Racism in Wisconsin

As we discuss the racist rant on Folkbum’s site, I reflect on my experience with racism…

I’m a child of Texans, but I spent my adolescence in Riyadh.  As a white Christian in an Arab Muslim nation, I generally felt accepted as long as we kept to our own kind, so to speak.  There were certainly places for foreigners and places where we didn’t belong.  But generally, we spent a lot of time in the homes of Muslim Arab families playing with other kids and I never felt unwelcome.  My deep impression is of welcoming, gracious people, but then again, I was always conscious that I was the visitor in their culture. 

In Texas from age 12-26 or so, it was fairly racially integrated.  Horribly racist jokes and nicknames abounded - from all sides - but people of all races were just a part of everyday life.  Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, etc. were my friends, bosses, employees, colleagues, customers, acquaintances, etc.  I admit that the language could be rough from time to time to those of a more sensitive ear, but most people of all races I knew in Texas identified themselves first as Texans, second as Americans, and somewhere down the line as their particular race. 

Since moving to Wisconsin, I think it’s the most racially segregated and stunted area in which I’ve lived since Riyadh.  People are geographically and culturally segregated by race to an alarming extent.  It’s disturbing.  I understand that it’s much worse in other places, but it’s certainly not great here. 

I know… I’m a white guy, so I’m not allowed to opine on these things… but it’s my observation…

1. Your observation is not unique.  Wisconsin is the most segregated place I have lived or worked.  That especially includes Madison and Milwaukee.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 20, 2010 at 1758 hrs




2. I totally agree.  I grew up in Wisconsin, but have lived several other places throughout my adulthood.  I have never lived in a place where I was surrounded by more people who look exactly the same, as I did in Wisconsin.  It’s sad.  Even when Wisconsinites go on vacation they almost never choose anything other than Florida (Orlando), Vegas, or the bubble of various Caribbean resorts.  There is a severe aversion among people in that state to being exposed to different looking people and cultures.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 20, 2010 at 1817 hrs




3. “Even when Wisconsinites go on vacation they almost never choose anything other than Florida (Orlando), Vegas, or the bubble of various Caribbean resorts.”

   Wait, what?  This is just weird.  I mean, generalize much?  This is just so no true of me or of any of my social group.  By the way, that social group includes 2 black guys, 1 black girl, 1 half-japanese-half-Irish girl, a Puerto Rican guy, a 1st generation German, a Mexican body builder, a Jew (although he’s basically athiest like most of the rest of us) and like 5 white people.  Ages range from mid 20s to late 30s.  We all dress and act similarly though.  We just don’t really give a shit about race.  Although I know what the statistics say, Milwaukee, or Wisconsin, has never seemed that segregated to me.  My law school class at Madison was pretty ethnically diverse too.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 20, 2010 at 1859 hrs




4. Um, can we please not put all Wisconsinites in this bubble? Thanks.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 20, 2010 at 1915 hrs




5. Well Owen you can always sell your place up there and move into Milwaukee.  You can get a large house if you want.  However, your lot size won’t be as big.  But hey, but you can get along with a walk behind mower.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 20, 2010 at 2004 hrs




6. Exactly JIJAWM… a generalization.  Of course there are anecdotal exceptions.  But, I lived in that state (in MKE county) for 29 of my 39.5 years of life.  Races are very clustered in the state, and even in Milwaukee.  In my travels and various other places of residence I have found a much more balanced spread of racial groups across jobs, industries, neighborhoods and groups of friends than in Milwaukee.

   The vacation thing is worthy of some scientific polling.  But I’m certain my observation would be borne out: A random sample of adults from Milwaukee will report fewer diverse vacation destinations than the same cross section of adults from other large metro areas.

   That, combined with the general lack of racial integration in the area, I feel contributes to a culture of isolationism and self-delusion.  It spreads through depressing workplace environments, innovation (or lack thereof), low salaries, hyper-sensitive political views, women who think they’re God’s personal gift (when they’re far from it)... the list goes on.  Not until I left and had a chance to compare, did I see how much the isolationism & segregation effects so many facets of life there.

   I’m not bashing the state.  Wisconsin is a nice place and has many fine attributes.  I would rank Milwaukee and Madison in pretty much right in the middle of metropolitan areas to live in the country.  You could do far worse or far better.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 20, 2010 at 2044 hrs




7. “I know… I’m a white guy, so I’m not allowed to opine on these things… but it’s my observation… “

   That right there is a worthless comment that reeks of racism.  Oh, woe is you.  Jeeezus.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 20, 2010 at 2121 hrs




8. It’s obvious nobody here has lived in Boston or much of the Northeast. If you think Wisconsin’s bad, it’s much worse out there.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 21, 2010 at 0043 hrs




9. David - I think your general points are interesting, but the stuff about vacation sites is just a little…well nuts. Let’s see…Florida, Vegas and the Caribbean. I’ll take warm vacation locations for $100 Alex. Throw in Yellowstone and you’ve hit a big chunk of the top ten vacation destinations most people would list.

   And actually the biggie you missed - remember back when they were listing the Swine flu cases by state daily and Wisconsin was always disproportionally much higher than most other states. It was because Wisconsinites vacation in Mexico much more than surrounding states.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 21, 2010 at 0131 hrs




10. Owen, your point is very accurate, and a subject that I wrote about during my undergrad work. Wisconsin is very heavily influenced by its German/Luxembourg, Polish, and Eastern European roots. Face it, many of the families who settled Wisconsin came from places where there was only one ethnicity, and largely only one or two religions.

    Just like so many Wisconsinites absolutely refuse to tip a waiter/waitress more than 10% because of the frugal nature of their forefathers, many around here are still unwilling to accept the idea that there should be anyone surrounding them but white lutherans/catholics….

    I am generalizing, of course, I realize that there are MANY people in this state who could care less about race/creed/religion, and I know there are people of German ancestry who are good tippers… So don’t jump down my throat.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 21, 2010 at 0752 hrs




11. It’s sad.  Even when Wisconsinites go on vacation they almost never choose anything other than Florida (Orlando), Vegas, or the bubble of various Caribbean resorts.

    Dunno about that: The Dells were real crowded last weekend and not everyone came from out of state.

    About Owen’s point: I’ve lived in Oklahoma, Texas, North Carolina, Japan ... Wisconsin is weird about the race thing.  When my MIL came to visit you would have thought people had never seen a Korean before. 

    Sure never got that kinda eye-popping neck-turning eye stare in Texas.

    Posted by Brian Dunbar on July 21, 2010 at 1200 hrs




12. Oh come on…

    This post is just so weird.  Are you guys serious?

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 21, 2010 at 1622 hrs




13. I can’t believe how racist Madison is, especially considering how they cling to this self-appointed liberal label here (not that I believe that these red team/blue team labels really mean anything).  I’ve never heard so many people say “I’m not racist but…” and then follow with the most absurdly racist things imaginable.  Like putting a disclaimer on it somehow sanitizes the comment.  It’s just because the state is so overwhelmingly white, and always has been, so preconceived notions and media representations are all most people have to base their feelings on. But it is pretty strange for somebody who grew up where race wasn’t such a big deal, at least as between normal residents on the street.

    But I also think there’s a tendency for people in these parts to define themselves in the most favorable terms possible, whether or not there’s any realistic basis for that assessment, and then freak out if they’re challenged on it.  That’s why the racists won’t cop to being racist.  They don’t wanna be called racist!  They wanna be called straight shooting, anti-PC freedom fighter, and no one is going to tell any different!  Just a luxury of a more easy going, polite (to a fault sometimes) regional culture, I guess.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 23, 2010 at 1430 hrs




14. Being in the Navy gives me an opportunity to see many places and many things. I have lived in a couple places in my 42 years on this good earth. I was shocked when I went to New Orleans for a new duty station and recieved the following instructions from a Black Senior Chief. 1) being white and in the Navy means that I was not allowed to leave the base in a group of less than 4. Navy is targeted out on town and many deaths occur. 2) I was not allowed to leave the base with a black woman unless I was in a group where I was the only white male. Deaths occur on the town where mixed couples (white male and black female) are seen together. Blacks down there apparently do not take kindly to that sort of mixing. While I agree that to some extent, WI is a highly segregated state, much of that is self imposed. In my community we have white family farms, black family farms, hmong family farms, and hispanic family farms and so on. It is only when the crap from milwaukee tried to introduce the lack of work ethic, desire for low income or free stuff, and garbage in the school and town did we all have issues. Culture is something that can be independant of race. It can be a lifestyle, work ethic, religion, and community bond that supercedes race. I do find it interesting how more and more people gather in the cities and turn things upside down. Gun violence in the cities means that guns are bad even though most outside the cities have weaponry of some sort and do not have that issue. Poverty in the cities breeds dependence on govt while that same poverty in the outlying parts of the state fosters community growth. Disaster in the city is cataclysmic that fosters violence and brings out the worst in humanity while in communities outstate it brings neighborly help, community growth, and a togetherness…Is it racial? I don’t think so. The Hmong down the road from me got washed out in this last set of storms and so did I. We are all working together to get the fields back in order and repair roads. In the fall, if they need help bringing something in they will get it because they are neighbors…I can name every member of their family because we see each other across the tree line. Their kids come by to pick raspberries from my patch and Mom makes a pie thingy to die for out of them when I am gone every july. We share, live, work, and mourn together because we are in this together. Can you city folk say the same thing about all your neighbors? Do you even know all your neighbors?

    Posted by fishaddict on July 26, 2010 at 1146 hrs