Republicans Consider Hike in Per Diem
MADISON, WI (WTAQ) - Wisconsin Assembly Republicans are considering an increase in their expense reimbursements for their food and lodging when they work in Madison.
Majority Leader Scott Suder of Abbotsford says it’s a logical thing to do, because hotel prices have gone up.
The Assembly’s incoming speaker, Racine County Republican Robin Vos, says he’s open to raising the per-diem reimbursements, since they have not gone up in about a decade. But Vos said the Assembly would have to cut other spending elsewhere, so taxpayers are not shelling out extra.
Right now, lawmakers in both houses get $88 a day to cover their meals and hotels when in Madison. Dane County lawmakers get half that much, because they live in or near the Capital City.
At a time when the economy is still hurting, too many people are out of work, taxes are still too high, and we just went through this massive effort to have government employees contribute more for their benefits, it is inexcusable for politicians to jack up their own pay.
Um, get a cot and stay in the Capitol like the protesters did. Nothing wrong with a cot or an air mattress in the office.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 04, 2012 at 1938 hrs
Ladies and gentlemen, your 2013-14 Assembly Republican leadership. Let’s start by raising per diems and figuring out how to rebuild the caucuses. Jobs, jobs, jobs later.
Posted by Recess Supervisor on December 04, 2012 at 2106 hrs
Recess,
You are right. Republicans are being dumb on this.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 04, 2012 at 2121 hrs
This must be the State version of ‘Gone Native’. Bad move..
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 04, 2012 at 2147 hrs
Agree. GOP is stupid and tone deaf here.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 04, 2012 at 2238 hrs
Belling nailed this on his show today. The current per diem is abused, as it is, and now these clowns want to raise it.
Can we get to the mining bill and get some jobs coming into the state? Instead of thinking of more govt waste?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 05, 2012 at 0019 hrs
The Assembly and Senate should be part time positions
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 05, 2012 at 0613 hrs
The Assembly and Senate should be part time positions
Pat, they are. Trick is to convince the WI legislators that they don’t live in Washington D.C. (yet).
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 05, 2012 at 0726 hrs
Pat, they are. Trick is to convince the WI legislators that they don’t live in Washington D.C. (yet).
And our congressmen and senators in D.C. should be part time too. But that’s another topic.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 05, 2012 at 0753 hrs
7.The Assembly and Senate should be part time positions
A better way to say this might be to say that they need to hold down another real job and not just live in the world of an elected leader.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 05, 2012 at 0803 hrs
I agree. One downside of a part-time legislature is that it puts a lot more power into the hands of permanent staffers. Also, there aren’t that many professions that lend themselves to accomadating a legislative session as we currently do it. But personally, I’d be OK with them meeting in session maybe once a year for 3 or 4 weeks to conduct all of their business. If an issue is not important enough to bubble to the top in a short session, then they probably shouldn’t be doing it anyway. And most professions will let the legislator take a few weeks off even if it’s unpaid.
Having legislators sitting in Madison all the time thinking of ways to be important is a recipe for oodles of crappy legislation.
Posted by Owen on December 05, 2012 at 0822 hrs
We also note that Vos will now occupy a double-office suite more suitable to the tastes of the New Emperor.
Prolly affords some space to Jay Weber so they can spend more time together….
Posted by dad29 on December 05, 2012 at 0836 hrs
Not to throw too much wood on this fire, but our state legislators also get a small “perk” from their accountant. Through an accounting loophole, they get to take a tax deduction for per diems not paid, since this is considered under Wisconsin law to be a reimbursement.
I wonder how much, at around $45K per year salary, the net income of our state legislators actually is?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 05, 2012 at 0848 hrs
Interesting discussion. Do legislators have to submitt receipts to get their per diem? Most employees I know who are subject to a per diem need to submitt receipts and they are only paid for actual expenses.
And what about mileage? I do not get paid to drive from my home to work? Does Senator Grothman get paid to drive from WB to Madison?
Full-time or part-time it makes no difference—WI Legislators are among the top 5 in the country in pay.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 05, 2012 at 0942 hrs
Why is Grothman your example?
Why not ask a better question: if Fleabagger Dave Hanson get mileage?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 05, 2012 at 0954 hrs
Here’s a good resource to consult regarding this issue. Gives lots of background and current facts:
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lrb/pubs/wb/09wb4.pdf
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 05, 2012 at 1112 hrs
To answer the question in #14, legislators don’t submit receipts. Per diem rates are uniform for Dane County ($44) and non-Dane County ($88) legislators. Legislators complete a form every month that indicates what days they were in the Capitol working on legislative business, sign the form, and submit it to the Chief Clerk. If we paid legislators for actual expenses, most of them would be submitting receipts in excess of $88 a day. A lot of them are pretty frugal. You wouldn’t see a giant stack of $40 lunches. But you’ll easily blow the $88 a day on lodging downtown. Some legislators arrange to share nearby apartments in order to keep their costs down.
Sleeping in the office is definitely possible (there are showers in the basement), but I’m not sure whether that arrangement would be smiled upon by Buildings & Grounds. It’s not the Y, after all.
Regarding mileage, legislators can be reimbursed for one round-trip to and from the Capitol each week (provided the trip is made) at a rate that is identical to the rate paid to other state employees who occasionally use personal vehicles to conduct state business. I believe that’s around 51 cents a mile right now. Legislators can also submit in-district expenses for reimbursement on days when per diem is not claimed - for example, driving around the district to attend events or attend listening sessions.
Remember in considering all of this that legislators are employees of the state, not independent contractors - nor would they meet the IRS qualifications for independent contractor status. Accordingly, like other employees, they’re not eligible to deduct expenses that are below 2% of their adjusted gross income. And those expenses are often considerable. It’s not unusual, for instance, for a legislator in northern Wisconsin to put well in excess of 30k miles a year on a personal vehicle while conducting business. If that was a regular job, you’d probably have a similar reimbursement arrangement or a company vehicle.
So while I pick fun of Vos and Suder because this is politically tone deaf, I also appreciate the underlying concern. 2001 Wisconsin Act 16 sets per diem rates at 90 percent of the federal rate in Madison, which at present is $145. However, the Assembly and Senate are still free under the constitution to set their own maximum rates, which is where the $44/88 breakdown comes into play. If they wanted to raise the rates, all they’d have to do is strike the rule.
Oh, and it should also be noted that the old majority leader’s office sucks. It’s way too small for the number of staff allotted to the position. It wasn’t originally intended as an office - it was a coat closet or storage room or something similar. Same goes for the Speaker’s office, where interns often work in a closet/storage room because there’s no other place to put them. So while I thought the idea of building a staircase in the Speaker’s office to 1st floor west was stupid, moving the majority leader out of there is actually an intelligent use of space.
Posted by Recess Supervisor on December 05, 2012 at 1133 hrs
Kevin,
Way to obscure a meaningful discussion with a personal insult of a legislator who, as chance would have it, you hate because of his political views. Glad to see nothing changes when I’m gone
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 05, 2012 at 1136 hrs
VA,
That is an insult?
It’s the common term for the legislators that, willingly, failed to carry out their elected duty and fled.
I’ve been told by my leftist friends that “teabagger” is not an insult.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 05, 2012 at 1157 hrs
Yes, dumb, boneheaded and out of touch.
Maybe it’s time to start thinking outside of the box, and utilizing technologies which businesses do so the legislators are able to telecommute and don’t have to be in Madison as often, thereby reducing their expenses (plus it keeps them in their home districts more, and more in direct contact with their constituents rather than the Madison bubble).
Posted by hsgbdmama on December 05, 2012 at 1348 hrs
Kevin—2 reasons I used Grothman—1, he represents the district that Owen is a part of so he is appropriate and 2, to get a stupid and completely off point reaction out of you as per usual. It worked:)
Recess Supervisor—thanks for the wonderful explination.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 05, 2012 at 1502 hrs
AV,
So when you make point using Grothman=Brilliant?
When I make the same point using a Democrat= it’s stupid and off point?
I see you had an extra helping of double standard for breakfast- this A.M.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 05, 2012 at 1838 hrs
Kevin, I did not say that—I pointed out that I used an appropriate legislator—the one from your district.
You pulled your usual BS and interjected something into the string that was irrelvant just to get a reaction. And “2, to get a stupid and completely off point reaction out of you as per usual. It worked:)”
It was all about you and your stupid, off point comments.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 05, 2012 at 1851 hrs
and Kevin, shut up while you still have some dignity left.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 05, 2012 at 1852 hrs
So Democrat legislators from Green Bay don’t get more mileage, than those from West Bend?
I simply question the way you phrased your point—-you made it sound nefarious.
I figure a fleeing Democrat, purposely wasting gas, going to IL, wouldn’t need any Madison mileage at all. Fleeing Democrat State Senators asking for mileage, (while refusing to do their job), that would really nefarious.
If a Senator, ever, refused to do their job during their term, they should lose their mileage and per diem for the rest of their term.
So you still want to talk about Grothman, a Senator that always does his job, in your example?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 05, 2012 at 2034 hrs
hsgbdmama, most legislators do this already. At $88 a day, hanging out at the Capitol isn’t a financially rewarding endeavor for most leggies. In terms of annual per diem winners, it’s usually leadership and people who live in counties adjacent to Dane, because they get the $88 a day but rarely incur lodging costs since they can just drive home every night.
As far as committee meetings, meeting with lobbyists and other colleagues, etc. a lot of that just needs to be done in person, and it’s honestly much better that way. I’d never endorse anything that would encourage these guys to get to know their colleagues even less than some already do. If that’s the sort of impersonal direction we head, legislative proceedings will look even more like a newspaper’s comment threads than they already do.
Also, to double back to Owen’s comment in #11, one of the real benefits of a full-time legislature is that it allows ordinary joes to serve and support their family by doing so. As someone who lives in a state with a part-time legislature, the biggest problem they have is a lack of professional diversity. The job pays about $5k a year but requires a near full-time commitment for about three months a year. That virtually disqualifies anyone who isn’t retired, self-employed or a small business owner, or otherwise in a position to set their own hours. And truth is, that’s most of us.
Posted by Recess Supervisor on December 05, 2012 at 2040 hrs
Kevin, the more you open your mouth, the more stupid comes out. Please stop.
I made a simple point using the resident State Senator—nothing more, nothing less.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 05, 2012 at 2210 hrs
AV,
Just pointing out that mileage of Democratic State Senators, who will not do their job, from time to time, should be questioned before Grothman’s mileage.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 05, 2012 at 2300 hrs
At $88 a day, hanging out at the Capitol isn’t a financially rewarding endeavor for most leggies. In terms of annual per diem winners, it’s usually leadership and people who live in counties adjacent to Dane, because they get the $88 a day but rarely incur lodging costs since they can just drive home every night.
That’s a good point, and perhaps it’s time to adjust it based on distance (set up zones or whatever), as like you pointed out, it costs far more for legislators from the northern parts of the state far more to commute than it does the ones nearby.
Posted by hsgbdmama on December 06, 2012 at 0656 hrs
Kevin, I used Grothman to “2, to get a stupid and completely off point reaction out of you as per usual. It worked:)”
Keep it up—I need a good laugh. If I had used any Republican, you would have gone on the defensive—brining up IL—childish. Grow up.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 06, 2012 at 1010 hrs
I completely agree, hsgbdmama. Even if it’s just a reallocation of the existing per diem pool, it would make so much more sense to do some kind of sliding scale that would better compensate northern WI leggies and discourage some of these per diem vultures surrounding Dane County who really do sometimes drive in for ten minutes to pick up a folder and say hi to their staff, and then go run some errands before heading home.
Worse is when the legislature is adjourned for the session. Other than study committees, there’s virtually zero work that needs to be done in Madison until inauguration nine months later, and yet you’d be shocked how many of these freeloaders are still in a few times a week. But hey, if you’ve got a meeting down the street to talk about your campaign, why wouldn’t you swing by your office for ten minutes to ring the register? Cha-ching!
Posted by Recess Supervisor on December 06, 2012 at 1518 hrs
A) If those Democratic State Senators weren’t doing their jobs then they didn’t/won’t get re-elected, will they? Besides, breaking a quorum ain’t no different than pulling a filibuster or refusing to schedule a vote…if you don’t want parliamentary procedures to be used then work to change the rules rather than complaining that they are being used.
B) Ain’t no surprise that the GOP Assembly members are pushing for this now. Someone probably noticed that the Governor has been taking over a week off work every month for the past year and he doesn’t get his pay docked or even scolded by the press…they figure that they might as well get some as well while the getting is good & the people don’t care….
Posted by purplepenquin on December 06, 2012 at 1717 hrs
purple—ouch that hurts. I remember reading that the actual numbers on Gov. Walker were that he took 56 personal days this year through October. Any day he works 2 hours on state business he can consider it a work day. That only averages one out of every four weeks off. Not a bad job if you can get it.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 06, 2012 at 1735 hrs
Oh, and it should also be noted that the old majority leader’s office sucks. It’s way too small for the number of staff allotted to the position. It wasn’t originally intended as an office - it was a coat closet or storage room or something similar. Same goes for the Speaker’s office, where interns often work in a closet/storage room because there’s no other place to put them. So while I thought the idea of building a staircase in the Speaker’s office to 1st floor west was stupid, moving the majority leader out of there is actually an intelligent use of space.
Maybe they should have less staff…
So purple, you want him working more? While others complained about all of the Obama adventures, I always figured the less working days, the less damage. Seriously though, I would have to see a comparison to other Governors to judge. Also, how many personal days do you get? Does he have left over ‘vacation’ time from his Milwaukee days? Do they carry over? My wife will get 5 1/2 weeks of vacation this year in addition to 6 or so guaranteed holiday days, or about 34 days. It sure seems like the public sector gets more of any perk than most private businesses, so how many do they get? Does the Governor have no limit? RS?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 07, 2012 at 1009 hrs
By having too low of a per diem you also risk making political service something only people with money can afford. I ran for the Assembly this year and it would have cost me money every day I would travel to Madison. I was willing to make that sacrifice but I’m fortunate.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 07, 2012 at 1709 hrs
Majority Leader Scott Suder of Abbotsford says it’s a logical thing to do, because hotel prices have gone up.
Posted by Bathrooms Liverpool on December 27, 2012 at 0534 hrs
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