Felonious Hunting

This is troubling, but probably not for the reason that the reporter wants me to be troubled. 

Dozens of convicted felons in Wisconsin were issued gun deer hunting licenses in 2006 despite a state law that bans them for life from possessing firearms.

The state, meanwhile, does not prohibit felons from buying gun hunting licenses and makes no effort to monitor if felons are purchasing them, the Journal Sentinel found.

[...]

In response to questions from the Journal Sentinel, Rep. Terry Musser (R-Black River Falls) said he plans to draft a bill next month that would mandate background checks of all firearm hunting license applicants. The bill would include penalties for felons who are found to have purchased licenses.

Honestly, it doesn’t really bother me that we don’t check to see if someone is a felon before getting a hunting license.  Yes, it’s illegal for them to do and if they are caught hunting, then they should be punished.  But I don’t see an increased danger to society from the fact that some felons are hunting and it doesn’t seem that the cost to check every applicant’s criminal record would outweigh the societal benefit.  It’s not like the lack of a hunting license is going to keep a gun out of the hands of a felon who wants to kill someone. 

On the other hand, I am not keen on the clerk at Fleet Farm doing a background check on me when I’m buying my hunting license.  It’s far too intrusive.

1. If I were an R&B;singer, I think I’d use Felonious Hunting as my stage name.  It has a nice ring to it.

   Posted by Recess Supervisor on October 31, 2007 at 0749 hrs




2. I was thinking more of a porn movie with Matt Damon.

   Posted by Owen on October 31, 2007 at 0755 hrs




3. Another non-problem that the State is going to fix by invading my privicy just a little bit more.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on October 31, 2007 at 0757 hrs




4. On a positive note… they actually registered.  I mean… the felons you’d be concerned about are the ones who wouldn’t bother to register, and would do it illegally right?  Part of getting back into society and all that.

   Posted by Nick on October 31, 2007 at 0829 hrs




5. I was thinking more of a porn movie with Matt Damon.

    

   
   reaaaaaaallly????????

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on October 31, 2007 at 0845 hrs




6. I wouldn’t spend a nickel checking this either, but if I were to check, it would seem to be far simpler to do a background check on convicted felons once a year to see if they’ve been issued a license rather than vice versa.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on October 31, 2007 at 0904 hrs




7. The Dems should be all over this.  Felons can buy a license but are unable to hunt.  SO WHAT!  It is just a little more tax money for them to spend on bike trails and such.  It is already illegal and if they are caught during the season with a gun, there are STIFF penalties.  What good is going to do to add more legislation?  What are we as citizens of WI going to get from it?  Less money, another gubment system that will cost money, this just seems ridiculous.  If the Felon is that stupid then so be it.
   It seems to me “ALICE” or whatever the name of the DNR system, was going to get fathers who were behind in child support.  I do not believe that worked to well either.  I do remember it costing a pretty penny.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on October 31, 2007 at 0905 hrs




8. Yet another problem created by the retarded concept that you can prevent crime by passing a law to regulate a criminal who has proven that they are already willing to ignore law in the first place.

   Brilliant…. 

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on October 31, 2007 at 0907 hrs




9. Imagine opening up B&S;this morning to read this:

   Honestly, it doesn’t really bother me that we don’t check to see if someone is a felon before getting a ballot.  Yes, it’s illegal for them to do and if they are caught voting, then they should be punished.  But I don’t see an increased danger to society from the fact that some felons are voting and it doesn’t seem that the cost to check every applicant’s criminal record would outweigh the societal benefit.  It’s not like the lack of a driver’s license is going to keep a ballot out of the hands of a felon who wants to vote for someone.

   Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on October 31, 2007 at 1034 hrs




10. Not 100% sure here but I don’t actually think it is against the law for a felon to hunt.  It’s only against the law for them to hunt with a gun. I think they can still hunt with a bow.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on October 31, 2007 at 1127 hrs




11. Yep, I was right.

    See this link:
    http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wildlife/faq/felon/ Q3.htm

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on October 31, 2007 at 1143 hrs




12. Everyone in a hunting party is supposed to have a license.  Even if it’s a “convicted felon” brother, uncle, father, relative that is just pounding the ground driving the brush.  If these individuals don’t break the law (with a gun) and only go hunting to help their friends and family who does this harm?

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on October 31, 2007 at 1200 hrs




13. So I read this as;
    If you are a felon,
    You may have a hunting license.
    You can hunt.
    You can not be in posesion of a firearm.
    You can not be in the vacinity (Whatever that means) of someone with a firearm

    Also I think (I’d have to check and make sure) that you can hunt during gun season with a bow if you follow the rules for gun hunting. ie have orange on and have a gun season license.

    So given all that, I don’t understand why selling a hunting license to a felon is a big deal anyhow.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on October 31, 2007 at 1243 hrs




14. Didn’t a convicted felon with a valid hunting license murder someone with a hunting rifle a little while ago?  It would have been nice to be able to have one more safe guard.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on October 31, 2007 at 1321 hrs




15. It would have been nice to be able to have one more safe guard.

    Not sure what you mean. Are you saying it SHOULD be illegal for a felon to be able to get a hunting license? and that maybe that “Safe guard” would have stopped a murder?

    I don’t understand what the hunting license would have to do with that.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on October 31, 2007 at 1330 hrs




16. Not sure what you mean. Are you saying it SHOULD be illegal for a felon to be able to get a hunting license? and that maybe that “Safe guard” would have stopped a murder?

    I don’t understand what the hunting license would have to do with that.

    I think the logic there is that some guy who is a convicted felon and was willing to break the law to possess a firearm, was also willing to break the law and MURDER someone, but they would respect the law when it came to obtaining a hunting license if it was illegal for a felon to do so… 

    VERY logical… 

    Also I think (I’d have to check and make sure) that you can hunt during gun season with a bow if you follow the rules for gun hunting. ie have orange on and have a gun season license.

    Bow season closes before the deer-gun season.  Closes Nov. 15, reopens the 26th

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on October 31, 2007 at 1347 hrs




17. Thanks for the laugh, Owen. Our reps are like little gerbils, with pens.

    Posted by tee bee on October 31, 2007 at 1456 hrs




18. OK, Some interesting things I found in the DNR Hunting regulation handbook.

    Here is the link:
    http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wildlife/regs/Deer07.pdf

    1. Legal archery equipment may be used from September 15–March 31, 2008. Firearms may only be used from October 13–21 and November 17–March 31, 2008.  (Page 9)
    (I would read that to mean you can use a bow during gun season)

    2. All participants (Of a hunting group) must be licensed and each must possess a firearm. (Page 15 under group hunting rules)
    (I would think that rules out Felons from hunting in a group.

    3. Convicted felons cannot participate in group deer hunting or allow use of their tag by anyone else. Deer drivers are not required to possess firearms or hunting licenses. (Also Page 15 under Group hunting rules)
    (So you don’t have to have a license to drive the deer or have a gun but Felons are still ruled out. Probably because they would have to be in the vicinity of other guns.)

    Well, I’ve been through this now with a fine toothed comb and I see that the archery season does indeed stop from Nov 16th through the 25th but if you can use archery equipment during this time period I guess you would need a Gun hunting license to do it.
    (shrug) Nobody ever said the DNR had clearly written and understood rules.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on October 31, 2007 at 1523 hrs




19. The story seems to have been planted by DNR personnel in hopes that they will have more things to do—added functionality:  MORE JOBS FOR DNR!!!  After all, what we need is more Damn Near Russia agents and bureaucrats on the State payroll.  Full-time.  Union.  Good bennies and retirement.

    And that “scary encounter” with a hunter/felon in possession?  Probably the ONLY “scary story” that DNR wardens could come up with. Trust me, if there had been more “scary stories” they would ALL have been printed.

    Two of them with pistols.  One hunter with a rifle.  About 10 yards’ separation.

    Hell, if I were the hunter/felon-in-possession, I’d have dropped the rifle and hit the ground…

    Posted by dad29 on October 31, 2007 at 2059 hrs




20. Dirk, after the entertainment of your post, I checked with a family member who is an avid, annual bow hunter—and he says the rules really are a lot simpler than they sound.  The DNR could use editors.

    He also says that bow hunters, even when allowed in overlapping seasons, avoid being out their with the drunks with the guns who can’t see flame orange 10 feet in front of them because of all the alcohol so many consume as part of the “sport,” at least in this state.

    Apparently a sober felon is less worrisome than a law-abiding-the-rest-of-the-year but but armed drunk in hunting season, since Wisconsin’s idea of social drinking constitutes alcoholism in most other states.  And he says that even if you don’t get shot by a drunk, you still have to deal with sharing the road with them as drunk drivers.

    So apparently a sober felon behind the wheel also is less worrisome than too many Wisconsin “hunters,” just using it as an excuse to drink.  (Sounds like quite a class war between bow hunters and gun shooters.)

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on October 31, 2007 at 2124 hrs




21. drunks with the guns who can’t see flame orange 10 feet in front of them because of all the alcohol so many consume as part of the “sport,” at least in this state.

    Give it a rest Kay… I’ve been hunting for 20 years (since I was 12)

    From Walworth county, Racine, Kenosha, up to Vilas county and everywhere in between.  Deer Gun, Deer Bow, Pheasant, Duck, small game, you name it.  I have YET to come across a drunk hunter in the field or woods.

    So take your uniformed “hearsay” and go paint your made up stories elsewhere.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on October 31, 2007 at 2151 hrs




22. I agree with that.  Everyone that I have ever hunted with were extreme sticklers about drinking on the hunt.  Nobody wants to get shot. 

    Now at the end of the day…

    Posted by Owen on October 31, 2007 at 2209 hrs




23. XX, it’s not uninformed hearsay in that case—I lived in rural Waukesha on a farm where we had hunters with guns on private, posted property repeatedly.  Walking right past our windows.  And if they weren’t drunk, then they were just naturally rude in their behavior when asked to leave.

    Another reason I was glad to get back to the city—although it would help if the drunks here had to wear flame orange to be spotted sooner.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 01, 2007 at 0728 hrs




24. I lived in rural Waukesha on a farm where we had hunters with guns on private, posted property repeatedly.  Walking right past our windows.  And if they weren’t drunk, then they were just naturally rude in their behavior when asked to leave.

    Ok, so now rude = drunk?

    At best, your accounts are anecdotal, at worst, you are just a typical east side liberal who hates guns, anything to do with them, and doesn’t accept the fact that its legal to drink AND its legal to drink and drive.

    And lastly… Given the obstinate attitude you demonstrate here, I’m SURE that you were just a pile of politeness when you came out and hollered at people for being on private property.  Rude is often met with rude.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 01, 2007 at 0943 hrs




25. XX, it’s not uninformed hearsay in that case—I lived in rural Waukesha on a farm where we had hunters with guns on private, posted property repeatedly.  Walking right past our windows.  And if they weren’t drunk, then they were just naturally rude in their behavior when asked to leave.

    Your first ‘account’ was clearly stated from:

    after the entertainment of your post, I checked with a family member who is an avid, annual bow hunter—and he says

    That my good friend is hearsay…

    When I called it hearsay, you threw out an anecdotal story about ‘rude hunters’ and equated them to drunks, though giving no evidence they were other than that they were rude.

    I’m sure you’ll now come back with a tale of how they staggered off and puked on your rose bushes too…

    You’re just swinging at air.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 01, 2007 at 0948 hrs




26. XX, I was there to smell their breath; they were drunk.  In the morning.  You can bet that my husband was polite, though, as it’s always wise to tread softly around drunks with guns.

    As for your points on this debate, let’s see:  You and Owen provide anecdotal accounts.  So I considered various means of reply but held to your setup with a similarly anecdotal account.

    I could have replied with the statistics . . . but you wanted to avoid those, so I will do so, too. 

    But as for your claim that it’s legal to drink and drive?  Talk about swinging at air!  Just where in Wisconsin is it legal to drink and drive?  You now have proved yourself to be a fool.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 01, 2007 at 1210 hrs




27. Kay,

    I was just relaying my personal experience.  I appreciate that yours might be different.  I have heard stories of drunk hunters too, but I would walk away if anyone I hunted with ever drank during the hunt.  I value my life.  Honestly, I don’t know how many hunters drink and hunt.  But I think, and hope, that of the 600,000 hunters every year that a tiny fraction are the idiots who drink.

    Posted by Owen on November 01, 2007 at 1225 hrs




28. XX, I was there to smell their breath; they were drunk.  In the morning.

    Ahh… Gotcha… NOW they had alcohol on their breath…

    You didn’t seem so sure before:

    And if they weren’t drunk, then they were just naturally rude in their behavior when asked to leave.

    But as for your claim that it’s legal to drink and drive?  Talk about swinging at air!  Just where in Wisconsin is it legal to drink and drive? 

    Last time I checked the legal limit was .08

    SO it is PERFECTLY legal to consume alcohol and drive…

    You now have proved yourself to be a fool

    I guess not eh?

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 01, 2007 at 2250 hrs




29. But getting back to the original point of these comments.  I bought Guitar Hero III tonight and Owen, I named my band Felonious Hunting.  Thank you for your creative genius.

    Posted by Recess Supervisor on November 01, 2007 at 2334 hrs




30. Yes, XX, I smelled alcohol on their breaths.  But I didn’t have a breathalyzer, so I didn’t know if they were drunk—or just rude.

    Got it now?  Being careful to not make such assumptions is beyond you, apparently—since you seem to think that you can know exactly when you reach 0.7.  Amazing.  You could hire out to police departments and save ‘em a lotta money for machines.

    But please take the next step now, with your uncanny abilities, and predict for us all where you will be driving, so we can steer clear.  Put it this way: We lack your uncanny ability so won’t know if you’re up to 0.8 and drunk—but we will know that you’re a fool, if you think you have an internal breathalyzer.

    And fools, like drunks, ought not be allowed to drive.  Or have guns.  Or have computers. . . .

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 04, 2007 at 2325 hrs




31. Kay..

    I’m not going to spar with you… There’s no sport in it..

    You said it was illegal to drink and drive.

    It is not.

    Driving drunk is illegal.  Drinking and driving is perfectly legal.  I’m sorry you can’t accept that.  Some day you’ll probably get your way… until then you’ll just have to live with the fact that your freedom raping government hasn’t yet taken control of every aspect of our lives. 

    But as I’ve mentioned in other threads…  I don’t know why you are so uptight… the trend is moving your direction.  Be happy… Have a beer… Or a latte, or whatever east-side liberals drink.

    Posted by (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 05, 2007 at 1049 hrs




32. xxpilot i don’t know what’s your opinion about life but i’m sure i don’t want to be with my car in traffic when you’re driving (of course drunk)

    Posted by colorado river rafting on March 22, 2008 at 1219 hrs