Robson Uses Veterans’ Day To Bash Bush
Now in its sixth year, the war in Iraq has lasted longer than American involvement in World War I, World War II, and the Civil War.
More than 4,000 Americans have died in the war, and over 60,000 have been wounded.
The Washington Post estimates, conservatively, that the war in Iraq will cost $3 trillion by the time it is over. The war has deepened our federal deficit, while the Iraqi government is sitting on a $79 billion surplus from oil revenue.
Meanwhile, the United States is reeling from plant closings, job losses, and economic uncertainty.
The war has cost thousands of lives, billions of dollars, and has done nothing to capture the terrorists responsible for the September 11, 2001 attacks.
On November 4th, Americans elected a president who is committed to ending the war in Iraq.
Senator Robson couldn’t just thank the vets? She had to use the opportunity to bash Bush and Republicans?
Very tacky and classless.
This is disgusting. Veterans Day, and other such observances, should be non-partisan. It is the few times when both parties can put their differences aside and focus on the sacrafices made by men and women in the Armed Forces, past and present.
But Robson throws all of that completely out the window for some partisan and political diatribe that has little to do with honoring veterans. I suppose this is the type of hubris we can expect from the new Democrat Majority.
I can’t wait to hear her Memorial Day speech.
Posted by on November 11, 2008 at 1406 hrsthe iraq war has lasted longer than world war 1, world war 2, and the civil war, it’s true. How many Americans were killed in those wars again? Less than 4000?
Posted by Matt on November 11, 2008 at 1407 hrsThis is what I’ve come to expect from Washington. They don’t represent us, they represent their special interests. The interests that paid big bucks to put them there. Even the clueless tacky ones get re-elected over and over. Like Barney Fwank and John Murtha, Nancy Pelosi, Ted Stevens…
Posted by on November 11, 2008 at 1407 hrsGrandstanding… They do it cause it works… Let us remember the people on this blog are the minority. The politics of show business is aimed at the uninformed masses.
The audience her comments were directed to is sitting nodding their ignorant heads right now saying MMMM HMMMM!
Posted by on November 11, 2008 at 1422 hrsCan’t wait for her Christmas message.
Posted by on November 11, 2008 at 1423 hrsWhile I think such remarks are truly inappropriate for Veteran’s Day, I also hope that nobody is implying that all those opposed to this war are ignorant. That would be, what’s the word I need, stupid.
Posted by on November 11, 2008 at 1441 hrsNo surprise here-she sounds just like every other America hating collectivist. What a bitch.
Posted by on November 11, 2008 at 1505 hrsI didn’t say that people who oppose the war are ignorant.
What I said, and what the post is saying, is that using Veterans’ Day as an opportunity to regurgitate partisan rhetoric for the purpose of political gain is deplorable.
Robson, and the staff person that crafted this press release, simply don’t know when to shut it off.
Posted by on November 11, 2008 at 1527 hrsJust read a NEWS story that there are more MARINES killed in motorcycle accidents each month than are killed in IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN. Amazing!
Posted by on November 11, 2008 at 1615 hrsHey Mr PP - I was actually making reference to the comment by xxp. I completely agree that this was not the time or place to make such political statements. Veterans didn’t get to decide who we went to war with. And, while I felt Bush was not our best president, the election is over. His term is alnost over. Let’s all stop the Bush bashing. We’ve got bigger fish to fry.
Posted by on November 11, 2008 at 1621 hrsMmm...fish fry.
Posted by on November 11, 2008 at 1623 hrsLet’s get real; Robson’s a liberal. Did you REALLY expect anything else? Why is she shooting her mouth off on Veteran’s Day in the first place? How ‘bout choosing a....dare I say...veteran?
Posted by on November 11, 2008 at 1638 hrsJeez, quit hyperventilating you guys. Yeah, I probably would not have chosen veteran’s day to knock their commander in chief, but you guys make it sound like she should be drawn and quartered for treason or something. Relax. Differences of opinion on the tactfulness of her timing is one thing, but one suspects that a good deal of your venom stems from the fact that she criticizes Bush at all.
You know, at some point you guys should make peace with the fact that the American people no longer like Bush. They think he’s done a shitty job, especially with regard to the Iraq war. Attacking people who say so as traitors is going to make you very busy people unless you learn how to just accept it.
Posted by scott on November 11, 2008 at 1659 hrsHell, I’ve been critical of President Bush when I disagree with him, but the point here is that it is just wrong to use today, the day we honor those who fought and died for our freedoms, to spew this crap.
Posted by on November 11, 2008 at 1729 hrsScott,
The description I see is disgusting, clueless tacky, Grandstanding, inappropriate.....
Only one guy above seems to go past that. You are that only one talking about treason and being a traitor.
In fact after reading your post again all you are doing is the same thing as Robson. Using this post to go after our sitting President.
You know, at some point you guys should make peace with the fact that the American people no longer like Bush. They think he’s done a shitty job, especially with regard to the Iraq war.
While my role was minor compared to others.....From this vet let me say PISS OFF!
Posted by on November 11, 2008 at 2116 hrsI’m with Hello! FELDSTIEN and Robson could not be more wrong. No class. No clue. It will come around.
Posted by on November 11, 2008 at 2142 hrsYou are that only one talking about treason and being a traitor.
So the “one guy” doesn’t count? when someone uses phrases like “America hating” that counts, don’t you think? And I didn’t see any of you call him out on it, either.
You know what? I am going to “go after” our president any frickin’ time I feel like it. “Piss off” yourself.
I myself might have chosen a different occasion to express my feelings about the president, but I by no means think it’s worthy of anyone’s outrage. Get over yourselves and stop with the masturbatory worship of militarism. It’s not required that we imbue anyone who’s ever worn a uniform with all the virtue and goodness in the universe while simultaneously regarding them as infallible experts in all matters geopolitical. It’s enough to say thank you and make sure that veterans are receiving fair pay and adequate benefits.
Actually, no, that’s not enough. If you want to honor the men and women who serve in the military you should probably call out politicians who engage in unnecessary wars, especially if they screw up the execution of the war on top of it.
Posted by scott on November 11, 2008 at 2220 hrsScott,
You miss the point entirely. Veterans Day is a day to say “thank you” to those who served in uniform on behalf of all of us. It’s not about any single war, administration, or policy. We have 364 other days to bitch about the rest. Heck, we can even bitch on this day in separate communications. But to mar what is supposed to be a simple “thanks” with partisan attacks is shameful, tacky, and deserving of condemnation.
Time and a place… time and a place…
Posted by Owen on November 11, 2008 at 2243 hrs
= 1 guyJeez, quit hyperventilating you guys.
Get over yourselves and stop with the masturbatory worship of militarism.
1 Holiday to observe the men and women who took the oath to serve their country is too much to ask. It’s these men and women whose sacrifice protects your right to say stupid disrespectful things.
Your exaggerations make you a joke!
Posted by on November 11, 2008 at 2306 hrsZELL MILLER: Never in the history of the world has any soldier sacrificed more of the freedom and liberty of total strangers than the American soldier. And our soldiers don’t just see freedom abroad, they preserve it for us here at home. It has been said truthfully that it is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press. [cheers] It is the soldier, not the poet who has given us the freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the agitator, who has given us the freedom to protest. It is the soldier who salutes the flag, serves beneath the flag, whose coffin is draped by the flag, who gives that protester the freedom he abuses to burn that flag.
Hey Scott - next earth day - I think that Paul Ryan should propose strip mining SW Wisconsin for the coal....
Tell me how you would feel about that....
What Robeson did is the equivalent of some white supremacist giving a speech about the benefits of the KKK on MLK day.
Posted by on November 12, 2008 at 0904 hrsBullshit. Those things are not equivalent at all.
A very cogent case can be made in support of making comments like these on Veteran’s Day. It goes like this. One of many ways to honor those who agree to serve, do their nation’s will instead of their own, and risk their lives, is to make double damned sure that we never ask for that sacrifice unless it is absolutely necessary. Furthermore, we have an obligation to elect civilian leaders who are capable of executing such a war properly. People or parties who do not fulfill these moral imperatives should be called out loudly and publicly. To do otherwise is to disrespect those who serve and their families.
With all that said, I repeat: I myself probably would not have chosen that day to make those remarks, but I don’t think it’s outrage-worthy at all. Those of us breathing into paper bags over the fact that someone criticized our civilian military leaders on veteran’s day need to relax a little and spend some of that energy giving better benefits to veterans.
Posted by scott on November 12, 2008 at 0932 hrsYeah Scott they are....
Robson hates all things military… she has that history. Much like you do. The reality is that the military is there to protect the boarders and the citizens of this country. Not hand out rolls in a soup kitchen.
If she were not a politician, she would be down on the east side ‘drumming for peace’ wearing a ‘books not bombs’ t-shirt.
Posted by on November 12, 2008 at 0942 hrsI’m sorry, Clint, I don’t really know what you’re talking about. I don’t know what soup kitchens and drums have to do with what I just said. Break it down for me?
Posted by scott on November 12, 2008 at 0949 hrsNot much to break down for you Scott…
You don’t like the military. You have shown that over and over again… You are on the side of the aisle that believes that you can ‘drum for peace’ and that a soldier should be in a soup kitchen feeding the hungry not protecting our freedoms.
You can play dumb- which you do quite well when someone calls you out - but facts are facts
Posted by on November 12, 2008 at 1013 hrsFacts are facts? Perhaps so, but wild and baseless accusations are wild and baseless accusations, too.
Posted by scott on November 12, 2008 at 1018 hrsWhat is wild or baseless… you have a history here Scott… fortunately hardrives of your drivel last longer than your memory.
Posted by on November 12, 2008 at 1021 hrsNo rational person could possibly hope to show that anything I’ve said or written amounts to a wholesale dislike for the military. Furthermore, I’ve never been at--or wanted to be at--any “peace” protest, nor do I belong to any pacifist groups or movements. My father served in the military. I myself thought about doing so at two different points in my life--including during wartime. I would be very proud of any of my own children if they decided to do so. Your charges are completely without basis and are nothing more than a knee-jerk reaction to some liberal caricature which I most certainly do not fit.
If the only way you can argue with me is to make shit up about my positions, maybe you should rethink your own.
(I’m waiting for the more honorable and intellectually honest conservative commenters to chime in with their support.)
Posted by scott on November 12, 2008 at 1043 hrsnothing more than a knee-jerk reaction to some liberal caricature which I most certainly do not fit.
You might want to look in the mirror. You do fit. Especially as you sit at your pc and vaguely support Robson for what she did… not enough to commit just enough to show your true colors
BTW - end of conversation from me… arguing with a commy pinko lib is like wrestling with a pig… you both get dirty except the pig enjoys it. Enjoy your mud scott
Posted by on November 12, 2008 at 1050 hrsOut of curiosity, do you ever get concerned that some “commy pinko lib” is going to punch you in your hateful, sanctimonious face?
For fuck’s sake, shut up already if all you have to contribute is smears on people’s patriotism.
(Still waiting for any fair-minded conservative commenter to join in here...)
Posted by scott on November 12, 2008 at 1645 hrsScott,
Fair-minded is what you are looking for? Fine, “commy oinko lib” contributes as much to the debate of this thread as “Get over yourselves and stop with the masturbatory worship of militarism.”
You have yet to miss an opportunity to exaggerate in your posts.
Only one post comes close to going over the line when you said
Jeez, quit hyperventilating you guys. Yeah, I probably would not have chosen veteran’s day to knock their commander in chief, but you guys make it sound like she should be drawn and quartered for treason or something.
He didn’t say she hates America, he said she sounds like the people who hate America. He also called her a bitch witch in inappropriate for civil discourse. You take one comment exaggerate it and label it to everyone else who commented.
Get over yourselves and stop with the masturbatory worship of militarism. It’s not required that we imbue anyone who’s ever worn a uniform with all the virtue and goodness in the universe while simultaneously regarding them as infallible experts in all matters geopolitical.
As far as I can tell no one is worshiping or masturbating to anything here. Again you exaggerate. People have a problem with a state Senator using Veterans Day and Veterans to score political points. You can’t seem to agree with that point of view without qualifying the statements.
You know what? I am going to “go after” our president any frickin’ time I feel like it.
There is only one thing you are not allowed to say concerning the President. Don’t think we especially those of us who did serve are not going to share our opinions about you when you do it.
I myself thought about doing so at two different points in my life--including during wartime.
Owen put it best in post 18. Try reading it, heck comment on it.
Posted by on November 12, 2008 at 1837 hrsI think Owen’s comment is just fine except I would not go so far as to say that it’s “shameful” and “deserving of condemnation.” The fact that some people find it tacky, I get that. The fact that some people think it’s inappropriate for a day meant as a thank you, I get that. What I don’t get is where people are obligated to condemn it. It’s just not that offensive, and furthermore, an interesting argument in favor of it. (See comment 21. Heck, comment on it!)
Posted by scott on November 12, 2008 at 1845 hrsWhat I don’t get is where people are obligated to condemn it.
Hey Scott,
Posted by on November 12, 2008 at 2150 hrs
Do you know what you call a person, such as yourself, who consistently exaggerates?shut up already if all you have to contribute is smears on people’s patriotism.
How can I smear someones patriotism - if there is none to smear?
And where did I say that Robson is unpatriotic? Talk about honesty....
Posted by on November 13, 2008 at 0930 hrsDo you know what you call a person, such as yourself, who consistently exaggerates?
Owen: “...shameful, tacky, and deserving of condemnation.”
Me: “What I don’t get is where people are obligated to condemn it.”
Where’ the exaggeration?
Still waiting for a cogent response to comment 21.
Posted by scott on November 13, 2008 at 0937 hrsLiar
That is what you are Scott, a liar.
Post 13-
but you guys make it sound like she should be drawn and quartered for treason or something.
1 guy says that she sounds like an America hater you exaggerate that, but that’s not good enough for you. You take it one step further and push your exaggeration upon everyone who has posted until that point.
Post 17-
Get over yourselves and stop with the masturbatory worship of militarism.
No one is masturbating or worshiping anything.
Post 21 -
People or parties who do not fulfill these moral imperatives should be called out loudly and publicly.
I understand your argument but disagree with your summation of the war. Again I think you exaggerate it. In my opinion thanking the troops past and present does not fit your or Robson’s political agenda.
Post 27 -
I myself thought about doing so at two different points in my life--including during wartime.
Again this one is priceless. I’m sure we will a sleep a little more soundly knowing that Scott thought about joining the military. I know a couple of recruiters if you would like names and numbers let me know.
Post 31-
What I don’t get is where people are obligated to condemn it.
What are the consequences if you do not meet you “obligation”, your words? Owen said it deserves condemnation and he is entitled not only to his opinion, but also to express his opinion. You know free speech and all. What forces other than being disagreed with and mocking you are being pressed down on you to fulfill your “obligation”?
Post 34-
Owen: “...shameful, tacky, and deserving of condemnation.”
Another exaggeration. What Owen said was....
But to mar what is supposed to be a simple “thanks” with partisan attacks is shameful, tacky, and deserving of condemnation.
You took what Owen said about Robson’s attack and attributed that Owen attacking you.
You’re a Liar through and through.
Posted by on November 13, 2008 at 1252 hrsYou’re a Liar through and through.
Let me tell you how this is going to end with scott. He’s so deluded that he’ll tell you that you’ve got some personal vendetta against him… he’ll add you to the list of others here who routinely disagree with him, and then he’ll leave this thread and never comment in it again. He does lurk though, and take notes, but he won’t come back in. Probably, he’ll respond one more time to you, and then take his leave.
That’s what he does. He trolls this conservative leaning blog and runs and dodges while he does it.
Posted by on November 13, 2008 at 1302 hrsI’m to be called a liar because I tongue-in-cheek used the expression “drawn and quartered” when nobody actually said that? Please. If you think my analogies are overstated just say so--and point out where conservative commenters have been more moderate and conciliatory. Don’t sit there and call me a liar.
You took what Owen said about Robson’s attack and attributed that Owen attacking you.
No I did not. It should be absolutely clear what I meant. Owen said her comments should be condemned. I think he’s hyperventilating a little and making mountains out of mole hills. You don’t have to agree, but in what world am I misrepresenting what Owen meant?
Dude, you need to take a few deep breaths and come back when you an argue a point rationally without relying on a lot of angry and overly emotional bullshit.
Posted by scott on November 13, 2008 at 1308 hrsSo you think that he is hyperventilating because he says quite simply the Robson should be condemned for speech on veterans day.
So we are clear… He said ‘condemned’ not Owen or anyone else said ‘hung from the rafters’, not ‘kicked out of office’, not ‘imprisoned’, not ‘have bamboo shoots stuffed under her nails’.... and you think that ‘condemned’ is hyperventilating???
So once again I ask you - what is the difference between what Robson said/did ON VETERANS DAY and Paul Ryan hypothetically proposing strip mining SW Wisconsin for the coal on Earth Day or some white supremacist giving a speech about the benefits of the KKK on MLK day.
Oh yeah your response.... (#21)
Still waiting for an ‘honest’ response… if you are capable of honesty… Posted by on November 13, 2008 at 1315 hrsBullshit
Again with the BS narrative about “how scott is.” Yet none of you can come up with any examples to supposedly demonstrate this persistent patter of behavior.
I’m not the one who turned this discussion personal. Let me tell you how it ends. You accuse me of debating unfairly and attack me personally. I tell you to piss off. The end.
Posted by scott on November 13, 2008 at 1317 hrsyou think that ‘condemned’ is hyperventilating???
Yes there is hyperventilation going on. Especially when other commenters proceeded even angrier statements.
what is the difference between what Robson said...
I called it bullshit because that’s what your comparison is. Strip mining may or may not be a good thing, but no rational person could make the case that it’s in keeping with a day dedicated to preserving the natural environment. It’s the exact opposite of that. So what about Robeson? I know you think criticizing the president on Veteran’s day is the exact opposite of honoring military veterans, but I have already outlined a perfectly logical argument about how such criticism can be seen as a fine way to honor our veterans. You may not agree with it, but it is a perfectly valid point of view that other reasonable people can and do have.
Posted by scott on November 13, 2008 at 1324 hrsYet none of you can come up with any examples to supposedly demonstrate this persistent patter of behavior.
see post 35
Posted by on November 13, 2008 at 1325 hrsThanks for showing your ignorance of the military again Scott.
Buddy of mine is a Marine. Of the first things that he learned is to speak no ill will of officers - especially Generals and Commander in Chiefs - whether you like it or not - Bush is the C-in-C. You do not go infront of a group of veterans on veterans day and bash the C-in-C. By doing so you are bashing those veterans. You are bashing one of their brothers.
Tony (My Marine friend) is doing all of his Obama Bashing now… because on Jan 20th - he will never bash Obama again.
Speechwriters write their speeches for the audience.... it is obvious that Robson had no idea who her audience was.
So Yes it is the same thing. But you wouldn’t know that because you aren’t open minded enough to look at it from the Veterans side. Only the side that you want to be the veterans.... Walk a mile in their boots… then try talking smack.
Posted by on November 13, 2008 at 1334 hrsWhat exactly are you holding that up as an example of? Me “unlinking” from the discussion? What?
There’s no reason for you to keep attacking me, and no reason for me to have to defend myself. That’s not what this discussion is about. My entire point can be boiled down pretty simply: the American right, including many who hang out here, are too quickly moved to outrage over criticism of Bush, and often in too much of a goddamned hurry to protect the precious feelings of our military personnel. You don’t agree? Fine. But cut the bullshit and the personal attacks already.
I think I’m going to coin a new internet law: “scott’s law of boots and kittens,” i’ll call it. It goes like this. When scott’s debate tactics and/or patriotism are openly called into question, the discussion has effectively ended as no attempts at reasonableness will be reciprocated once this point has been reached.
Posted by scott on November 13, 2008 at 1337 hrsPresident Bush is the commander-in-chief of the military, not of us. He’s a civilian military leader, a politician. Criticizing him is not only acceptable, but downright necessary, due to the fact that military personnel themselves cannot do so openly.
Posted by scott on November 13, 2008 at 1339 hrsYou just don’t get it do you....
Veterans Day is for Veterans. To the Veterans Robson broke a big rule.
You can criticize Bush all you want… not to veterans on veterans day.... would you like me to slow down a bit so that you can get it…
Posted by on November 13, 2008 at 1343 hrsYou know, I do agree--have done so from the beginning--that many people find it in poor taste to issue those remarks on Veteran’s Day. I myself probably would not do so. At the same time--also my position from the beginning--I don’t think people who find it in bad taste should be getting so worked up about it and calling for it’s condemnation. It’s an overreaction.
Do you need me to repeat any of that for you?
Posted by scott on November 13, 2008 at 1347 hrsSo there is a chance that you would do what she did when she did it.
I myself probably would not do so.
so you definition of “condemning” must be pretty harsh.... I my opinion.... “condemning” is nothing more than publicly saying that she was wrong - not for what she said - but who she said it to on the day that she said it.
Posted by on November 13, 2008 at 1459 hrsWhen you say that something should be condemned, you’re not only expressing your own disapproval, but suggesting that other are obligated to do so as well. I don’t agree with that in this case. For the reasons I have mentioned above.
Yes, there are scenarios I can imagine in which I might feel being that provocative was called for, but generally no. I would not do so.
Posted by scott on November 13, 2008 at 1502 hrsScott are you sure that you are not Russ Feingold’s alter ego?? You sound like a politician.
Would you yes or no - do exactly what Robson did? No ‘probablys’ - Yes or No. YOu have stated several times in this thread that you ‘probably’ wouldn’t do it.... ‘probably’ meaning that there is a chance that you would do it and therefore see it as ok.
You can be ‘provocative’ all you want… but much like ‘tact’ there is a time and a place… Calling for strip mining or oil drilling or coal plants on Earth day - while ‘provocative’ is not the time for it and is therefore wrong. The KKK having a rally on Dr. King’s b-day - while within their free speech rights… it is wrong.
Posted by on November 13, 2008 at 1510 hrsActually, Clint, in the real world I’m not compelled to give you a black and white answer. I think I’ve made it perfectly clear--several times--exactly what I think about doing what she did.
Posted by scott on November 13, 2008 at 1513 hrsYes Scott - you have made it perfectly clear that you feel what she did is ok and defensible - and that you too would do it....
It really is a black and white issue.... but you are so invested that you can’t admit to your own mistakes....
You have also acknowledged that “Condemnation” is the worst possible punishment in the world - even worse than water boarding… maybe we can use that in Guantanamo… - I can see it know… “You terrorists are all now condemned” - “Oh no not that, we will talk” - and then the ALCU jumps in and stops the horrible torture known as “condemnation”
Posted by on November 13, 2008 at 1518 hrsI will even bet that Keith Oberman has done a skit on the horrors of condemnation....
Posted by on November 13, 2008 at 1519 hrs
Ol' Army
