I Suppose It Was Inevitable

When I first started blogging, the Wisconsin blogosphere was pretty simple.  TAM had been around for a while.  In 2003, there were only a handful of Wisconsin bloggers.  Lakeshore Laments, The Blog General, Folkbum, Ann Althouse, and a few others that I’m sure I’m forgetting.  In any case, perhaps I’m being nostalgic (I’ve been known to do that), but it was pure.  It was almost literally a bunch of people sitting around in their underwear discussing the world around them. 

I recall having very lengthy and enjoyable discussions with folkbum about a variety of issues.  I’m sure if I went back through the archives, I’d find quite a bit of that (as well as a lot more gun pr0n).  Even on the righty side, we had debates about issues where we disagreed - even vehemently at times. 

But in the toddler age of the Wisconsin blogosphere, there was a crucial element: respect.  There was respect for the fact that the other guy sitting behind his keyboard was a normal guy like me.  He or she had a job, a family, likes, dislikes, prejudices, a lawn to mow, etc.  He or she had good days, bad days, great days, was grumpy, happy, sad, etc.  He or she was a person - with all of the texture that means.  So when we engaged each other, we did it from the standpoint that we were a couple of ordinary guys talking about stuff. 

Even as recently as 2006, this held true.  I had a lengthy and respectful debate with a lovely young lady from FAIR Wisconsin regarding the gay marriage amendment.  We debated the issue and went our separate ways.  We never came to agreement, but we had the debate respectfully. 

I don’t see this happening in the Wisconsin blogosphere anymore.  It has evolved, or devolved, into the crass identity politics which everyone laments.  It’s rarely about debating the issues.  It’s about tearing each other down.  It’s sad and pathetic.  And, with all due respect, it ticks me off. 

I read with great interest the debate in the Wisconsin blogosphere regarding the latest Wisconsin Supreme Court election.  There were lengthy posts on the race.  Some of them were of depth and substance.  But even of those, far too many were also laced with insults and filth.  It seemed to matter less about what was said than who said it.  This has become commonplace. 

I, for one, lament the decline of the Wisconsin blogosphere.  I suppose it was inevitable, but that doesn’t mean that we can’t change it. 

Forthwith, I promise that I will engage my fellow bloggers on the content of their arguments.  I further promise that I will ignore and possibly remove from our blogroll those who engage in constant personal attacks.  We should shun those who engage in this behavior and deprive them of the traffic they crave.  If I slip up, I invite our loyal seven readers to correct me.  I’m human, after all. 

As I said, it saddens me to watch the Wisconsin blogosphere decline.  But I refuse to be a part of it. 

1. Huzzah, Owen Robinson. 

   Huzzah indeed. 

   This post was a long time coming, and perhaps this will help some of the screaming heads on both sides to perhaps cut back on their over the top rhetoric and atleast work on some respect.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 05, 2008 at 1053 hrs




2. This was a good post.  Things have gotten uglier. 

   One thing that didn’t seem so prevalent two years ago was the organized wolf-packs of agenda posters whose sole purpose it seems is to cause chaos with each blog post you make. 

   There seems to be a concerted effort on the part of some to pretty much trash every conservative post idea you put up here.  The idea being if they can cause anarchy in the thread with insults, etc, they have succeeded in neutralizing your ability to persuade people with the original blog post. 

   I’d have no problems if you started editing the replies and deleting ones that don’t stay respectful of everyone and on topic.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 05, 2008 at 1102 hrs




3. Excellent move.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 05, 2008 at 1110 hrs




4. Being relatively new to the blogosphere (a little over one year), one of the things that jumped out at me quickly was how brave some of these people are when they sit at a keyboard literally miles away from the people they are attacking personally and, in most cases, anonymously.  What I am also very sure of is that these same attackers wouldn’t have the guts to say face to face what they write on these blogs (and that includes some of the long time bloggers).

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 05, 2008 at 1123 hrs




5. I try to engage in substantive debates on Blogger Beer. I can not say I have never stooped to petty personal attacks but stay away from them and mostly succeed.

   Funny thing is I picked up a commenter who relished those types of attacks and this caused me to turn on comment moderation and finally I had to resort to even more drastic measures.

   I have another commenter who usually engages in this sort of commenting style and I have edited a number of his comments.

   Rick Essenberg usually has good debates going on over at his blog but as he notes a number of those commenting on his blog usually are pretty personal at their homeblogs.

   Posted by Marcus Aurelius on April 05, 2008 at 1123 hrs




6. I do see a degeneration of the discussions held on many of the blogs that I tend to read. I have not replied to many but I read and learn. I am glad that you did not place blame on either side of the political spectrum as both sides have their radicals that are looking for a fight. I agree that when the discussion turns into name calling and personal attacks that those posters should be “blackballed” as necessary.

   Having said that, I hope that this will be a fair and equal vetting of information that will allow for discussion from both sides on this and other blogs. It will remain to be seen and we will be better for it if the discussion can stay civil no matter the topic.

   Now if we can get our legislature to do the same.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 05, 2008 at 1304 hrs




7. Well, I’d like to return back to the debate.  Anyone want to get a countdown going for me?

   1-21-09, I think a bunch of liberals think that’s going to be a good day for them…I’ll ensure it won’t be.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 05, 2008 at 1536 hrs




8. Whoa, Whoa, WHOA!!! Back up the bus here for one second, people are forgetting to ask one fundamental question.

   Owen has SEVEN readers?

   When did this happen?

   Posted by Michael J. Cheaney on April 05, 2008 at 1542 hrs




9. I suppose the fact that you’re the 8th commenter on this post kind of upsets the “seven readers” proposition, eh?

   Posted by Owen on April 05, 2008 at 1924 hrs




10. I suppose the fact that you’re the 8th commenter on this post kind of upsets the “seven readers” proposition, eh?

    It sure as heck doesn’t help…

    But hopefully it helps you realize that you have a much bigger impact on Wisconsin Bloggers than I think you know. (or want to admit.)

    And I also think that you have raised the bar (Hopefully) with the pledge.
    And that is sorely needed coming off of the SCOWI race…

    Keep up the EXCELLENT Work.

    Posted by Michael J. Cheaney on April 05, 2008 at 1954 hrs




11. Kruschev was right, we have turned into a classless society.
    I miss the classy people like Lucille Ball, Zsa Zsa, and Fred Mertz My dog has more class than those idiots.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 05, 2008 at 2354 hrs




12. Good post. I agree that things have gotten pretty nasty on the various blogs and forums. I think the real world has caught up with blogging. It’s unfortunate, but it was bound to happen. Also unfortunate, with the upcoming presidential election, I am afraid it is going to get worse before it gets better. I wish that people would just show some sort of respect and decency online. I find that calling those who disagree with you names, cheapens your argument. Even calling elected officials names cheapens your arguement. I don’t like Jim Doyle at all, however, I try not to lower myself to some of the names that he is called. I feel that if I call him by name, it gives some credibility to my side of the debate. Credibility, like respect needs to be earned and not bought.

    Thanks for letting me vent…. have a nice day. 

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 06, 2008 at 0310 hrs




13. [Insert uproarious laughter here.]

    I give it a week but thanks for making the nod, Owen.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 06, 2008 at 0647 hrs




14. bubba: you don’t know anything. You sleep with your sister.
    Steve Austin: I think you bionic eye is rusting. The rust is going to your brain.
    George Mitchell (retired senator from Maine?): I heard you put lobsters in your pants to get off.
    Glenn Frankovis has a funny mustache.
    Marcus Aurelius: Commodus had to clean up the mess you made.
    MoveForward is totally incapable of being retrospective.
    Kevin Binversie is just made because his parents liked his siblings better.
    Michael Cheney… I’ll get back you you later.
    Owen is so evil he threw his momma from the train.
    Steve Thompson wears womens’ undergarments.
    grumps needs to get his medication adjusted.

    I think I’m finally ready for the DailyKos
    h/t George Soros

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 06, 2008 at 1314 hrs




15. I think personal attacks, harassment, and general ugliness speak to the character of the writer.

    Whether or not the writer is posting “anonymously” is irrelevant. “Anonymous” shouldn’t mean no conscience or sense of decency. It shouldn’t mean regressing to junior high behavior.

    I have never understood how one can ignore the fact that one is communicating with another human being. Dehumanization shouldn’t be part of communication on the Internet. There’s flesh and blood behind the typed words.

    Something I’ve noticed: People seem to be drawn to the drama of the cesspool sections of the Wisconsin blogosphere. I guess straightforward commentary and civil debate isn’t as entertaining as waging or witnessing personal battles.

    Simple rule: If you wouldn’t say it to someone’s face, don’t post it.

    Posted by Mary on April 06, 2008 at 1430 hrs




16. But hopefully it helps you realize that you have a much bigger impact on Wisconsin Bloggers than I think you know. (or want to admit.)

    And I also think that you have raised the bar (Hopefully) with the pledge.

    And that is sorely needed coming off of the SCOWI race…

    Keep up the EXCELLENT Work. wink

    These are my thoughts almost exactly. I often come here looking for civil debate.  And still find it here more often than just about any place else.

    Thanks

    Posted by Mike on April 06, 2008 at 2017 hrs




17. Three cheers Owen.  I hope people start pointing out when others step over the line.  There are too many who think being provocative means being rude.

    It is frustrating when it happens “across the aisle,” but is even more ridiculous when people of the same general philosophy engage in that kind of bomb throwing.  I have been called a “tard” and a “moron” by supposed conservatices.

    I will go one step further.  I invite you and others to point out if I cross the line.  I hope you don’t mind if others do the same if you inadvertantly do it.

    Question: was their a particular post or thread that prompted this post?

    Posted by Crocodile Cage on April 07, 2008 at 0050 hrs




18. No, not really.  It’s an observation that’s been rattling around in my brain for some time now.

    Posted by Owen on April 07, 2008 at 0640 hrs




19. Bravo Owen!  I remember commenting about teaching abstinence in the thread about how expensive artificial birth control was for college students.  I chose my words carefully to make my point, but it seemed my words were so much ‘ineffective moralizing’ in the opinions by others.  I had to laugh, these oh-so-sophisticated people that openly mock those who make a point for self-control, yet their own solutions is to throw more money (and condoms) at it.  I’ve enjoyed your blog, though some threads have an ick factor to them, but it’s your blog and you write what you want to!  Excelsior!  Semper Fi!  (My dad was a Marine).

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 07, 2008 at 0857 hrs




20. Great post, Owen and I totally agree, things have gotten ugly ... when issues can not be argued, then things have turned to personal attacks and name-calling, which is sad.

    Keep up the great blog—it is one of the handful that I read on a daily basis! 

    Posted by hsgbdmama on April 07, 2008 at 1402 hrs




21. Too bad some have already started to deride Owen’s post.  Incivility will be one of the downfalls, or at least inhibitors, of this medium.

    Posted by Crocodile Cage on April 07, 2008 at 1500 hrs




22. Thank you. I am scared of writing anything anymore because certain people that disagree with me have called me names to vile to list and one person updated to me that he would find me through the internet and get me.
    I realize it probaly can not be done but what happened to listening to people with different ideas and finding commom ground. In today world you can’t be in the center on blogs anymore.
    What makes me scared is that the people involed in politics are on the blogs, This is what are country is coming too?

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 07, 2008 at 1857 hrs




23. Excellent post.  I know since I’ve started blogging I try to stick to the high road in my posts for the most part.  But I think it is also a reflection of human nature when posts or comments slip from that.

    Then again I haven’t had a ton of commentors since I don’t get the “high” traffic Owen does so I haven’t had the lengthy back and forths.

    Posted by Brad V on April 07, 2008 at 2200 hrs




24. Steve Austin started off by mentioning part of the point I wanted to make.
    From my viewpoint, the search engines which bring many blog newbies in seem to accelerate the devolution.  The word search popularity list with Alex Ashley Dupre (or whatever it was) helped show that effect.
    I often don’t comment in those topics with so much static.
    When I was here in 2004 and 2006 I thought the rest of the discussions were similar to now (here at B&S;).  Come summer I usually get too busy with car stuff, and come back for the politics news I can’t get elsewhere.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 08, 2008 at 0445 hrs




25. After reading this, I did further recall other reasons for the inevitability of this.
    As mentioned by most knowledgable people long ago, the Internet signalled the death knell of liberalism, it’s just that old school Democrats still haven’t figured it out, even after 2 decades.
    Some of it started with Rush Limbaugh, providing for the first time news without the liberal filter of MSM.  This plus the growing information transfer of the internet showed Murdock how much hunger there was for real news, thus Fox News came to be, and wallopped the pretenders like CNN and CNN Finacial out of the park.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 09, 2008 at 0324 hrs




26. Continuing…
    The exposures of the Clinton’s conspiracies, including the internet spread of the Kara Hultgreen investigation and Clinton coverup, led further to Swiftboat Kerry and Dan Blather’s venture into irrelevance.  All along liberals have grown progressively frustrated that people no longer listened to their drivel because real, unfiltered information was readily available instead.
    The blogosphere has and will continue (regretably) to become the home (victim) of the lowest common denominator, and lose the higher ground it had in the infancy.
    I would not be surprised if liberals want more legislation to better control a “fair and balanced” blogosphere, where liberals can again take over the spread of information (and control it better).

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 09, 2008 at 0358 hrs




27. Owen, you raise a valid point, but lest we all think this “incivility” is confined to us folks on the left, I refer you all to this.  If that post isn’t the very definition of incivility, then I don’t know what is.

    Posted by Zach W. on April 10, 2008 at 1836 hrs




28. Indeed.  I never meant to imply that this incivility was only a product of the Left.  It spans all political strata within the blogosphere.

    Posted by Owen on April 10, 2008 at 1956 hrs




29. ??
    Trying that link from Zach, am I supposed to think Jessica is being uncivil in saying she does not want to intercourse with bloggers who rave about with the “C” and “B” words, or that widgie is uncivil for throwing about the “C” and “B” words?  I understood widgie to be a bit liberal here.  Where am I missing the connection?

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on April 11, 2008 at 0442 hrs




30. only real men can wear pants like those

    Posted by Lasik on May 05, 2008 at 1019 hrs