Hillary Lies (and possibly commits crime)
Looks like Hillary is caught dead to rights here.
13 minutes into this and I’m thinking to myself, it’s already begun. And Owen is being the credulous obedient tool that he has been in the past, repeating this shit.
Who produced this video? And where’s the part about how many people the Clinton’s had killed in Arkansas? Or have we moved on from that already?
Christ. It’s going to be a hell of a year.
Posted by scott on October 30, 2007 at 2106 hrs
Gee, apparently I’m not the only credulous obedient tool who questions Clinton’s truthfulness.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21548813/
Posted by Owen on October 30, 2007 at 2122 hrs
Yeah, apparently not.
Posted by scott on October 30, 2007 at 2142 hrs
You don’t care at all that she has ethical issues do you Scott?
How very typical. Buy into Michael Moore’s message hook line and sinker.
love that open liberal mind!
Posted by Fred on October 30, 2007 at 2231 hrs
You don’t care at all that she has ethical issues do you Scott?
Perhaps I’m cynical but ethical issues and pols go together - it’s part of the spec.
Posted by Brian on October 31, 2007 at 0005 hrs
Wow, this is liking watching Free Republic on video. Did I see some black helicopters circling overhead around the eight minute mark?
The beauty of the internet is that every hacked-off lunatic with video editing software and a self-anointed legal expert can do a hit piece now. Certainly there are going to be legitimate questions raised about Clinton or about any candidate. But personally, I’d stick to credible news sources and stay away from the YouTube and Google Video crowd.
But hey, that’s just me.
Posted by Recess Supervisor on October 31, 2007 at 0105 hrs
Don’t fear the wing-nut videos folks. It was this kind of incessant pressure which caused people to pull behind Bill Clinton during the Lewinsky hysteria.
This will be like your friend who just broke up and you are sympathetic hearing about h ow awful the ex is the first ten or so times. But hearing about it 500 times you just fricken hate this friend and wish they would drop dead.
But you guys can’t control it so I don’t worry about bringing it up. By October voters will have a belly full of hearing about how horrible Hillary is (though I hope she doesn’t get the nod) and if it is Rudy, the Turret-like repetition of 9/11.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on October 31, 2007 at 0641 hrs
Look, I think the video is over the top but the substance of the campaign finance violations are pretty credible. She’s on a tape violating the law. Do I think the Clinton’s are the only pols who break the rules? Of course not. I am always shocked at the brazenness with which they do it and with the immediate support they recieve for the denials from people I generally beleive to be highly intelligent people. (What is the magic spell they have and where do I learn how to do it?)
As I footnote, I personally think that the laws she allegedly violated are unconsitutional.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on October 31, 2007 at 0854 hrs
I am always shocked at the brazenness with which they do it and with the immediate support they recieve for the denials from people I generally beleive to be highly intelligent people. (What is the magic spell they have and where do I learn how to do it?)
ditto
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on October 31, 2007 at 0909 hrs
Ethics and Hillary??? That ship has sailed a long time ago. She has NONE and no liberals care.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on October 31, 2007 at 1036 hrs
Sure we care. We just don’t believe a single thing you guys have to say on the subject. Because you lie. Viciously, blatantly and often. Like Recess Supervisor, I think I’ll stick to more reliable sources of information.
Posted by scott on October 31, 2007 at 1151 hrs
We just don’t believe a single thing you guys have to say on the subject. Because you lie. Viciously, blatantly and often.
**thinks back to a certain “no new taxes” speech by our guv’nor.
Right, Scott.. Right.. You just go on thinking you’re all that and a bag of chips.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on October 31, 2007 at 1210 hrs
That’s right Scott, we lie ALL the time….....Do you really want to go there? Do you?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on October 31, 2007 at 1222 hrs
I’ll go wherever you want to go.
Posted by scott on October 31, 2007 at 1439 hrs
It’s great to find so many born-again campaign finance reform advocates. I expect that the group will shortly sign a petition asking that the former Assembly Speaker begin serving the sentence imposed after his felony convictions. Or is a little consistency in the indignation asking for a bit too much?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on October 31, 2007 at 1444 hrs
Moreover here is how the Clinton’s have been able to manipulate the courts over this. I guess that kind of corruption is OK to the likes of scott and cohorts. OK until it’s used against them then they sing a different tune. Just like the pigs in Orwell’s Animal House.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on October 31, 2007 at 1710 hrs
Scott calling other people liars, that’s rich.
Posted by Fred on October 31, 2007 at 1715 hrs
Are y’all always this snippy at each other? Me I like a blog conversation that would not sound amiss at a backyard cookout.
Posted by Brian on October 31, 2007 at 1726 hrs
Usually it’s not like this but the liberals get snippy when they don’t have a real defense. Notice no one explained what was wrong with the video. All they can do is scream liar, claim it’s no big deal or point fingers at a smaller fish and say he did it too.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on October 31, 2007 at 2302 hrs
Hey Brian, interesting discussions break out here more often than not, but sometimes you have to cut through a fog of stupidity to find it.
To Owen’s credit, he’s actually got a pretty diverse readership. Although every now and again, threads get hijacked by idiots that just want to scream at each other. It’s not a one-way street either - there are liberals and conservatives both that talk a lot without having much to contribute. Just try to ignore the comments that sound too much like Free Republic or Democratic Underground. You’ll enjoy things more that way.
Posted by Recess Supervisor on October 31, 2007 at 2349 hrs
Seeing this brings back a lot of anger about the baseless personal destruction aimed at a number of Democratic politicians over the last 15 years. Bill and Hillary Clinton, sure, but also Al Gore and John Kerry and Max Cleland. No matter how baseless the accusations were, and no matter how much that was eventually proven, it still succeeded in making changing the course of the political discussion - and in many cases succeeded in turning the tide of elections.
So, no, I’m not going to waste a single moment doing research on this in an effort to discredit it. If we do that the terrorists win, you see. That’s how the game is played and I’ve seen it too many times to get sucked into it.
When reliable media sources are carrying this story, then I’ll pay attention. Until then I’ll regard it as in the same vein as the others.
I don’t trust you. And I have excellent reason.
Posted by scott on November 01, 2007 at 1352 hrs
When reliable media sources are carrying this story, then I’ll pay attention. Until then I’ll regard it as in the same vein as the others.
Will you hold that same standard for every Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-9/11_as_an_inside_job-CIA-NSA-Patriot_Act-Exxon_Mobil-Halliburton-Blackwater-Big_Pharma-Big_Insurance-Defense_Contractors-and-Vaccine_Related_Autism_in_Children conspiracy theory that comes from the likes of Media Matters, MoveOn, DaliyKos, Huffington Post, and Michael Moore?
Posted by David on November 01, 2007 at 1430 hrs
Will you hold that same standard for every Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-9/11_as_an_inside_job-CIA-NSA-Patriot_A ct-Exxon_Mobil-Halliburton-Blackwater-Big_Pharma-Big_Insuran ce-Defense_Contractors-and-Vaccine_Related_Autism_in_Childre n conspiracy theory
Sure. And as best i can recall, I always have. If anyone would like to contradict me on this, step forward.
Posted by scott on November 01, 2007 at 1452 hrs
No matter how baseless the accusations were, and no matter how much that was eventually proven, it still succeeded in making changing the course of the political discussion - and in many cases succeeded in turning the tide of elections.
Scott, that’s describing politics as usual - that stuff was not invented to bedevil Clinton and Gore in the 90s - it goes clear back to the founding of this country.
It goes back further - what do you bet that scurrilous tracts were written and passed around about Thucydides in ye old Athens? Don’t bet - there were and he was called to task because of them ... which changed the course of politics in Athens and the Peloponnesian War.
You don’t have to like it - but it’s a practice indulged by people as long as there have been politicians and it’s done by everyone regardless of political orientation.
Posted by Brian on November 01, 2007 at 1650 hrs
No, I don’t like it. I think it’s bullshit. I sure as hell won’t be found engaging in it. And if I catch you doing it I’ll call you out big-time. How’s that for not liking it?
Call me an idealist. Call me naive. But I’m not so inclined to dismiss fabricated character assassinations funded by millions of dollars as just ho-hum that’s the way it goes politics as usual. I’m sick of it.
Posted by scott on November 01, 2007 at 1942 hrs
I do remember your vigorous defense of General Petraus after the ad in the Times.
Posted by Owen on November 01, 2007 at 1948 hrs
Name-calling isn’t the same as what has been done to the Clintons, Owen, and you know it. A better analogy would be if I linked to some half-baked accusations about how Bush started the Iraq war because of his ties to the oil industry, saying soberly “looks like Bush is caught dead to rights here.” Which of course I didn’t do. Can you say the same about linking to hit piece internet videos about the Clintons?
Posted by scott on November 01, 2007 at 2151 hrs
There’s a bit of a difference, Scott. Even though the video is quite overdone, it does definitively show that Hillary lied. Whether or not that is a crime, is a subsequent discussion, but there can be no doubt that she lied. So is the video an attempt at character assassination, or did her actions assassinate her own character?
I guess what I’m trying to get at is this: I believe that it is undeniable that Hillary lied in this instance. As a presidential candidate, I think it is fair game to point out when she lies - or when any of them lie. After all, she wants to sit in arguably the most powerful office in the world. I agree with you that the video is overblown, but isn’t the message a valid political discussion?
Posted by Owen on November 01, 2007 at 2203 hrs
it does definitively show that Hillary lied.
It’s quite easy to “show” anything, true or not. Find a few people willing to embellish, leave out some critical details and wallah: instant crime! Isn’t the same “gotcha” stuff thrown at the Bush administration every other week?
As far as I’m concerned the video is complete BS until such time as it’s been investigated and reported by legitimate news media.
All I can think is: here we go. it’s not going to be about issues and policy positions, it’s going to be about this crap.
Posted by scott on November 01, 2007 at 2253 hrs
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