Those Evil Rich with Six-Figure Jobs
Glad to see we’re putting them in their place.
Mayor Dave Cieslewicz doesn’t want city bus drivers earning six-figures due to overtime and other compensation anymore.
Cieslewicz has asked Metro Transit General Manager Chuck Kamp, bus drivers union leader Gene Gowey and others to find a solution to absenteeism and staff shortfalls that created a demand for overtime and let one driver earn $159,258 and six others more than $100,000 in 2009.
Working OVERTIME when their fellow workers were ill or absent for other reasons?!? Those bastards!!! How DO they sleep at night?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 01, 2010 at 2340 hrs
If you RTFA, you learn that this is about trying to reduce absenteeism and other staffing issues, thus lessening the need to pay overtime, and thus putting less pressure of the city budget.
It isn’t about the $100K, but reducing the budget.
But, of course, you knew that Owen, and just decided to ignore the facts to make some kinda snarky point.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 01, 2010 at 2340 hrs
Apparently you found it irresistible to take a cheap shot, Owen. Think about it from this perspective: Would you want to cross the street in front of a bus driven by a driver who routinely drove 80 hours per week? I would not.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 01, 2010 at 2344 hrs
I could care less how many hours a bus driver works, there is NO way they should be able to hit 160K. Even if he worked 60 hours a week, every week, all year long, it would still mean his base pay was more than $45 an hour or $90K, for a job where there would be a waiting list at 1/3 of that.
I’m all for a bus driver working every hour he can to feed his family. But I’m paying those wages, and the market for that skill set is just not $45 an hour. Only our government could accept paying that.
The mayor shoud simply outsource ALL of those jobs. Heck, I offer today to fill them for a small fraction of that.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 01, 2010 at 2352 hrs
Curt;
According to the article, the pay scale for bus drivers maxes out at 26/hr. That is not out of line for some at the top of the pay scale for drivers in other cities. I would be interested in finding out how the individual managed to triple his base salary though.
I think they will find that these guys would call in sick (still a paid status under most union contracts) giving another driver the opportunity to cover for overtime, and then THAT driver call in later in the week and be covered by the first. Each works 40 hours, but gets paid for 52 (4 days straight time, one day sick pay, one day at time and half). For a senior driver it is doable depending on how fast they accrue sick time and how much they had banked. Or, take a few of the overtime shifts as comp time, and you don’t even have to touch the sick bank. (work 4 days at straight, take one day off using comp time, work a day of OT taken as comp time (12 hours), the next week, work 4 days, take a day of comp, work one of OT taken as pay and still bank 4 hours comp time) wash and repeat, a group of 3 or 4 guys working together would easily rack up enough paid hours and not truly drive more than 40 hours in any given week, add in holidays and you get there pretty fast.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 02, 2010 at 0513 hrs
It’s not the bus drivers fault. If management is stupid enough to pay bus drivers these salaries due to their mismanagment, and poor contract skills - why is it the fault of the bus driver?
And where do I sign up?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 02, 2010 at 0716 hrs
The part I liked was how these high earning years are important for calculating pension benefits. Only in Wisconsin can a public bus driver make $100-$150k and then probably retire at age 55 with a pension that pays them $70k a year.
Can anyone apply for these jobs or do you need a Socialist Party card?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 02, 2010 at 0831 hrs
I used to work for the county mental health center (the job from hell), scheduled the nursing staff, worked with 2 represented unions and there was a CNA who routinely made $150,000 plus every year, he made more than some of the staff doctors. At the time I worked there from 1998 to 2001 a CNA was paid approx. $14.00 per hour. They called this guy the king of overtime because he took every single open shift he could. He always worked double shifts (16 hrs) on his scheduled days and then did the same on his days off. He usually worked almost 200 hours in a 2 week pay period. It was a well known fact that he would find a place to sleep on his overtime shift and because of the “brotherhood” mentality no one would report him. He worked a 3pm to 11pm shift as his regular scheduled shift and then always picked up a night shift from 11pm to 7pm as overtime so it was easy for him to hide because there were hardly any supervisors around, in fact there was only 1 “house manager” who supervised the entire facility. No one would report him because they were afraid of him, no one would ever challenge him for an overtime shift because he had the most seniority and management couldn’t do anything about it because it was all according to the negotiated contract. Overtime was awarded by seniority and this was spelled out exactly in the contract.
When I asked my supervisor who was director of nursing, how can this guy do a good job of patient care when he’s working 200 hrs. a week. Doesn’t that much work and so little sleep make him a hazard on the job. She said there was nothing they could do - end of discussion.
I certainly can understand how the bus drivers made so much money doing the extra shifts. Madison has an opportunity right now to make changes because the contract expired last year but the question is will they do it. Also, something strikes me as unusual here and that’s the fact that people are all outraged over a bus driver making a lot of money. Who are we to judge how much anyone can make or can’t make. If he’s playing by the rules, and it appears he was, then why all the anger? He’s just another person who has figured out the system and how to make it work for him. There’s a bigger issue here and it has to do with the unions, management, hiring practices, etc.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 02, 2010 at 0905 hrs
The mayor said Metro is “very well managed,”
Would this be the same Madison Metro that teetered on collapse until it was bailed out by $20 per student per semester in UW segregated fees?
I don’t fault employees taking as much overtime as they can, I fault the management allowing it to happen in that manner. It’s just good fiscal leadership to maximize performance & minimize expenses. Figuring out a way to get the coverage you need with as much pay being regular instead of overtime should be a core job requirement.
Also - under no circumstances should a pension be determined by base plus overtime. It’s just too easy to be abused. Base only.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 02, 2010 at 0921 hrs
Isn’t this just typical of government? Arcane union contracts begging abuse of the system. Excessive and unregulated compensation. Always teetering on the verge of insolvency and then requiring additional monies to be added by the addition of forced fees and taxes. $40/hr bus drivers and excessive absenteeism.
That’s your basic civilian government system in a nutshell… a system that is repeated not just in Madison, but all over the nation at every level of government.
No real surprises here at all.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 02, 2010 at 0931 hrs
Would these new hires to cover the shortfall be less of a cost than the overtime paid to existing employees?
Plus if you have an issue with absenteeism, fire the problem absent people. I’m sure there are plenty of others looking for a job right now.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 02, 2010 at 0958 hrs
Would these new hires to cover the shortfall be less of a cost than the overtime paid to existing employees?
I don’t believe you can categorically say one way or the other. On one hand, paying people standard pay is obviously much cheaper than overtime pay. However, it cost money to bring new employees on - training & certification, general administrative stuff, plus benefits. When you pay some people OT instead of hiring somebody new, while you pay them more, you don’t have the added benefits of another person. I’d imagine insurance is a significant factor for bus drivers as well - on less person to insure. In some situations, it might be more cost effective to hire additional staff, in others paying OT might be better.
BUT again, OT pay should not effect pension. I’d even be willing to hear a compromise and that says “excessive OT” should not be counted where OT is defined - maybe OT in excess of X percent of your base will not be included in determining pension. (Personally I think defined benefit pension should end anyway - nobody in the private sector has it, and it’s just too much of an unknown expense.)
And if it’s widespread absenteeism and similar factors creating a lot of the overtime, then again it’s a management issue to address those problems.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 02, 2010 at 1019 hrs
As the article says this has been a problem for many years. I lived in the madison area when this came up about 10-12 years ago. The issue is not just about money. It is about the hours that a driver spends behind the wheel. Yes, the money is an issue, but the drivers that are racking up those hours are a danger due to lack of sleep. there are federal CDL laws that should regulate some of this. who is enforcing that aspect?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 02, 2010 at 1214 hrs
It’s not as easy to fire someone as you think. You can’t just snap your fingers and say “be gone with you” because there are union contracts to give them cover. The reasons for the absenteeism are also part of the contract and once again it’s the unions holding the cards here because management has negotiated these issues. I was in Madison over the weekend and opinion comments in the paper are very much up in arms over these drivers. One comment in particular from an out of work truck driver who would love to work for these wages and asks why can’t the city hire out of work drivers.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 02, 2010 at 1222 hrs
elorich
Ok, if bus drivers max at 26 an hour, then this guy would have had to work 100 hours a week, all year with no vacation to hit that much in comp. No one is capable of that. I’ve worked more than a few 100 hr weeks in my day, and you can’t even do two of those in a row.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 02, 2010 at 1250 hrs
Curt,
That was the situation 10-12 years ago. these guys were routinely working 100 hour weeks. there is little oversight from a safety standpoint. Where are the feds on this? Don’t these guys and women have to keep log books on thehours driven? I too have worked the 100 hour weeks and it is damn tiring.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 02, 2010 at 1308 hrs
@kneenor
Yeah I understand that. Personally I dislike any sort of “public employee” union because usually they just stand in the way of any sort of common sense and just worry about getting their members more and more from the bottomless pit of money they all seem to think is there.
Also, isn’t it a bit ridiculous that something like transportation is left in the hands of government people? They’re lucky they can tie their shoes without having a committee meeting and passing some resolution about how to tie the shoe and we trust them with bus service?
Anyone ever wonder why they never seem to fix any problems? What would they campaign on if they did?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 02, 2010 at 1321 hrs
The Madison Bus Company was already unionized when the city took it over. The city took it over because the private company was losing money and could not find any buyers. The alternatives were for the city to take over or have no buses in Madison.
Almost every transit system in the country was once privately owned. Almost every one was taken over because the transit system was failing.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 02, 2010 at 1353 hrs
Curt,
That is just it, you dont have to work 100 hour weeks, just get paid for them. Try this example:
WORK SCHEDULE
MON 7-3
TUE 7-3
WED 7-3
THU OFF
FRI 7-3
SAT 7-3
SUN OFFACTUAL TIMES WORKED
MON 7-3 (STRAIGHT TIME 8 HRS PD)
TUES TAKE COMP TIME FOR SHIFT (HRS PD) COVER 3-11 (8 HRS AT 1.5X 12 HRS COMP TIME EARNED)
WED 7-3 TAKE COMP TIME (8 HRS PAID) DAY OFF
THU SCHEDULED DAY OFF PICK UP SHIFT 8 HRS @1.5X=12 HRS PD)
FRI 7-3 TAKE COMP TIME (8 HOURS PD) 3-11 WORKED FOR 12 HOURS COMP TIME
SAT 7-3 STRAIGHT TIME 3-11 1.5X FOR 12 HOURS PD)
SUN SCHEDULED OFF TAKE SHIFT FOR 12 HOURS PDTOTALS FOR THE WEEK
STRAIGHT TIME 40 HOURS IN PAID STATUS (SCHEDULED SHIFT OR COMP TIME TAKEN)
COMP TIME USED=24 HOURS
COMP TIME EARNED=24 HOURS
HOURS WORKED AT 1.5X 24 FOR 36 HOURS PAY
ACTUAL TIME DRIVING 56 HOURS, ONE DAY OFF AND ONE DOUBLE
TOTAL HOURS PAID 76 HOURSThrow in a holiday here and there, or forego the day off, or work a second double, and you get to 100 hours of pay quite easily. Take 2 weeks vacation, 50 weeks x even just this 76 hours/week x $26/hr= $98,800 with no real hardship, one day off, one double.
I know corrections officers who do this routinely, a group of 3 or 4, one calls in for comp time or sick time, the shift MUST be covered, just a a bus route would need to be. then one of the other guys returns the favor the next day.
I must say though, I would like to see how some one tripled their base pay….
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 02, 2010 at 1439 hrs
So it’s OK to prop up failing companies that provide transportation service. What’s the opposition to the train now?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 02, 2010 at 1446 hrs
elovrich -
Comp time hours don’t normally count toward overtime. Switching the hours you work in a day would not normally give you overtime. The employer provides one or the other, depending on the Wage and Hours act and application of exemption.
I don’t believe that the federal regs do apply to city buses, but they seem sensible:
10-Hour Driving Limit
May drive a maximum of 10 hours after 8 consecutive hours off duty.
15-Hour On-Duty Limit
May not drive after having been on duty for 15 hours, following 8 consecutive hours off duty. Off-duty time is not included in the 15-hour period.
60/70-Hour On-Duty Limit
May not drive after 60/70 hours on duty in 7/8 consecutive days.
Jay,As a society, we decided that we need transit systems and should pay for them through taxes so people who cannot afford automobiles and taxis can get around.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 02, 2010 at 1530 hrs
Free Lunch,
I am familiar enough with AFSCME contracts to know that comp time DOES count towards 40 hours in paid status in many instances. I would need to see the contract in question, but I bet you will find it does. The same as if an employee calls in sick on one day and works on a day off, the day off is paid at time and half. plus 8 hours paid for the sick day.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 02, 2010 at 1537 hrs
As a society, we decided that we need transit systems and should pay for them through taxes so people who cannot afford automobiles and taxis can get around.
Why do people have an all or nothing attitude with these things? Couldn’t we cut government run transportation by 50%, eliminate the waste and pointless routes and still have a good system?Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 02, 2010 at 1641 hrs
Unions are an interesting thing. In AK I worked with a guy who was a social worker for the state mental hospital. He also applied for a job with the state as a social worker in another job…..he was drawing two salaries at the same time for the state of AK and did this till caught two years later….he worked till noon at one and then noon till 6 at the other. Union supported this dude and he resigned one job kept the other.
Another nurse at the state hospital showed up drunk or stoned 3 times. Sent her to rehab. She returned and showed up stoned or drunk 3 times, sent to rehab. She returned and stoled meds from the med room…..Union supported her and said we did not support her in her time of need.
I believe in benefits, fair wages, fair work schedules and equal pay for equal work, but unions have lost their direction and balance.
Bus driver’s have the right to drive and overtime but the contract is out of wack, as is the teacher unions contracts in this state.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 02, 2010 at 1809 hrs
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