put the evil company out of business. When there are more jobs than workers, you can be more selective and demanding. When there are more workers than jobs you can do what you can do to get by, or, stand on principle and watch your family go without a few meals every day. They you will probably make demands on those generous enough to provide food for you, until they discover there are hungry people who are more grateful.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on September 02, 2009 at 0735 hrs




50. “As far as MM is concerned, allowing the deadline to extend simply shows that they might consider other ‘extensions’ or changes. This was their final offer. PERIOD.”

    Wrongo yet again, Johnny.  Why don’t you just admit that anti-union animus is apparently what gets you up in the morning and what keeps you up at night?  The bottom line is that both sides engaged in a little saber-rattling and that, in the end, cooler heads prevailed. 

    As I wrote above, if I were a member of that union I would have voted for the first deal, given the hard economic times and the difficulties facing that industry (which is, fundamentally, a frivolity, since few people need outboard motors to survive—it is recreation, not a livelihood).

    Again, assuming that the workers vote for the plan and the company stays in FDL, you idiots can go back to bashing the Governor 24/7, no?

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on September 02, 2009 at 0815 hrs




51. Clueless Observer: What changes did Mercury offer the Union. Name one. Surely you can count that high or am I giving you too much credit.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on September 02, 2009 at 0848 hrs