Neumann vs. Walker
So, what does everybody think about Mark Neumann and Scott Walker? Both seem to be good guys, both from the same part of the state, both conservative. Who do you prefer? And without being asswipe-ish, why?
Dems, too. Which would you rather have your candidate run against? (Same non-asswipe-ish rules apply to you, too)
Tags: wisconsin, politics
Walker is the only politician I have faith in. He has fought the good fight against a stacked deck. He walks the walk.
Neumann has been absent without leave and I hope he gets crushed like a bug in the primary. Neumann talks the talk and he has violated your no ass-wipe rule by running.
BTW, I voted for him and put my money where my mouth is when he ran against Russ. I wish he would have won. Running for Gov. right now is the move of a supreme jerk.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 02, 2009 at 2255 hrsDo you think that this primary can actually help either candidate? Remember how McCain had the nomination locked up and we didn’t hear about him for a couple months while we watched the endless Obama/Clinton primary?
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 02, 2009 at 2258 hrsOn the fence. Walker has done well for Milwaukee County. On the other hand I do like the fact Neumann hasn’t been a career politician. I think those outside experiences in the real world are invaluable.
Frankly I don’t want to see Walker lose/leave his post as County Exec. Just as Scott Klug was the only GOP candidate who could ever hold down that Madison congressional district book-ended by Kastenmeier and Tammy Baldwin, Scott Walker will be the only GOP county exec we will ever have. Once he’s out, Lee Holloway’s son or the like will take over and the County will really go to hell fast.
So I guess I want Neumann because I’d like to see Walker stay in the job he has.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 02, 2009 at 2322 hrsObviously a competitive primary in 2002 didn’t hurt Jim Doyle’s chances in the general election, and probably helped by focusing multiple campaign operations against incumbent governor McCallum. Likewise, Barack Obama was aided in the general election campaign by the fact he had already run a 50 (57?) state primary battle against Clinton, which allowed him to collect volunteers, donors and a ground game in every state.
Simply put, as long as the candidates focus their energy and resources on the disastrous condition of our state under Governor Doyle and the Democratic Party in control of the state legislature rather than attacking each other, this primary will end up being good for the Republican Party. It brings additional voters, donors and volunteers into the process, and it ensures the widest variety of ideas are being discussed.
For example, Mark Neumann is right when he says Republicans need to have a solid message on issues like education and the environment; it can’t just be all about taxes. Likewise, Scott Walker’s ability to bring moderates and independents to his side in Milwaukee County for three straight elections, is an asset to the Party that needs to be talked about, because Republicans have too often ignored Milwaukee and written off their chances to win there. Walker’s successes have proven the folly of that strategy.
Additionally, in my opinion the debate over which experience matters most—government or private sector—is a debate worth having.
To be clear, I support Scott Walker in this race and have contributed to his campaign, but I do have a problem with the entitlement mentality that sometimes pervades Republican thinking. Just because you graciously bowed out last time, does not give you the right to expect the nomination the next time around. We saw this with Senator McCain last year, and with many other candidates over the years as well.
You have to earn it, and I have no doubt Scott Walker will earn the nomination and be a much better candidate in November for having been tested by a savvy and proven campaigner like Mark Nuemann.
And John, Mark Nuemann hasn’t been AWOL, he’s been in the business world creating jobs and adding to our economy…
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 02, 2009 at 2340 hrsDid the Walker / Green primary help either candidate? I doubt it.
Also, when McCain locked up the GOP nomination, he did so in the shadow of dueling minorities - the female versus the African American. Media was in love with the female vs. racial minority story. If Doyle runs again he offers no compelling story, IMHO, at least by those standards.
On balance, my preference is Walker. He ran four years ago, so he learned lessons from that campaign (Reagan ran in ‘76 before winning in ‘80), I assume he has a better, stronger team than he did four years ago, he has better name recognition because of his previous campaign, and his stock never fell over the course of the 2006 campaign. I was a Mark Green supporter in the primary, but would have had no reservations at all pulling the lever for Walker had he won the nomination in the last election cycle. And he has executive experience being County Exec of the largest county in the state.
What is frustrating to me is the likelihood that nobody from our party will challenge our U.S. Senator, yet we’ve got multiple candidates for governor. It’s like 2006 all over again. I know, Congressman Neumann can say “been there, done that, got the t-shirt” but I fail to see the logic in challenging Walker for the guv nomination.
I’m excited at the prospect of Governor Scott Walker. Mark Neumann? Not so much. Not that I have anything against him (that I’m aware of), but I’m just not fired up about Mark Neumann for Governor.
Enthusiasm matters.
Posted by Josh Schroeder on July 02, 2009 at 2347 hrsI think Scott Walker would be unbeatable, especially if Doyle runs again. His record is outstanding and he could win Milwaukee County. His coattails, especially outstate, could swing the assembly and/or senate back to GOP control. I don’t trust Mark Neumann because of his love affair with ethanol. He’s kind of the Newt Gingrich of Wisconsin politics.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 03, 2009 at 0006 hrsFirst, I love how John Galt states that Neumann is an ass-wipe basically for daring to run against Scott Walker. As Troy mentioned, Republicans have this primogenital mentality that someone automatically becomes first in line by running and losing previously. It’s like the GOP never bothers to think that there might be reason the individual lost the first time.
Anyway, to the question at hand…
Walker’s strength is a dedicated base of support in southeast Wisconsin and in Milwaukee County, a place where the GOP’s showing is historically uneven. That counts for something.
Walker’s weakness is a somewhat controversial record that would allow me to sketch out a dozen different negative ads in less than 30 minutes that would all be effective.
Neumann’s strength is a diversity of life experience - schoolteacher, business owner, Congressman. Private sector experience is something that the GOP always talks about wanting historically - although with its support of guys like Walker/Gard/Huebsch, maybe that’s changing.
Neumann’s weakness is being out of the public eye for over a decade, and this sort of passive, Fred Thompson-ish approach he seems to be taking towards running thus far. If you’re in, you’re in. Don’t talk about being in and then wait six months to really get in.
Republicans need this race to be about the Democratic budget to have a fighting shot at winning. Conservatives will be motivated by their desire to remove a Democratic governor. They’ll be equally motivated by Neumann, Walker, or a warm pile of dog crap. In that sense, they’ll be just like the ‘04 Democrats or the ‘94 Republicans.
So provided that he gets in and really works, I think Neumann is clearly the better option, if only because he’s a much smaller and harder to hit target than Walker. A Walker candidacy is an invitation for Democrats and 527s to completely distract voters with a bunch of scare talk about how Scott Walker ran Milwaukee County clear into the ground.
And once that happens, this race is a total toss-up. It’s the guy who screwed up Wisconsin against the guy who screwed up Milwaukee County. I’m just not sure why the GOP would want to take that risk.
(Of course, if Doyle pulls a late game bait-and-switch with a guy like Ron Kind, then God help the GOP. Beating a popular, articulate, handsome, outstate Congressman is not going to happen with either of these guys.)
Posted by Recess Supervisor on July 03, 2009 at 0113 hrsAlthough I am supporting Walker, I do hope there will be an enthusiastic (and low-cost) primary, where they can flesh the issues out in preparation for the winner to go up against Gov. Doyle.
The GOP—both national and state—need to get their act together and help articulate a platform (no RINOs needed), instead of just begging for money.
A Walker candidacy is an invitation for Democrats and 527s to completely distract voters with a bunch of scare talk about how Scott Walker ran Milwaukee County clear into the ground.
And another Diamond Jim candidacy SHOULD BE an invitation for the GOP and *gag* 527s *gag* to completely educate voters with a bunch of facts about how Jim Doyle and the state Dems ran the state of Wisconsin clear into the ground.
(Of course, if Doyle pulls a late game bait-and-switch with a guy like Ron Kind, then God help the GOP. Beating a popular, articulate, handsome, outstate Congressman is not going to happen with either of these guys.)
And if Diamond Jim pulls this bait-and-switch, everyone will know that (a) even HE knows this budget is a stinker, and (b) he continues to refuse to OWN these budgets.
Posted by hsgbdmama on July 03, 2009 at 0727 hrsI have two reservations about Neumann so far. First—is his wife going to act like his “minder” again, showing up everywhere, everytime N. is making an appearance? That’s sort of…..odd.
Second, Neumann is already pandering with his support of ethanol, despite the overwhelming evidence that it is not only worse as a fuel, but drives up the cost of corn (and other grains.) This is not ‘odd;’ it’s just plain wrong.
Posted by dad29 on July 03, 2009 at 0825 hrsI don’t think the GOP will have problems against Doyle or Ron Kind if they run a good campaign. This budget now has 18-months of time to run bad PR against the Democrats as people pay all these massive new taxes and user fees.
With a bad economy likely to linger for another year at least, I think many people will vote with their wallets against the Democrats. Even some of the State employees might stray as there will be more furloughs and layoffs to come.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 03, 2009 at 1007 hrsWalker hands down. Neuman might be an actually conservative, but we all know Walker is. And one of the few I can say that about confidently. We vote so many “conservatives” into office, (even ones like Ryan, whom we are seem confident are conservative) who then go native and vote for Trillions in government bailouts or pile on the pork.
Conservative ideals win votes. Conservative actions win votes….failing to deliver on your promises like 90 percent of the republican politicians gets you the government we have today.
At least when a liberal screws taxpayers or votes to push us further down the path to socialism, they are delivering on their election promises.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 03, 2009 at 1045 hrsWOW… From what I have read in the comments, it’s all wrapped up.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 03, 2009 at 1046 hrsRS says:
First, I love how John Galt states that Neumann is an ass-wipe basically for daring to run against Scott Walker. As Troy mentioned, Republicans have this primogenital mentality that someone automatically becomes first in line by running and losing previously.
That may be what you think but that is not what I said or think. I see Neumann as one of those guys on a project, at work, or charitable work, who shows up when the heavy lifting, grunt work, or day to day battles are concluding and then wants to take over the project. That is not leadership, it is opportunism for self interest, aka ass-wipe-ish.
Walker has carried the banner through thick and thin while Neumann has been who knows where. If Alberta Darling, Ted Kanavas or someone else who is engaged in the battle, by all means run for Gov. if you want to.
As far a private sector work goes, Doyle was an attorney. Whoop-de-do. A lot of good that did for WI. A Vet would be a plus too but in the last 4 Presidential elections the vet lost to the non vet or non combat vet. Not a big plus anymore.
I am under no illusion that any future race under the Rep. moniker, isn’t going to be a very tough uphill battle. The kind Walker is fighting and occasionally winning.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 03, 2009 at 1151 hrsI’d like to see a Walker for Gov., Neumann for Lt. Gov. ticket.
I think Walker would be better able to handle the upcoming nastiness and dirty tricks. Hopefully the campaign will be better prepared this time.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 03, 2009 at 1202 hrsI am supporting Walker. I was on the fence until I saw the campaign staff Walker has lined up this time around. He’s going to be extremely competitive (against Doyle, not Neumann) and I suspect if the primary isn’t especially brutal, will have a better shot against Doyle.
Am I the only one questioning what Neumann’s motivation is in running? He’s the real deal and I have nothing but respect for what he’s done in the past, but why does he feel the need to run this time? Walker is a qualified candidate, he’s proven that he’s a real conservative and the GOP machine, both money and people, are lining up behind him. At this point, why does Neumann want in?
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 03, 2009 at 1258 hrsAt this point, why does Neumann want in? Maybe because the housing boom is over and his millions are now in the bank…time for retirement planning?
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 03, 2009 at 1557 hrsI like Scott Walker over Mark Neumann. Walker is and active officer holder with current credentials who has had a consistent conservative message on lower taxes and responsibility on government. Newmann has been out of the public eye and would need to build name recognition, plus Neumann will run to the middle when campaigning as that’s what he did last time he ran.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 03, 2009 at 2201 hrsCate:
You were on the fence until you saw the campaign staff that Walker lined up? Keith Gilkes clinched it for you? For real?
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 03, 2009 at 2309 hrsI will vote for either man who wins the nomination. Neumann almost beat the disgusting, anti-freedom Feingold in 1992 and since he’s done very well at a statewide race, I’m inclined to vote for Newman in the primary, but I will definitely support the Republican nominee, whoever that might be.
We need to dump Doyle, or it may end up being Lawton. I don’t care, the Dem lock on state government needs to end.
Taxes are too high and Doyle/Lawton are freedom haters. Example: Carry-conceal arms by freedom lovers throughout this formerly great state.
Agreed? Then support whichever man wins the R nomination.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 04, 2009 at 0712 hrsBefore I begin, I have to offer RS a class in Milwaukee County History 212. The short version is, multiple landmines were laid in the 1990s up until 2002, with the pension scandal merely the backbreaking straw. Had F. Thomas Ament continued as County Executive, or the nobodys the left has put up against Walker won, instead of California being the most fiscally-dysfunctional unit of government, Milwaukee County would be, as Walker has never had a majority of the County Board with him. However, since that won’t fit on a bumper sticker, the perception that RS has bought into will be extremely hard to overcome outstate.
To be honest, Neumann has a similar problem with the outstate crowd as he is also a Southeast Wisconsin “broad-base” conservative. Worse, he has been completely out of the public eye between November 1998 and a couple months ago. Do note I didn’t say “out of politics”, but “out of the public eye”.
Both Walker and Neumann won in traditionally-Democratic areas back in their days. The bad news for Neumann is that it took him three tries to win his Congressional seat, and even his re-election was a tooth-and-nail battle. Paul Ryan took that district and made it a safe-Republican one.
Ultimately, that factor of being able to appeal to non-conservatives while not losing one’s conservative roots is why I support Walker.
Posted by steveegg on July 04, 2009 at 0819 hrsI’ll be voting Walker. He’s demonstrated a backbone and I like the way he goes on the honest offensive to support his decisions and proposals instead of playing appeasement and attrition.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 04, 2009 at 0856 hrsThe choice here is clear: Walker is a far superior candidate. He has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt his prowess as an administrator in reversing government bloat and misdeeds (ahem, Ament and the Common Council), he remains rock-ribbed on the principle of freezing tax rates (and would endeavor to lower them as much as possible; understanding the principle that lower taxes encourages economic growth), and he has made the hard choices neededd to improve the bottom line of Milwaukee County, despite the wails of the government addicted left (see County Parks budget cut cries that amounted to nothing).
Neumann, on the other hand, seems to be in love with the Ethanal lobby (arguments against in earlier posts), and is in favor of Light Rail (insert projectile vomiting emoticon here).
I’ll be voting Walker - and if I mimic the Dems, I’ll be doing so early and often.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 04, 2009 at 1102 hrs@steveegg: I don’t need the history lesson, but thanks. Whether Milwaukee County would have been better or worse off without Walker is irrelevant. What matters is that, like any executive, Walker’s got a bunch of stuff that opponents can have a field day with. So does Doyle, for that matter. And as you mention, what matters is how this will all get spun outstate.
To that end, the kinds of negative ads that will be cut on Walker will be a lot more dramatic than anything Walker can offer in response. In terms of emotional appeal, “Scott Walker starved poor black kids” (or whatever other hyperbolic stuff that OWN or GWC comes up with) is way stronger than “Scott Walker held the line on taxes.” Sadly, holding the line on taxes is boring.
Doyle/Walker would be the most overtly negative race Wisconsin has ever seen, because both candidates are better off talking about their opponent’s weaknesses than their own strengths.
@tbones05: Every candidate runs to the middle in a general election if they want to win. If Walker’s the nominee, he’ll do it too. Running to the middle in a general is smart politics because voters on the extremes don’t have anywhere else to go.
Either Neumann or Walker will have conservative support locked up, and as I mentioned earlier, this race needs to be focused on the Dem budget for the GOP to win. So bearing in mind that you have to win this race in the middle, I’m still at a loss why the GOP would want to put forward a candidate like Walker who is so unfailingly easy to attack. I get why many of you like Walker. I’m not saying you shouldn’t. I’m just asking you why you think it’s smart politics to get behind someone who is such an easy target in a race where you need people to focus on the other team.If you want this race to be about the Democrats, you want to run the blankest, cleanest slate as possible on your own side. Scott Walker is anything but, simply by virtue of governing Milwaukee County for as long as he has. In my mind, a candidate with a lengthy and current record is the last thing you’d ideally want in this political environment.
Posted by Recess Supervisor on July 04, 2009 at 1353 hrsOh, and Paul Ryan didn’t make the 1st CD a safe Republican district nearly as much as the 2001 redistricting process. Pretty nifty how Paul Ryan got to keep Janesville, but Tammy Baldwin was willing to sweep in underneath and take all of Beloit off his hands. And then he managed to score a whole bunch of Waukesha County and all of the white, blue collar suburbs in southern Milwaukee County as a result of Wisconsin losing a seat in the House.
Our eight remaining congressmen did a fine job of making those House seats as uncompetitive as humanly possible, and the state government signed off on their map. Nice, huh?
Posted by Recess Supervisor on July 04, 2009 at 1405 hrsRedistricting only swung the performance in that district 2-3%. Ryan has made that a safe seat for himself, but once it opens up it is going to be a dog fight. It is actually pretty much a 50-50 seat, with it originally being 50.x% in 2001 to a 49.x% because of Ryan’s landslides.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 04, 2009 at 1602 hrsAt the end of the day, the only politicians who must run to the middle are those who have a headstart from the left. Why? Because untarnished leftist politics don’t fly in enough of the country (or state). People are more conservative, fiscally and socially, than you’d ever get an strategist to openly admit, and it merely takes a skilled orator to resonate with that tone.
Walker isn’t going to move to the middle, nor should he. He should remain likeable and principled, and allow his record to speak for itself. Blank slates cannot win against an embedded incumbent. We need the confidence that a stellar track record creates, and Walker possesses that in spades.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 04, 2009 at 1603 hrsTo that end, the kinds of negative ads that will be cut on Walker will be a lot more dramatic than anything Walker can offer in response. In terms of emotional appeal, “Scott Walker starved poor black kids” (or whatever other hyperbolic stuff that OWN or GWC comes up with) is way stronger than “Scott Walker held the line on taxes.” Sadly, holding the line on taxes is boring.
I don’t know ... how about:
“Jim Doyle and the Democrats kicked x low-income children out of schools where they were thriving and forced them into failing schools—schools where almost every single one of them failed the NCLB testing.”
“Jim Doyle and the Democrats have passed a budget so bad that we are only a couple of places behind California in the bankruptcy line.”
“Companies are considering leaving Wisconsin, and instead of fighting to keep them here, Jim Doyle goes overseas to look at choo-choo trains. Where are his priorities?”
“In summer 2008, there was a disaster in the southern part of our state, where homes were destroyed and businesses devistated. Where was Jim Doyle? At a golfing fundraiser for himself. Where are his priorities?”
“Since Jim Doyle took office in 2002, x number of companies have started or expanded in Wisconsin, creating y number of new jobs; however, due to Jim Doyle’s and the Democrats anti-business attitude, x number of companies have left or reduced their presence in Wisconsin, taking with them y number of jobs, of which z were relocated to other states.”
“Wisconsin has unemployment rates of over 12 percent in several cities—what has Jim Doyle and the Democrats done to stimulate business growth in the state?”
I think there are plenty of “exciting” talking points that Scott Walker can bring up.
Posted by hsgbdmama on July 05, 2009 at 1153 hrsHere’s one more (http://www.bootsandsabers.com/index.php/weblog/permali nk/doyle_lives_large_on_taxpayers_dime/):
“Jim Doyle travels in style on the taxpayer dime (insert examples here), while thousands are losing their jobs and being forced to pay higher fees and taxes. Where are his priorities?”
Posted by hsgbdmama on July 05, 2009 at 1935 hrsDid I not suggest that Walker could run the same kinds of ads on Doyle? I believe I did, multiple times. Reading is fundamental.
If you think the GOP can win a mudslinging bloodbath with the Democrats, I would respectfully disagree, and most of the time I would be right. I think that’s the reason the GOP should be concerned about Walker. It has nothing to do with his credentials and philosophy and everything to do with the fact that any race he’s in is going to be an absolute mess. You’d be hard-pressed to find a conservative candidate with more political baggage than Scott Walker. That’s the unfortunate price of governing in difficult economic times. Everyone hates everything you could possibly do to rectify the situation.
Posted by Recess Supervisor on July 05, 2009 at 2014 hrsShall we try the 1st Congressional results again? In 1996, Mark Neumann in his re-election year beat Lydia Spottswood by just over 4,000 votes (or a 51%-49% nailbiter). In 1998, Paul Ryan, in his first run, beat her by a bit over 17,000 votes (or a 57%-43% whitewashing). In 2000, before he picked up southern Milwaukee County and lost Beloit, Ryan almost doubled up on Jeffrey Thomas. I’d call that taking a seat that had been historically Democratic and turning it into a safe-Republican one, even before the post-2000 redistricting.
The point about the gerrymandering to save the remaining 8 is, however, a good one. However, it was done at the behest of then-Congressman Tom Barrett, who wanted to be governor.
As for targets, Neumann also makes a pretty easy one. Beyond Neumann’s social conservatism (pretty much shared by Walker), the Dems and the media (though I repeat myself) will say that his 10-year absence from the public eye means whatever he’s learned about government has been rendered out of date. Then, there’s the fact that a couple of his business ventures post-1998 have gone all-the-way sour. It won’t matter that, like the specific anti-Walker attacks, they’re pretty much Bravo Sierra (or at least can, with lenghty explanations that won’t get play outside talk radio and the Rightosphere, be turned into said Bravo Sierra).
Posted by steveegg on July 06, 2009 at 0837 hrsRecess Supervisor: your characterizations are interesting. Choosing to describe any Walker strategy to illuminate Doyle’s incredibly bad record as mudslinging strikes me as akin to the desire of a filthy pig to drag everyone else in the slop with him. Doyle may indeed mudsling, but all Walker has to do is explain the truth (and consequences) of Doyle policy. Mudslinging is left for those who do not have the benefit of facts.
Walker’s record is exemplary, and not something I would describe as “baggage”: in fact, the only people I can imagine doing so are people who didn’t like his policies. In short, I’m getting the impression that you’re here as a schill, intent to do mischief and temper any properly placed enthusiasm for Walker that exists here. It’s obvious the sentiment for Walker is overwhelming here, and Neumann’s intrusion into this race is not looked upon as helpful to Conservatives.
Doyle has done a miserable job in this state; his policies have made adversaries of anyone (like me) who provides jobs here.
The best way to beat him? Offer an opposing candidate who could not be more different. While Neumann would be an acceptable choice in the absence of a better one, we fortunately aren’t faced with that dilemma.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 06, 2009 at 0847 hrsYou have a very naive view of politics, MStefan, if you think that all Walker has to do is explain the “truth” and the public will see how “exemplary” his record is.
Posted by Recess Supervisor on July 06, 2009 at 1021 hrsWalker’s record is exemplary - unless you wish to counter that with some facts. I’ll wait.
The truth in this state is obvious. We are following in California’s footsteps, and people are increasingly waking up to that fact.
This election is going to be bad for Doyle, and I believe Obama is helping that reality take shape. There is going to be a very large backlash IMO.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 06, 2009 at 1048 hrsNeuman is pro-ethanol; he loses my vote (against Walker).
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 06, 2009 at 1534 hrs
Now excuse me, I have to go find some real gas for the boat.Wow, how arrogant are you? You have opinions, but you’re confusing them for truths. Take, for instance, how you assume that the default presumption in this discussion is your opinion? “Scott Walker is great unless I can prove your opinion wrong?”
Seriously? Is that how someone taught you to reason? Take an opinion, pretend it’s a given in any argument, and hope to God that someone with a brain doesn’t fall over laughing at you?
Elections aren’t decided on facts, MStefan. They’re decided on perceptions. If they were decided on facts we wouldn’t need elections because one person would get 100% of the vote all the time.
I don’t need to get into a discussion of bullet points with you, because I’m not disagreeing with you that, in my opinion, Walker’s done some good things for Milwaukee County. But you are tremendously naive about how politics works if you don’t think there’s a lot of stuff in there that can easily be construed as bad. Let’s start with these, all of which are grounded just enough in truth that people can cut negative ads based on them:
- Walker deliberately overestimates budget deficit as an excuse to cut the pay of thousands of county employees. Meanwhile, Walker’s top aides are among the highest-paid employees in county government.
- Walker mismanages public assistance programs so badly that state has to step in and run the programs for the county.
- Walker neglects county buildings so badly that county courthouse is infested with cockroaches. Shrugs shoulders, says it’s not a big deal. Is this how Walker will take care of the State Capitol?
- Walker raises bus fare to among highest in the nation while also reducing service. Walker model for government services - cut programs while increasing fees.
- Walker gets caught praising a county parks job program that he himself vetoed from the budget. Hypocrite much?
I’m not saying any of these are absolutely true. What I think of it doesn’t matter. But in each case, it’s true enough that someone can spin it in an ad. And this is just a few things off the top of my head. Imagine what someone getting paid to do this will come up with.
And that’s my point. So my question to you is, how does Walker respond to this? Conservatives love him for his absolutist positions on taxes, but aside from that, what’s Walker accomplished? How does Walker take these assertions and turn them into positives? Or does Walker think he can just win with the message of “Doyle sucks more”?
Posted by Recess Supervisor on July 06, 2009 at 1741 hrsThis will be Walker’s challenge—that he’s going to have to show what he’s done.
What has Doyle accomplished, in all honesty? That is a talking point that should be forced. Start giving numbers, start showing what a anti-business climate Taxconsin has become. Make him answer for it. He got off scot-free in 2006.
Sykes pointed out that even Doyle supporters (i.e., WEAC) don’t tout Doyle’s “accomplishments,” but rather attack his opponents.
Or does Walker think he can just win with the message of “Doyle sucks more”?
I’m beginning to wonder if the RPW believes that too?
Posted by hsgbdmama on July 06, 2009 at 1751 hrs
(Based on a very discouraging conversation with someone from there today.) I hope not—that didn’t work so well in 2006. 
I prefer Walker over Neumann. He has done a great job with Milwaukee lowering the taxes and doing what it takes no matter how hard to hold the line on taxes. Doyle…doing everything it takes to ruin Wisconsin. Neumann is just not as aggressive as I’d like….little to wishy-washy for me.
Walkers opponents try to diss him and he does make an error here or there, but overall has done a great job. More so than Barrett, Doyle, or Kohl combined.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 06, 2009 at 1808 hrs[quote=Recess Supervisor]Wow, how arrogant are you? You have opinions, but you’re confusing them for truths. Take, for instance, how you assume that the default presumption in this discussion is your opinion? “Scott Walker is great unless I can prove your opinion wrong?”
I asserted that Scott Walker’s record is exemplary. You responded in this way (read: you didn’t respond with anything but a personal attack). That means you’ve lost the argument, and are simply trying something you think may be more effective. I’ll give you another chance. I asserted that Walker’s record has been exemplary, and now I’ll go one step further: people know that Walker’s record has been exemplary (which is why you see this op-ed response column full of expressions of support for him).
Seriously? Is that how someone taught you to reason? Take an opinion, pretend it’s a given in any argument, and hope to God that someone with a brain doesn’t fall over laughing at you?
Oh man. Can I spot leftist irrationality? Here it is folks: Recess Supervisor is a terminal case of it. Here’s your charge, RS: I made an assertion. Refute it; counter it, or run away with your tail between your legs. What’s laughable in this argument is your contortionism while completely deflecting away from your apparent inability to point out what about Walker’s record isn’t exemplary.
Again, I’ll wait.
Elections aren’t decided on facts, MStefan. They’re decided on perceptions. If they were decided on facts we wouldn’t need elections because one person would get 100% of the vote all the time.
Oh brother. Must you parse so transparently? Where did I ever say that Walker won’t have to campaign? What I said is that he is the superior candidate! In addition, his perception to the voting public is outstanding. There is something so utterly insipid about your turn of phrase.
If you want the strongest perception, it helps tremendously to start with the strongest record. In that department, Walker has a huge advantage. The rest is campaigning.
I don’t need to get into a discussion of bullet points with you, because I’m not disagreeing with you that, in my opinion, Walker’s done some good things for Milwaukee County. But you are tremendously naive about how politics works if you don’t think there’s a lot of stuff in there that can easily be construed as bad. Let’s start with these, all of which are grounded just enough in truth that people can cut negative ads based on them:
- Walker deliberately overestimates budget deficit as an excuse to cut the pay of thousands of county employees. Meanwhile, Walker’s top aides are among the highest-paid employees in county government.
- Walker mismanages public assistance programs so badly that state has to step in and run the programs for the county.
- Walker neglects county buildings so badly that county courthouse is infested with cockroaches. Shrugs shoulders, says it’s not a big deal. Is this how Walker will take care of the State Capitol?
- Walker raises bus fare to among highest in the nation while also reducing service. Walker model for government services - cut programs while increasing fees.
- Walker gets caught praising a county parks job program that he himself vetoed from the budget. Hypocrite much?
I’m not saying any of these are absolutely true.
Stop right there. All you have demonstrated is that bullshit can be created. Next you’ll tell me that ice cream is cold.
What I think of it doesn’t matter. But in each case, it’s true enough that someone can spin it in an ad. And this is just a few things off the top of my head. Imagine what someone getting paid to do this will come up with.
All of this is non-sequitur, because in order for it to be important to this discussion - and refutative my assertion that Walker is the superior candidate - is for you to attempt to demonstrate how exactly these tactics couldn’t be levelled against anyone.
And that’s my point. So my question to you is, how does Walker respond to this? Conservatives love him for his absolutist positions on taxes, but aside from that, what’s Walker accomplished? How does Walker take these assertions and turn them into positives? Or does Walker think he can just win with the message of “Doyle sucks more”?
Actually, Doyle sucks so badly that Walker could win with that message. Proof? Doyle’s approval rating is only 34%!
http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=6a dd62cc-62b9-4d11-95ab-ed8795968d8e
Fact: if Walker takes Milwaukee - a leftist stronghold - (and he will) that will speak more volumes to those who aren’t educated on the positions of Doyle and Walker than just about anything else. How will out-state moderates square the leftist claim that Walker is terrible when they see leftist Milwaukee supporting him? Hm?
Walker will refute these charges in the same way he refuted the hangwringing wails regarding the parks department deep budget cuts, all of which amounted to nothing of substance.
Walker is still by far the best candidate.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 06, 2009 at 2305 hrsCorrection on Doyle’s approval rating:
In April it was 35%. In May it was 34%. In June it was 33%. This, while the public (idiots that they are), approved of Obama’s performance thus far, to the tune of 59% (go figure).
At this rate, Walker won’t even need to campaign.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 06, 2009 at 2310 hrsYou assert Scott Walker’s record is exemplary, yet the only proof you’ve ever offered is the opinions of others. That’s says everything that needs to be said right there. You’re the one making an assertion without proof, not me. I’m just saying his record is a mixed bag that’s likely to be spun in such a way as to portray him as the Darth Vader of Milwaukee County.
Walker’s record is exemplary because some people on a message board on a conservative-leaning blog like the guy. That’s rich.
Posted by Recess Supervisor on July 06, 2009 at 2324 hrsI would have thought that support for Walker is self-evident, but you have some fairly leathery-skinned delusions. I will, therefore, put the subject to rest:
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_W I_615.pdf
That is the latest poll, and Walker is beating Doyle by 8 points. Neumann only holds a one point lead over Doyle.
Pay particular attention to Q8: this poll skews to Democrats (because the state skews):
Q1 Do you approve or disapprove of Governor Jim
Doyle’s job performance? If you approve,
press 1. If you disapprove, press 2. If you’re
not sure, press 3.
Approve .......................................................... 34%
Disapprove…........................................... ........ 60%
Not Sure…................................................. ...... 6%Q2 Do you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion
of Republican Milwaukee County Executive
Scott Walker? If favorable, press 1. If
unfavorable, press 2. If you’re not sure, press
3.
Favorable .............. 33%
Unfavorable…........ 31%
Not Sure…............. 37%Q3 Do you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion
of former Republican Congressman Mark
Neumann? If favorable, press 1. If
unfavorable, press 2. If you’re not sure, press
3.
Favorable…............ .26%
Unfavorable ........... .31%
Not Sure….............. .43%Q4 If the candidates for Governor next year were
Democrat Jim Doyle and Republican Scott
Walker, who would you vote for? If Jim Doyle,
press 1. If Scott Walker, press 2. If you’re
undecided, press 3.
Doyle…................... .40%
Walker…................. .48%
Undecided…........... .12%Q5 If the candidates for Governor next year were
Democrat Jim Doyle and Republican Mark
Neumann, who would you vote for? If Jim
Doyle, press 1. If Mark Neumann, press 2. If
you’re undecided, press 3.
Doyle ............................................................ .. 41%
Neumann ........................................................ 42%
Undecided…............................................ ........ 17%Q6 If you would define yourself as being liberal,
press 1. If moderate, press 2. If conservative,
press 3.
Liberal ............................................................ . 22%
Moderate…............................................. ......... 39%
Conservative…......................................... ....... 39%Q7 If you are a woman, press 1, if a man, press 2.
Woman ........................................................... 50%
Man….................................................. ............ 50%Q8 If you are a Democrat, press 1. If you are a
Republican, press 2. If you are an independent
or identify with another party, press 3.
Democrat ........................................................ 42%
Republican…........................................... ........ 32%
Independent/Other….................................... ... 26%Q9 If you are white, press 1. If African American,
press 2. If other, press 3.
White ............................................................ .. 89%
African American ............................................ 6%
Other…................................................ ............ 6%Q10 If you are 18 to 29 years old, press 1 now. If
you are 30 to 45, press 2. If you are 46 to 65,
press 3. If older, press 4.
18 to 29…................................................... ..... 15%
30 to 45…................................................... ..... 25%
46 to 65…................................................... ..... 40%
Older than 65 .................................................. 20%Game. Set. Match.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 06, 2009 at 2346 hrsLook, I’m not trying to beat you. I’m just trying to get you to answer my questions instead of talking around them.
I presume that you know the poll Daily Kos commissioned at the same time showed Walker down by more than this poll has him up. So now you’re pointing at one poll and saying that because some people in one poll like Scott Walker, he therefore has an exemplary record. You’re confusing popularity with accomplishment. Obama’s pretty popular too, but that doesn’t mean he’s done anything.
Most people in Wisconsin barely know Scott Walker, let alone anything he’s done. I’m honestly interested to hear what his supporters think are the accomplishments he should point to in running for office. So please, tell us five things Walker has done, other than holding the line on taxes, that you think the rest of Wisconsin would be supportive of in a gubernatorial campaign. After all, nobody’s going to vote for Scott Walker because you wave a poll in their face and refuse to answer their honest questions. Think of this as a good opportunity to practice your evangelism.
Thanks in advance for answering my question.
Posted by Recess Supervisor on July 07, 2009 at 0201 hrsWell, I for one am looking to beat your position, because I believe it is wrong.
Any fiscally responsible person understands the bloat and recklessness of government spending, particularly in leftist strongholds like Milwaukee. In addition, even the lightly glazed understand the debacle Tom Ament created with the pension scandal, and the dire ramifications to MKE County’s budget.
Just holding the line on taxes is one thing. Walker navigated Milwaukee County through one confrontation after another with the Common Council, a “business as usual” group if there ever was one, to keep unnecessary budget strains off the books. He trimmed fat constantly, where leftists whined that what was being cut out were vital organs.
It’s amazing what turned out not to be vital. He did it surrounded by antagonists, and without the help of the mainstream media. He is a living example of what principled fiscal conservatism can do.
Like it or not, this country’s dependency entitlement perspective needs to end, and the only way it can stop is through supporting excellent fiscally conservative candidates, like Walker, and like Paul Ryan.
So far, Walker’s accomplishments include:
1) Reducing County payroll by nearly 25% (is it your position that we need so many people working for government?);
2) Lowered the overall budget by about 10%;
3) Has now penned 7 budgets in a row without a property tax increase;
4) Had a budget surplus in 2008;Further, his positions on State fiscal policy going forward are key to me:
1) Requiring State Voter ID;
2) Cutting waste out of the budget as he has done in MKE;
3) Lowering taxes as a vehicle to stimulate the economy and attract business;
4) Expand School Choice, not kill it;
5) Demand more accountabilityAs for the Daily Kos Poll, you’ll forgive me if I take anything which emanates from there with a grain of salt. Regardless, Research 2000 randomly called households in Wisconsin, and didn’t sample the politically active as PPP did, and we all know what that results in: higher numbers for incumbents. The Public Policy Polling company has proven to be very accurate, and because they focus on partisan participants, they are hitting people more knowledgeable, and more likely to vote. Even still, public awareness of Walker and Neumann hover in the 30 percentile, while Doyle’s negatives are huge: about double that.
That can only mean good things, because even with the Doyle Smear Machine running @ redline, Doyle would have to turn every percentage point of the unknowns against Walker or Neumann in order to match his own negatives in the polls.
That’s huge, and very telling. I believe Walker’s likeability index and his ability to convey the proven conservative principles which are guiding Milwaukee will prove too powerful for Doyle to overcome.
I close as I opened: Walker is the superior candidate.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 07, 2009 at 0800 hrsEveryone knows in order to win you have to carry Milwaukee. People in Milwaukee seem to like Walker and his no non-sense aprroach of cutting taxes. Sure some are upset because of the parks yada yada yada, but overall he has done right by Milwaukee.
Every day it becomes clearer and clearer that Doyle is out for numero uno and frankly, hasn’t met a tax he doesn’t like. Walker could win on school choice alone.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 07, 2009 at 1404 hrsMStefan, Recess Supervisor is closer to the mark than you are. Walker’s Milwaukee County job will be used against him by Neumann and Doyle.
Neumann may make hay with it and win. That’s the reason he’s running. Walker has a soft underbelly that can be piereced with solid negative ads outside of SE WI.
If Neumann does hit him hard and Walker still wins he’ll be softened up for Doyle $5 or $6 million dollar barrage of negative ads.
Think about how badly Green was out spent and he didn’t really have a primary. Walker’s tank could be empty come Septemeber of 2010.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 08, 2009 at 1036 hrsMStefan, Recess Supervisor is closer to the mark than you are. Walker’s Milwaukee County job will be used against him by Neumann and Doyle.
Um…Recess Supervisor’s spouse, ladies and gentlemen…
In all seriousness: each candidate’s job will be used against them, and the one that does the best job of defending their positions and their records will win. What’s your point?
The bottom line - and it screams very loudly - is that Doyle’s disapproval ratings in Milwaukee are 70%, while Walker’s approval rating is 60%.
In addition, Walker is trailing Doyle in Dane County by only 3% now.
Neumann may make hay with it and win. That’s the reason he’s running. Walker has a soft underbelly that can be piereced with solid negative ads outside of SE WI.
Walker is far more immune to criticism than either of the other viable candidates. You’re only choosing to acknowledge what you consider weakness in Walker, when what refutes that is (a) his success in Milwaukee, and (b) his popularity in Milwaukee where you purport he has failures!
That dog…ain’t. Gonna. Hunt.
If Neumann does hit him hard and Walker still wins he’ll be softened up for Doyle $5 or $6 million dollar barrage of negative ads.
People are so connected these days that it is my contention that political winds have far more sway than in the past. Doyle’s got unovercomeable negatives, and no amount of ads will help him. Walker is the perfect kryptonite to Doyle, and a physical manifestation of exactly why there is such a backlash to Doyle.
Obama’s radical run to the left, combined with California’s virtual bankruptcy, and our own dire financial situation will spell the end for Doyle. Peace Corp, anyone? :D
Think about how badly Green was out spent and he didn’t really have a primary. Walker’s tank could be empty come Septemeber of 2010.
Doubt it. In fact, I’ll bet on it. What do you wish to bet?
You are also not choosing to acknowledge just how soured the Wisconsin voting public has gotten on Doyle.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 08, 2009 at 1622 hrsThink about how badly Green was out spent and he didn’t really have a primary.
Um, think about how Doyle’s Election Board got the finance rules changed retroactively (remember Justice Prosser’s scathing dissent? http://www.wisbar.org/res/sup/2006/2006AP002452.htm) so Green couldn’t use his other campaign funds from Congress.
Walker’s tank could be empty come Septemeber of 2010.
Or it could be full, because people are so sick of how Doyle has run this state into the ground.
Posted by hsgbdmama on July 19, 2009 at 1956 hrs^that
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 19, 2009 at 2018 hrsNeumann has the backing of the ethanol makers so that takes him off my list.
Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on July 21, 2009 at 1413 hrs
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