“Only Government”
Obama is telling us that “only government” can fix the economy. What little faith he has in the American people.
We’ve sure done a bangup job when left to our own devices so far. Everyone acting perfectly rationally, and the market functioning like a well-oiled machine. Ha!
When it comes to government intervention, I’d prefer pre-emptive regulation over post-collapse bailouts using taxpayer dollars. I don’t think I’m alone in that assesment.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1142 hrs
And a government under his personal control. I wish I was as smart as he is.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1146 hrs
Keep trying john!
Where exactly is Obama saying this, by the way?
Posted by scott on January 08, 2009 at 1150 hrs
Here it is:
“At this particular moment, only government can provide the short-term boost necessary to lift us from a recession this deep and severe,” he said.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1201 hrs
Oops…forgot the “where”:
A speech set to be delivered at George Mason University today. Obama made broader arguments, too, saying that the private sector, typically the answer, cannot do what is needed now.
“At this particular moment, only government can provide the short-term boost necessary to lift us from a recession this deep and severe,” he said.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1204 hrs
Looks like business has gotten us in this fine mess.
In a democracy, by the way, the people are the government.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1209 hrs
I’m no expert, but it seems to me that a) the government helped cause this problem through poor regulation, and b) that he’s right: some form of government intervention is necessary to begin climbing out of it.
Posted by scott on January 08, 2009 at 1211 hrs
Its official. We are doomed to a long and deep recession thanks to Obama.
Well done you ignorant fuck…
Oh… everyone look, the sky is falling! Save us! Oh save us!
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1214 hrs
Good point Scott. Government by itself is not the solution, but lack of it was.
The GOP has been pushing deregulation hard. Isn’t that the reason many of you are Republicans?
So what happens in all cases when someone thinks no one is looking, they will try to get away with as much as possible. Time to get the cop back on the beat.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1215 hrs
Christ, you guys are acting like he just announced government seizure of all private property or something. I’d say the majority of Americans think the government should take action. I’m one of them. I don’t know precisely what that action should be, nor if it will be completely effective, but I feel certain that if nothing is done things will get worse. I realize that the government doing anything (besides locking up criminals and conducting wars) is against your ideology, but try to stay with the rest of us on this one.
Posted by scott on January 08, 2009 at 1217 hrs
In effect, he is announcing the seizure of private property in the form of the value of your money. This is a great plan to devalue your currency in order to preserve vested interests rather than address actual problems.
Exactly what is not regulated that should be regulated? Your answer will be empty because the statement is empty.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1224 hrs
Oh, come on. Surely you’re at least passingly familiar with the idea that the current banking crisis is at least partly due to poor regulation. I’m really not making this up; people are saying it. And not just crazy liberal bloggers. Try Google.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2008/10/banking-system-crisis
Posted by scott on January 08, 2009 at 1241 hrs
Ah, now it is changed to “poor” regulation. And that is the great lie always told by statists such as yourself. The solution to failed regulation is always more regulation.
Every part of the banking system is regulated, starting from the top; the Federal Reserve system.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1248 hrs
Well, “poor regulation” is exactly what I said above in comment 7, so please stop your goddamn hyperventilating already. Shit.
I’m perfectly open to the possibility that it’s not merely lack of good regulation, but perhaps there was also a presence of bad regulation.
Posted by scott on January 08, 2009 at 1251 hrs
It’s good to see that you’re letting pro-terrorist websites do your thinking for you, though, Scott.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1251 hrs
Oh for fuck’s sake. I have no idea what you’re talking about. I don’t read new statesman. It’s just one of the first things I saw on Google.
Debating with you is like trying to teach a cat to swim. No progress is ever made, but you’re likely to be attacked repeatedly.
Posted by scott on January 08, 2009 at 1256 hrs
Well then, good to see your substituting google for critical thinking.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1258 hrs
a presence of bad regulation
Would that be the regulation from the Clinton admin that forced Fannie Mae to underwrite loans to unqualified borrowers?
And before you get your panties in a bunch Scott - I also blame Bush for not repealing the executive order and piling on the home ownership for everyone bandwagon.
Bush was hardly a conservative and the government spending that we have is a direct result of compassion in government with his attitude of getting along with the left.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1308 hrs
Hey, you guys got what you wanted, which was getting government out of the way of business doing what ever it wants.
Now that’s blown up you look around and go “who us?”
The question is who is going to believe the GOP, the proprietors of much (not it was not “all”) of this mess when they make us stories about how this won’t work, it’s boo hoo our money or the whopper that the New Deal never worked. Certainly not 70% of America according to the latest polling.
I don’t want to be mean because I get accused of it so often and I do care about you people as a liberal, but that is the way it is working out right now. And at least when things get rough Obama, unlike his predecessor, knows how to communicate to the American people.
Once again government (that’s us) has to save the ass of the system I happen to love but has been abused—capitalism.
Now let’s sit back and watch the fairy tales unreel.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1309 hrs
Someone has yet to explain to me how the government throwing money at infrastructure (and let’s be honest, a lot of it like the KRM is going to be pure pork) is going to fix the economy long-term.
Short-run, it’s going to be somewhat of a boost, but long-term, how’s this going to save the retailers like Linens ‘n’ Things that have gone offer? How’s it going to create jobs for the unemployed non-unionized, non-labor skilled professionals like accountants?
Eventually government will run out of things to stimulate, and it’ll be left to the private sector to fix this, like it or not. I’d rather start sooner than later with that.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1316 hrs
I’d like to steer this conversation to what Obama actually said, instead of Owen’s self-serving revision/daily Obama snark:
It is true that we cannot depend on government alone to create jobs or long-term growth, but at this particular moment, only government can provide the short-term boost necessary to lift us from a recession this deep and severe. Only government can break the vicious cycles that are crippling
“Cannot depend on government alone,”“this particular moment,” and “short-term boost.” He’s right; only government has the resources to provide the kind of across-the-board boost that’s needed in this kind of situation. Notice the phrases short-term and cannot depend on government alone? Those would seem to belie the assertion that Obama thinks
What little faith he has in the American people.
The parts about ‘only government’ and ‘cannot depend on government alone’ were in the same actual sentence. If you’re going to pull things completely out of context, you should at least have them be a paragraph apart or something.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1323 hrs
which was getting government out of the way of business doing what ever it wants.
No we didn’t. Fannie Mae is a federal run program. Government has hardly gotten out of the way of private business.
I find it rather ironic that when the economy started to tank - was right around the same time that Pelosi & Co took complete control of the Congress - yet it is Bush’s fault.
explain to me how the government throwing money at infrastructure ... is going to fix the economy long-term.
...
Short-run, it’s going to be somewhat of a boost…
Not even short run. Let’s say you want to expand a road between Milwaukee and Chicago. you are going to spend $2B and it will take 10 years from start to finish. How is that going to help? Hell it takes a year and a half just to do the Environmental Impact Study for that project. They started planning/developing the I94NS rebuild in 2002 - They just put survey crews on ground in December and started light prep construction in Aug…
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1332 hrs
APC - have you lost it…
His own words
only government can provide the short-term boost
note the word ‘short’. yes the big O did give a bit of credit to non-gov’t entities for long term… but for short term - only the gov’t can do it.
The sad thing is that he is right…. the worse part is that he is going to do the exact opposite of what it takes to do it on the short term.
Instead of doubling federal spending - he should be cutting federal spending in half
That would strengthen the dollar. It would also allow the producers of the economy to keep their own money to save/spend.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1337 hrs
Comment #23 is precisely correct. The damage to the dollar is going to cripple any recovery in future years.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1355 hrs
Instead of doubling federal spending - he should be cutting federal spending in half
Would that include eliminating the I94 NS reconstruction and expansion Clint?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1406 hrs
Clint, I’d reply, but I can’t tell if you’re agreeing or disagreeing with me. You ask if I’ve lost it, then you say Obama’s right, then that he’ll will do the wrong thing. Confusing.
As to cutting federal spending in half, even most conservative economists say that deficit spending is in order during a recession, especially one this deep. If we continue what we’ve been doing the last few years, there won’t even be a dollar-weak, strong, or otherwise.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1426 hrs
1. Opposing the stimulus does not define a person or economist as conservative.
2. Lots of economists oppose the stimulus package and are terrified of the proposed damage to the dollar.
The Obama proposal is a continuation of the policies of the last two decades, only on a more massive scale.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1438 hrs
The Obama proposal is a continuation of the policies of the last two decades, only on a more massive scale.
Yep.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1442 hrs
Here’s a piece that ought to be required reading for everyone in the administration and congress and anyone who embrace the idea of a trillion dollar stimulus package:
http://www.mises.org/story/1099
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1447 hrs
Look, I’m no economist, nor do I play one in the comments section of blogs. My whole point for jumping in here was to call bullshit on the whole “Obama has no faith in the American people” thing and to point out that what Obama actually said had no relation to what Owen implied that Obama said. Again.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1541 hrs
I know, apc. Obama did not say he had no faith in America nor should he shoulder the blame for what has already happened. He will, however, shoulder the blame for what is to come.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1545 hrs
what Obama actually said had no relation to what Owen implied that Obama said. Again.
Why expect anything less?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1603 hrs
that deficit spending is in order during a recession, especially one this deep. If we continue what we’ve been doing the last few years, there won’t even be a dollar-weak, strong, or otherwise.
ok - so Bush is doing deficit spending and that is bad - but it it the only way out of it - but if we continue to do there won’t even be a dollar….
Really - The big O said that the only SHORT term solution is big government. Exactly what he said…. and APC and PJR don’t believe what he said? The tin hats must be covering your ears..
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1611 hrs
Um, yeah, it did. Obama clearly stated that government was the only solution to fixing the economy. He said that the private sector was necessary for the long term, but that more government was the only way to fix it now. I adamantly disagree with that. Government should do some things (like stop mandating that banks offer risky loans and stop bailing out companies that must fail to ever recover) but it is the American people, with their ingenuity, creativity, work ethic, and intelligence who will fix the economy - if only the government would leave us the hell alone.
Yes, it’s been messy, but that’s what capitalism is. It’s like Democracy - the worst form of economy except for the rest of them - but it has also made America what it is today. To abandon capitalism because of a recession is to abandon our way of life and ensure our more rapid decline.
Obama clearly has no faith in the American people to solve our problems. The only path to success open in his mind is for our betters to sweep in and save us.
Posted by Owen on January 08, 2009 at 1620 hrs
No, Owen, the only thing Obama clearly stated was that “only government can provide the short-term boost necessary, ” emphasis on short-term. Only the government has the resources available for this kind of stimulus. Even with the massive amounts of money already given to the banks, they’re still not lending any of it out, choosing instead to mostly sit on it. Where’s the post on how the banks are holding on to taxpayer money and not using it to stimulate the economy?
Obama never said that government was “the only solution to ‘fixing’ the economy.” In fact, he said almost the opposite when he said “we cannot depend on government alone to create jobs or long-term growth.”
The whole “if only government will leave us the hell alone” Reagan boilerplate conveniently ignores the fact that a lot of government programs absolutely played a major role in creating the vast middle class in this country, like the GI Bill, VA and FHA loans, Social Security and others. They’ve worked hand-in-hand with capitalism, not at cross purposes with it. And so it will hopefully be now—hand-in-hand with capitalism. FDR didn’t introduce socialism to this country. He saved capitalism in this country. Obama has a unique opportunity to do much the same thing.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1708 hrs
Just remember, one of the great lies is “I’m from the government, and I’m here to help.”
As always, there are always a significant number of fools who believe that government is a good thing instead of what it really is - a necessary evil.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1711 hrs
And there are always a significant number of fools who forget that the government is, in fact, an extension of us.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1719 hrs
apc is right, Owen. We’ve elected a group of egomaniacal lawyers who, amazingly enough, have difficulty solving problems not solved by either the ego or the law.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1734 hrs
And there are always a significant number of fools who forget that the government is, in fact, an extension of us
True, so long as by “us” you mean major campaign contributors. I don’t deceive myself into thinking that elected officials care about what I think. You see, I haven’t loaded up the campaign coffers. Maybe you pay the shakedown fee - good for you.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 1739 hrs
“Yes, it’s been messy, but that’s what capitalism is.”
Messy how? By allowing investors to be screwed? By having needless disruption o four markets and people’s lives. By enabling a minority to abuse the power of their money—like an oligarchy? By allowing irresponsible investment schemes? By allowing people to make outrageous amounts of money even when their companies take a big giant crap?
I know you are from the south Owen where they don’t make laws, they make suggestions but we the people deserve a system which does not leave families high and dry.
So of you love business the way spoiling parents “love” their kids. Let ‘em do what they want, dote on them, make excuses for them.
Guess what. The American people are tired of this nonsense and voted accordingly. This is now THEIR government.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 2044 hrs
It’s always “their government” even when it is center-right. Isn’t that how you said it worked? Or is it only their government when the government agrees with you?
Posted by Owen on January 08, 2009 at 2050 hrs
Of course OB is right. This is why the Soviet Union has the worlds stromgest economy.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 08, 2009 at 2349 hrs
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