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Time With God

Phelony shares a moving experience.

I came back each week, although I did not take communion until I went to confession. Without too much information, this was very painful for me as I recounted the frailty and sin of my life thus far. I was beginning (and just beginning) to see the accountability that I was missing throughout my life. Accountability that I alone was responsible for. How far off course my life was from what God wants for me, and is according to his laws. It’s hard to face yourself squarely in God’s presence and humbly admit your weakness and beg for mercy and healing.

We all come short in God’s eye, which is why we are thankful that Jesus’ sacrifice for us on the cross absolves us.

Posted by Owen at 2346 hrs
Off-Duty

1. “We all come short in God’s eye, which is why we are thankful that Jesus’ sacrifice for us on the cross absolves us.”

   Speak for yourself.

   Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 25, 2008 at 0913 hrs
   
   
   

2. He is. He is speaking for those of us that believe. Unfortunately, there are others that are so twisted up in their own hatred that they can’t. It is not something that should be condemned but rather pitied.

   As an aside I find it interesting that while the left sees hatred in everything it is more often the case that they are merely projecting their own inner turmoil.

   Posted by fishaddict on November 25, 2008 at 1145 hrs
   
   
   

3. He clearly states: “We all come short in God’s eye…”  I think it’s fair to say that he wasn’t only speaking on behalf of those that share is particular delusion. 

   What does disbelief have to do with hatred?  Mine has nothing to do with hatred.  Your “holier than thou” attitude is no better than Owen’s.  It’s so arrogant to act as if you know this kind of stuff and to assume that those that don’t subscribe to it are full of hatred or deserve to be pitied. 

   As for that stuff about the left, I have no idea how that relates to this.  Those guys have some bad ideas, but as a group they never struck me as particularly hateful.

   Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 25, 2008 at 1310 hrs
   
   
   

4. What I can agree with is that it is necessary, therapeutic and humbling to take a hard look at one’s own shortcomings.  None of us is perfect, and if you’re like me you’re not even in the same zip code as perfect.  Sometimes we fail to do what we know to be right, sometimes we are selfish and fearful.  Taking stock of one’s imperfections can be eye-opening and sobering.  If done in a spirit of striving to do better, it can be a very positive experience.

   What I don’t agree with is that we’re morally called to live in accordance to the wishes of a supernatural, all-powerful creator.

   Just my $0.02.

   Posted by scott on November 25, 2008 at 1444 hrs
   
   
   

5. Indeed Scott, it doesn’t take a belief in whatever God you were most likely socialized to have faith in to question yourself, or to live earnestly.

   Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 25, 2008 at 2126 hrs
   
   
   

6. So to heck with all those silly people who do?????

   Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 25, 2008 at 2158 hrs
   
   
   

7. So to heck with all those silly people who do?????

   Of course not, and why in the world do you automatically assume that?

   Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 25, 2008 at 2223 hrs
   
   
   

8. Exactly.  Believers need to put the best construction possible on being called deluded, holier than thou, and arrogant, and being told that faith is merely an accident of socialization. 

   Honestly, such thin skin.

   Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 25, 2008 at 2320 hrs
   
   
   

9. How many born again Muslims or Buddhists or Taoists are there here in the U.S., Tony?

   How many born again Christians are there in Gaza?

   How many evangelical Christians in India?

   Data doesn’t lie.

   Doesn’t make faith wrong, or deluded, or stupid, or evil.

   Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 26, 2008 at 0737 hrs
   
   
   

10. ATV,
    It doesn’t make it wrong or evil but it basically does make it stupid and deluded.  Look those words up in the dictionary.  Then look up faith….  Words have meanings, that’s all I’m saying.

    “Believers need to put the best construction possible on being called deluded, holier than thou, and arrogant, and being told that faith is merely an accident of socialization.”

    Yeah, I guess you should put thebest construction on being deluded or that you embrace an accdient of socialization.  I think a lot of you like the “ignorance is bliss” argument.  But you could just NOT BE hollier than thou and arrogant, while still embracing your faith.  (I realize I’m kind of being arrogant and hollier than thou in this comment, but I think it’s obvious it’s in direct response to Owen starting it.  I keep my opinions to myself unless provoked).

    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 26, 2008 at 0950 hrs
    
    
    

11. I’m not saying “to heck” with anyone, so I don’t know where that’s coming from.  I was merely chiming in to gently remind religious people that they are not the sole owners of humbling introspection.  We non-believers do it as well.  It’s not irrevocably tied to a believe in anything supernatural.

    Posted by scott on November 26, 2008 at 0956 hrs
    
    
    

12. Exactly.  Believers need to put the best construction possible on being called deluded, holier than thou, and arrogant, and being told that faith is merely an accident of socialization.

    Tony, the point I was trying to make is that not everybody who isn’t a staunch believer automatically dismisses as stupid and inconsequential those who are. Turning your structure around, non-believers need to put the best construction on being called evil, (also) arrogant, and responsible for all the ills that have befallen society, including 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina.

    For every Bill Maher saying religion is the root of evil, there’s a Pat Robertson saying that feminists and gays caused God’s wrath to bring about 9/11. All I’m saying is that the overwhelming, and I mean overwhelming majority of people are more than willing to live and let live. For people of faith to assume that every non-believer holds some kind of animus against them is, I think, misguided and paranoid.

    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 26, 2008 at 1051 hrs
    
    
    

13. For every Bill Maher saying religion is the root of evil, there’s a Pat
    Robertson

    Utter nonsense.  For every Bill Maher there’s ten Pat Robertons.  Did you know that a recent public opinion poll Americans indicated that atheists were the most distrusted group of people?  More than gays, Muslims, etc.  If people like myself harbor some bitterness toward the religious, perhaps you should ask yourselves whether it’s entirely unwarranted.

    Posted by scott on November 26, 2008 at 1158 hrs
    
    
    

14. Scott, as far as sheer numbers go, you may be right, but I stand behind my basic premise.

    There’s been a narrative thrown about over the last 10-15 years or so that there’s some kind of “war against Christianity” going on, that Christianity is facing some kind of existential threat from hordes of non-believers in this country. That’s preposterous. The fact that this argument was put forth when evangelical Christians held the Presidency, the House Majority Leader, the Senate Majority Leader, and huge majorities in Congress who purported to speak for them made it all the more ridiculous.

    I’m not saying whether your bitterness (or mine, for that matter) is warranted or not, for obvious reasons. I’m simply sayng that people of faith shouldn’t automatically assume that everyone’s out to get them, because they’re not.  I’m saying the vast majority of people are more than willing to let people have their faith, as long as they don’t try and impose it on others. Which I realize is a whole ‘nother kettle of fish.

    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 26, 2008 at 1221 hrs
    
    
    

15. It is a matter of individuality,submission to God,accountability are just feelings next to guilt.Its a matter of choice though, you dont have to be a non believer if you dont feel accountable for actions.

    Posted by archie on November 28, 2008 at 1033 hrs
    
    
    

16. There’s been a narrative thrown about over the last 10-15 years or so that there’s some kind of “war against Christianity” going on,

    This is at least partly because of Christianity’s founding documents and narrative.  I have no doubt that first-century Christians faced quite a bit of persecution.  Since these are the people who compiled and wrote the Christian scriptures, you see that theme reflected in it all over the place. 

    Of course part of it is just because it’s a convenient narrative in much the same way that some white Americans find the idea that minorities are disadvantaging them in some way a convenient—if largely untrue—rallying cry.

    Posted by scott on November 28, 2008 at 1233 hrs
    
    
    

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