Patriotism
For my hero, by his hero.
Hat tip, Ol’ Broad.
Good stuff. It had me thinking, though, about the change he claims to have seen in patriotism in America. To the extent that there was a change, it surely has a lot to do with the debacle that was the Vietnam war and possibly the death of JFK and the ouster of Nixon. And, frankly, a deep questioning about what the hell we were doing here in America was an appropriate response, not something to be quashed as bad.
I’m also reminded of the Iraq war and of government-sanctioned torture. Same kind of thing, really. Makes patriotic Americans question what the hell we are doing. And, today, as it was then, it’s an appropriate response.
Posted by scott on July 04, 2010 at 1309 hrs
A great man and a great President… to be sure. He meant what he said, and he was proud of America every minute of his Presidency… no apologies, and no faint-hearted whining about the ill-perceived Constitutional rights of our mortal enemies. Negotiation was done from a position of strength, and the goal was always the furthering of American interests. No bowing either.
Perhaps some day we will see a President like that again… but for now, at least Mr. Obama can keep that chair warm till a President shows up.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 04, 2010 at 1417 hrs
Reagan never bowed to a foreign leader or dignitary?
Posted by scott on July 04, 2010 at 1422 hrs
Ah, this brought back memories of a time when things were much better in America. I didn’t appreciate Reagan then but I do now.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 04, 2010 at 1429 hrs
Negotiation was done from a position of strength, and the goal was always the furthering of American interests.
Ah, this brought back memories of a time when things were much better in America.
Um, like facilitating the illegal sale of arms to Iran?
Pro-Iraq position with providing military intelligence and aid.
October 19,1987
Illegal immigration problem solved by granting amnesty
Savings and loan crisis
A deep recession in the early 1980’s with over 10% unemployment.
The beginning of massive deficit spending.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 04, 2010 at 1611 hrs
Reagan never bowed to a foreign leader or dignitary?
I do not recall him bowing in a subservient fashion to foreign kings or rulers. I do not recall him offering a shameful bow of contrition to the Japanese emperor either. Barack Obumblers bow even embarrassed the Japanese. I suppose now you will rush off to try and google up some image of Reagan making a polite bow to some ruler. You will do this because you can’t admit to yourself that Obumbler and his staff have no real clue what they are doing. Ok, go for it. Google awaits your clicks.
I do note with interest that the bowing was the only thing you seized upon. Hm.
@Pat: Pitting Iran against Iraq and offering no offensive weapons capable of being used on us was a brilliant strategy. He bled two vile nations nearly to death. neither was able to exert influence on that area for many years. What has Obumbler done in that theater of conflict? Feckless sanctions? Yep.
Amnesty? Well, obviously you don’t have a real clue what Reagan did as far as illegal immigration. Reagan offered temporary resident status to aliens that met a set of strict guidelines. It granted no automatic citizenship or permanent resident status… no green card. The process was long, required worker status and the payment of fees. It could have been the start of a good solution to the problem had we not allowed the borders to remain open and fill our cities with more illegals. More border police and employer enforcement was to have been the trade off, but a Democrat Congress never got to that part. What has Obumbler done? Stood hand in hand with the Mexican President against his own states? Sued a state struggling with serious trouble? Put up DO NOT ENTER signs in the parks that have been overrun with dangerous smugglers and drug runners from Mexico? Yeah, well done BO.
Recession? the one President Carter created with his foolish economic policies? The policies that Obumbler is now enacting… only on steroids?
Deficits? Reasonable deficits to end a costly war could, and did, pay for themselves just a few short years later. It’s not like he threw away the whole economy like Obumbler.
Obumbler looks like a clueless and petulant child standing next to the Reagan legacy…. and he is.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 04, 2010 at 1639 hrs
In my neighborhood, my home is the only home displaying a flag today. While the dozens of individuals with whom I share this small part of our community are certainly free not to do so, it is disappointing they do not.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 04, 2010 at 1714 hrs
Recession? the one President Carter created with his foolish economic policies?
That’s precious. I constantly hear you can’t blame Bush for the recession that Obama inherited. But the name of Carter can be invoked for a different recession that someone else inherited.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 04, 2010 at 1719 hrs
In my neighborhood, my home is the only home displaying a flag today. While the dozens of individuals with whom I share this small part of our community are certainly free not to do so, it is disappointing they do not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTOQhPd2Xh4
Not kid friendly.
Posted by Jay4Liberty on July 04, 2010 at 1934 hrs
So, what’s your point? I should take my flag down because I’m too stupid to understand that I’m “not free”?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 04, 2010 at 1944 hrs
So, what’s your point? I should take my flag down because I’m too stupid to understand that I’m “not free”?
There is no point. Relax and enjoy the comedy.
Good grief people are so touchy when it comes to a flag.
Posted by Jay4Liberty on July 04, 2010 at 2028 hrs
Ok, go for it. Google awaits your clicks.
So in other words, you’re well aware that American presidents have a long history of bowing to foreign leaders and dignitaries. That there’s nothing new here. Except that for you this is different because it exists in a whole new and bad milieu that is largely just a matter of your distorted partisan view of American politics. Stop whining about it and get on to some substantive complaints.
offered temporary resident status to aliens that met a set of strict guidelines. It granted no automatic citizenship or permanent resident status… no green card. The process was long, required worker status and the payment of fees
If the president were to do these exact things, he’d be instantly blasted for it—and I fully believe you’d be chief among the complainers.
More border police and employer enforcement was to have been the trade off,
I’m not even sure we can effectively stop this kind of immigration through border enforcement alone. One clever right-wing idea lately was an “underground electric fence.” Which is of course idiocy squared. And besides, creating an iron curtain in the American southwest doesn’t really address the economic and labor market issues regarding our dependence on these cheap laborers. It’s big, complicated issue. “Close the border, it’s easy!” is to me the exact same thing is wearing a big sign which reads “I’m a fucking idiot!” I admit I don’t have a good bead on exactly what to do. But I’d love to see us exercise a little American pressure on Mexico to do something about it’s own economic woes. Doing so might discourage people from coming here in the first place. Mexico is not a poor country, yet most of it’s people are poor. Then, I don’t see why we can’t just make it possible for more people to immigrate legally. And, yes, I’d like to see a “path to citizenship” for many of the people already here. Just like St. Ronnie tried to do in the past.
Posted by scott on July 04, 2010 at 2044 hrs
But I’d love to see us exercise a little American pressure on Mexico to do something about it’s own economic woes. Doing so might discourage people from coming here in the first place.
This would all go away if businesses would stop employing illegal aliens. But businesses really don’t want reform and they have the laws shaped so it doesn’t happen.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 04, 2010 at 2116 hrs
Thanks for hijacking the post on patriotism, guys.
Sorry, Dad. I know you know why I posted it.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 04, 2010 at 2230 hrs
You know, while I appreciate this speech for its rhetoric, I’ve always found it self-contradictory as well.
Reagan talks about the halcyon days of the past, where everyone allegedly knew was patriotism was. Then he says “...as for those who create the popular culture, well-grounded patriotism is no longer the style. Our spirit is back, but we haven’t reinstitutionalized it. We’ve got to do a better job of getting across that America is freedom - freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of enterprise. And freedom is special and rare. It’s fragile; it needs protection.”
And then the next words out of his mouth are “So, we’ve got to teach history based not on what’s in fashion but what’s important.” And later, “Let’s start with some basics: more attention to American history and a greater emphasis on civic ritual.” (all emphasis mine)
Reagan alleges his interest is in freedom, but it’s clear from the surrounding words that he’s far more concerned about using institutional, social, and possibly government pressure to force a certain archetype of patriotism on others, one that stifles freedom instead of encouraging it.
What Reagan is romanticizing is a day when everyone stood lockstep and said the pledge and complied with a notion of patriotism that was way heavy on militarism. But pressuring people into public gestures that are supportive of their country, or espousing certain opinions because they’re afraid of what their government will do if they disagree (see McCarthy, Joe) isn’t freedom; it’s nationalism. It’s no better than what people in North Korea or Iran are forced to deal with every day.
America is about an idea - a living idea, a growing idea, an evolving idea that started as the ultimate project of the Enlightenment. Reagan’s later emphasis on education and knowledge is great. Certainly we are all better served by knowledge and not ignorance, even though our ballot box counts the votes of the wise man and the fool no differently (something even Alexis de Tocqueville warned could be our undoing).
The U.S. government naturalizes an average of 700,000 new citizens each year. And I’m pretty sure that those people have a better idea of what it truly means to be American than Ronald Reagan or most any of us who were born here could ever hope to have.
Posted by Recess Supervisor on July 04, 2010 at 2326 hrs
Wendy, I’m sorry if you indented the discussion to go another way. But I don’t feel a bit bad about anything I’ve said. I’ve tried to keep it thoughtful and genuine without insulting anyone. Hope you had a nice holiday.
Posted by scott on July 04, 2010 at 2358 hrs
So in other words, you’re well aware that American presidents have a long history of bowing to foreign leaders and dignitaries.
There is a bow of respect between equals and there is the genuflection of an underling. I think most Presidents understood that… well, at least 43 of them. Even the Japanese were embarrassed for Obumbler.
If the president were to do these exact things, he’d be instantly blasted for it—and I fully believe you’d be chief among the complainers.
Your fantasied about my views on immigration are as predictably wrong as your views on the majority of topics here, largely due to the fact that you don’t read the substance of posts you disagree with. Actually, it would be nice if Obumbler would do anything that would help. Immigration is a whole topic itself, but he were to fully implement President Reagan’s plan (all of it this time, including the enforcement and border control parts) it would probably please most conservatives. Sadly, Obumbler is on the side of a foreign power over one of his own states.
And besides, creating an iron curtain in the American southwest doesn’t really address the economic and labor market issues regarding our dependence on these cheap laborers.
Reagan’s policy would have made crossing the border harder, and finding a job as an illegal very difficult. No services, no welfare, no drivers license, no school. You get a temp worker permit or you get nothing. The loonies on the left would never stand for us treating their future (current?) voters this way.
The left always says “We can’t do it”. Why run for government on the platform that government will solve all our problems if you don’t even believe that it can solve the simpler ones.
Thanks for hijacking the post on patriotism, guys.
Sorry you feel that way Wendy. I suspect Reagan would have felt that spirited debate about our nations future would be a great exercise in patriotism. Where else could people express their beliefs without fear but in a free nation such as this? Right here…. America at it’s finest.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 05, 2010 at 0017 hrs
Thanks for hijacking the post on patriotism, guys.
I guess we could use more civility here.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 05, 2010 at 0606 hrs
Thank you for a trip down memory lane… The very first vote I ever cast was for Reagan, and to this day he remains the one and only person I can truly say I have voted for.
While I have never missed an election, I usually find myself holding my nose and voting for the lesser of two evils. For example, I never cared for Bush, but I think Gore was corrupt and not entirely sane….so not much of a choice.
Reagan was a truly great man, and I will eternally be grateful for the dreams he shared with us.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 06, 2010 at 1003 hrs
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