On Thug
This political thug seems to think that the word “thug” is a racial epithet. What do you think?
In this limited case, I agree with him.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 18, 2008 at 2228 hrs
What a joke. Maybe to a dim witted, mentally defcient liberal, it maybe, but to the rest of the people who knew what the hell was going on in those conversations, it doesn’t mean anything racial.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 18, 2008 at 2318 hrs
John, come back from planet Political Correctness. Lee Holloway is a thug, and remains a thug, whether Eggleston wrote it or not. It’s not his skin color; it’s his bad character.
By accusing Eggleston of racism, Rowen reduces the impact of the term to meaningless. Rowen owes Eggleston an apology.
Posted by james wigderson on July 19, 2008 at 0025 hrs
Rowen is like the Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz. He is need of a brain.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2008 at 0108 hrs
No Dan. Unfortunately Jim Rowen is a very smart lefty and well-respected. That’s what makes this false accusation of racism even more outrageous, is that someone like Rowen should know better.
He owes “No Runny Eggs” an apology, and Lee Holloway remains a thug.
Posted by james wigderson on July 19, 2008 at 0146 hrs
Through its common usage in South Eastern Wisconsin political debate “thug” does seem to have transformed into shorthand for African American criminal.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2008 at 0736 hrs
Only in the minds of some lefties.
Posted by Owen on July 19, 2008 at 0739 hrs
Lefties typically don’t use the term.
Can you find a citation of “thug” being applied to any white criminals in the recent local discourse?Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2008 at 0810 hrs
We should stop using the ‘Th**’ word and lose it in some Black Hole.
Posted by Steve Burri on July 19, 2008 at 0819 hrs
Um… 3rd way? I called Rowen a thug in this very post. Is he black? He’s not a criminal, but his behavior in his post is thuggish.
Posted by Owen on July 19, 2008 at 0829 hrs
You know who else is a Thug, Rush Limbaugh
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2008 at 0830 hrs
For other examples:
I used it here to describe a crook whose race is not identified and I didn’t know.
Here I used it to label some union teachers:
http://www.bootsandsabers.com/index.php/weblog/permalink/wigderson_going_private/
Here I used it to describe the white cops who beat up Jude.
http://www.bootsandsabers.com/index.php/weblog/permalink/mccann_on_jude_verdict/
So no… the term “thug” has no racial overtones and to suggest otherwise is both ignorant and insulting.
Posted by Owen on July 19, 2008 at 0834 hrs
Owen you have really lost it. Calling someone like Jim Rowen a thug is beyond the pale. Looks like Sykes is rubbing off on you.
What a disappointment you’ve become.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2008 at 0845 hrs
Yeah, because I really care if you’re disappointed in me
Fact is that Rowen is trying to bully Steve into shutting up by throwing down the race card and pretending that “thug” is a racial epithet. THAT is thuggish behavior.
Posted by Owen on July 19, 2008 at 0850 hrs
Oh yeah, here’s Mayor Barrett using the term “thug” to describe a person of unknown race.
http://badgerblogger.com/?p=5305
I guess the use of the term is not solely a right-wing thing.
Posted by Owen on July 19, 2008 at 0856 hrs
Through its common usage in South Eastern Wisconsin political debate “thug” does seem to have transformed into shorthand for African American criminal
But colloquial use does NOT change the definition of the term.
Besides, 3Way, it’s only due to a lack of white “thugs” (real or percieved) in SE Wisconsin for the last few years. But certainly, the very white Al Capone qualifies, as did a number of union “business agents” of yore.
More recently, Al Gore’s FireFightersUnion boyzzz beat the crap out of a pro-life demonstrator in DePere—an example of “thuggery” by white folks.
Posted by dad29 on July 19, 2008 at 0905 hrs
Now I get it.
At first I thought !WOW! Jim Rowen is a thug.
How can that be?
It is like how we used to call ourselves “polacks” when we were kids, Right.
And how some black comedians refer to themselves and their race.
Now I get it Owan, just recognizing a fellow traveler.
Clever?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2008 at 0930 hrs
There goes 3rd way, pjr and Keith, the mighty liberals, defending the indefencible. If a liberal acts like a thug, they defend them, no matter how silly they look. Just keep on drinking the Kool Aide Just waiting for Folkbum to chime in.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2008 at 0935 hrs
Dan,
Typically clueless.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2008 at 0937 hrs
Newspeak
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, searchNewspeak is a fictional language in George Orwell’s novel Nineteen Eighty-Four. In the novel, it is described as being “the only language in the world whose vocabulary gets smaller every year.” Orwell included an essay about it in the form of an appendix[1] in which the basic principles of the language are explained. Newspeak is closely based on English but has a greatly reduced and simplified vocabulary and grammar. This suits the totalitarian regime of the Party, whose aim is to make any alternative thinking (“thoughtcrime” (crimethink, in the newest edition of Newspeak)) or speech impossible by removing any words or possible constructs which describe the ideas of freedom, rebellion and so on. One character says admiringly of the shrinking volume of the new dictionary: “It’s a beautiful thing, the destruction of words.”
The Newspeak term for the English language is Oldspeak. Oldspeak was intended to have been completely eclipsed by Newspeak before 2050.
The genesis of Newspeak can be found in the constructed language Basic English, which Orwell promoted from 1942 to 1944 before emphatically rejecting it in his essay “Politics and the English Language”.[2] In this paper he laments the quality of the English of his day, citing examples of dying metaphors, pretentious diction or rhetoric, and meaningless words — all of which contribute to fuzzy ideas and a lack of logical thinking. Towards the end of this essay, having argued his case, Orwell muses:
“ I said earlier that the decadence of our language is probably curable. Those who deny this would argue, if they produced an argument at all, that language merely reflects existing social conditions, and that we cannot influence its development by any direct tinkering with words or constructions. ”Thus forcing the use of Newspeak, according to Orwell, describes a deliberate intent to exploit this degeneration with the aim of oppressing its speakers.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2008 at 0940 hrs
I agree that Rowen’s claim that Steve played the race card here is ridiculous.
I also agree that the term Thug does not have ‘racial overtones.
I further agree that Rowen owes Steve an apology.
And I am pretty sure he’s not going to give one.
But it’s good to call him out on it.
And Keith saying that conservatives have cheapened political discourse is akin to Lee Holloway calling someone a thug.
Posted by Fraley on July 19, 2008 at 1005 hrs
Saying that conservatives have cheapened political discourse is akin to Brian Fraley calling someone a slug.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2008 at 1015 hrs
Owen, it’s not like Charley, Mark and a host of conservative bloggers have not called for the shutting down of this thing or another. On any given day, Sykes will use the term moonbat, tin foil hat wearer or any other invective that comes into mind.
The very idea that anyone owes someone like Steve who uses insults and slurs with regularity, especially a guy with the class and civility of Jim Rowen—is just weird and a howler. The fact that Fraley brings this up is even more laughable.
You guys have got to grow some skin. If yo can’t take it then don’t dish it out. That’s the ethos here in Wisconsin Owen.
Talk about conduct unbecoming an officer.
That’s it for me. I’ll let the rest of you just prove me right, because I know you can’t help yourselves.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2008 at 1055 hrs
“You guys have got to grow some skin. If yo can’t take it then don’t dish it out.”
As a person who uses the word “thug” to describe criminals and boorish behavior, I certainly am not offened. I think’s kind of funny actually that a liberal democrat would even bring this up. Considering he has no clue about the context and how it started, I find his behavior a bit crazy and cynical.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2008 at 1144 hrs
When I looked at this thread, I thought, it was nice to see Jim write about something other than SEWRPC or choo-choo trains. But, I’m lost as to why this is a story at all though. As to the definition. I don’t personally attach it to race, nor assume that is the usage, but obviously some people in here do. I have missed anywhere in the discussion what the politically correct definition of thug is. But it seems to be inferred that it no longer means bully, but now it means a bully or criminal of African-American descent. If that is the case, would not Holloway be a Thug by either definition?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2008 at 1555 hrs
FYI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee - the origin of the word thug.
Posted by Marcus Aurelius on July 19, 2008 at 1957 hrs
Interjection here from the su’thin flank….aka Tennessee. We have a well known black blogger in Memphis who frequently uses the word “thug”, no matter what color skin the thug sports, including the Memphis mayor, who also happens to be black. (Usually, covering a stripe of yellow. Most thugs, no matter their skin tone are cowards deep down.)
Just my 2 cents.
Posted by Kate on July 19, 2008 at 2130 hrs
If it the word “thug” is so racist, why does this guy have this tattoed on his back:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0718081mugs6.html
Hey Keith, do I get an apology?Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 20, 2008 at 0357 hrs
Hey Dan, unless that’s Jim Rowen’s back what do I have to apologize for?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 20, 2008 at 1605 hrs
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