Milwaukee Committee Wants to Buy Black Holocaust Museum
A city-financed plan to buy the former home of America’s Black Holocaust Museum won unanimous approval today from the Common Council’s Zoning, Neighborhoods and Development Committee. But the fate of the museum, which closed July 31, remains uncertain.
The proposal, which needs full council approval, calls for the city to pay $250,000 to North Shore Bank, which holds the mortgage on the building and the museum artifacts.
There are about 226,300 black folks in the City of Milwaukee and hundreds of thousands of other people of other races that might be interested in preserving the Black Holocaust Museum - not to mention the folks across the nation who might want the museum preserved. If there is so little interest in the private/philanthropic sector in preserving the museum, why should the taxpayers be forced to preserve it? When one considers the fact that Milwaukee leaders are constantly saying that they are short of cash, are they being good stewards of the city to spend money on something as unnecessary and, evidently unwanted, as this?
From the link
The building was a former city facility that was sold several years ago to the museum for $1. The museum put around $700,000 of improvements into the building, Scherer said. He said the $250,000 being paid by the city is equal to or more than the building’s fair market value.
How can you put $700k into a building and the building be worth $250k more or less?
If this is closed then the sign on I-43 should have come down September 1st.
No bail outs for this museum!
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 09, 2008 at 1910 hrs
If this is closed then the sign on I-43 should have come down September 1st.
What kind of sign? A $4500/month billboard?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 09, 2008 at 1943 hrs
There is a sign south bound on I 43 advising
Holocaust Museum This Exit
or words to the effect. If the museum is closed take the sign down. We would not want someone to get shot wandering arround the streets of Milwaukee looking for a closed museum.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 09, 2008 at 2027 hrs
How can you put $700k into a building and the building be worth $250k more or less?
It is actually easier than it sounds. You can remove and wall up loading docks, remove offices to make more museum space and spend a lot on fixtures and furnishings that are of no interest/use to another buyer.
I think the museum would be more educational if you had it next to the Jewish Holocaust museum. People could decide for themselves which was a real Holocaust.
Buying this would be pure idiocy. It will pass unanamously.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 09, 2008 at 2059 hrs
Mr. Galt, you had me up until “People could decide for themselves which was a real Holocaust.” Is one of them a fake Holocaust?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 09, 2008 at 2124 hrs
Go to the Holocaust museum in DC. The Jewish Holocaust was in a totally different league than what you will see in the Milwaukee museum. Slavery was terrible and a human tragedy. Ask someone with a number tatooed on their arm which was the real Holocaust. They will be too polite to tell you the truth.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 09, 2008 at 2314 hrs
JG-
Are you seriously contending that African American slaves weren’t branded or tortured for the hell of it? Either you are naive or a racist.
Posted by capper on December 10, 2008 at 0031 hrs
I agree this was an odd move by the city, though I don’t believe they intend to re-open the museum. I say that because it was discussed during the meeting that it has been cleared out of artifacts. My take was they wish to control what happens with this property in connection with the Bronzeville redevelopment plan. I would note that I believe the file was amended by Alderman Murphy to not sell this property for anything less than they just paid for it, as it was to his knowledge the first time they’d ever bought back a property that they had sold for $1 in the past.
Posted by Dave Reid on December 10, 2008 at 0453 hrs
capper: 6 million? That is how many Jews died. Millions more were degraded, tortured, experimented on, etc. Give me a number of African American slaves who met that fate? Many, but not millions. There is no comparison. You are naive and are obviously loosing the argument by calling me racist.
I don’t know of any Jew who wouldn’t have traded places had they known both situations-as horrible as both were. Disagree if you will but read your history first. I was not deneying the horrible acts toward African Americans if you are indeed literate.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 10, 2008 at 0745 hrs
John Galt:
Yes, millions of African slave died in the slave trade. !-2 million died in the barbarous conditions on transport over the ocean alone (more before they were placed on ships, more after they got off the ships). Being sent to a sugar plantation in the Caribbean or Brazil often was tantamount to a death sentence (note the museum focuses on slavery in the Americas). Slave mortality, through overwork or disease, was high, particularly the Deep South.
And, it goes without saying, but before the Civil War, if you were a slave you were going to spend most or all of your life in bondage.
Before you start declaring what is a “holocaust” and what it is not or throwing around bizarre phrases like “ask any Jew,” I would suggest you read your history first.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 10, 2008 at 0840 hrs
BCB - what is your source? 2 Million seems high? But I don’t really know. Also, how many total slaves were brought to the US?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 10, 2008 at 0853 hrs
What I did not want to happen is a comparison of who has been more oppressed throughout history. I think that it is safe to say that the Jews and the African continent have experienced traumas and atrocities out of proportion to other races. I think that Mr. Galt’s line of thinking is not unusual, and is due to two things: 1) There is a clear number—6 million—that is associated with the loss of life during the Jewish Holocaust. This number is almost universally recognized as the appropriate estimate. There is no real tangible number associated with the African Holocaust, as numbers of those enslaved range from 30-100million people. And of those, how many died en route, in captivity, or whatnot is not known. Of course, we can all do the math. The other issue is 2) the time period associated with these atrocities. The Jewish Holocaust occurred in a rather condensed period, whereas the African Holocaust spread centuries. There is no defining event (a la World War II) or defining villain (a la Hitler) for it to have the resonance that the Jewish Holocaust does. That is my guess as to why people think like Mr. Galt. Let’s put an embargo on the term “racist” until we see real evidence of it rather than lashing out at comments on a message board that we may think are idiotic or ill-informed.
As for which group had it better…let’s not delve into that argument. Were we to really examine the conditions of either group during this period, we may be far more hesitant compare two of the most horrific acts of human history as if they were college football teams.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 10, 2008 at 0918 hrs
As a Jew, I don’t think this conversation could get much dumber. I don’t for a minute believe the Holocaust was worse than American slavery. Making such comparisons is in bad taste in the first place.
I have no idea whether the city should help the museum—I would guess not—but let’s not take the conversation places it needn’t go.
Posted by scott on December 10, 2008 at 0950 hrs
This is a rare occasion in which I agree with Scott. This is about the museum, not who had it worse, when and how.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 10, 2008 at 1053 hrs
To clarify my point. This is the definition of Holocaust:
hol?o?caust? ?/?h?l??k?st, ?ho?l?-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [hol-uh-kawst, hoh-luh-] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a great or complete devastation or destruction, esp. by fire.
2. a sacrifice completely consumed by fire; burnt offering.
3. (usually initial capital letter) the systematic mass slaughter of European Jews in Nazi concentration camps during World War II (usually prec. by the).
4. any mass slaughter or reckless destruction of life.I am not, nor have I ever said, that what happened to African slaves was not terrible. I do not, however, believe it was a holocaust. Now if you think that is a thought-hate crime well, do what you will.
All people perpetuating slavery wanted to profit themselves. The people responsible for the Holocaust wanted to humiliate and anihilate a race out of pure hatred. I believe there is a major lesson to be learned from both, but, they are not the same.
BCB-please provide your source. My history book tells me the number was approx. 650,000 to the Americas. Atrocity? Yes but 6 million? No.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 10, 2008 at 1152 hrs
I emailed my alderman, Jim Bohl, and in no time got a response. He said “While I have no doubt that there is great merit to having this museum operating in the city of Milwaukee, I do not believe the city ought to be in the business of either operating museums or proping up failed businesses. As the infrastructure services audit shows, we don’t even have the money to repair our own roads. Thus, I will not be supporting this resolution”
I support both his position and the reasoning.
Posted by yoSAMite on December 10, 2008 at 2307 hrs
John Galt:
According to Marcus Rediker’s acclaimed and award-winning “The Slave Ship: A Human History,” 12.4 million slaves left Africa for the New World.
According to Rediker, relying on figures from The Transatlantic Slave Trade: A Data Base” (put together by a group of four historians who are experts in the area), 1.8 million slaves died in the Middle Passage.
Stage to stage (capture/transport to African coast/waiting on African coast-middle passage-initial arrival in the Americas),Rediker puts the total killed at roughly 5 million.
And of course torture/rape was commonplace on the slave ships.
RE: comparison of motives. Irrelevant to the victims and meaningless anyay. “All people perpetuating slavery” may have wanted to profit but they were profiting from a system that they knew killed people at appalling rates.
I don’t see much merit or sense or reason in ranking human catastrophes and tragedies. But I thought I should get some numbers out there that go beyond your “history book.”
BCB
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 11, 2008 at 2342 hrs
yoSAMite> Bohl just flipped his vote because the city has no intent (as I stated above) to run the museum. They purchased this property as part of the redevelopment efforts in Bronzeville. In fact the city has purchased multiple properties in the area over the past few years and this property was the best property of the bunch and even in today’s market is assessed at $750k
Posted by Dave Reid on December 16, 2008 at 1336 hrs
BCB In 1860 there were 3 million slaves alive and living in the US according to the 1860 Census.
All I am saying is the Holocaust happened to Jews during WWII. What happened to African slaves was not a holocaust.Rediker puts the total killed at roughly 5 million.
... over 3 centuries.” Sometimes you need to think about what you are reading BCB.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 17, 2008 at 1928 hrs
Galt,
So if you institutionalize it and take your time it’s not a holocaust?
What would it be then?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 17, 2008 at 2032 hrs
Thanks for the info Dave. I missed the vote on channel 25 and have been real busy at work so I didn’t know this. I can support his change as long as the city isn’t going to run the museum. I just hope we aren’t being dupped.
Posted by yoSAMite on December 17, 2008 at 2047 hrs
PJR -
I would call it slavery. I can’t think of any reason that re-naming it will make it worse than it was.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 18, 2008 at 0833 hrs
I would call it slavery. Clint is exactly right.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 23, 2008 at 2331 hrs
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