well said we need a ross perot type person to take this to the masses like he did with his charts.
just show this to the peoples, not with stick figures though.
maybe a prime time so people can have facts not feelings and lies.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 31, 2009 at 0724 hrs
Hey O,
When you go to the embed code in YouTube, there’s a customize option that lets you choose the narrower version (480px).
That way it doesn’t overlap the sidebars.
Posted by Jed on August 31, 2009 at 0758 hrs
Neither of these guys understand health insurance and the health care system.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 31, 2009 at 1029 hrs
So I should want my healthcare to be covered by 70% vounteer doctors and nurses like the fire departments,
I should want to pay UPS and Fed Ex 5 - 10$ to ship a letter as opposed to the USPS charge,
I should not want Medicare that covers the oldest, weakest, poorest to continue or expand,
I should want my child’s health care to be decided by investors profit not by her doctor (this has happened to my well insured family),
and I should insure my house, car, BY LAW but not my ass.
Makes so much sense!Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 31, 2009 at 1506 hrs
“A woman married three times walked into a bridal shop one day and told the sales clerk that she was looking for a wedding gown for her fourth wedding. “Of course‚ madam‚” replied the sales clerk‚ “exactly what type and color dress are you looking for?”
The bride to be said‚ “A long frilly white dress with a veil.”
The sales clerk hesitated a bit‚ then said‚ “Please don’t take this the wrong way‚ but gowns of that nature are considered more appropriate for brides who are being married the first time - for those who are a bit more innocent‚ if you know what I mean! Perhaps ivory or sky blue would be nice?’’
“Well‚” replied the customer‚ a little peeved at the clerk’s directness‚ ” I can assure you that a white gown would be quite appropriate. Believe it or not‚ despite all my marriages‚ I remain as innocent as a first-time bride.
You see‚ my first husband was so excited about our wedding‚ he died as we were checking into our hotel.
My second husband and I got into such a terrible fight in the limo on our way to our honeymoon that we had that wedding annulled immediately and never spoke to each other again.”‘‘What about your third husband?” asked the sales clerk.
“That one was a Democrat…” said the woman‚ “...every night for four years‚ he just sat on the edge of the bed and told me how good it was going to be‚ but nothing ever happened.”Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 31, 2009 at 1553 hrs
so i didn’t quite catch their competing proposal. how do we make it so everyone gets affordable health care? that is what is wrong with the system. so if we leave health insurance to private industry insurance companies, how do we make sure that someone without a job, with a preexisting condition doesn’t have to pay $2,700/mo for health care.
in that fire insurance example, they talk about the fire response but they don’t talk about fire insurance. with fire insurance about the only thing i have every seen them be able to determine about your house and whether you were more likely to have a fire is whether you have aluminum wiring or not. so they don’t know who is going to have a fire and so the rates are very even for everyone getting fire insurance. but with health care they examine your files for any preexisting conditions AND if they think you didn’t disclose something they can deny coverage. So you’re thinking you are covered and could have had an opportunity to go to another insurance company when you were buying insurance but now you are in the middle of a problem and the company you chose is not covering you.
it is easy to attack what is proposed but thinking of something that covers the problems and aligns with your ideolgy is the problem.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 31, 2009 at 2027 hrs
I have to question why everyone deserves affordable health care. I don’t recall it being a right. We don’t have mandatory govt food…we waste a whole lot of money begging people to take advantage of it but we don’t require it because as I see all the time, even with food stamps, welfare, and assistance of every shape and form, we still can’t seem to overcome the ridiculous lazyness and uselessness of too many parents out there.
Want to know why insurance is so high? Well how about this: I have to pay for wellness checks for women as well as birth control. I am male and if I was single, why would I feel the need to have a plan to pay for a gyno? I also question why my 65yr old mother needs to have childbirth coverage as part of her plan, or downs syndrome coverage. She is done having kids and since the change, can’t have kids. We pay, as mandated coverage for tons of stuff we neither need nor may want. That is also part of the strange numbers of people that are not insured…they don’t want it. Your average 20yr old does not have the forethought to save for retirement, insurance, or good food. They may need it but they don’t pay for it because they are still invincible.
I have a farm and have the option to pay, as a potential part of my plan, a bioterrorism policy. Do I need it? No. Do I have to pay for it? No. Should I as a farm owner require all you other homeowners and renters pay for crop loss coverage? If we had the same attitude toward home insurance as we do toward health insurance, sure. It would save me some money to get to defray the cost to all of you folks.
So for all you “affordable coverage” and universal coverage folks, pony up. Next time hail hits and pounds my fields down you can help defray the costs and help me rebuild.
Posted by fishaddict on August 31, 2009 at 2227 hrs
fishaddict:
as it stands right now it if someone shows up at an emergency room they are treated as a matter of law. just to be clear if someone showed up at an emergency room with a severed arm and they did not have an ability to pay you believe that they should be turned away because there is not a right to health care.if on the other hand you believe that a person with a severed arm should be treated regardless of ability to pay then we have an insurance problem and the problem with our current system is that it is more expensive than any other system.
if a person with a severed arm is going to be served by the emergency room then they should contribute to the medical insurance system up to their ability to pay. as it stands right now many people are execluded from the insurance system because either there is not affordable health insurance or there is not ability to participate up to their ability to pay. so the rest of us is pay for those folks anyway through cost shifting.
your other insurance examples don’t work too well for health insurance because we get treated for our severed arm in our current system regardless of whether we have insurance or not.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 31, 2009 at 2252 hrs
But you fail to address the basic issue of pay. if they are unable to pay for insurance, then what are the odds that they pay anything in taxes? Right now, the lower 50%+ of the population pays nothing in taxes that would pay for this program. They would continue to pay nothing. We have a welfare system set up called badger care and even that spends money to advertise and beg people to sign up. With the current welfare system we have now, no child should go without medical insurance of some kind and yet we hear all the time of the hundreds of thousands of kids in this city alone(Milwaukee) who have no food, medical/dental care, or homes. Now either someone is lying, or we have a vast population of folks out there that are either too stupid, lazy, or useless to get on the public dole. I do know a number of church folk that make due with what they have and pay their way with what they can afford and to the lowliest one, poor as some of them are, the kids go to the doc when they need to and the community gets the funds needed to help. That in and of itself is a form of insurance that is not considered when compiling the govt numbers. The rest need to be taken out back and neutered because if you can’t take care of your kids you should not be having any.
As for the other insurance issues, my examples are not the issue. Try this on for size, hurricanes. New Orleans is still rebuilding. Why? We, in WI, had a couple of town wiped completely off the map. The land was scoured by tornados. They rebuilt in no time at all with no money from the govt. Why? Because they were not useless. Mississippi got hit as hard as LA and they seem to be doing just fine without all of the billions of dollars in taxpayer insurance. Why? Because they are not useless. Because I am in the Navy and we have a base in LA, I got to go down there to help rebuild. Want to know what I found? A bunch of guys in a bar from WI because they saw that the work was down in LA and they flocked to it. They are rebuilding the city because the folks that live there can’t be bothered.
Bottom line is that the folks that have insurance will have to pay more and more for the ones that can’t be bothered to get off their a$$ and take care of themselves and their offspring. It pains me every time I say it but there is a whole segment of the population that needs to fall off the face of the earth. We can’t keep supporting the deadweight for ever because they have nothing better to do than breed and cause problems. Do we need a safety net? Sure. But does that safety net need to fully support generation after generation of the same families? Absolutely not.
Posted by fishaddict on September 01, 2009 at 0841 hrs
as much as i can understand the current bill hr3200 through all the legalease and wording i don’t understand the bill says that either you get health care insurance or you can see your unpaid hospital bill on your tax bill to the irs. so that is for the individual. the program is paid for by a tax increase for those that make more that $200,000. so the program follows paygo rules. but it is only the house version and what comes out of the senate and then is reconciled might be something completely different.
regardless of a particular individual and their propensity to sloth, the current system offers the worst of all insurance options. rather than addressing and forecasting for people or even setting up a system that pays for outcomes we surpress logical health care treatments and pay for the consequences in emergency room visits.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on September 01, 2009 at 1939 hrs
You would be correct in that the current system is terrible. What we have now is a partially socialized system. If we are going to pay welfare for those that can’t afford but at the same time allow them to make their own desisions then we shoot ourselves in the foot.
For example, I worked for Waukesha Co mental health many years ago. One of the things that we saw was menatally ill patients returning to florid conditions over and over again. The reason why is because while they were community placed they failed to take their meds which was their right. Unfortunately, many times, after each episode, they would be worse off than before they started thereby requiring stronger meds and longer in patient stays to stablize. This costs scads of money. We also know that, for the most part, the population that needs the most ongoing health attention is not the 45 year old guy that makes $150k. Sure he may have ulcers, and will probably work himself into a heart attack or a stroke but he is not 400#, sedentary, and living under filthy conditions in cramped areas of the city. Does anyone honestly think that suddenly with socialized medicine people that cannot seem to show up for work on time or even consistantly, meet appts. to see the social worker, probation officer, or any other official, or get their kids to school on time if at all will make a doctor’s appt and show up for it? My brother in law teaches at an MPS year round school and it started the new session 5 weeks ago. he got 4 new kids in yesterday. These are kids that he had in last session so they are not new to the school but the parents apparently forgot to send there kids in on time…5 weeks late.
What we will see is a huge influx to the ER and a health index that will improve only slightly if at all. Add to this the immense cost.
I spent the better part of my early life in school, got my degrees, held off on marriage, kids, buying a house, and settling down till I was in my mid 30s so that I could offer a good life to my wife, children, and myself. When my wife goes back to work full time(the kids are 2, 1, and one still baking) we will be considered rich. I have a mid level tech job and I am in the reserves and I run a farm. I work 50 hours/week minimum at my job, average 3-4 hours a night around the farm and then all day weekends, and I am gone 4-5 days a month for the reserves and then at least 3 weeks at a crack/year (one unofficial unit motto is 2 days a month and 2 weeks a year my ass). I work very hard for what I have and I held off on many fun things for what? So that I could pay half my income so that some piece of garbage could squeeze out a bunch of kids and turn them into welfare clones? I volunteer at my brother in law’s school and see the divide. They are cute, attentive, wonderful kids until they reach about 3rd grade. Then they develop the mentality of their parents and deserve everything, demand rather than earn respect, and think that we are there to serve. Because I volunteer, I just stopped working with the older kids. I don’t need to put up with that but apparently I am required to pay for others to do so.
Unfortunately, what we have is a population that does not appreciate. It has nothing to do with color, religion, or even community. It has everthing to do with socialization. My dad used to say that if you did not work hard and earn something you don’t treat it with the same respect and care as when it is given to you. Free stuff is treated as disposable and soon that is what the society of this Great Nation will become.
Posted by fishaddict on September 02, 2009 at 0753 hrs
I’ve got a question for everybody to consider concerning our current pari-mutuel situation. I have been continually insured for the past 30+ years but as a small businessman I have changed insurance companies a number of times. If I were to be stricken with some condition that my current insurer deems to be pre-existing, why isn’t my previous insurer responsible?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on September 02, 2009 at 1653 hrs
I am thinking that that would be just too much. Look at what an OB/GYN pays for malpractice. It is among the highest rates of all the disciplines. I am thinking that it would be half that if the Doc was not held responsible for things that happen to turn up as late as 18 years later. A good lawyer can make a hang nail relate to birth and so as with your situation, can you imagine the cost of insurance if they had to cover something that they may be charged with 60 years after you stopped paying your premium? The preexisting condition thing is an interesting situation and I admit I am not really sure how to deal with it equitably.
Posted by fishaddict on September 02, 2009 at 2158 hrs
fa has a good point. Much of the cost of healthcare is unnecessary tests to protect against lawsuits. The US is alone in the world with its ridiculous legal system. I’m still disappointed in the GOP for not making some changes when they had the chance.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on September 03, 2009 at 1014 hrs
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