Kohl’s to Stay Out of Milwaukee
This is great news for Menomonee Falls. The likely reasoning is interesting.
The source didn’t have any information on the factors behind the company’s decision.
However, a downtown headquarters and parking structure would cost more to build than a similar project at a suburban site. That’s mainly because urban developments are built on smaller parcels, requiring taller buildings and multi-deck parking structures.
Also, a downtown building would have faced higher property taxes than a Menomonee Falls building.
Finally, a move from Menomonee Falls to downtown would have been disruptive for many Kohl’s employees.
Of those, I would suspect that the biggest reason is the employees. Most of the people who work there live in the surrounding suburbs. They don’t want to trek to downtown Milwaukee every day. The risk of losing some key talent would be too great.
I just hope they stay in the Falls.
Tom Barrett has been a disaster as it relates to developing that downtown park east corridor. The government can tear down a very good and functional freeway spur just because they think it is a good idea. But you can’t force employers to relocate there.
I found it interesting that Barrett chose to deliver his state of the city address from the Ingeteam factory. Wonder what the demand is for a foreign wind turbine maker without the government forcing and subsidizing the purchase of their product.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 15, 2012 at 0721 hrs
Steve,
Um lets try and get some facts right. Almost all of the City owned land in the Park East ROW has been developed (FlatIron), and the City has helped multiple projects (The North End, Aloft, The Moderne), in the PE Redevelopment Area. It is Milwaukee County that has done little with its land. (note Walker was County Exec for most of those years, and the County hasn’t even RFPd all of the land yet).Further, removing the Park East spur did not significantly impact congestion (look it up), and at the same time it saved taxpayers millions of dollars, which I would think conservatives would support. Additionally, former freeway cleared land, in fact Park East land, is today a vibrant neighborhood in Milwaukee, and it took time, as will this portion.
Finally, I take it that Ingeteam getting help is bad, but Kohl’s getting help from the Falls is ok?
Posted by Dave Reid on February 15, 2012 at 0931 hrs
Thank you, Dave, for attempting to educate Steve (and Owen) to a few pesky facts, such as that the Park East land in question has little to do with the city or its current mayor. Add to this the date of when the freeway spur was demolished, and who was mayor then. Of course, Steve, you could look it up. But that would be harrrd worrrk? While you’re at it, Steve, you also could look up how well Walker’s CAPCO plan that put millions and millions of our tax dollars into a few of his friends’ businesses has worked: a total of 202 jobs, and that’s for the entire state.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 15, 2012 at 1003 hrs
Gee
That JS hatchet job never mentioned Scott Walker.
The Journal article was all about 1999 and long before Walker was the governor. The name James Doyle comes to mind. Too bad that Doyle,s maneuvering with the Tobacco Settlement was not slammed by the media like the Foreclosure settlement is with Walker.Oh yeah. Doyle was a very liberal Democrat who could do no wrong, even taking Millions from the Indian Casinos
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 15, 2012 at 1031 hrs
The Park East freeway should have never been torn down. If they would have connected 145 all the way through, downtown would have lots of businesses locating there. The easier you make a place to get to, the more often people will go there. Why is that so hard to understand?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 15, 2012 at 1032 hrs
I’m not from the Milwaukee area so I don’t know nor have any opinion about whether staying put is the right thing for Kohls or not. But what astounds me is the bitter venomous hatred for Wisconsin’s two major cities. Would you prefer they become like Detroit. Do you in Waukesha, West Bend or whereever really want to be the suburb of a Detroit or Newark- like failed city. Like it or not, Madison and Milwaukee are the economic engines of Wisconsin and any economic development policy that amounts (like Walker’s does) to a scorched earth campaign against them for political reasons is sheer folly and madness and probably part of the reason Wisconsin’s economy is faltering while the rest of the country is improving. I mean, jeez, even Rick Perry in Texas doesn’t demonize and punish Democratic Houston or Austin. Could he be smarter and more reasonable than our governor? What a thought
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 15, 2012 at 1122 hrs
As far as I am concerned Milwaukee already is a failed city, what do they have to offer anyone ? The added cost to any business and all the other hurdle jumping brings you what type of benefit?
If you take away the airport and Miller Park what is left?
We should just concede Milwaukee and Madison to Illinois and in return we get upper Michigan.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 15, 2012 at 1207 hrs
So many rapid response comments to address, so little time.
1. Last I checked, Kohl’s is a welcome supplier of merchandise and customers freely flock to their stores. This is all done without the government subsidies required to keep foreign based Ingeteam (Talgo’s cousin) in this country.
2. Tearing down that freeway spur made it a lot harder for suburban people to get downtown to their jobs and to downtown events. For the environmentalist types, it also wastes gas having to stop at the 6 to 8 stoplights. I used to be able to get to the East side in about one minute on that spur. It now takes about 6 minutes. If the people living downtown want to make it harder to get to their city, that is their right. But then don’t be surprised when people don’t want to invest or go there.
3. Any sane person looking at the Park East would say the development hasn’t exactly paid off the way John Norquist and his utopian visionaries planned. The only thing of interest going up in that area is the Moderne apartment building, which looks great, but also is being covered by City money. The only other thing that will ever locate on those main parcels will be a new arena, also government subsidized.
4. Did Tom Barrett create all these problems? No. But the liberal policies he subscribes to have over the last 50-years brought about much of it.
5. I don’t want to see Milwaukee turn into Detroit (although it is already). But few want to keep pouring tax dollars into that mess until the politicians and residents decide to change course and take some responsibility to rebuild the city and make it attractive for employers and residents instead of always having their hand out to fund more liberal ideas.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 15, 2012 at 1218 hrs
Like it or not, Madison and Milwaukee are the economic engines of Wisconsin
Milwaukee, sure. Madison - perhaps?
A quarter of the citizens of Dane county work for the government. Madison is only an economic engine because they leech money from the rest of us.
Posted by Brian Dunbar on February 15, 2012 at 1336 hrs
@Steve
1. Ummm The Falls approved a $41 million TIF for Kohl’s… So a little help huh? Or does that not count?2. Please. Commute times across SE Wisconsin have simply not risen significantly (I think it is 1 minute, and declined in some areas) since the removal of the PE. And clearly removing the PE has had zero negative impact on people coming to Milwaukee, as big events show us people can drive in just fine.
3. Really? Or they might know that development is a slow process, that yes will take years, but will in the end be better than an expensive under-utilized freeway spur. PS The second Phase of The North End breaks ground tomorrow.
And once again removing the PE freeway spur saved, yes saved, millions of taxpayer dollars. Sounds awful.
4. Globalization is a liberal policy?
Posted by Dave Reid on February 15, 2012 at 1343 hrs
By any and I mean ANY measure, Milwaukee is not anywhere close to Detroit and the fact you would dismiss it as failed city and seemingly root for it’s further decline, proves my point exactly. Whether it’s anti-urbanism or thinly veiled racism or simply political points-scoring is unclear, but the right’s pathological hatred for our state’s two main cities borders on a mental illness. As for Madison’s economy, I didn’t know that insurance, bio-tech, agricultural services, health care, software development and a world-class university that churns out ideas and patents and entreprenuerial energy counts for exactly nothing in your eyes. You guys are such tribalistic Neanderthals that you’d rather the economy crash than have a vibrant economy if it somehow also involves and includes your political enemies. Good grief.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 15, 2012 at 1431 hrs
I’m a moderate. I crap on both sides and do so joyfully.
I think Madison is great as an urban model for a mid-sized city. Milwaukee, on the other hand, is increasingly more like the Detroits and Clevelands and Buffalos of the world than cities like Minneapolis/St. Paul - whether we’re talking about unemployment, education systems, racial and economic inequality, on and on. Milwaukee is a post-industrial, blue collar wasteland filled with vacant buildings that nobody wants and an undereducated, undertrained workforce of little interest to employers. I agree that the animosity between conservatives and liberals on the issue of urban renewal and revitalization isn’t helpful, but at the same time we can’t be blind to what’s really there.
At the same time, someone needs to remind the surrounding municipalities and counties that you can only move away from the problem for so long before it starts to follow you. If there’s no commitment to redeveloping downtown Milwaukee into a vibrant destination for work and life, all the poors and the minorities are going to start following the jobs out to Whitesville, where communities like New Berlin will proudly mask their xenophobia under objections to things like rental housing.
I have long advocated building a large concrete barricade around the city of Milwaukee and turning it into a real-life version of The Running Man, but absent support for my proposal the region should probably learn how to work together rather than taking an adversarial approach to what are, in the end, shared problems.
Posted by Recess Supervisor on February 15, 2012 at 1449 hrs
Whether it’s anti-urbanism or thinly veiled racism or simply political points-scoring is unclear, but the right’s pathological hatred for our state’s two main cities borders on a mental illness.
The one guy aside, what pathological hatred are you referring to? Cite?
Posted by Brian Dunbar on February 15, 2012 at 1455 hrs
I feel so sad for you city-haters. I’ve done the country life and the suburban life here, and I came back in Milwaukee for years now—because I love it. We had daytime breakins in the country and in the burbs but never have had those problems here. We had higher home insurance rates there for those reasons and, in the country, because of lack of fire hydrants; we also had high costs for snow clearance and garbage pickup and much else that we don’t have to pay separately in the city. And compared to constantly having to drive in the country or the burbs, we hardly need to use our car now, lowering our auto insurance, because we can walk to work and so much else, and we get to see and talk with neighbors when we do.
When you rely only on media reports—which of course report crime more than all that is good, because that is not news—and you only use the freeways and main streets to speed through Milwaukee, you’re not seeing the real life of the city, in the city. You’re just seeing other suburbanites driving through it. So you’re missing a lot that is good here, sadly for you.
I would not begin to claim to know what life is like in every suburb or other areas around us, just because I drive through them and have only media reports of drugs there, crime there, and worse. Really, you need to read studies of media usage and how much they can skew worldviews compared to realities.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 15, 2012 at 2109 hrs
I certainly can’t speak for others, but as a committed suburbanite, I don’t hate the city. I just prefer the suburban lifestyle. I think I’d prefer the country lifestyle even more - it’s more suitable to my misanthropic tendencies - but it’s not currently compatable with my goals. Please don’t assume that just because some of us choose a certain lifestyle that it means that we hate other lifestyles.
Posted by Owen on February 15, 2012 at 2122 hrs
Milwaukee has a very live-able downtown and great lakefront. I wouldn’t be afraid of any crime living in most areas in the downtown area either.
My problem is the that the city itself is moving away from being a maker and turning into a taker. That can’t last forever. At some point all the dough made by the people who created those factories that “made stuff” and even those who made nice livings working for in ancillary businesses like accounting, law and finance are going to be gone and nothing is there to replace it, except a huge inner city dependent class and a clueless mayor whose sole idea of economic development is to blow money he doesn’t have on pointless choo choo’s.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 15, 2012 at 2154 hrs
I don’t hate the city
So the Owen B. Robinson Memorial Bypass is being deferred?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 16, 2012 at 0715 hrs
Owen, I did not assume that you were among those whome I addressed as “you city-haters,” so it’s more than odd that you are the one to count yourself among those addressed, isn’t it?
But: Yes, the country life is lovely in many ways, and suburbs have their attractions as well. We do have to get in the car and drive a considerable distance to get to big-box stores, for example, that are so accessible in many suburbs—and that now are closer to where we lived in the countryside than where we are in the city. Basically, there was a time in our lives when those were useful places to be, and I understand that others may be in times of their lives or in mindsets that make suburban or country life best. That time is past for us now.
The need, I think, is for people to stop demonizing others’ choices based on misinformation or lack of information. And that includes Kohl’s choice. Heck, it’s staying in our metro area, so we all continue to benefit, if we stop acting like 124th Street, the county line, is some sort of massive divide. And we all benefit if some stop demonizing pols of any party who give their lives to public service, work hard, and keep it clean.
If suburban voters want to fork over far more dollars per capita than the city would or could do, that’s the Falls’ voters’ choice—and I just appreciate that Kohl’s is appreciated here to the point of competition to keep it here, in the metro area and in the state. Let’s congratulate all pols involved to encourage them to keep working hard to keep a lot of businesses happy here, wherever they end up here.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 16, 2012 at 1047 hrs
This is going to be great for Menomonee Falls. The people who work there would completely benefit from it. It would be so much nicer not having to drive for long hours to and from work everyday.
Posted by Trek to Everest London on February 18, 2012 at 0347 hrs
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