Wow, that’s a long time.
The Knights of Malta military order of the Catholic church - which dates back to the time of the Crusades - has celebrated its 900th birthday in Rome.
The order is one of the few created in the Middle Ages that is still active.
It has now become a major international humanitarian organisation.
The order says that its battles today are no longer fought with swords, but with “peaceful tools against disease, poverty, social isolation as well as protecting the faith”.
It was officially recognised by Pope Paschal II in February 1113.
Learning about he laundries in Ireland and the moving around of pedophile priests make me shrug my shoulders when something like the Knights of Malta are discussed.
This particularb Church is more concerned about maintaining its wealth and reputation than caring about its weakest members.
Cardinal Dolan was rewarded for hiding assets with his new role, a payoff buried in a promotion.
Why would I care what a pope thought who was at the very the center of delaying payments to victims and hiding assets from its child victims ?
The leadership is a cabal of in indicted coconspirators
The general message is fine , but the institution spouting the message is corrupt deserving scorn, not reverence.
Are you saying the Roman Catholic church suffers from a form of liberal thought…a high tolerance for sin and the choice to sin?
I’m very fascinated by your comment.
Allowing children to be abused , covering it up and then stonewalling victims by concealing assets is not a liberal or conservative Action It is a criminal action.
For anyone interested in this issue - check out “meaMaxima Culpa: Silence in the House of God” playing on HBO this month.
It deals with a Milwaukee area pedophile priest and the actions of the school he taught at and the archdiocese to dent, conceal and out litigate the victims
Not liberal, not conservative - just criminal.
I’m a Catholic, and hold NO brief for the perps nor the coverup perps.
But your concerns will be much better-received were you to distinguish those INDIVIDUALS from “the Church” as a whole.
Further, I don’t think your thesis about Dolan’s assignment to NYC—that he was given it as a reward for ‘hiding assets’—is either 1) sound or 2) prove-able. Do you contend that the Archdiocese’s cemeteries should NOT be maintained, and that the cash reserves held specifically FOR maintenance should be re-allocated (against the implicit and explicit wishes of the deceased and their families) to “pay off” victims?
Do you also contend that money-payments are some sort of Glorious End for the victims? And that those monies should be extracted from the 99.999% of Catholics who had nothing to do with it—sort of like “Indian reparations” or “black farmer” reparations?
You can do better than that, I think.
The Knights of Malta withstood a siege by the Turks in 1565. The battle for Malta stopped the Turks advance in the Mediterranean. It is interesting history to read.
Dad, do me a favor.
Watch the documentary and then come back with some questions .
The Vatican believed this to be an American problem and now a European problem
I want to be respectful . This was not bad apples. The Vatican believes they are above local law .
I grew up with the mysticism of daily Mass and the comfort of same.
There is no defense for Cardinal Dolan or the current Pope for heir roles in slowing the process.
Moving assets to avoid bankruptcy in order to not pay awards for pedophile priests behavior is neither commendatory nor Christ like.
The members who stay and make excuses are caught between the promise of eternal life and doing the right thing here on earth
I would beg them to look at the facts again.
You did your best, but given the chance to save children, they chose themselves- and the Church over and over and over again.
They deserve your prayers but not your support.
Actually, its very CONSERVATIVE of you to hold people accountable for criminal behavior.
We live in a society that killed 54 million children with abortion. That is a clear sin, and child abuse, at its absolute worst.
Abortion is high tolerance for sin, maquerading as “choice”, and driven by liberalism.
Is it any wonder that the rest of society has a high tolerance for other sins against children? (Liberalism sending the wrong message to priests.)
I applaud you to wanting to hold the Catholic church to high moral standards, but lets concentrate on child abuse advocated by liberalism as well.
I look forward to your denouncing of the child abuse at liberal abortion camps as well.
Mark, the Vatican IS a sovereign State, just like France or the USA. You’re confusing some issues here—the Vatican, for practical purposes, is a monarchy, with the Pope serving as the ultimate court, congress, and executive. That’s the structure, and that’s the geo-political reality.
JPII, whose integrity is unimpeachable, believed that the accusations were purely anti-Catholic slanders. That comes from his history with the Commies, who were exceedingly good at anti-Catholic slanders. Ratzinger did not hold the same belief, and quietly engineered the new disciplinary protocols which (effectively, not technically) “toss” bad apple priests out of the priest-biz rapidly. When he became Pope, the Church’s policies and actions were near 100% the opposite of what went before.
Yes, it was an American problem. It was also an Irish problem—but in Ireland, the abusers were nuns AND priests, and the abuse was not only homosexual. I don’t know what other “European” you refer to.
Now, as to “blaming”: let’s not forget Cauley and McCann, the D.A.‘s of Milwaukee County during the period in question. Let’s not forget the cop-shop(s), either. No, they were not perps….but they sure as hell were facilitators.
Explain to me why Money Payments are so important, and why the 99.9999% innocent should cough up the money, please.
Respectfully , Quit typing and watch the documentary.
Mussolini cut the state deal with the Vatican and the Church took mo position regarding the Axis atrocities. That too was a shameful time fornthe church.
The public officials (McCall et all ) were good Catholics who looked the other way .
The church has a history of these problems dating back to the 4th Century.
It is not an American or Irish problem, it is a Roman Catholic Church problem.
Your take on Ratzinger is one that few share.
JP2’s integrity will rest in history with the fact that he put Ratzinger in charge to oversee this particular area and the settlements were grudgingly made and heavily contested using any loop hole available.
The Papacy was a payoff just like Dolans for ” managing” scandal.
Joe Paterno was a good man more concerned with an institution than its victims. That too will be history’s fate for JP2
Your sense that things changed under this pope totally disregards the lawyering the church desperately does every day to stop playoffs to victims .
It is a convenient fantasy for the faithful but a fantasy nonetheless
Every single request went to Ratzinger under JP2 . That was not done to fast track claims but rather to slow he process thru one office. Great strategy, poor justice.
He was also instrumental in renaming his office due to the bad press it received as it coordinated the Inquisition.
The children were abused by a monied entity that compounded their problems by knowingly recirculating abusers
Since that entity cannot replace their innocence , they can pay a monetary penalty.that may not be Vatican law, but it is our law.
And one last thing, if this had happened to you , or your brother or your sister would you be defending this institution? Would be asking why your brother who had been raped repeatedly needed monetary compensation for the action of adults and their knowing superiors ? Would you be wondering why the 99.9% of Catholics would put their church before justice for the Abused?
I would and frankly, I do .
Mark, if your goal here is to try and get a devout Catholic to take an objective approach to viewing the life and actions of JPII, might I suggest you just go out back and set about trying to glue wings on the pig? It’ll be more productive.
I won’t disagree that the guy was instrumental in doing a lot of good in regard to communism, etc. but most Catholics are so far down the rabbit hole in blindly thrusting the guy toward sainthood that you’re never going to get an even-handed accounting of his tenure. Just like so much of the church’s history, elevate the good and sweep the bad under the rug.
Not hard to find the Catholic-hater Intellectualoids and conspiracy theorists these days. Fourth-tier former leggie aides are, after all, extremely well-informed.
Just ask ‘em.
Not hard to find the Catholic-hater Intellectualoids and conspiracy theorists these days. Former leggie mailroom clerks are, after all, extremely well-informed.
Just ask ‘em.
The Knights Hospitaller live on as the Knights of Malta; the knights Templar are gone. And there’s surely been plenty of intrigue, treachersy, and deceit in the ~2000 year history of the Catholic Church.
And how could there not be, given that the Church is made up of our fellow humans, and humans are, as always, flawed?
That evil exists within the Church (as in all human institutions) is inevitable; that it was allowed to flourish and was covered up was not. BUT that surely is no reason to use this as an all-too-convenient exuse to demand that the Catholic Church is so flawed that it should not be exist.
We no longer live in the days when popes could (sometimes) force monarchs to their knees; we have freedom of conscience and are free to practice our faiths (or not) as we see fit. Which is to say, if you don’t care for the Catholic Church then you’re free to go elsewhere, BUT, you’re not free to use secular authority to destroy the Catholic Church.
dad29—you are winning no converts and your arguments fly in the face or facts. The lawyers representing the victims of priest sexual abuse in Milwaukee had stated that the barriers raised by the Archdiocese to keep victims from compensation are the worst they have seen. The latest move by the Archdiocese to suspend payments to lawyers and others regarding the bankruptcy because the Archdiocese will run out of money is absurd at best, and criminal at most.
The Archdiocese had hidden and moved money. Sorry, the Cousins center is worth millions of dollars. If they can’t pay the lawyers they are using to keep from paying settlements, sell the place.
As to what happened, I have seen the internal documents. I have seen Bishop Skilba’s letter sending a pedophile to CA. I have seen his letter condemning the staff who turned pedophiles in. He and other knew damn well that they were taking pedophile priests—known pedophiles who abused tens or hundreds of children and sending them to places where they would do it again.
Criminal yes, but more importantly—think Mortal Sin committed by Church officials. If you are a true Catholic you know that a Mortal Sin is committed when someone intentionally does something that will bring harm to others—in this case the vulnerable children.
I offer no defense of the Catholic church for its pedophila problems, but, what does that have to do with the Knights of Malta? Are they pedophiles too? Are they guilty by association? Or is any reference to any church reason to come out and bash religion?
Mark, you really want to stay respectful? Don’t poorly segue to an unrelated topic, from just any post that has the word ‘church’ in it. Otherwise, be honest and admit that you hate all catholics(christians?) and hold them in such contempt that you will exploit any excuse to belittle, berate, or otherwise condemn them. Stop pretending respect. You have none for any Catholic, yeah, we get it.
Respectfully, that is an absurd statement.
You get nothing
Really? Then please tell me the relationship between the Knights of Malta celebrating their 900th year and your feelings about pedophile priests? How is your total apathy toward the Knights related to the Catholic church legal machinations? Your only segue was ‘catholic’ and by straight out admission in your very first comment, your respect is nil for all things catholic. At best you want to be respectful as stated in comment 7. Then you squelch that right in comment 7 by saying the catholic church does not deserve support, unless you are suggesting that something undeserving of Dad’s support, still deserves your respect? Really?
Perhaps we could state more clearly that I get nothing from you. I am fairly certain most everyone else can feel your contempt and utter lack of respect, empty words to the contrary.
Etiquette, among other things, is a skill allowing one to remain believably polite during conversation or debate. You are not believable. (Many times neither am I, but I can admit it to myself and others.)
I think your words have worth here, the Catholic church has protected itself rather than its members. Just quit the false etiquette, it doesn’t just ring hollow, it clearly is.
The Knights of Malta, one of the most peculiar organization in the world where have there 900 birthday.These are at once Roman Catholic that runs soup kitchens and every other job.yes i can think of that way really a Legal way to do it.
I’m a catholic by faith and a firm believer that battles today are no longer fought with swords, but with peaceful tools against disease, poverty, social isolation as well as protecting the faith