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Thursday, July 24, 2008

Obama Decides Not to See Wounded Soldiers

Sen. Barack Obama scrapped plans to visit wounded members of the armed forces in Germany as part of his overseas trip, a decision his campaign said was made because the Democratic presidential candidate thought it would be inappropriate on a campaign-funded journey.

A campaign adviser said the U.S. military saw the visit as a campaign stop.

“We learned from the Pentagon last night that the visit would be viewed instead as a campaign event,” the adviser, retired Air Force Maj. Gen. Scott Gration, said in a statement. “Senator Obama did not want to have a trip to see our wounded warriors perveived as a campaign event when his visit was to show his appreciation for our troops and decided instead not to go.”

Sen. John McCain’s presidential campaign immediately criticized the move.

“Barack Obama is wrong. It is never inappropriate to visit our men and women in the military,” said Brian Rogers, a spokesman for the Republican contender.

Obama could have actually left the press outside and spent a little time with the troops, but I guess that was too much to ask.

(58) Comments

Posted by Owen at 2059 hrs

Foreign Affairs + Military + Politics + Politics - General

Of course the McCain campaign will always say that whatever Obama didn’t do, he should have - and vice versa. No surprise there.

Would you have defended Obama visiting the troops if McCain had criticized it as an inappropriate politically motivated move?
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 24, 2008 at 2233 hrs

So Obama decides it would be inappropriate to visit wounded soldiers-who can vote-on a campaign trip to Germany, but perfectly fine to speak to the German citizens-who can’t vote. What am I missing in his logic?
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 0022 hrs

I think Obama just lost any chance of getting respect of the troops today. Not that he was going get much in the first place, but this just seals it.
As McCain says, it never inappropriate to visit injured troops. I guess the lack of a photo op probably was the real reason why he didn’t visit, that or he just doesn’t care about them.
To Ben, I highly doubt it McCain would critize Obama for visiting the troops, but if he did, hell, yes I would critize McCain.
And good points, justamom.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 0030 hrs

Oh, c’mon guys, is this all you got? You’re grasping at straws. Typical right-wing rhetoric.

(/just parroting what the lefties say in any thread that criticizes the Obamessiah )
Posted by Fuzz on July 25, 2008 at 0430 hrs

Yeah it would have been nice if Obama had visited the troops, but what it ultimately comes down to is how both voted when it comes to voting for measures that support the troops on health care and other post deployment issues. McCain many more times voted against the interest of the troops. That is what the troops will care about.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 0713 hrs

He visits the troops and this post is complaining that he’s using them as props in a campaign.

Tell me I’m wrong.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 0737 hrs

You’re wrong. For evidence, notice that I did not accuse Obama of using the troops as props when he was playing basketball with them in Afghanistan.
Posted by Owen on July 25, 2008 at 0829 hrs

If Obama had visited the troops, the header for this post would have been “Obama ignores Pentagon, uses wounded warriors as cheap campaign trick.”
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 0836 hrs

I missed your comment at #7, Owen, before I put mine in. The fact that the Pentagon would view it as a campaign stunt, and told him so ahead of time, makes all the difference in the world between this and the basketball game in Afghanistan.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 0842 hrs

It wasn’t the Pentagon that said he shouldn’t go it was one of BHO’s advisors, who happens to be retired military.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 0856 hrs

Jesus H. Christ already. If he had visited as planned you’d all be complaining that he shouldn’t have. And then when he doesn’t visit, you complain that there’s never a wrong time to visit wounded soldiers.

I think you’re all completely full of it.

Why not discuss the actual policy and ideological differences you have with the man instead of throwing trumped up BS and manufactured outrage around?
Posted by scott on July 25, 2008 at 0857 hrs

Yeah it would have been nice if Obama had visited the troops, but what it ultimately comes down to is how both voted when it comes to voting for measures that support the troops on health care and other post deployment issues. McCain many more times voted against the interest of the troops. That is what the troops will care about.

Nice try. Largely due to other provisions in those bills put in by the democrats. But, it allows one to say exactly what you did. Disengenuous?
Posted by jimi on July 25, 2008 at 1035 hrs

How about the bill that would have given vets more money to go to college upon their return? How did John “I love those troops!” McCain vote on that one?
Posted by scott on July 25, 2008 at 1040 hrs

There were real concerns expressed by the Pentagon about that bill - namely, that it only required a 3 year commitment. Considering it takes many months to get a person combat ready and years to recoup the investment, the Pentagon worried that too many people would resign after 3 years, take the college money, and run without the military ever having gotten the value out of them.

Are you seriously going to ape this party line? For someone who argues in the nuances, you’re acting remarkably ignorant on this one.
Posted by Owen on July 25, 2008 at 1046 hrs

Sorry, no. You can either make blog posts about how Obama snubs wounded soldiers, or you can make thoughtful, level-headed arguments that avoid simplistic partisan hackery—you can’t do both.
Posted by scott on July 25, 2008 at 1105 hrs

scott, you are the that is full of it. Though I am glad you are now in the business of being a mind reader. If Obama went to visit the troops in the hospital, no one would have complained, with the exception if he used it as a campaign stunt and brought in a bunch of cameras, TV anchors etc. If he went with a small entourage and a a photographer, I would say great, but now he has pissed off the troops, the one’s he may be commanding in 5 months.
The guy had had the opportunity to show leadership and he failed again.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 1108 hrs

Anyone who believes you, Dan, is deluded. If you believe it yourself, you’re self-deluded.
Posted by scott on July 25, 2008 at 1112 hrs

Owen, your post suggests that you believe Obama decided not to see the wounded troops because he’s indifferent to their situation and simply doesn’t care about them. Do you really really think this? Or, despite your simplistic editorializing, would you reluctantly agree that it was certainly a very difficult decision—meet with them and you’re attacked as being opportunistic; don’t meet them and you’re attacked as being callous?
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 1113 hrs

NYTexan,

I don’t think Obama is indifferent to the troops. I think that Obama prioritized his campaign and ambitions above them.

For example, if he had gone in without the press and spent a little time with them, don’t you think that the troops would have appreciated that? Given the fact that he may be POTUS in a few months, I think they would have even if they don’t support Obama. And if people attacked him for it, so what? What’s more important?
Posted by Owen on July 25, 2008 at 1130 hrs

In other words… visiting the troops shouldn’t be about Obama. It should be about the troops.
Posted by Owen on July 25, 2008 at 1131 hrs

Sorry haters…It was The pentagon who canceled the tour!!

Hate it when facts get in the way of a good argument!!

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/07/pentagon-tells- obama-not-to-vi.html
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 1147 hrs

Sorry haters…It was The pentagon who canceled the tour!!

Where are your precious facts that support this? According to your link, it was canceled after the Pentagon said he shouldn’t come… not he can’t come.

Hate it when facts get in the way of a good argument!!

Irony anyone?
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 1154 hrs

So he should go against what the pentagon says…in this case.
Posted by scott on July 25, 2008 at 1155 hrs

So he should go against what the pentagon says…in this case.

I don’t know, and I don’t really care. He chose to cancel based on feedback from the Pentagon. To say “Facts Facts Facts, the Pentagon canceled it, Facts Facts Facts” is extremely disingenuous, and to quote a very respected regular here, “deluded and self-deluded”.

There were in fact a number of options, and Obama chose one, and some people disagree with it. Boo Hoo.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 1250 hrs

To say “Facts Facts Facts, the Pentagon canceled it, Facts Facts Facts” is extremely disingenuous,

I have no idea what you’re getting at whatsoever.
Posted by scott on July 25, 2008 at 1257 hrs

Get that feeling a lot here, I’m sure.

Anyway, my reply was to Frans until you jumped into it. I assumed your #23 was in reply to my #22. If not, then ignore #24 and then #25, and then this one.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 1300 hrs

Wow, scott, calling me deluded. Oh the irony coming from you who is one of the biggest BDS suffers and one of the biggest BS’ers in my lifetime.
He is a U.S. senator. If he really wanted to go, he could have. If he can’t stand up to the military brass, then who is he going to stand up to. He was the one made the decesion not to visit the injured troops.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 1303 hrs

I have heard the Pentagon had something to say about Obama not visiting, but it was cameras and his cheerleaders (aka the press) tagging along the Pentagon did not like.

Some years ago W was criticized for not visiting with the families of fallen soldiers. Well, fact is, he was, just there were no stories about the visits and they certainly were not recorded or thrust into the national attention via the media (individual families may have noted such visits but there was no policy of publicizing them). Of course if the administration was publicizing the visits the screaming about it would be deafening. Much to the credit of those who attempted to make political hay with that argument they quickly figured it out and stopped pushing it.

Obama should have told his cheerleading section to stay away and visited those soldiers, after all those soldiers may have to follow his orders to run-away or to attack Pakistan.
Posted by Marcus Aurelius on July 25, 2008 at 1310 hrs

The point remains that the right-wing would hammer him on this regardless of what he did.

Where are your precious facts that support this? According to your link, it was canceled after the Pentagon said he shouldn’t come… not he can’t come.

If he had gone after the Pentagon asked him not to go, he’d have been excoriated for not being sensitive to the wishes of the people in uniform who knew what was going on. Now that he’s followed their perfectly reasonable request, he’s being excoriated for not being sensitive to the troops.

The bottom line is that the right is desparate, and so is the McCain campaign. That crack the other day about Obama being willing to “lose a war in order to win a campaign” is despicable and beneath the office that Senator McCain holds.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 1314 hrs

From ABC news:“We learned a few days ago of the interest in Sen. Obama going to Landsthul and all we did was simply remind people just to remember our longstanding guidance with respect to policital campaigns in an election year,” Whitman said, “And remind them that Sen. Obama is a sitting senator or has an interest and is welcome to visit an installation, to include something like Landstuhl, but his visit would need to be done consistent with a visit as a sitting senator.”

However Whitman noted that officials at Landstuhl were aware of DOD’s long-standing guidelines to distinguish between the visit of a sitting senator and a visit under the auspices of a political campaign.

“I think the issue here is you are both a sitting senator and a political candidate. When you are doing things like a visit to Landstuhl you need to do it in your sitting capacity or you have to do it within the restrictions that apply to any other candidate that might be running for office that is not a sitting senator,” he said, “So you have to be able to draw those distinctions. Generally speaking the military tries very hard not to get involved in political campaigns.”

So, he could have gone as a senator but not campaign. So who is deluded scott? Me thinks you are, along with Obama.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 1315 hrs

Oh for cryin’ out loud, Dan. Do you honestly think at this point it’s even remotely possible to separate the Senator from the campaign. Be realistic.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 1317 hrs

Anyway you look at this trip it is primarily campaign oriented. He is flying on his own plane with 50 reporters on board. The pentagon told him not to take the campaign to Rammstein, so he didn’t. Was he supposed to leave all the reporters in Berlin and tell them to find their own way home?
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 1324 hrs

You mean to say, 3rd Way, Obama could not have choppered out to visit the airbase on the hospital or just a bit?

I guess his cheerleaders would have died in the couple of hours w/o his presence.
Posted by Marcus Aurelius on July 25, 2008 at 1339 hrs

He could told the press to go shopping or take a break. He could have gone quietly. You think the press is going to trespass on military grounds? I thnk the M.P.‘s can hold back a horde of reporters
President Bush has visited the troops in the hospital manytimes and he didn’t make it polictal. The military is very good in making the arrangements- they do it all the time.
Again, he made the choice not to go. He tried to make it political and the military told him no.
Seriously, guys, stop drinking the Kool Aide. He’s probably going to win, but you look so pathetic defending the guy when he screws up.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 1346 hrs

Have you ever been on a tour with an itinerary Marcus? If you throw one event out of whack everything else for that day gets all screwed up.

Obama probably should have put on a flight suit and parachuted out of the plane as it passed over Rammstein on it’s way to Paris. Then he could have flown into Paris on fighter jet to catch up with the campaign.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 1350 hrs

This whole thing is disingenuous, manufactured, talking-point bullshit.
Posted by scott on July 25, 2008 at 1406 hrs

I think this campaign has reached the point were I want to plug my ears and not pay any attention until mid october. The only thing we are going to get from the right from here on is disingenuous, manufactured, talking-point bullshit.

Take a look at the substance of Owen’s last three posts on the subject: symbols on a plane, flyer design and now criticism of compliance with the Pentagon’s request. It is silly and petty.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 1418 hrs

Since you lost the arguement, scott,, all you can come up with that untelligent comment, scott? How insightful..
3rd way, it was already planned, so your arguement is shot down. The military was prepared for him because Obama or his campaign made arragnements for him to visit. They made accomadations for the staff and press. But since his campaign staff and the press were not allowed in, he decided not to go. He could have gone with his senate staffers and the video and pictures would have been shot by the military staffers.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 1422 hrs

Re: 36 & 37…

The get the fuck out and don’t let the router hit you in the ass on the way. Seriously, you’re complaining about trolling on a blog that is politically opposed to your viewpoints. Grow the fuck up, man up, and leave.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 1423 hrs

Summary so far.

Y’all: We’re outraged over the Democrat/lefty for taking action “A” when “B” would clearly have been in order.

Us: Let’s be honest here: You’d have been outraged over B, also, because you don’t like Democrats/lefties.

Y’all: Not true!

Us: Way, way true.
Posted by scott on July 25, 2008 at 1427 hrs

This whole thing is disingenuous, manufactured, talking-point bullshit.

Yes, the same manufactured bullshit that comes from both sides each and every time there is a campaign:

G. H.W. Bush was “out of touch.”
G.W. used to be a coke-head alcoholic.
Gore was too boring/reserved.
Kerry flip flopped.
McCain is old.
Obama hates America.
Posted by Fuzz on July 25, 2008 at 1427 hrs

G.W. did used to be a coke-head alcoholic.

Gore wasn’t said to be boring—he was boring. What was said about him is that he was a serial liar who needed mental health treatment.

All politicians flip flop. Some more than others. And there are some who should do it more than they do.

McCain is old.
Posted by scott on July 25, 2008 at 1431 hrs

This whole thing is disingenuous, manufactured, talking-point bullshit.

Like this?

How about the bill that would have given vets more money to go to college upon their return? How did John “I love those troops!” McCain vote on that one?
Posted by Owen on July 25, 2008 at 1436 hrs

You left some out:

H.W. was out of touch.

Gore is a maniacal liar.

Obama does hate America.
Posted by Fuzz on July 25, 2008 at 1437 hrs

You caught on! Exactly like that, yes. Only worse, frankly.
Posted by scott on July 25, 2008 at 1437 hrs

I am plenty grown the fuck up asshole.

I will leave when the discourse denegrates to the point of arguing about a candidates choice of graphic design. This place is usually somewhere you can find a thoughtful debate. But, it is interesting how when the content of Owen’s posts slips into the petty talking point drivel the quality of the commenting slides right along with it (see comment 39).
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 1446 hrs

I am plenty grown the fuck up asshole.

My apologies. Act your fucking age then asshole.

There, all better.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 1448 hrs

Oh this is just fun to watch…

Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 1540 hrs

Us: Let’s be honest here: You’d have been outraged over B, also, because you don’t like Democrats/lefties.
That is so full of crap, scott.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 1558 hrs

It’s really not, Dan. I believe it wholeheartedly. I believe it so much it makes me giggle to see people who purport to be intellectually honest sit there and deny it.
Posted by scott on July 25, 2008 at 1601 hrs

Cool. So if I make a claim about someone, believe in it wholeheartedly, and giggle a lot…it becomes true!
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 1608 hrs

Works for your man in the White House!
Posted by scott on July 25, 2008 at 1613 hrs

Never would have guessed he was your role model.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 1618 hrs

Yep, we’re well past #35.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 1620 hrs

So if I make a claim about someone, believe in it wholeheartedly

That’s his bread and butter. And if someone asks for some facts, he responds with “I’m not anyone’s google-bitch”. That’s a compassionate liberal for you.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 2010 hrs

What’s even worse, Obama and is campaign tried to blame the military for his screw up. Again, it shows what he thinks about the military.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 25, 2008 at 2143 hrs

Did I ever say I wasn’t someone’s google bitch, Jason? Prove it.

(What, you don’t feel like doing the search and providing the link for something that you and I should both know full well? Imagine!)
Posted by scott on July 26, 2008 at 2129 hrs

Oh ouch, that stings. I guess I should copy from the master’s playbook and “unlink” from the thread now in defeat. Right?
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 27, 2008 at 1140 hrs

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Obama Decides Not to See Wounded Soldiers

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