Huh. Whenever we’ve debated taxpayer funding of Planned Parenthood in the past, they made it sound like it was only a pittance, and yet here they are closing four clinics witout it. I do note, however, that their clinics that do abortions are not being touched. Those must be the real money makers.
Planned Parenthood will be closing four rural Wisconsin locations between April and July because the nonprofit health care organization has lost $1.1 million in state funding, officials announced Monday.
The centers in Beaver Dam, Johnson Creek, Chippewa Falls and Shawano don’t get enough private funding to stay financially viable without the state support, which the Legislature eliminated in the 2011-‘13 state budget.
Gosh, why is it again that women overwhelmingly vote against the Republicans?
Oh yeah, this kind of stuff.
So its the inalienable right to free stuff….abortion, birth control, etc. That is the Democrat strategy? Vote for Democrats, they will give you free stuff.
Sounds like an election felony to me.
Why stop there? I want the inalienable right to 4 carribean vacations a year.
The problem with this issue is that most people reading the story miss what is not said.
The women who access Planned Parenthood for the services mentioned—the preventive services—usually have no other way to pay for these important services. Without Planned Parenthood, they will not get the Pap Smears and other diagnostic tests. Since Gov. Walker will not take Federal funding to expand Medicaid, more women will be without insurance. What most people forget about ObamaCare is that it does not promise universal coverage.
These diagnostic services in the long run save money. When diseases are identified early, it costs less to treat them. When anyone without health insurance accesses healthcare, we all pay for it in higher costs and higher premium costs. People will get healthcare, even if they cannot pay.
I know a young lady who uses Planned Parenthood to access birth control—not for birth control, but to keep ovarian cysts from growing. At a salary of $8.00 per hour and an insurance deductible of $2,500 per year, she just does not have the $80/month for the birth control.
Without Planned Parenthood and inexpensive access to birth control, she would have surgery 3 - 4 times a year—at $10,000 a shot. What is better—her getting cheap birth control or all of us paying for the $40,000 in costs—her premiums in a year do not add up to that, so all people would pay.
I again applaud the Republicans for cutting of the arm to fix a cut on the finger. This simple statement pushes up healthcare costs for all of us. And BTW, neither state or federal money can be used to pay for an abortion. What is next, Gov. Walker stopping Medicaid payments to hospitals, physicians and clinics that provide abortions? That is where the radical right is heading.
Why has it become so wrong to help people in need? Has anyone taken a look at Wisconsin’s economy. Most would rather work than accept handouts, but there aren’t a lot of jobs out there that pay a wage that can support a family and allow for enough to cover medical costs. Yes, THERE ARE SOME WHO ABUSE THE SYSTEM BUT DOES THIS MEAN THAT EVERYONE IN NEED SHOULD BE KICKED TO THE CURB AND THROWN UNDER THE BUS? JESUS summed it up this way; “What you did for the least of them you did for me.”
Oh no Jerry, you properly quoted Jesus—Kevin will be mad!!!!!!!!
Kevin is the ultimate cafeteria christian.
This definition is so Kevin:
Convenient Christians are in that ever so broad group of God-worshipping hypocrites, who at any opportunity without fail break a multitude of commandments, whenever it so happens to aid their life.
These are often the ones found preaching to others on message boards, blogs, or over Facebook, and when rivalled are completely ripped to shreds but still fail to concede. This is a sincere act by them, as they are literally so dumbfoundedly blind to any morsel of rational argument, they can’t help but argue back.
Rdub, AV, Jerry,
2 Corinthians 9:7:
Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
All the Walker administration did was eliminate the compulsion when it comes to this aspect of Planned Parenthood funding.
People are free to give to Planned Parenthood as their heart indicates. This section of funding is no longer compulsion from the populace. However, as a Christian, I find Planned Parenthood to be against God’s law in relation to their abortion camps.
As a Christian, in good conscience, I’d find it to be a sin to give to people/organization that kill unborn children.
I’d rather support the Albrect free clinic. Past gifts that I participated in were cheerful and also helped the “least of these”.
A “cafeteria Christian” is one that is solely concerned with the “least of these” part, but forgets about God’s law and the “cheerful” part of the giving.
Do you want to come to the bible study on the issue? I bet it would end up being a lively discussion.
Gov. Walker’s budget has a tax cut of roughly $200 per taxpayer. For those so determined to commit infanticide, I’m sure Planned Parenthood would take that cut off your hands.
Of course, the phony moral high ground is not so fun with one’s own money.
If men could get pregnant , birth control would be available in N/C
Pez dispensers in every bar,restaurant , and convenience store .
Men still want to control women’s bodies and are quite passionate
When they can’t .
Another voice- well said. Who loses when rural health clinics close - poor
Who worries about those living beings ? Jesus and liberals.
Gee. We pay for Medicaid, which provides Pap smears and STD treatment/diagnosis. There are also a number of ‘free clinics’ around the State (one right here in Oconomowoc) which provide the same.
So tell me again that “there is no alternative” to PP, Purveyor of Death.
Men still want to control women’s bodies and are quite passionate
When they can’t .
So when a man advocates not GIVING away drugs to women, to consume, with tax money… that is “controlling women”?
I thought liberated women of the new milenium would NEVER depend on a man for their drugs…
Or does the new feminism mean that men should be forced to buy women drugs?
If so, I’m very, very fascinated by this.
dad29—Medicaid does not cover everyone. Women who generally us Planned Parenthood have no other options—they are not eligible for Medicaid. Under Gov. Walkers budget, this number will increase. Do any of you who support this truly believe that will all of the opposition and protests and such, that any woman would go to Planned Parenthood if they had another, easy choice?
RDUnn, your definition of Convenient Christians is very relevant to many—Kevin included. He believes in killing adults through the death penalty, and thereby reserves the fifth commandment to unborn babies. He takes Jesus’ command to do it to the least of these, and perverts it the least provided they do not mooch off of the government. You cannot engage him in honest Bible study, because the gospel he follows is a corrupted gospel of prosperity that teaches reward for following God’s word and punishment for not. He is part of the Convenient Christianity of the 21st Century.
I agree with the notion that you cannot be half a Christian. You are following Christs word or you are not. Women should have options, it is their choice to make and it should be safe for them. Nobody promotes abortions as some of you think. In history, women sought these services at any cost and sometimes it cost them their life. That is the part of history we do not want to repeat. When they have the baby that you would force them to do if you had your way, that is where your religion disappears because you couldn’t give a rat’s a$$ about them then. Feel free to attack me if it makes you feel better, my judge is upstairs and is not you.
So 2 Corinthians 9:7 is “dishonest bible study”?
Christianity is more than the act of helping the “least of these”. Good works are about being a cheerful, thankful, expression of the Holy Spirit working through one’s Christian faith.
Christ wants our giving to be thanks and cheerful praise from our heart. No where in that equation does that require a tax authority, or an abortion camp.
How does one follow Christ’s command on cheerful giving by the compulsed drudgery of the tax code? Especially when it funds abortion, or other things that are morally reprehensible?
Christ never asked for “cheerful giving”—that would be St. Paul, not Christ.
Honest Bible study means that you approach the Bible with a mind open to God speaking through the Word. One lays aside his or her pre-conceived notions about what the Bible says and opens up oneself to the living, breathing, Word of God.
Jesus never said cheerful giving. Please do a Bible study and show me Jesus saying these words. They are not there.
How is taking away needed healthcare from poor people something that Jesus would support? In fact, do you truly believe that is Jesus were here today, he would not be working to insure that all human beings had access to adequate, affordable health care that sustains life?
Well, if you reject St. Paul, you reject nearly 60% of the New Testament.
Being a Christian means you accept the New Testament as the inerrant word of God.
But if you want to talk gospel and the direct words of Christ:
Nutshell: When we give generously, God will give us even more to give back in return.
Giving generously requires a cheerful, thankful, heart. I don’t know how that is done with a non-cheerful, unthankful, heart….
Filing out a a compulsed tax form does not quality as “generous giving” from a Christ centered perspective.
Even if it did, the first word in Luke 6:38 is “give”. “Give” implies choice. Taxes are not “choice”.
I also suggest
All these passages on giving have one common theme. Giving is an intensely, personal, expression of Christ’s kingdom and one’s faith as part of that kingdom.
Can that be done when the government takes, and then hands it over to Planned Parenthood, without your personal involvement of your faith, or knowledge, in any manner, whatsoever?
You are awesome—your proof texting proves my point. You have decided Jesus commands cheerful giving—words of St. Paul, but not Jesus—and now you pull out your Bible to show me something that is not there to prove your point which only proves mine.
SO rather than argue over cheerful giving, how about answering this: “How is taking away needed healthcare from poor people something that Jesus would support? In fact, do you truly believe that is Jesus were here today, he would not be working to insure that all human beings had access to adequate, affordable health care that sustains life?”
PS—the answer is either a simple yes or no.
Calling abortion “health care” detracts from the already poor points you are trying to make.
Smeety, I am not calling abortion health care—birth control, diagnostic tests and screenings—these are healthcare. These are the things that the dollars withheld paid forv—not abortions.
“How is taking away needed healthcare from poor people something that Jesus would support? In fact, do you truly believe that is Jesus were here today, he would not be working to insure that all human beings had access to adequate, affordable health care that sustains life?”
So the Albrecht free clinic, and other free clinics like it, have been shut down?
Last I checked, Albrecht gets regular, free will donations from the community, that I think, are, at times, very generous.
From a PR perspective, I would reccomend Planned Parenthood become a Christian organization, (which means stop performing abortions, at a minimum). Christians tend to support Christian organizations. That is what Christians do as part of the great commission of forwarding the kingdom.
The reason Planned Parenthood cannot get enough private support is becuse they do things that are not Christian. That offends the faith of a large number of Christians.
That is the PR problem here on raising private, cheerful, voluntary donations…it’s an organization that rejects Christ by its actions.
Kevin, again you are missing the point. Albrecht is not enough. How many members of your congregation do not have adequate healthcare or health insurance? What is your congregation doing to be Christ-like in providing healing to all members of your congregation?
And again, you ignore Christ—you launch into a BS filled diatribe redirecting it away from Jesus—if Jesus were here, would he do everything he could to insure that all people have access to healthcare? It is a yes or a no that you refuse to answer, because in the answer, you and your convenient Christian friends stand condemned. Even with Albrecht, there are thousands of people in Washington County who do not have access to affordable or any healthcare. What are you doing about it—other than supporting a Gov. who takes funding away from birth control and diagnostic tests that keep poor women healthy. Would Jesus really advocate not funding a group that provides lifesaving diagnostics?
she just does not have the $80/month for the birth control.
Does she have a cell phone? Does she have Internet service? Does she have Cable or Satellite TV?
Jason, according to my friend, yes, but no home phone, no internet, no cable, no satellite. Any more ways you can try to diminish someone who can only get a barely above minimum wage job—yes college graduate.
I’m not trying to diminish anyone, asshat. You introduced her, and implied a life saving $80 / month is too much for her. She does pay for a life saving cell phone though… we all make choices.
Owen’s post about Roatan didn’t go deep enough. Most of the people living on “Paradise” are truly poor. No cell phone, car, electricity, running water. That’s poor. I’ve been to Roatan, it’s humbling to look at the “poor” in America and even think it’s close to the same as the “poor” in most of the rest of the world.
What are you doing about it
Spreading the gospel as best I can. Keeping people out of hell is the best health care there is.
I’d prefer to keep Christ’s charitable work, through me, in a humble status. Making a list here would not be in the spirit of Matthew 6:2.
Could I do more in any aspect of the Christian ministry? Sure, its all part of growing my Christian faith.
If you really want to force others to fund free clinics through government, (especially when Jerry admitted the abuse in posts above) why don’t we do it through organizations that don’t kill unborn children?
And again, you ignore Christ—you launch into a BS filled diatribe redirecting it away from Jesus—if Jesus were here, would he do everything he could to insure that all people have access to healthcare?
Through the means you espouse? A resounding no. Clear enough?
I think the crux of the issue here is that when given the option, the agency in question close the clinics that do exactly what everyone agrees is a noble effort. If what I read here is correct, both sides feel that offering lower cost HEALTH care is justified but the clinics closed did not offer the sticking point. Instead it chose to keep the abortion mills operating while abandoning the poor women in the rural areas who needs actual medical assistance. That speaks more about the priorities of the agency than the funding cut itself. They choose abortion over health services for women and so the whole arguement that they are primarily a health services agency who cares about the health of women is patently false Close a couple of the 7 clinics in Milwaukee county. If you really care about those poor women outstate, keep the remote clinics open and close one to 5 that are in clusters of the 2 big cities in the state. Bootom line is that this is about abortion and not about health services.
Bottom line- another voice’s logic triumphs subject changing .
AV, congratulations… Maley has declared you the winner. Continue to kill babies in good conscience with our money !
Smeety, you are a typical jerk. You know nothing about what I believe about abortion and frankly, from your comments, you do not care.
If we are going to unfund abortion providers who get state money, then we need to make sure that no hospital or physician who ever performed an abortion does not get any Medicaid funding. That is exactly the argument the state made in unfunding Planned Parenthood. All this decision by the state shows, is that they are going after Planned Parenthood. If Gov Walker really cared about ending abortion, he would stop Medicaid payments to any physician or hospital or clinic, public or private, that ever provided an abortion. And, even if the specific hospital did not provide abortions, the hospital system should not receive Medicaid if any hospital in the system did ever provide abortions. That is what this action against Planned Parenthood equals.
Am I wrong? Do you not demand that the money I earn goes to fund abortions?
First of all Smeety, no money you earn goes to fund abortions. It is illegal under both state and federal law for money from the state and federal government to fund abortions. Period. And Smeety, if the money you earn should not be used to pay for abortions, do you suggest that any Physician, clinic or hospital that receives Medicaid funding be cut off from Medicaid? That is carrying out your beliefs to a logical conclusion.
The problem with the abortion debate is highlighted by the decision to defund Planned Parenthood. There are some basic facts about abortion that those who call for not funding Planned Parenthood ignore. The abortion issue is at its heart, a class and economic issue. The bottom line, is that women, conservative and liberal, rich and middle class and poor, black, white, Hispanic…..will continue to get abortions. Nothing will stop that. Women in the US will always find a way to get an abortion. It is part of the whole freedom thing that conservatives love to shove in the face of liberals when it suits their agenda.
Women with means, will find safe and legal ways to get abortions. They will go to Mexico or other countries where abortion is legal and use healthcare providers there so that the abortions are safe for the mother. Women without the means will find ways also to get abortions. These will be done in back rooms and bathrooms and bedrooms. These abortions will be done without safeguards in place. Women will also try to self-abort. Women without means will die if we roll back the clock on abortion.
That is the real abortion crisis in this country. Those with means will do it safely and live—those without, will take chances and some of them will die.
If Gov Walker really cared about ending abortion, he would stop Medicaid payments to any physician or hospital or clinic, public or private, that ever provided an abortion.
That sounds like a great idea.
Now that you brought Medicare/Medicaid up…and its $60 billion in fraud, waste, and abuse ANNUALLY, (That’s what we know about and government seems powerless, every year, to stop it) is this a good time to talk about good stewardship of resources?
(Just on the waste, fraud, and abuse, alone we could just write a straight $2500 check to a family of 4, every year. Plenty of money to get birth control.)
Funding these programs through public means (vs. relying on private charity) deprives people of resources because of the bad stewardship of government.
Let’s not forget the truth about Planned Parenthood that Lila Rose has exposed. Below is one on several sting operations she orchestrated to expose their complete disregard for parental authority, and other fraud. A google search will show more…
If justice were served, we should completely defund this organization. They lie over and over again. Pap smears or mammograms are just a front for their real agenda.
What would Jesus do? After a bit of research, the answer will be clear.
Controversy continues over an undercover video showing Milwaukee abortion clinic staff agreeing to cover up the statutory rape of a purported 14-year-old. Extended video footage casts doubt on Planned Parenthood of Wisconsin’s claim that no identifying information was provided and so could not be reported.
Lila Rose, leader of the pro-life group Live Action, recently posed as a teenage girl seeking an abortion at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
This is from a Planned Parenthood in Milwaukee. http://m.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=18821
And this from Wisconsin clinics:
In the video, a staffer tells a woman who is reportedly 6 to 8 weeks pregnant that at this stage her baby has “no arms, no legs, no heart no head, no brain.” The staffer emphasizes the difficulties of adoption, urges the woman to obtain an abortion as soon as possible, says that images of abortion are fabricated, and states that the unborn child at 6 to 8 weeks has no “identifiable parts” and is just “fetal matter.”
A similar video released in December from an Appleton, WI abortion clinic prompted state senator Glenn Grothman to call for an investigation of Planned Parenthood of Wisconsin. Two leading embryologists also denounced Planned Parenthood’s counseling, calling it “absurd and scientifically erroneous.” Live Action also released a video last February catching Planned Parenthood of Wisconsin failing to comply with mandatory reporting laws for the sexual abuse of a 14 year old girl.
Bottom line- another voice’s logic triumphs subject changing .
What the heck does this even mean? Did you mean ‘trumps’? He asked for a yes/no answer and unlike anyone else I gave him one. How does that make him triumphant? Is it because you believe the bald faced ignorance of this line?
It is a yes or a no that you refuse to answer, because in the answer, you and your convenient Christian friends stand condemned.
You naively believe that ‘no’ means I stand condemned if I am a Christian? Whatevah, foo’.
AV, your logical extension does not carry much logic. That would be an extension of one ideal of thought carried out to an extreme. It is the same as saying that funding PP and abortions logically and only lead to eugenics. It starts with unwanted children, and then extends to physician/PP suggestions on whether to get an abortion, and obviously culminates in a program of gene control where rapists and aborters are just bred out. That is what Government funding of PP equals, right?
Yours was a bad argument. PP would be out of the spotlight and probably not targeted if it did not activelyadvocate abortion. As abortion is not universally approved/sought after in this country, it makes sense that the party that is against it would not publicly fund it, until there is a clear majority of Americans who want it as part of normal healthcare. They could take it out of their curriculum, as it were, and not be defunded or increase drives for funding rather than martyr some locales. That is, as libs say, what Democracy looks like.
Haha yeah citing a website that on the front page states ‘share pro-life news here’ isn’t going to be biased heavily at all.
Why is it any of your businesswhat other people do withtheir body ? You want small government unless it’s to probe a vagina.
Well, this entire conversation has been about “What Would Jesus Do” when it comes to this funding issue. Liberals were implying conservatives were not doing what Jesus would have wanted.
I was moved to clarify the debate that forced Planned Parenthood funding is not the generous, cheerful, thankful, givng Christ would advocate.
Now, when the abortion issue comes up, WWJD should not be talked about?
We are living by the liberal standard where this thread started. Mary was right on point.
It’s just unfortunate that some Christians do not read their bible and think abortion and compusive, unthankful, non-cheerful, forced, “giving” is WWJD.
The source of the video stings on Planned Parenthood have nothing to do with what the videos reveal. I hope many will watch them and learn what Planned Parenthood is all about.
In comment 31 the real truth comes out. This was not about women’s health but rather about fetalcide and money. How many clinics in milwaukee could have been closed with little or no impact to the female population? You have to ride the bus 5 more stops to kill your baby? The women outstate who apparently, according to the anti baby types on this thread, have no other option but pp now have to travel to milwaukee or madison for an affordable PAP or mammogram. AV it is not like that at all. It is more analagous to a doc getting funding cut and then announcing that they will sell the lab and radiology equipment and focus on fetalcide as the primary practice. Then, and here is the kicker, will tell all the patients and public that the reason they can only get abortions at the clinic now is because the big meanies cut the funding for the rest. What pp did was brilliant. Tell the poor chattel that if they do not rise up and protest, they will die of cancers but come on in and kill a baby.
Birth control is free under Obamacare anyway.
EZ—only if you have health insurance, and even those with health insurance pay for it based on their policy.
Under Obamacare, insurers need to provide birth control the same way that they provide other prescription drugs.
EZ & AV, nothing is free under Obamacare. The only free healthcare is the preventive maintenance each person does to preserve his/her health. I am not sure what is worse. Someone believing a paid service is free, or someone else bemoaning that it is not.
I just heard my pastor talking about this:
There is a misconception that Planned Parenthood offers mammograms. This article explains that is completely false. Planned Parenthood loves the idea that most people think they offer this screening.
They are only and all about killing little children and taking away parental authority.
Great Job on your Pastor’s willingness to call out evil.