Pool May be Upgraded Instead of Closed
Although the pool is in very good condition considering it is in excess of 30 years old, Ross said, many of the technologies in use for lighting and heating are out-dated and not as energy efficient as those presently available.
“We looked at energy efficient projects that would enhance the operating costs,” Ross said. “ We’ve secured $40,000 worth of grants already and we are waiting to pull the trigger.”
The total cost of the pool projects, which include the installation of solar panels to supplement gas water heating, lighting upgrades to more efficient fluorescent fixtures and the replacement of the air handling unit, is estimated at about $300,000.
The district would save about $13,000 a year in the cost of heating the pool, Ross said, bringing the total cost of annual operation to $72,000.
[...]
Closing the pool was one of several reductions proposed last fall when administrators learned state aid would be $2 million less than anticipated. The trend is expected to continue.
“If the board decides to move forward, we will be removing (the pool) from the future reductions list,” Herdrich said.
By any stretch of the imagination, a pool is a “nice to have,” particularly in a town with two YMCAs and the Regner pond. And yet even now they are considering sinking another $260,000 into upgrading the pool and spending $72,000 per year on it for every year thereafter.
Tell you what… when the district administration starts acting like there’s a funding crisis, then I’ll start believing them. As long as they keep throwing stuff like this on the agenda, I’m lead to believe that they are overfunded.
I for one am thrilled that they are looking at sinking money into the pool! I don’t use the high school pool, but I do know that the YMCA pool is a busy place and would never be able to handle the all the swim team time needed to practice. My kids use the high school baseball fields and football fields…can you imagine the outcry if we decided not to do the maintainance/upkeep improvements on that area? Why should our swimming pool be any different?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 17, 2010 at 0957 hrs
What the article does not state is that much of the money for the project is being raised through private donations. the district pool is the only public pool available year round. there may be two Y’s but one does not have a pool and the other one is very busy and not adequate for competition.
Samantha is dead on in her comments.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 17, 2010 at 1008 hrs
A very large difference between maintaining a field and maintaining a pool.
If there was that much demand for a pool - the other Y would build one.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 17, 2010 at 1025 hrs
While attending my son’s baseball games I have seen some of the baseball fields in other districts. I can tell you that we are very spoiled in West Bend. We have far better fields than other districts have. I’ve heard kids comment that our fields are the best in our conference, if not the entire state.
The kids play their games and have a great time, whether here in West Bend or at another field that is not as nice. Other districts seem to accept the fact that they don’t need the best all the time in everything in order to meet the needs of their students and families.
WHY the outcry for more money? In tough times, let’s learn to make the budget stretch. If the bathroom faucet leaks do we need an entire bathroom remodel?
The administration continues to spend, whether on programming, sports fields, and more. Now they want one high school while keeping two athletic directors (though called by different names). They simply have misplaced priorities. In my opinion, it’s bigger than the “pool” issue.
How much money is spent on “studies” for this or that. It’s all about priorities.
If an outside group raises the needed money for the pool upgrade, so be it. Just don’t ask me for more money.
More scare tactics.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 17, 2010 at 1035 hrs
This is the process we will face as we go further.
Outside groups will try to raise funds and in the case of the pool advocates, they have worked with the district regarding costs, savings and the process in determining if the pool would continue to be used at all
The reason this process is taking place is precisely because we have diminishing funds and huge ongoing needs.
the criticism sounds like Alice in Wonderland. Previous boards were criticized for delaying maintenance,while this board is looking for new private/public coalitions to sustain old resources or add low cost new ones.
Priorities are being addressed- and the carping sounds generic and consistent to just about anything the board does.
we lose students to other districts not because we haven"t lowered our costs enough.We are , in the world of education, a cheap pure Value proposition.
Question should always be raised, but many come from the position that the board is trying to slip one over on us.
Now that you have 2 of your own on the board, call them.
And if they support what you object to- will you please post that on this blog?Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 17, 2010 at 1054 hrs
I’ll say again, a pool is a “nice to heave.” Can we get some use out of it? Sure. Is is a nice feature? Yeah. But I say again, it’s a “nice to have.”
Close it. Don’t spend another dime on it. Put the money into the critical programming, class size, building space, and all of the other things that are threatened.
As for private money being raised, Kris, the story did mention it. $40k in grant money teed up for a $300,000 project - not to mention the $72k per year in operating the pool. If you can find private money for the additional $260k to renovate it and the operating expenses, then by all means. Go for it. I’d make sure you get the cash in hand first, though. And, I would mention, that pool occupies a lot of space that could be used for other purposes *cough* to alleviate overcrowding.
If the board can’t say “no” to this, then I grant no quarter when they ask for more money. They will have shown that they have plenty of money. Just bad priorities.
Posted by Owen on July 17, 2010 at 1129 hrs
The $40,000 is grant money. There was mention of money being raised and run through the foundation. That is the money that will be raised privately.
I will say that it is easy to say get rid of the pool if you do not use the pool on a regular basis. The pool gets a huge amount of use by the Phy ed classes, swim teams, dolphins program and I believe the park and rec dept. There are many others as well. So, this affects many people not just the district.
Marks point in #5 is a good analysis of the situation. The district is short of revenue and needs to find ways to get that money. In this case it is private contributions by parents of swim club members and anyone they can get to support thier cause. It is yet to be seen if the district will have to put money towards this project.
The whole concept of bad priorities is an opinion and not one shared by as many people as you may think.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 17, 2010 at 1426 hrs
So Kris is saying we won’t have enough money from private donations to cover the cost of the pool. (not that I am shocked)
What I’m seeing is that we have another instance of someone who doesn’t care what anyone else thinks. They want a new pool and they are going to make everyone else pay for it.
How typical. I want a bigger house - would you like to pay for that?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 17, 2010 at 1444 hrs
I’d like to echo Mary’s comments. Kids talk about how cheap they think these baseball diamonds and the complex is. There is nowhere else in state(near here at least) that there are that many diamonds that close together and have a complex as big as they have. I don’t think they understand that money does not equal winning. I’ve heard alot of the coaches talk about how these new fields will propel ourselves to winning the next state championships. They’re 5th and 6th graders playing baseball. The bias is terrible in west bend. Kids who aren’t going to East or West get benched and don’t play. They’ll get their minimum 2 innings or however much and get sat. Its terrible that varsity baseball coaches are doing this to these young kids. They’re fairly close to breaking WIAA laws as well, because coaches cannot teach or instruct the kids in a formal setting before entering their teams.
The bias is strongest in baseball, but its present in other sports too, like football. I know that it is extremely hard to change all this, but west bend needs to stop worrying about baseball and swimming and more on academics. It seems some schools can get along perfectly fine without those things and still beat west and east at every sport, and get high academic awards and standings.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 17, 2010 at 1605 hrs
Is swimming still a mandatory class? A district graduation requirement? If kids had a choice and could pick an alternate course/ credit would the usage be that much? We certainly could still give the kids a well balanced education if swimming was removed. Of course the usage is there if they are forced to use it.
What kind of dollars will it cost to turn this space into classrooms? did anyone look at that possibility ? If the savings is 13,000 a year in energy it will take 23 years before these proposed energy changes start to pay for themselves, at that point in time the pool will be over 50 years old . How many of us would install and pay for new windows in are homes if it took us 23 years to start reaping any benefit?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 17, 2010 at 1640 hrs
There was mention of money being raised and run through the foundation. That is the money that will be raised privately.
So in other words, it’s not actually raised. It’s just a few people saying they might send a check if… if… if…
As I said, get the cash up front. Otherwise the taxpayers will be stuck paying for whatever the difference is.
Seriously, if y’all can’t say no to a pool, then you’ve abdicated any right to claim the mantle of fiscal responsibility. Personally, I’d rather keep one more teacher on staff than pay $72k/year to maintain a pool. How about you?
Posted by Owen on July 17, 2010 at 1924 hrs
Let me put this another way… without a firm commitment of private funds for a dollar amount for both the upgrade cost and ongoing operating expenses, then any board member voting in favor of this is obligating the taxpayers to an unknown quantity of spending for the foreseeable future. It’s utterly irresponsible especially given our current financial situation.
Furthermore, a commitment of private funds better be backed up by something tangible. Preferably, it should be cash in the bank already donated. At least a promissory note (although probably unenforceable in a situation like this). If it’s just a bunch of folks sitting around making promises, then it’s not worth considering.
Posted by Owen on July 17, 2010 at 1948 hrs
a Bender…I am trying to follow your arguement…so a varsity coach is heading up a team of 5th and 6th graders…only allowing these young kids to play 2 innings because they are not from West Bend and that is coming close to breaking WIAA rules?? hmmmmmmm…please elaborate and tell me how that relates to the pool discussion…
Owen, I read your blog often…and usually agree with your comments…in this instance, I have not heard that our high school is “overflowing” with kids so why do we need to fill in a pool to create more learning space? Seems a waste of concrete to me…cheaper to keep a pool that’s in place then try to make an “Aquatic Center” in the future don’t you think?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 17, 2010 at 2007 hrs
Samantha,
Two things… first, the district has been saying for years that the population growth of the district will be most acute in the high school since there are a lot of parochial school kids who go to the public high school due to the expense or lack of availability of parochial high schools (no local Catholic High School, but a lot of Catholic elementary schools). If anything, it would be prudent to plan the space now instead of waiting until there are overflowing classrooms.
Second, even without considering what else to do with the space, the cheapest thing is to drain the pool and lock the doors. That’s a helluva a lot less expensive to maintain than spending $300k on it now and $72k per year forevermore.
Posted by Owen on July 17, 2010 at 2127 hrs
We’re on the topic of sports (swimming) Samantha, and someone else mentioned the topic of baseball. Are you not familiar with WIAA rules? I’m merely stating that the high schools should spend less time screwing around with sports when kids can’t understand basic algebra when graduating.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 18, 2010 at 0022 hrs
I’m with Owen on this one - the pool should go.
Posted by Charlie Hillman on July 18, 2010 at 0217 hrs
I believe a bender that WIAA rules pertain to high school. Little League or Warrior/All Star teams (which a 5th or 6th grader would participate in) would be governed by another set of rules. As for not worrying about sports and focusing on education, sorry, it’s been too much a part of my kids lives (andtherefore mine) and I feel kids learn life long lesson when participating in sports.
As for the high school population growing, I don’t recall hearing that arguement at board meetings so I can’t speak to that comment. I would like to note tho, that if I recall correctly from the board meetings that I did attend, the high school population is roughly the same now as it was when they split the schools some 20 years ago…I am not sure where I can go to fact check that…but I would vote to consolidate the 2 libraries (opening up a classroom space) before I’d close the pool.
Has anyone ever seen an itemized list of costs for the pool? 72k is an awful lot of money for upkeep? chemicals for a pool are roughly $100-200 per month? Is that money for a private service to care for the pool?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 18, 2010 at 0711 hrs
I suspect that the $72k includes personnel costs (Maintenance, janitorial services, life guards, safety inspections, etc.) in addition to supplies, electricity, water (gotta keep the thing filled), etc.
Ask any pool owner… it costs a lot in time and money to keep it in clean, operating order.
Posted by Owen on July 18, 2010 at 0811 hrs
WIAA Bylaw, Article II, Section 2, A., 2), indicates “A school may not assemble athletes or
prospective athletes in physical education classes, or some other manner, for purposes of teaching
fundamentals, techniques, plays, etc., except during the designated school season of a sport.” This
includes the summer period, meaning that schools cannot conduct a summer school class, or
community education program, on basketball fundamentals, for their basketball players. It doesn’t
matter if the class is open to all students. The one exception is in the summertime during the Board
of Control approved unrestricted contact period between the end of school and July 31 (5 days in all
WIAA sports).
———
When one of the varsity coach coaches a little league team and then more than a few kids(from his team) make his team come High school, its a pretty fine line.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 18, 2010 at 0918 hrs
Bill,
I am not saying we don’t have enough money from private donations. What I said was it remains to be seen if the distirct will have to contribute money. Nothing more, nothing less.
Owen,
The process is ongoing for the raising of money. My understanding is that there has been money raised. Honestly, I do not know how much because I have not heard a report on that subject. I can tell you interest has not lessened on the part of this group, because a member of it has been at every board meeting for the last several months.
Finally, for those of you who feel that the pool should be closed. It is very easy for you to say that if you do not have kids who use the facility. Or, if you personally do not use the pool. You lose nothing. No sacrifice for you. this would be an extension of the NIMBY thought process that seems to a large part of our society right now. Let others sacrifice so that I don’t have to.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 18, 2010 at 0943 hrs
The pool defenders are hilarious. My high school didn’t have a pool… and guess what, if it did, I would never have taken a swim class.
The notion that a high school should have a pool is abject nonsense.
But, since so many are so passionate about saving it…. I’d propose this.
Per use fees.
Figure out how much you’d need to charge to raise the money by the time the renovation needs to be done. For instance, $5 per use, per swimmer.
Don’t like that, think it’s “unfair”? Too bad, your crocodile tears are a sad reflection of the reality this country has to face. WE DON’T HAVE THE MONEY FOR ALL THIS CRAP.
I don’t live in West Bend, and I have to say, that with the way things are going out there, I am glad. A community with some of the highest unemployment numbers in the state, that has an out of control school board that REFUSES to face the realities of modern America. A school referendum for near record numbers, every year, an argument about saving a stupid high school pool, for $300k, and people actually justifying it because it would be cheaper to fix the existing pool than to build an “aquatic center” in the future…. Seriously…
My town board is messed up, but you guys have got some serious issues.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 18, 2010 at 1000 hrs
Finally, for those of you who feel that the pool should be closed. It is very easy for you to say that if you do not have kids who use the facility. Or, if you personally do not use the pool. You lose nothing. No sacrifice for you. this would be an extension of the NIMBY thought process that seems to a large part of our society right now. Let others sacrifice so that I don’t have to.
And yet you expect them to sacrifice (through tax dollars) if the pool stays open. Hypocrite anyone?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 18, 2010 at 1004 hrs
Little League and Warrior/All Star teams are not school supported functions so I don’t think WIAA rules apply…
I didn’t have a pool either at my high school growing up and I don’t use the high school one now…a per use fee may already be in place…does anyone know? As a community offering multi sport options is a draw to moving here…
As for our high school, we still meet or exceed WKCE compared to WI averages so our high school is focusing on academics and has been very successful based on state testing…
djmamayek, I actually do live in West Bend. I was not born and raised here and as an outsider I see areas to improve…but I try to temper my wants and needs and allow for other peoples ideas and passions. Getting rid of extras is easy…putting them back in place when/if the economy turns around is so much more difficult.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 18, 2010 at 1107 hrs
It is very easy for you to say that if you do not have kids who use the facility. Or, if you personally do not use the pool. You lose nothing. No sacrifice for you.
And it’s very easy to spend other people’s money on facilities to appease a tiny minority of the community. You lose nothing. No sacrifice to you.
So let me get this straight… I’m being selfish if I don’t want to spend money on something I don’t use, but you wanting to take my money from me and spend it on something that will be of no use to me is not selfish>
You need to reevaluate your perspective, Kris.
Posted by Owen on July 18, 2010 at 1150 hrs
Owen, my perspective is for the entire community. the 7000 kids in the district and how we as a community shape the future. By offering as many opportunities to our community and students we create a brighter and broader future for all of them.
You choose to send your kids to private schools and not use the public option. Fine, but stop trying to take away from others because you made the choice that you made. Again, you are not making any sacrifice by having the pool close down. I am making a sacrifice by paying the tax dollars so that we have more opportunities for more people. I will say that I am glad to do it because I firmly believe that it builds community. Communities are important and honestly while I agree that you can’t tax your way to prosperity you also cannot cut your way there either. if we do nothing but cut everything we will eventually find that we have nothing but a shell of what we want.
If you try to make the argument that when times get better we will get more money to replace all that is gone you are either naive or don’t understand the state funding formula.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 18, 2010 at 1244 hrs
So, Kris… am I to understand that the pool is more important than class size or keeping more teachers on staff? Am I to assume that if we can afford this spending on a pool that these other priorities are already funded and secure? They won’t be held up as possible cuts come budget time?
Posted by Owen on July 18, 2010 at 1258 hrs
I never said any of those things. The school funding picture will change many times over the next 6-12 months. there is no way to say what will definately happen in the future.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 18, 2010 at 1352 hrs
Then don’t come to me saying there isn’t enough money for teachers or programming if you vote to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a pool.
Posted by Owen on July 18, 2010 at 1357 hrs
So that is a definate. Even if the state gives the district $0 increase in per pupil spending? Even if the revenue limits continue to increase at 2.5% and inflation causes our costs to increase 4%? Just because we decide to keep a pool operational you will always say no to a referendum or an increase in the local portion of the property tax? You will say no to whatever we ask of the community over this one issue? Really?
By the way, no one said we were going to spend hundreds of thousands. We will have to see how much is raised privately.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 18, 2010 at 1600 hrs
Yes. Because despite all of the inequities of the funding formula (of which there are many), if you choose to spend $71k on a pool instead of on programming or other priorities, then it tells me that you have plenty of money to spend.
Again, when you start acting like there is a funding crisis, so will I.
By the way, no one said we were going to spend hundreds of thousands. We will have to see how much is raised privately.
And again, unless the money is in the bank, any vote for maintaining the pool is a vote to obligate the taxpayers to an unknown sum - up to and including the full cost of the pool.
BTW, to your earlier comment about my kids being in private school… they don’t have a pool at school. How selfish of me… I know.
Posted by Owen on July 18, 2010 at 1610 hrs
Little League and Warrior/All Star teams are not school supported functions so I don’t think WIAA rules apply…
They do when one of the varsity coaches coaches the team. When you become an official coach, you become a school representative.
My high school didn’t have a pool either (we rented time out at a local pool), and yet somehow we managed to compete at an incredibly higher level, taking placings at state almost every year. West Bend needs to wake up and figure out that academics are far more important than sports ever will be. Once you have academics figured out and secured the money, you can focus on the wanted items.
What west bend is going through is being echoed throughout the entire country. People need to learn what they NEED and not what they WANT.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 18, 2010 at 1616 hrs
And again, unless the money is in the bank, any vote for maintaining the pool is a vote to obligate the taxpayers to an unknown sum - up to and including the full cost of the pool.
I don’t disagree.
You will note that throughout this entire conversation I have not said that I am in favor or against the pool upgrades. The facilities committee, of which Randy is a member, will bring forth a recommendation and we will decide at that point.
Bender,
You better check with the WIAA, because if the coach is not doing work for the district under contract he/she is acting as a private citizen not a rep of the school. The kids you are talking about are not HS students and that is another reason WIAA rules would not apply. In addition, any person that wants to join that league can it is not limited to only WB kids. The All Star team is selected in a manner that I am not familiar with so I can’t comment on them, but the regular league is open to all who want to play. Now are there people in WB with an agenda around baseball? Yes. Are they all HS coaches? No. Some are parents, some are just people that want to see another state championship in baseball. I am not excusing bad behavior, but you accusations are pretty serious and you had better be 100% correct before you do any more than talk about it here.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 18, 2010 at 1650 hrs
I’m not formally accusing any coach of anything. I’m simply saying that its happening and people should be careful. Note that the term prospective is included in the ruling. That includes kids who want to play HS baseball in the future. Not just high schoolers.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 18, 2010 at 1717 hrs
No wonder WEAC dug there heels in they figured out a long time ago there is no fiscal crisis. Last year the board told the public the lack of funding was unexpected and they had no time to make cuts or properly budget. This year we do know there will be a shortfall how much is the question but we will be short.
How dare you people call yourselves the board of education, its a sad day when a pool or sports come before actual education.
If one teacher or support staff is terminated due to lack of funds and the pool remains open it will be evident education is not your priority.Now its July and fall is coming on fast, instead of making the hard choices and cuts we are finding more ways to spend even more money we dont have. If this is your idea of making tough cuts dont run to the public this fall with your hands open pleading for more cash.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 18, 2010 at 1917 hrs
What Owen said:
“Then don’t come to me saying there isn’t enough money for teachers or programming if you vote to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a pool. “
Ditto.
@Kris: No matter how you try to substantiate your reasons for keeping and maintaining a pool, you discredit yourself when you say your persepective is for the community. The community did not WANT a two-part referendum, the community did not WANT to be taxed to the levy max, the community does not WANT to pay for the pool and is still trying to swallow the new costs of the fitness center that will be forthcoming. We should TRUST your ability to know this community? ‘nuff said.
Posted by GAMazy on July 18, 2010 at 2135 hrs
So, Ginny. you have done a comprhansive survey of the community on this issue? Not likely. So, an unfounded claim.
The community wanted at least half of the referendum. Including a current board member that you supported. So, another claim not quite as advertised.
There were very large crowds that came to meetings in favor of levying to the legal limit. So at least some people wanted that.
So we should trust your ability to analyze a situation and give an accurate analysis? ‘nuff said.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 0609 hrs
Fine, but stop trying to take away from others because you made the choice that you made. Again, you are not making any sacrifice by having the pool close down.
Again, Kris… Will Owen be paying for the maintenance of the pool, even though his children receive NO benefit from it’s existence?
Is that not, by DEFINITION a sacrifice? Or are you just like every other progressive, who believes that every dollar inherently belongs to the government?
How is it possible for you to be so hypocritical? You expect, instinctively, for others to sacrifice for the benefit of your children, and admonish the parents of, I’m sure, a large portion of your community for asking you to sacrifice… A POOL... for their benefit.
This is a POOL we are talking about. It is not a necessity, by any stretch of the imagination, which is why most households don’t have one.
Again, the idea that a high school should have a pool is abject nonsense. It adds absolutely NOTHING to the education of the students. NOTHING. I could see, IF, a community were swimming - pun intended - in money and jobs (West Bend certainly IS NOT) having a pool in the high school…. But, in lean times, sacrifices NEED to be made. A pool is certainly a reasonable request in that regard.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 0900 hrs
So, Ginny. you have done a comprhansive survey of the community on this issue? Not likely. So, an unfounded claim.
Typical progressive attack.
Progressive: “Show me the proof.”
Joe Public: “I only know that myself and my neighbors feel the same way about this.”
Progressive: “So you haven’t done a comprehensive survey of the question with unbiased questions, unbiased researchers, a minimum of 2500 respondents, door to door, counted in a static electricity and bombproof underground labratory, with crosstabs?....
Well, then, I guess I win the argument by default.”
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 0904 hrs
Fill that old relic of a pool with dirt and have the agriculture class plant corn . I would rather see teachers keep there positions instead of a cosmetic spit shine on this outdated hole in the ground.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 0913 hrs
“A community group led by Jeff Smale has agreed to raise funds for the portion of the project that is not covered by grants.”
I thought I had read this line in the article.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 0917 hrs
Typical progressive attack.
How is it an “attack” to ask someone to substantiate a claim regarding the will of the majority? If someone objects to a policy position (or supports one) based on a claim of what the majority feel, it is perfectly reasonable (and expected) to ask for verification of said claim.
Get off your high horse, djmamayek
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 1003 hrs
dj,
I am asking that all taxpayers pay for the pool just like all taxpayers ask me to pay for Regner park swimming something I never use and my kids don’t use. I don’t complain about that because I see that the park system in WB helps quality of life in the community and help sell it to potential newcomers to the community. I’m saying that the pool is the same as the parks or any other taxpayer funded quality of life issue.
When you say there is nothing educational about it did you take into consideration that there are students that learn to swim in that pool during Phy Ed class? Did you take into account that park and rec uses it?
I didn’t attack Ginny I merely pointed out that she made statements that implied that the entire community was of one mind on several subject and that is not true. So, stop name calling and dragging the level of discourse down.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 1012 hrs
How is it an “attack” to ask someone to substantiate a claim regarding the will of the majority? If someone objects to a policy position (or supports one) based on a claim of what the majority feel, it is perfectly reasonable (and expected) to ask for verification of said claim.
Get off your high horse, djmamayek
The sleeping dragon awakens!
1.) You made a post without the F word! Wow, great job.
2.) You made a post with a VALID question, of real quality.
3.) You managed to post an attack of my point without name-calling or denigration!First of all, George, let me congratulate you for leaving your troll cave, and joining the adult world of blog posting!
Now, to answer your question.
First off, The attack is in the tone. I do not live in WB, I do not know who Kris Beaver is, or what role she plays in the community, but I am assuming (we both know what that means) that she is a school board member.
Now, assuming that I am right, which I think I am, that Kris is on the school board, a response from a “government official” to a constituent in which she demands “survey-evidence” is an attack… We obviously know that the average constituent does not have the means or the time to put together an unbiased survey of an issue of this sort. Kris KNOWS that, and by using it [the non-existant survey] as the lynchpin upon which she declares victory in the argument she is using a malevolent form of condescension to browbeat her debate opponent into a position of intimidation.
This tactic is consistently used by progressives… Something that I KNOW you are aware of.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 1016 hrs
I didn’t attack Ginny I merely pointed out that she made statements that implied that the entire community was of one mind on several subject and that is not true. So, stop name calling and dragging the level of discourse down.
Calling you a progressive is not “namecalling” per se. It is a political label that applies to people of your disposition.
I am not dragging the level of discourse down, I am making a point that you are attempting to discredit because you have no genuine retort.
Your rationalization of a $300K upfront expenditure with a $70K/year upkeep expenditure as a “place where (what 5 or 10) kids learn to swim” is once again, ABJECT NONSENSE. Do you have any idea how many places a child can learn to swim? There is a nice beach at Pike lake, Random Lake, Lake Michigan, Long Lake, Mauthe Lake, swimming can be undertaken at either of the Cedar lakes, Hidden Lake, Crooked lake, not to mention the HUNDREDS of private pools in West Bend…. I’m sure just about every kid in town either has a pool, or has a friend who has a pool.
Again, don’t try to discredit my PERFECTLY VALID argument with off subject chaff.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 1026 hrs
Again,
Is it not reasonable to suggest that, when your community is suffering from a disproportionate level of unemployment, during what is easily the most severe recession in a quarter century, a pool in a high-school is a luxury which can be sacrificed?
I am just a casual observer on the subject… It just seems logical to me that a swimming pool is a reasonable cut when you consider the circumstances.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 1037 hrs
Dj,
I have a hard time following your logic. You say that the average constitiuent does not have the money for a survey but yet every kid in WB either has a pool or knows someone who does. Where exactly are you going with your three arguments here.
Then you admit to not knowing me but yet you will attest to my disposition based on a few comments on one post of a blog. And yes I believe that you are calling names and dragging down the conversation.
Finally, the swimming pool woud be a very reasonable cut if there had not been a group that has offered to raise the money to make the repairs and upgrades. if there were not grants for some of the cost. If only 5-10 kids per year use the pool, but those are all not correct. As i said Park and Rec uses the pool, WB has two swim teams at the HS, there is a local swim club that uses the pool and there are community members that use it during the summer.
You assume too much about something that you admit to being a casual observer of. In addition to the fact that you assume that because I spell my name with a K I am not 6’1” 240 lbs and the father of two children. You should assume less and learn more facts.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 1111 hrs
Kris
Is your justification for the pool that it will draw more students? Do we have data or surveys to back this up? last I read the student exodus from West Bend was simply location, location, location, throwing cash around in hopes of it solving a tuition decline is not a well thought out plan.The amount of energy dollars saved by purchasing the new equipment dont make much sense to me. If the new equipment payed for itself in 5 or at a stretch 10 years it makes sense, but if you only save 13,000 dollars a year this equipment will be 15- 20 years old before it pays for itself, it will be old and outdated and need repairs before its even paid off.
I suppose you can call it whatever you want in order to obtain a grant , but these numbers are horrible if you compare the cost of the upgrades to the amount of years it must function problem free, if the equipment dies after 18 years you still did not make your initial equipment investment back in energy savings.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 1122 hrs
My logic is simple.
1.) The grants (if they were to materialize) do not cover the ongoing costs of maintaining a swimming pool. It is expensive.
You expect others to sacrifice to your benefit, but scoff at the notion that others would ask you to sacrifice to theirs.
2.) Learning to swim has nothing to do with education. There is no need for a school to have a pool, under any circumstances.
3.) There are HUNDREDS of lakes within driving distance of WB. All of which are places where parents can teach their children to swim.
4.) Please, tell me. What name have I called you? More chaff?
5.) I don’t know you, so assumptions are what I have to operate on, this is human nature.
6.) Yes, there are hundreds of private pools in WB… Really, there are. And, yes, almost every kid in WB likely has access to one or more of them.
7.) I apologize for having assumed you were a woman. I have a cousin named Kristine that goes by Kris. Kris with a K is a common female name, not as common for men… I meant absolutely nothing by it, I was not trying to imply that you were effeminate, because I didn’t know you were a man. Now I do. Thank you for the correction, Sir. I wish you and your family well.
I advocate the closing of the pool. Why? Because it is an unnecessary expenditure by an institution which is supposed to be dedicated to the education of children. $70K/yr is a teacher, and I can assure you that one good teacher will have a greater effect on the education of West Bend’s children than a POOL.Does this mean that I hate pools? No, I have one in my back yard. Pools are great. Does this mean that I think kids should not learn to swim? No, swimming is a pastime that I enjoy, and having been a lifeguard am trained to do quite well. I love swimming, I love pools. I also think that a community as hard hit as WB by this recession has the right to question whether or not a high school pool is something that is truly necessary, or justifiable.
I have no skin in the game, however. I am just a commentator on a blog… You are the one with the power on the actual matter.
You might wonder why, then, am I so interested in this matter? Well, because all politics is local.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 1135 hrs
{Comment removed by administrator. It was not posted by Kris.}
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 1137 hrs
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Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 1142 hrs
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Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 1143 hrs
Kris,
Just curious, do you know what the $72k is? Does it include insurance or something? Seems really high.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 1145 hrs
Owen, please feel free to remove my last two comments as well. They were reactions to that last comment, which clearly was not made by Kris.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 1147 hrs
Wendy,
Not off the top of my head. that really would be a better question for Randy as he is on the facilities committee.
Owen,
Thank you for removing comments that were not mine. Didn’t get to read them hope, no one was too offended by some loser to afraid to sign his/her own name.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 1357 hrs
Crusher,
The idea is that most of the money for the repairs and upgrades will be donated privately. Yes, we assume that the district will need to cover the cost of utilities, chemicals and so on. i am under no assumption that this will bring in bunches of new students. I consider this a quality of life issue. Go back to my previous comments to see my view on that.
Dj,
When have I scoffed at the idea of others sacrifice? I thought I was very clear. I consider this one of many quality of life issues that can help make the WB community more appealing to newcomers. I said that I don’t complain that I am asked to pay for Regner Park that my family never uses. I also rarely use any of the parks in WB but gladly pay my taxes every year so that I have access to them when and if I want.
One thing that I will say to you is that not all students come to school with the same skills and opportunities. Public education has been, over the last couple hundred years, a place where anyone can get an education and learn those skills that they cannot get at home or from parents. Your kids are lucky that they have a parent that can teach them to swim. If my wife had not had access to a pool she would not have learned because her parents could not swim. So, while you have a pool and are able to teach your kids not all parents can. That is one small aspect of the use of our pool in WBHS there are more.
Finally, I believe you called me a progressive. it was used in a tone that frankly led me to believe that it was name calling. It was probably the fact the you put it in a little dialogue style and sterotyoped. If I have a label it is Libertarian.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 1415 hrs
Seriously, do you think that a school pool comes before the cost of property taxes on the list of “newcomers” priorities…. Get Real.
Progressive is the proper moniker for your world view.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 1440 hrs
Seriously, do you think that a school pool comes before the cost of property taxes on the list of “newcomers” priorities…. Get Real.
Progressive is the proper moniker for your world view.
Troll
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 1448 hrs
newcomer’s wife: Oooh, this community has a school pool, I like that….
School board member: Yeah, we have a pool, and we raise the property taxes every year, and push for $100 million referenda in a community of 30,000.
newcomer: Jeez, wife… I’m not sure we can afford to live in such a ritzy community. Lets buy that similarly priced home in Mequon where life is quieter and property taxes are lower.
Newcomer’s wife: Ok, husband, I like Mequon too… They also have a pool, but double the population, and half the unemployment to support it!
Seriously….Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 1453 hrs
Troll
Really? What point of mine has been without basis, and NOT-unabashedly honest?
Where have I made something up in order to create controversy…. Or, where have I called someone a name in order to start a pissing match?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 1456 hrs
Really? What point of mine has been without basis, and NOT-unabashedly honest?
Where have I made something up in order to create controversy…. Or, where have I called someone a name in order to start a pissing match?
Troll
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 1533 hrs
Well then we win on both counts because our mill rate is the lowest of all the surrounding districts.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 1636 hrs
There you go. Busting out another classic progressive tactic.
“Our taxes are lower than the surrounding communities, surely we can afford to raise them to support this, that or the other thing.”
It’s a pool…....
Really, the kids will find another place to swim. Really…
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 1702 hrs
There you go. Busting out another classic progressive tactic.
Troll
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 2014 hrs
Dj,
No we will not be raising taxes to pay for the pool for two reasons. One, the money for operations will come from operating budget. Two, we are moving forward with the project on the condition that all of the needed money will come from donations. The district has secured $40,000 in grants and the remaining money will come from donors. the project will not start until the money is in hand. there are three projects and they are stand alone. So, they can each be done exclusive of the others.
For the information of this audience. App. 1200 people use the pool through the parks and rec department every year. Every Sophomore and Freshman has a swimming portion to their Phy ed class. It is used to train life guards for the city. the county dive team uses it for training. There are additional people that use it but there is so much usage that the district has had to basically stopped open swim. this is more than a nice to have. It is truly and educational part of the communities life.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2010 at 2133 hrs
@58 Apples vs. oranges
Mequon vs. West Bend 2009
8.84 / $7.47 State av. $9.15 (2 vs. 1) School Districts
3.057 / 8.535 City / town
1.86 / NA Sewer District Utility
1.699 / 2.986 Ozaukee/Wash Cty
1.933 / 1.49 MATC/MPTC
0.17 / 0.18 State of Wisconsin
17.559 / 20.661 Gross
1.5787 / 1.166 State tax credit
0.9883 / .9295 Assessment ratio
15.9806 / 19.495 Assessed tax ratemoney.cnn.com
2008 Av house price / property taxes / Median family income
West Bend $177,400 / $3,060 / $73,261
Mequon $493,269 / $4,955 / $119,525Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 20, 2010 at 0043 hrs
I wish you good luck, djmamayek, on that “similarly priced home in Mequon.” Stands to reason why taxes are lower.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 20, 2010 at 0052 hrs
There are similarly priced homes in Mequon… Sorry that you don’t understand that it is a relatively economically diverse community. Yes, there are $1M+ houses, but there are also $150,000 houses…. It only stands to reason that when you add up the home values and divide by the number of homes that the highs are going to pull the average up.
Similarly there are homes in the $400K+ range in WB, and there are also homes in the $80K range.
As I said, a similarly priced home in the Mequon/Theinsville district will have lower property taxes.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 21, 2010 at 0843 hrs
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