Exporting Renewable Energy?
What the heck does this even mean?
“We can remain the world’s leading importer of foreign oil, or we can become the world’s leading exporter of renewable energy.”
How do you export renewable energy? We can export oil, natural gas, or coal, but how do we export wind, sun, or hydroelectric dams? I presume he isn’t talking about nuclear. He could be talking about the technology to extract energy from renewable sources, but that has a very limited economic life span. We can export the knowledge to produce a solar cell or design a dam, but once knowledge is exported, we lose exclusivity of it.
Coal can’t be produced out of thin air. It exists in certain spots and those who own it can sell it. Those who don’t own it have to buy it. Simple as that. Sun, wind, and moving water exist everywhere on earth. Is Obama going to export our sunlight to Antarctica during the dark winter months via a massive mirror array? Or is he saying that we’re going to hook our power grid to those of Canada and Mexico and export the actual energy produced from renewable sources?
Can anyone explain what Obama is saying?
Well a lot of times when your country is the country in which the original developer of a particular technology resides your country will likely be the country from which that developer will set up manufacturing of that technology. As the initial developer and manufacturer you tend to have a built in marketing and production advantage that you can exploit to become an industry leader. In many cases this can lead to the exportation of the product, some times because you become the household name brand.
Anyone can make a motorcycle, but there is only one Harley, and people ride them all over the world. Apply a similar concept to a break through in wind, solar or even nuclear technology.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 23, 2009 at 1627 hrs
I’m pretty sure the US and Canadian power grids are linked so there’s no reason we couldn’t export power to them.
Posted by Dave Reid on March 23, 2009 at 1631 hrs
The second comment makes sense and applies to Mexico if the price is right.
The first comment makes no sense at all.
I suppose he could be talking about ethanol, which would make his comment totally crazy.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 23, 2009 at 1648 hrs
Unless you are selling power on the grid to another country (like Mexico or Canada) there is no way to export renewable energy. There is nothing to export.
In response to Lefty, who is obviously clueless to the realities of manufacturing (or theft of intellectual property by China)... You can build a solar panel or a wind turbine anywhere. It actually makes more economic sense to manufacture them in low-cost countries or close to the country of use - and they are. Manufacture of these products is being ramped up in Eastern Europe and Asia already.
If anyone really thinks that Wind and Solar are going to create a gazillion new American jobs as they reminisce about the good old days of the New Deal and the post WWII middle class boom…. well, reality will bite you in the hiney soon enough.
It should also be mentioned that while wind and solar can supplement the energy supply, they are not base-load capable. As an example - it would take more than 1500 wind turbines to equal the output of one 1.5 GW nuclear reactor or coal/natural gas plant. Since wind power is only 30% efficient (the turbines aren’t always turning) you need the nuke/coal/gas plant in addition to the wind turbines to ensure consistent supply. Unless you like the idea of only having your household have electricity 30% of the time.
Bottom line - the lifecycle of a nuke or coal/gas plant - from raw materials, to construction, to supply of whatever fuel, to the people required to run and maintain them, will create and keep real-live good-paying, non-exportable jobs and reliable energy production in the USA. Wind and Solar - not so much.
Add in that the Kennedy’s don’t want wind in their view of the ocean and Feinstein doesn’t want solar in the Mohave, me thinks we have just a bunch of power-hungry, NIMBY, morons in charge of energy policy.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 23, 2009 at 1832 hrs
JJ: Great point about the wind power. Also consider this, What would the square footage, i.e. acreage be for 1,500 wind turbines?
What a waste of buildable, tillable, forestable, land. How do these morons get the power to say no to nuke plants and other sound ideas? This just ain’t right.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 23, 2009 at 2003 hrs
In response to Lefty, who is obviously clueless to the realities of manufacturing (or theft of intellectual property by China)... You can build a solar panel or a wind turbine anywhere. It actually makes more economic sense to manufacture them in low-cost countries or close to the country of use - and they are. Manufacture of these products is being ramped up in Eastern Europe and Asia already.
A quick google search shows most of the top manufacturers of wind turbines and solar panels are in the US, Western Europe and Japan. Funny how the reality of business development is still local. Overseas exportation of jobs takes a significant amount of time to develop on your own. Moving call centers and the like to countries that have businesses that have developed to cater to that type of business customer is one thing. Opening up new manufacturing plants, or even more so, start up manufacturers, for a new product thousands of miles from where you or your company is based is something entirely different.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 23, 2009 at 2004 hrs
Um, that’s because China is making major investments in coal and hydroelectric power, because it has substantial quantities of both. Japan is devoid of oil or coal and the US and Europe are trying to live our environmentalist eutopia. A wind turbine plant in China would only have a market in the US or Europe.
Posted by Owen on March 23, 2009 at 2013 hrs
Can anyone explain what Obama is saying?
I doubt that Obama can explain what Obama is saying. Giggle.
Lefty, you ignorant…......twit.
“Wind turbine manufacturers….located in the US…” That Google lookup tells you only that the brand-name and design-holder is domestic.
In fact, VERY few of the components are actually Made in the USA. The poles, yes (in Wisconsin.) And some of the propellers, in California.
The internals and most of the stamped/commodity parts are made in PRChina or Mexico.
Posted by dad29 on March 23, 2009 at 2016 hrs
Lefty - Harley is about branding - not about motorcycles. You don’t brand a commodity.
This is more double speak from Obama - gleefully asborbed by his dullard followers.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 23, 2009 at 2054 hrs
I think that what Obama is saying is that we build these huge storage batteries, mount them in ships, and ship the electricity to countries that don’t have any.
Well, it makes as much sense as sending a letter to the wrong president of France.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 23, 2009 at 2133 hrs
I am guessing what he means is to invest in and develop the technologies for renewable energies and share the knowlwdge so other countries can benifit, but thats just a guess. If you want to agrue the symantics and how illogical it sounds I suggest you read through some of our previous leaders eight years of speeches it wont take long for you to find mind numbing quotes.
If this is what you want to argue over I feel confident it will be a long time before conservatives are in power again.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 24, 2009 at 0013 hrs
Marine, when you get sick of the way that Obama is criticized, remember that for 8 years the libs wrote the rules on what is fair cause and means of criticism of the president. “Hey, we’re just following the libs rules. Criticism is patriotism.” And all that other bunk.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 24, 2009 at 0713 hrs
Liberal Marine. That’s an oxymoron.
Your new teleprompter in chief is an idiot. I *love* how he wanted to make vets pay for their own medical care. Oh, and the new plan to seize private companies before they fail…that one is great too. Jackass is a full out communist.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 24, 2009 at 0929 hrs
Very simple! Even many individuals who have wind or sun energy (like farmers, etc.), have an oversupply at times. They sell it to power companies. Same could be true when we have the country as a whole using a great deal of renewables they could, now and then, have an oversupply and sell it. What’s so mysterious about that?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 24, 2009 at 1054 hrs
John, you and Lefty must have gone to the same public school.
The individuals that currently co-generate with a private wind turbine or solar panel are miniscule suppliers therefore their “excess” energy is absorbed by the grid. These same individuals are taking from the grid during cloudy/rainy/not windy/too windy days.
There is no efficient battery technology to “store” the excess power for export unless the buyer is hooked up to the grid. By the same, there is no way to “store” power for use later. Hence the reason that wind/solar are not efficient or base-load capable.
All of this is fantasy.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 24, 2009 at 1129 hrs
The best way to export renewable energy is to bundle up all of h those damn windmills and send them up to Canada.
I had some engineers figure out how many windmills it would take to replace Point Beach Nuclear a few years back.
The answer: One windmill 1,000 miles in diameter or 1,000 windmills 1 mile in diameter.
It is not an accident that Shell oil is tossing all of their work on solar and wind, it just doesn’t work unless you are in a windy desert.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 24, 2009 at 1922 hrs
Wind powers has some serious limitations that are unlikely to be overcome on a large scale.
For solar power, the obvious thing to do is get rid of the grid. Battery storage does exist that would allow for individual homes to be powered at night absent sunlight. Solar doesn’t have to get much more efficient for this to become practical. At that point all we would be talking about is generating supplemental power for industry and large buildings unable to generate their own power.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 25, 2009 at 1449 hrs
Who do you think uses more power - homes or industry?
(Big hint - a couple of large rock crushers can gooble up all the power put out by a reserve power plant)
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 25, 2009 at 1505 hrs
That’s sort of my point, Bill. Homes are capable of generating their own power now, and in the near future will probably be able to do so quite easily with solar power. When that occurs you can disconnect the homes from any grid and your need for additional generation is far less. Residential sales are about 35% of electrical power sales.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 25, 2009 at 1526 hrs
BV - your scenario only works in certain geographic locals. Great for Phoenix and Vegas and Miami. Not so great for Seattle or Anchorage or Milwaukee.
There are also the “Laws of Unintended Consequences” - i.e. - the expense and resources required for the photovoltaic cells and the battery packs (which do lose their ability to store charges after time like your cell phone and laptop batteries do). Not to mention that damn near every battery is mfr’d in Asia because no environmental group in the US would allow a battery plant to be built here. Again - not so many jobs.
Until the technology improves dramatically and these can be manufactured efficiently and inexpensively, Solar co-generation is a niche market for the environmental true believers and the wealthy.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on March 25, 2009 at 1730 hrs
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