Germantown School District Hires PR Firm
Germantown - The Germantown School Board has approved a $15,000 contract to publicize the $16.5 million referendum that will be on the April 1 ballot, and has moved to replace its retiring superintendent.
If is is sound, then why can’t the administrators and school board, who are already paid for, make the argument to the citizenry?
Do the people campaigning against their initiatives have professionals doing their work?
Posted by scott on January 30, 2008 at 0925 hrs
The people campaigning against their initiatives are paying their professionals AND the school district’s. Supporters of the referendum need to pony up their own cash to get their message out, not the taxpayers’.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 0934 hrs
So there’s no money coming from outside the district to campaign against the school board’s initiatives?
I should hasten to add that I am inclined to raise an eyebrow at taxpayer money being used for it, but hell—when the “opposition” is ratcheting up the sophistication of their efforts, I think your side has to do the same.
Posted by scott on January 30, 2008 at 0944 hrs
The statutes specifically exempt school districts from reporting campaign expenditures because there’s is seen as “educating” the residents of their district. See this recent FoxPolitics piece, lamenting the injustice of it all.
“Taxpayer-funded” referendum education”Posted by Jo Egelhoff on January 30, 2008 at 0955 hrs
Why should they not have to go through the trouble to raise funds that opposition have to go through? Tax payer money should not be used.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1015 hrs
Do the people campaigning against their initiatives have professionals doing their work?
Why should this matter? The opposition WOULD NOT be using taxpayer money.
Posted by Michael J. Cheaney on January 30, 2008 at 1044 hrs
If an independant group that supports the refurrendum wants to use a PR firm - great, good for them. But the school district should not be spending tax payer money on a PR Firm. It might not be technically wrong but it stinks.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1110 hrs
That sounds reasonable on its face. Should they be able to do any kind of public case-making with their own budget?
Posted by scott on January 30, 2008 at 1118 hrs
Do you guys support our military’s gigantic PR budget? That is a gross misuse of our tax dollars in my opinion.
It isn’t right for any of our tax dollars going to PR, but on the otherhand I want a schoolboard to do what is right for the education of it’s students. If that includes hiring PR professionals to combat other PR professionals that might be arguing against what is right for our children’s education than so be it.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1122 hrs
Two points here. One their construction managers or architects should have provided this service. Two, when outside groups bring in professional hacks like the AFP that have deeper pockets and more experience than the local people, the locals are at a distinct disadvantage. Hiring professionals makes sense. The problem is that the money they use to educate will come from the funds needed to educate students.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1124 hrs
Do you guys support our military’s gigantic PR budget? That is a gross misuse of our tax dollars in my opinion.
Our military PR budget comes out of the Military budget.
That is an apples to oranges comparison.
Posted by Michael J. Cheaney on January 30, 2008 at 1132 hrs
Our military PR budget comes out of the Military budget.
That is an apples to oranges comparison.
It is exactly the same thing. Our money spent to promote government programs. I think it is wrong on both counts.
Money to promote education coming out of education budget, money to promote military coming out of military budget. How is that apples to oranges?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1138 hrs
And the people for the referendum didn’t have their own group? Whatever. If the WB referendum had had any support at all, they would have been able to raise their own funds in support. They didn’t, and they lost.
On a related note, I wonder how many school children will have to learn in trailers next year because the district is sending a large number of people to a conference in Orlando over the summer.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1139 hrs
One their construction managers or architects should have provided this service.
I work in the construction industry. Building and designing is our strong suit, not public relations. Even if it was dealt with as part of the construction budget, the public would have paid for it.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1145 hrs
Money to promote education coming out of education budget, money to promote military coming out of military budget. How is that apples to oranges?
Education money should be used to educate our children, pay teachers and the staffs salaries, maintain the buildings.
I do not believe it should be used to hire a PR firm, what exactly does this have to do with educating kids?
Posted by Michael J. Cheaney on January 30, 2008 at 1158 hrs
I agree with you Michael. It is unfortunate that the school board thought they should spend this money.
It just brought to mind the whole uproar the right had when the city of San Francisco denied allocating it’s resources to facilitate military advertising. Why should the tax payers in San Francisco foot the bill when the military wants to promote itself?
I don’t see how a distinction can be drawn between it being right for tax dollars spent for the promotion of the military agenda, but wrong when educators want to promote their agenda.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1212 hrs
The question is whether or not an agenda is being promoted. Certainly the school board would be appropriately spending money to advertise positions in education. I have yet to see the military advertise anything other than careers in the military. If they suddenly hired advocates for military spending I would agree with you 3rd way. I have not yet seen that advocacy, however.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1217 hrs
On a related note, I wonder how many school children will have to learn in trailers next year because the district is sending a large number of people to a conference in Orlando over the summer.
Tell us more, please. It stinks like the MPS “Chocolate Chess pieces”.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1225 hrs
I think a more accurate way to put the “tax dollars for military promotion” vs. “tax dollars for referendum promotion” argument is to ask if the military is spending those tax dollars on an ad agency or if they’re producing those slick ads in-house. My guess is that the Pentagon doesn’t have a production company capable of putting out the type of multi-million dollar ads we see on television all the time.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1249 hrs
Not one word about GSD cutting spending rather than asking for even more taxpayer money.
After our nifty little increase in Menomonee Falls last year, we are now rated the 9th highest taxed school district in the state. Thank you citizens of Menomonee Falls! The referendum was voted for by the same open-minded citizens who stole the “Vote No” and “Stop the Endless Taxing” signs from our yard.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1314 hrs
Wendy,
The local group made a concious choice to stay local, not bring outside people. The analysis was done and based on past referendums in the community if we got 5000 yes votes then we would have a good chance of passing the referendum. We had more than 5000 votes. They did the job they set out to do and more because the community is now more aware of the districts facility needs. Even clear opponents of the referendum admitted that there are needs.As for the conference that we are sending people to attend. It is the Model Schools Conference. It is, by the way, in Tampa not Orlando. The conference is going to continue to give us researched based, data driven ideas that will help us to improve our schools. You know those schools, the ones that have been recognized nationally by Newsweek. We could completely stop spending all money on anything but the absolute necesseties, but then we would not be able to keep up with the world from an educational standpoint. Remember we are not competing with Slinger, Hartford or the private schools in the area. We are competing with China. A country that makes school Compulsory for all student in government approved schools until the age of 9. China is a country were children in elementary school are fluent in English and by the time they graduate they are fluent in at least three lanaguages sometimes 4 or 5.
Our staff members are going to a conference that will give us more training and skills in making sure that West Bend kids are ready for the world of tomorrow. The conference is focusing on the best schools in the country and how they have been the best. We are creating a system here in West Bend that will be among the best in the country and will stay that way for years because the system will be ingrained within the operations of the district.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1346 hrs
Nice spin. Dizzy?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1510 hrs
i am more and more disappointed in your responses everytime we interact on this blog. I cannot help that you have a misanthropic attitude towards the school district. We do the things we do because we have a vision and a mission. We enter into initiatives because they are reseach based and data driven. It really makes no difference to me that you don’t want to believe that fact.
Nice nonresponse to my comments.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1525 hrs
Kris:
What new buildings and spending more taxpayer money are the only ways to improve learning?
It seems to me that instead of competing against other nations like China, Schools should really be competing against themselves in order to raise test scores etc.
As for the conference that we are sending people to attend. It is the Model Schools Conference. It is, by the way, in Tampa not Orlando. The conference is going to continue to give us researched based, data driven ideas that will help us to improve our schools.
I can think of a MUCH cheaper way to get the same information at a cheaper cost.
Its called the internet-well and a web-cam.
Posted by Michael J. Cheaney on January 30, 2008 at 1550 hrs
I can think of a MUCH cheaper way to get the same information at a cheaper cost.
Its called the internet-well and a web-cam.
Yeah! God knows private businesses never send people to conferences like that! They actually value their money instead of spending someone else’s, and they always choose to do this via the internet. Right, Michael? Tell it!
Posted by scott on January 30, 2008 at 1601 hrs
Scott:
Private businesses are not on the public dole (for the most part). No taxpayer money has been spent on any of my business trips.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1621 hrs
Is your district sending board members to Orlando? I put the pressure on before a couple of meetings and there were no takers on the Elmbrook board.
The conferences for board members are ridiculous. The cost to send them equals the yearly compensation for a board member.
Posted by Cindy on January 30, 2008 at 1622 hrs
Also, if the GSD tax hikes are such a wonderful idea, what do they need a PR firm for in the first place?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1622 hrs
Again another shining example of “well you can do it why can’t I?”
Well scott because the construction industry is hands on. (apparently so is the teaching profession in the last few years but thats different) :sarcasm off:
Conex (CONstruction EXpo) at State Fair Park in January isn’t exactly Vegas.
At least on a local level.
At least at construction industry trade shows we/I get to “play” on the equipment.-excavators, backhoes Dump Trucks, and the like.
Now teacher “conferences” on the other hand are what?
Lying on a lounge chair somewhere warm, next to a pool somewhere sunny?
Eating in 5 star restaurants at taxpayer expense. (ala the Greendale School district 2 years ago)
At least my trade show/conferences are fun. Slight difference between the 2.
Posted by Michael J. Cheaney on January 30, 2008 at 1626 hrs
And for the record my Business is not on the public dole either.
Posted by Michael J. Cheaney on January 30, 2008 at 1628 hrs
Again another shining example of “well you can do it why can’t I?”
No, Michael. it’s another example of “businesses find it a worthy expenditure, but if you’re spending tax dollars it’s not.”
Just flatly saying that in-person conferences are wasteful and that it should always be done via the internet is bullshit. Other organizations do it all the time for the simple reason that it’s often the most effective way to get what you need from the conference. Denying the school district this opportunity based on that kind of reasoning makes no sense.
Posted by scott on January 30, 2008 at 1631 hrs
Mike,
Why is it that you feel that people in education go to conferences to do nothing? I can tell you that as board members we receive a report from the conference and the plans for implementation of the new ideas. Then we as a board will be given a report to show evidence and results of the new ideas implemented. When I attended conferences as a member of private business I was never required to do any of that. We have a limit as to the money that can be expensed. (no five star restaurants) The only conference that our board members attend is in Milwaukee at the WASB state convention.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1638 hrs
Kris,
Many people in this community are very disappointed in the mismanagement of the school district by Pat Herdrich and the school board. All the complaining about there being no money for education and crumbling buildings seems very disingenuous when there are many teachers and administrators going to tourist destiniations to “save” education.
How many teachers, administrators, and support staff are going on this trip?
How much is it going to cost?
What is the hotel rate?
How much is the airfare?
Are the attendees going sharing hotel rooms?
What is the fee for each person attending this conference?
What is the per diem that each person will be able to spend?
How much of this information is ONLY available at this particular conference?
How many other conference requests have been denied because this conference is taking up so much of the budget?
How many kids will have to suffer in the trailers because Pat Herdrich is spending the money on this trip?
Can it be done better, cheaper?I don’t care one bit if you are “disappointed” in me. Good grief. YOU are the one who is supposed to be asking these questions of the administration, and yet you can’t even get your lips off of Pat Herdrich’s butt long enough to represent the tax payers of the school district. You are the one in whom we are disappointed.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1641 hrs
Scott:
What we are trying to say is that the school districts should budget for the meetings, not simply raise taxes again, and again and again and again. Our company has over 92 meetings (trade shows) per year. Each and every is budgeted for. When funds are tight, we drop a show, get a smaller booth, or drop a few attendees. We don’t go crying for more funds.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1641 hrs
Well OK your a teacher, what exactly is covered at these conferences that cannot be covered via the www.?
Private businesses on a yearly basis are usually looking for ways to decrease costs.
School districts (and other Taxpayer funded entities) on the other hand seem to say “Give us more money, but don’t ask where its going”
Posted by Michael J. Cheaney on January 30, 2008 at 1642 hrs
Kris:
I am not saying that all conferences are bad. I am sure there are great things that come out of them.
However it just seems to me that in times where school districts are wanting to tax more, And taxpayers are screaming enough already, Schools districts should be looking for ways to get more bang for the buck so to speak. Or to put another way do more with less.
Just like the taxpayer is forced to do when school districts increase their levies.
I mean like it or not taxpayers hold government and school districts to higher standards because we are footing the bill. And these are questions that by all rights we should be allowed to ask.
Posted by Michael J. Cheaney on January 30, 2008 at 1653 hrs
Okay, I can hear that. But it didn’t sound like asking anything. It sounded like you were saying that such conferences were obviously frivolous, and would only be done by people spending taxpayer money. Clearly that’s not true.
I don’t have a clue whether that school district is managed well or poorly, or whether they have enough money or not. I have no opinion on that. I only know what I heard was sounding like BS.
Posted by scott on January 30, 2008 at 1656 hrs
I will answer a number of points at once. i am not a teacher I am a school board member. The cost of conferences is budgeted and must align with our leverage points. If I remember correctly eight members of the East HS leadership team are going to the conference. They will be sharing rooms. We have a person that looks for the best prices in all of those areas questioned. Pat will not be going. We will have kids in trailers whether we send people to a conference or not. The cost of the conference will not come close to the $80,000 it will cost to set and hook up a trailer. I do ask these questions and the answers I have received are satisfactory and I believe that the results that we have demonstrated academically show that the money we have spent has been well spent.
I am also pragmatic enough to know that no matter what I say there are people that will say any money spent is too much. These are the same people that say they believe that West Bend has good schools but in the next breath say thank god for private schools. They are at best disingenuous. Their analysis of the issues facing our district are shallow and rudimentary. They think that if we just spend all of our time going through the Accts Payable line by line we will have the best run district possible. One of the major jobs of any board is to think strategically and with vision. We have been doing that for my time on the board.
Finally, Pat Herdrich is one of the single best things that has ever happened to this district. She and I have disagreements on a regular basis. Just because we choose not to do it on camera at board meetings or at times when the press can report it does not mean that it does not happen.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1701 hrs
If I remember correctly eight members of the East HS leadership team are going to the conference.
So that’s what, about $4000 for the conference itself. What’s the per diem for food? Another $1000 or so for airfare. Another $1000 or so for rooms? If it’s this conference - http://www.modelschoolsconference.com/ the it is being held at the WDW Swan and Dolphin, in Orlando, and not Tampa. Can we also assume that the attendees are getting paid for their time at this three day conference? What about transportation - car rentals I assume?
Why 8 people? Are there 8 different tracks or sessions going on at the same time? That seems like a large number to write a report.
Uh oh, it also looks like the conference videos could be purchased. The 2007 conference videos are for sale at the leadered.com store. For quite a bit less ~ $700 dollars. Then you could have a 3 day inservice during the summer, and have everyone see it, not just the “elite eight”. These are all things that most private businesses would ask before allowing money to be spent - regardless of what Scott might say here. He is being ridiculous again -trying to derail yet another thread with strawmen and hyperbole.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1719 hrs
i am more and more disappointed in your responses everytime we interact on this blog.
Then do us all a favor and stay out of here.
Im sure WEAC has a nice blog that will agree with all you say.
Scott your are a butthead.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1735 hrs
OT,
I will do just that.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1740 hrs
Good to hear..
Now can you convince Scott the Butthead to do the same!!!
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1748 hrs
Okay, so here are my conservative calculations:
Conference admission (if they only go to the conference itself and not any of the other stuff): $500 x 8 = $4000
Airfare to Orlando (from Travelocity, Milwaukee to Orlando): $225 x 8 = $1800
Rental minivan x 5 days (conservatively): $225
Hotel (Cheapest recommended hotel: $159, assuming tax exempt and double occupancy and a five night stay): $2554
Per diem ($35 –conservatively—x 8 travelers x 5 days): $1400Grand total: a minimum of $9,979 of my tax dollars and for what? To make our schools more like schools that Kris Beaver said himself do not live up to the standards of schools in China. Nice.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1804 hrs
Wendy,
Don’t forget that the 2007 conference is now a video set you can purchase for under $700. Seems that being able to rewind, fast forward, and show it to anyone and everyone who wants to see it (Hell put it in the library for anyone to use), is quite a benefit for at least a tenth of the cost.
Just an example of wasteful spending. The intent might be very honorable (I’m not going to waste my time debating that), but I think it’s safe to say there are cheaper and smarter ways to get the same information as flying across the country.
Oh yeah, Kris, if my wife using the budgeting techniques you are using to defend the travel, I’d be living in a cardboard box. Think about it… Say I only have $1000 in my checking account, and have a $1200 mortgage payment. I, using your techniques, could just go to the bar and spend the money, since $1000 is not enough to pay the mortgage. It’s this type of blatant disregard for fiscal thought that upsets the taxpayers.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1813 hrs
Kris,
Its nice to see that your using our tax dollars to blog here, or at the very least to check replies to your posts.
.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) is property of the taxpayers, Yes?
Better watch it, we might do an open records request and see exactly how your are using your email..
Might be interesting…
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1930 hrs
Nothing like a good old fashioned threat to keep the miscreants out.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 1959 hrs
Scott your are a butthead.
...your are using your email..
Heh. Careful who you’re calling a butthead.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2008 at 2018 hrs
To return to the original topic, I must agree that the mere idea of having to “educate” the poor, unintelligent taxpayers is insulting. The “educational” materials produced by the West Bend administrators contained numerous exaggerations and provided the cost in the most disguised way possible. That was the reason that AFP stepped in and provided the real cost information. Our taxing entities already take enough of our money - they don’t need to do marketing and advertising to try to convince us to give up more.
Kris - My concern with the attendance at conferences like the one Wendy mentioned is that the administration simply comes home with the latest set of theories from the education establishment - the “greatest ideas for 2008”. I sat through the High School reports at the November board meeting and it sounded like experiments were being conducted. I heard that last year, certain “new” theories were tried (probably based on the 2007 seminar circuit)...and that we saw how the students fared…this year, we’ll try a whole bunch of new ideas and see what happens. I hope the China trip showed them one important thing - that it is the commitment of the families and dedication of the individual students that translates into real results…not the educational theories and new buildings. Maybe less seminars and more common sense? - personally, I think that applies to most businesses as well.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 31, 2008 at 0157 hrs
OverTaxed In WIS, name calling does not add anything to this conversation. Additionally it’s just plain rude.
Grow up.
Posted by Matt on January 31, 2008 at 0946 hrs
Yeah. And actually I think I’m a little more like Beavis.
Heh heh. Heh heh heh.
Posted by scott on January 31, 2008 at 0953 hrs
They have been planning this whole thing since back in September when they went to the “building committee” and asked them to “look into” a new school.
Why are there no alternatives to this plan? It seems just like the whole West Bend/Elmbrook/... thing - shoot for the moon and then come back after the referendum loses and see what you can get from there.
Also - if you look carefully at the data provided by the school district - growth in students has been almost flat for the last 5 years. Who is going to fill up this new school?
That’s why they need to hire a PR firm. The fact that they do so at taxpayer expense just show how little regard they have for the people who actually pay for all this crap… me, a resident of Germantown.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 31, 2008 at 1015 hrs
Matt,
Take a look at Scott’s comments they = Butthead.
Its his calling card…
Take a look at his blog.
again = Butthead
Its not name calling, its a comment on him as a whole.
He is a butthead.
I took a look at your website and your not quite a butthead.
I would say you qualify for one cheek. Not quite a whole butthead yet.. But keep trying.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 31, 2008 at 1627 hrs
Grow up overtaxed. The only person appreciative of your name calling is you.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 31, 2008 at 1633 hrs
I’ve maintained my good humor so far, but I’m done now. Aside from some sarcasm around comment 25, I haven’t insulted anyone in this thread.
Overtaxed, if you have nothing of value to contribute to the discussion i recommend that you keep quiet and not resort to juvenile name calling.
Posted by scott on January 31, 2008 at 1635 hrs
They have been planning this whole thing since back in September when they went to the “building committee” and asked them to “look into” a new school. There must be another alternative to this plan?
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