Only one way to bear arms – openly

My column for the West Bend Daily News is online.  It’s called, “Only one way to bear arms – openly.”  You didn’t think I’d leave this topic alone, did you?  Here’s a snippet:

Unfortunately, some law enforcement officers reacted with the bravado of school yard bullies. Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn, of whom I’ve been a fan, reacted by saying that if his officers observe someone openly carrying a firearm, they would be instructed to “put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it.” Several other police chiefs reacted in similar veins.

  The reaction is chilling. Openly carrying a firearm is one of our rights enshrined and protected in not one, but two Constitutions for Wisconsinites. Yet here we have law enforcement officers openly declaring that they will make it a policy to harass, physically accost and seize the property of people who are merely exercising their rights. If such a policy were enacted against those exercising their First Amendment rights, it would be universally condemned.

  We are now faced with the prospect of civil rights suits being filed against police departments that unconstitutionally deprive citizens of their right to openly carry a firearm, disruption in the lives of law-abiding citizens, and the specter of someone ending up shot. In fact, one such suit has already been filed in federal court in Wisconsin.

  Openly carrying a firearm is legal and constitutionally protected. If the police and lawmakers don’t want guns in the open, I invite them to aggressively advance sensible legislation for concealed carry. Until then, I will wear my gun outside my pants for all the honest world to feel. 

1. I’m for concealed—and open—carry.  But not because of the typical reasons people give.  Not because I think granny’s are going to blow away would-be rapists in alleys.  Not because I think white families are going to hold the dark-skinned marauders at bay via the use of firearms.  Not because I think it’s going to do anything measurable in terms of public safety.  I’m for it because there’s no convincing evidence that it’s going cause a lot of harm to public safety.  And absent that compelling interest, the government should not prevent people from doing as they wish.

   Posted by scott on April 28, 2009 at 0912 hrs




2. Good article Owen, hopefully someday Wisconsin will join the other 48 states and allow concealed carry.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 28, 2009 at 0942 hrs




3. “Until then, I will wear my gun outside my pants for all the honest world to feel. “

   Interesting that you would co-opt the words of van Zandt for your piece.  Keep in mind that the character you quote died alone in the desert in that song.

   Carrying your piece on your hip is undoubtedly legal.  It’s also antisocial, paranoid, needlessly macho and more than a little bit silly.  It says to the world that you are afraid and unsure.  Carry on with that.

   In almost any other society the only ones carrying weaponry are the outlaws and the wannabes.  Which would you prefer to be known as?

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 28, 2009 at 0944 hrs




4. In almost any other society the only ones carrying weaponry are the outlaws and the wannabes. 

   So its wrong for us to want to protect ourselves and loved ones from these outlaws by carrying the same or better? If that makes me a “wannabe” then oh well, I’m the one who has to live with the label.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 28, 2009 at 1002 hrs




5. I’m 40 years old.  I’ve lived in both Los Angeles and several not-so-nice locations in Milwaukee.  I still continue to work in the downtown area and walk several blocks to and from my car every day.  In all my life the closest I’ve ever come to being robbed or assaulted is when I was about 9 and some older kids took my bike from me. 

   Nothing in my own personal experience would move me to carry a firearm.  If I were to start packing I might as well start wearing a hardhat every day, too.  Nobody’s ever dropped a hammer on my head from overhead scaffolding, but you never know!

   Posted by scott on April 28, 2009 at 1026 hrs




6. I’m 35 years old, I have been assaulted twice, once at gunpoint. I don’t go around walking in bad areas. Both of these we while walking on a city street in plain daylight. After I had a gun held to me I made a decision that I wouldn’t let a criminal have that control again, I enrolled in the police academy and became a Sheriffs Deputy in Michigan. It didn’t pan out for me due to circumstances I won’t discuss here. I like the fact I can equalize the field when I’m out and about and defend myself and loved ones.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 28, 2009 at 1039 hrs




7. Carrying your piece on your hip is undoubtedly legal.  It’s also antisocial, paranoid, needlessly macho and more than a little bit silly.  It says to the world that you are afraid and unsure.  Carry on with that.

   Grumps, you don’t have a clue.

   I open carried last week when I went grocery shopping at pick-n-save, in a convenience store, wal-mart, target, and around my neighborhood.  My neighbors still waved to me, people still said hi in the stores, no-one went running.

   I’m not sure where you picked a psychology doctorate, or just what observational evidence you are basing your judgements off of.

   But I can tell you that you are wrong.  Unlike sitting behind a keyboard and making up pejorative comments to justify your displeasure with constitutional rights, I know the reality.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 28, 2009 at 1057 hrs




8. It’s a naive fantasy to think that carrying a weapon will always save you when you’re held up at gunpoint. First, the last thing most muggers want to do is shoot you. They may not be nice people, but that doesn’t make them stupid. If you pull out a gun, that immediately changes the dynamic and drastically increases the odds that someone is going to get shot. Not always the mugger.

   Anyway, you’re assuming you’ll actually have a chance to reach for your gun. “Hey, I’m just reaching in here for a breath mint….”

   The funny thing about would-be vigilantes who want to carry guns is that very few of them live in the places where they’re most likely to be held up. Because most of the people who really have been held up realize that carrying a gun will usually just make the situation a whole lot worse.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 28, 2009 at 1133 hrs




9. Because most of the people who really have been held up realize that carrying a gun will usually just make the situation a whole lot worse.

   Most of the places where one is liable to be held up won’t allow a citizen to carry - concealed or otherwise.  Chicago, South East D.C. - places like that.

   Posted by Brian Dunbar on April 28, 2009 at 1157 hrs




10. NYTexan.  You are just story-telling.  Making up a story to fit your position on the topic. Not a productive method of debate.

    EVEN the most conservative of studies estimated that there are well over 100,000 “defensive uses of a gun” every year.  The most respected studies estimate the number MUCH higher (around 2 MILLION) Most of these defensive uses of a gun never result in a shot being fired.

    “would-be vigilantes”???? So now anyone who would like to have the opportunity, if they were in fear for their life “defend it” is a “would be vigilante?”  Good grief.  Thats rediculous. You should be ashamed of yourself to come on a blog an publically post comments that have no factual basis other than your personal opinions and represent them as fact.

    Thanks for the story hour Aesop.  Lets deal with reality here. I mean lets disect your rediculous post:

    It’s a naive fantasy to think that carrying a weapon will always save you when you’re held up at gunpoint.

    No one thinks a carrying a gun will “always” save them.  So this point is irrelevant.

    First, the last thing most muggers want to do is shoot you.

    Are you a criminologist?  You see inside the mind of criminals?  What are you basing your “vast” knowledge of the mind of a criminal off of?

    A question for you.  Is the last thing a rapist wants to do rape? 

    Considering we have criminals in the past WEEK here in Milwaukee that beat a man into a coma BECAUSE THEY WERE BORED, I’d say that you’re assessment of criminal behavior is naive at best and out right proposterous at worst. 

    Last year here in Milwaukee we had a mugger that shot and killed an unarmed executive from Miller Brewing Company in a parking lot outside a nightclub.  If this man was alive I’m SURE he’d disagree with you that “the last thing a mugger wants to do is kill you”  Again NYTexan, I don’t know where you come up with your “inside knowledge of the mind of a mugger” but its not based in logic or reality.

    If you pull out a gun, that immediately changes the dynamic and drastically increases the odds that someone is going to get shot. Not always the mugger

    Could you please provide some statistics to support the gun MYTH that guns get used against you?  I mean with all the anti-gun bias in media and anti-gun groups out there SURELY this should be easy information to come by no? 48 states allow concealled carry.  We need not play make-believe and speculate or use statistical models to figure out of law-abiding citizens with guns WORKS.  We have ALL the real-world data in the world to prove that it does.  If there was a downside in ALL these states that allow citizens to carry firearms (openly and concealled) I can ASSURE you we’d know all about it on the news.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 28, 2009 at 1228 hrs




11. The interesting wrinkle here is that opponents of conceal and carry worried that Wisconsin would become a ‘Wild West’ state.  But in reality, a ‘Wild West’ scenario would actually be more in line with ‘open carry’ than conceal and carry.  At least, that’s how it’s portrayed in the movies. 

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 28, 2009 at 1244 hrs




12. Please, please, please, Owen and B&S posters, use your influence among the conservative base to make your rights to openly carry, and your desire for concealed carry, a top priority for the Republican candidate for Governor in 2010.  I implore you to put your full effort to make this a priority issue in the next election.  Nothing would make me happier.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 28, 2009 at 1345 hrs




13. No need lefty.  Its already our right. Its already twice over secured by the state constitution and federal constitution.

    We need do nothing.

    The effort would have to be on behalf of those who wish to take the right away.  You’d have to amend the state constitution.  And Leon Young aside, I don’t think many democrats want to commit political suicide.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 28, 2009 at 1352 hrs




14. Time for some civil disobedience, time to start taking back our civil rights, time to challenge Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn,  I’m calling for a mass open carry in front of Milwaukee City Hall.  The way I see this happening is that in one minute intervals a citizen walks the block around Milwaukee City with a firearm openly strapped to their leg.  No congregating, no rally, just a singular citizen taking a walk with their constitutionally protect sidearm.  How could there be justification to arrest such an individual?  Let the games begin!

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 28, 2009 at 1430 hrs




15. xxpilot,

    And yet here we are talking about it….

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 28, 2009 at 1446 hrs




16. As Grumps pointed out, the song “Pancho & Lefty” was written by Townes Van Zandt, not Willy Nelson and Merle Haggard.  Getting it wrong kind of undercuts your Texas cred, as well as your basic theme.

    Posted by Barry (not the Alvarez) on April 28, 2009 at 1449 hrs




17. For those so inclined (lefty and NYTexan will be lining right up)  We have 2 action items.

    A petition for those who would like to sign.  Current law states that you must unload and encase your firearm in a vehicle to transport.  This necessitates excess loading/unloading in parking lots or other locations everytime you enter and exit a vehicle.  There is also an onerous school zone law by which carrying a gun within 1000 ft of a school is a felony.  Of course that’d be no problem if schools were located in vast expanses of nowhere but considering 1000ft from the edge of a school’s property includes thousands upon thousands of residences that are in effect “land locked” and unable to carry off of their property.  That law needs to be repealled as well.

    http://www.petitiononline.com/wi1848oc/petition.html

    We are also planning to run some 5 second radio spots.  Anyone who wishes to donate may do so below: 

    http://opencarry.org/carryland.html

    Lastly anyone who would like to learn more about open carry and promote the movement can visit http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum57/

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 28, 2009 at 1510 hrs




18. Good luck with your petition drive.  I’ll look for you to call on Scott Walker to make open carry in school zones a priority of his campaign.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 28, 2009 at 1544 hrs




19. Owen , the article says you grew up in Texas. I didn’t think you lived in Texas until a teenager.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 28, 2009 at 1718 hrs




20. Not that it’s really any of your business, but both my Parents were/are Texans and I was born when my dad was in the Army.  I lived in Saudi Arabia from 2 until 11, but came back to Texas every summer for a couple of months.  Texas was always home even when we were living elsewhere.

    Posted by Owen on April 28, 2009 at 1833 hrs




21. Well, gooooolly, Barry, you got me there.    Not only is that common knowledge, but when you google the song to make sure you get the verse right, it tells you who wrote it.  I just though I’d give props to the guys who made it famous. 

    Sheesh, if that’s all you’ve got then you should just avoid the debate.

    Posted by Owen on April 28, 2009 at 1836 hrs




22. One problem with concealed or open carry states is all the exceptions to where you can legally carry.  For example in Minnesota businesses can ban employees or customers from carrying firearms on their property and many post such signs.  Are you going to respect the business or property owner’s “rights” or is your “right” to carry more important?  (When smoking is debated business owners’ rights always comes up.)  Proponents of concealed or open carry don’t give this angle of the topic much thought.  How much good will your gun be out in your car in the parking lot if a maniac comes in shooting up the place (mall, work, church, etc.)?

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 28, 2009 at 1915 hrs




23. The lyrics for Pancho and Lefty (as noted on the Karoke version) are wrong.  ‘He wore his gun outside his pants, for all the honest world to ‘fear’... not ‘feel’.

    That said… I (and many of my neighbors) wear our guns outside our pants daily… everywhere. Almost everywhere anyway… incluuding banks, grocery stores… ‘n whatever.  Being ‘heeled’ is part of getting dressed. It’s a cultural thing I suppose, but openly bearing arms’ has been recognized in Arizona since before there was an ‘Arizona’.  Law-abiding people tend to remain law-abiding.

    Before anyone introduces fantasy scenarios of having ‘guns taken’... it doesn’t happen. If that were the case it’d happen frequently.  It doesn’t. An openly carried (holstered) firearm is a visible deterrent to any criminal activity against yourself or others.  The only requirement to carry a firearm openly is to be within’ the borders of AZ and not a felon or such.  NM is the same… as is most areas of CO, NV and oh… 36 other states if I recall.  AK and NH have no permit or other requirements for concealed or open carry.  No major shoot-outs in the streets that I know of. Rights are not ‘granted’ by governments… they are recognized, protected and defended.  Free people are ‘born’ with certain rights… and the right to self defense is one of those ‘inalienable’ rights.  Firearms are among (but not the only) means to self defense.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 28, 2009 at 1945 hrs




24. *sigh*

    A fair amount of misinformation here, and just a bit of projecting.

    First off, I do believe the “1000 ft of school grounds” thing was thrown out, as it would negatively impact on home owners near schools.

    Next item (and minor point): the “no permit” states are Alaska and Vermont. And there ARE cities in Alaska where you need a permit…

    48 states with SOME form of concealed carry, and yet none of them have any “blood in the streets” stories. And yet, there are still folks who want to go on about how “violent” people must be, to be carrying a weapon.

    For the record, Grumps and others are absolutely right: my wife wants to be able to carry because it makes her feel macho, not because she’d like to be able to defend herself…

    Yes: there are many places that can and do bar CCW. Here in WI, it’s illegal to possess a weapon in a bar. your point? You learn to avoid such places that post, possibly writing letters to the owners to point out the business they’re loosing. Isn’t that how it should be?

    YOU make the choice not to carry: that’s your right. But while I’m defending your right to choose, don’t be trying to take mine away from me…

    Posted by Strings on April 28, 2009 at 2011 hrs




25. For example in Minnesota businesses can ban employees or customers from carrying firearms on their property and many post such signs.  Are you going to respect the business or property owner’s “rights” or is your “right” to carry more important?

    Private property is private property. I BEG business owners who don’t respect the law and my constitutional rights to PLEASE post a sign letting me know.

    It would break my heart to know that I was spending my hard earned money at the business of someone who didn’t believe in our most basic of freedoms. 

    So if you own a business, and you don’t believe in gun rights, PLEASE post the biggest sign you have indicating “no firearms allowed” I will MOST happily avoid ever setting foot in your store.  I might even write you a thank-you note for preventing me from enriching the pocketbook of someone who doesn’t believe in law abiding citizens rights.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 28, 2009 at 2102 hrs




26. What if the business is a gun shop?

    

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 29, 2009 at 1227 hrs




27. I have seen gun shops that have signs on their door that all firearms must be encased etc. 

    As a matter of principle I see no reason why they should be “special” and if anyone should honor constitutional rights, they should. 

    As a courtesy to them, I may place a phone call first to make sure they don’t want my business.  Knowing how much money I have spent at my gun shop of choice, I’ll be very suprised if they hold to their policy.  If they do, I will purchase my firearms at a different location and find a different range to shoot at.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 29, 2009 at 1239 hrs




28. You don’t have to eliminate a right, if you can intimidate it.

    Posted by elliot on April 29, 2009 at 1240 hrs




29. Quote: You don’t have to eliminate a right, if you can intimidate it.

    Posted by elliot on April 29, 2009 at 1240 hrs

    It’s the intimidation part that led me to this forum… the actions/statements and arrogance of Chief Flynn in Milwaukee. This type of Jack Booted Thug (JBT) mentality operating under color of law infuriates me.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 29, 2009 at 1303 hrs




30. Y’all should quit bitchin’ and just be thankful ya don’t live in the People’s Republic of Illinois. We don’t have the option of CCW in Illinois. We have to get license to buy guns and ammo (FOID card) and you’re in deep shit if you travel north into the Land of King Richard (Chicago) with your handgun!!

    Furthermore, open carry is (probably) not an option either because we’re prohibited from carrying a loaded weapon, so that makes open carry a little silly, don’t ya think?

    Of course, I’m just joking about the “quit bitchin” part—speak up long and loud!

    Posted by ProphetJoe on April 29, 2009 at 1356 hrs




31. It’s the intimidation part that led me to this forum… the actions/statements and arrogance of Chief Flynn in Milwaukee. This type of Jack Booted Thug (JBT) mentality operating under color of law infuriates me.

    come on over!  http://www.opencarry.org

    http://www.opencarry.org

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum57/

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 29, 2009 at 1616 hrs




32. I’m already there!

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 29, 2009 at 1703 hrs




33. It is wonderful if you are retired or own your own business and can set the rules.  However, most people work for someone else.  Right or wrong, in concealed carry states a great many employers ban workers from carrying weapons on company property.  So the employee leaves the gun in his or her car (on company property) and just keeps quiet about it.  The point is, concealed or open carry for protection becomes irrelevant in these situations where people spend a lot of their time.
     
    Do concealed or open carry proponents really want to carry firearms into churches?  Would you want to be armed sitting in bleachers watching your kids’ little league games in the park this summer?  Would you feel safer if half of the other parents there were armed?  But hey, if you don’t go all the way, what’s the point, right?  Your gun isn’t going to do you much good tucked away in your car over in the parking lot if something were to happen.

    It is not enough to say, “Just choose never go anywhere firearms are banned.”  When you add up all the hours a typical parent spends at places that wouldn’t allow firearms (work, kids’ school & summer activities, church, etc.) what’s the point of concealed or open carry?  The obvious exception is at home on your own private property which I’m not debating.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 29, 2009 at 1718 hrs




34. When you add up all the hours a typical parent spends at places that wouldn’t allow firearms (work, kids’ school & summer activities, church, etc.) what’s the point of concealed or open carry?

    That’s the thing, its the attitude of the general public who won’t accept that law abiding citizens should be allowed exercise our rights. This attitude needs to change, how would you like it if you were told you could have free expression or speech in these locations? Or will that fall on deaf ears because its a strawman like you just put up?

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 29, 2009 at 1833 hrs




35. Do concealed or open carry proponents really want to carry firearms into churches? 

    Yes.

    Considering one of the largest mass murders in wisconsin occured at a church service in brookfield a couple of years ago I think its reasonable to say that you aren’t safe in church.  Definitely a wise choice to carry there.

    Would you want to be armed sitting in bleachers watching your kids’ little league games in the park this summer?

     

    Yes

    Would you feel safer if half of the other parents there were armed?

    Yes

    Your gun isn’t going to do you much good tucked away in your car over in the parking lot if something were to happen.

    Precisely.  Thats why I keep mine on me whenever I can.  Grocery shopping at pick n save, wal-mart, target, home depot, walking the dog.  you name it.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 07, 2009 at 1228 hrs




36. Some home-rule cities in Alaska, such as Anchorage and Juneau, have municipal laws requiring concealed weapons permits, but central Kenai Peninsula cities including Kenai and Soldotna follow state law. There is NOTHING barring open carry anywhere in Alaska… and a new Bill just passed there did away with ‘permit’ altogether ‘in state’. Altho… an AK CCW is required for CCW in the lower 48 where recognized.

    A gun is kind’a like a firebottle… you don’t need it ‘til you NEED it… and you never can tell where or when.  The only method of ‘carry’ (in a bar) in Virginia is ‘open carry’.  Surprise!  Not too many gunfights in Virginia bars tho are there?

    ‘Can’t carry into a bar here… or a post office… or any government building and most hospitals but that doesn’t clinics or dentists or vets.

    But… this ‘Flynn’ characters statement: “put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it.”  is wrong on so many levels it’s difficult to ‘go there’. This is a Public Servant’?

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on May 07, 2009 at 1344 hrs