Saturday, August 28, 2004

Delegate Stats

Here are some interesting stats about the GOP convention delegates.  This one really jumped out at me.

58% of the Republican delegates have incomes of $75,000 or above annually, compared to 33% of Republican voters nationally.

I guess that the Republicans really are the party of the rich. 

Oh, wait…. there’s more….

61% of Democratic delegates had income of $75,000 or higher.

(10) Comments
Posted by Owen at 1953 hrs
Politics + Politics - General

  1. I think there’s research that links income level to political involvement - higher income correlates positively with political activity. I think higher levels of education do too, and of course income and education are linked as well.

    I think it is a real problem in our country that people who are not as highly educated and not as well off financially don’t participate more. Regardless of party.

    Posted by hope on August 28, 2004 at 2138 hrs


  2. I think that the problem is that poor folks have all but been removed from the tax rolls.  Since they don’t have a stake in the government through their tax burden, they are less likely to get interested in politics.  It’s really easy to become interested in how the government spends when they take 50% of your wages.

    Posted by Owen on August 29, 2004 at 0936 hrs


  3. 50 percent?

    Our effective federal rate last year, after lower-than-average deductions for our income bracket, was just over 11 percent. No state income tax but a sales tax of 8.25 percent, although obaviously we don’t pay 8.25 percent of our income in sales tax since not all our income is spent on things subject to sales tax. Guesstimate it at 6 percent, which is still probably too high, and we’re still well under 20 percent. Plus some income isn’t taxed at all due to 401k and medical/dependent care accounts. I figure our effective overall tax rate is something less than 15 percent once you take into account untaxed income.

    Maybe the tax thing plays into political activity, although if you’re poor enough not to pay taxes you are probably poor enough to qualify for at least some government programs. Seems like that might be as much a factor as taxes in feeling invested in how government works. But I think folks at those income levels are mostly too busy trying to figure out how to get all the bills paid and mouths fed—
    just like we all are, but with fewer resources and possibly less time if they are working more than one job and if they don’t have their own reliable vehicle to get around in. I also think most people - low income but those with higher incomes too - don’t think their involvement will make a difference. Other people just don’t understand how many ways government decisions actually affect their lives.

    Posted by hope on August 29, 2004 at 1200 hrs


  4. I’m not sure what state you’re in, but how do you get 89% of your gross pay each payday.  My SocSec Tax, Medicare Tax and Fed Tax alone account for over 25% of confiscation from my gross.  And then you somehow have some fund-stashing deal where you can bypass the SocSec Tax and Medicare Tax to boot?  That sounds sweet.  Adding my State Income Tax confiscation and I’m at over 32% of my gross.
    And that’s misleading, since the employer must “contribute” funds which match your totals of those taxes, which means the net I get from the amount my employer expends upon me each payday is at 63%.
    In WI, I think we’re around 60 cents per gallon Gas Tax, so that’s another $42 or so, for about 61%.  Sales tax is around 6% so knock another 2% off my gross to 59%.  Since I rent I don’t know how many dollars of my rent is for property taxes, but I fully expect that amount plus all the other Teaxes, “Fees,” “Contributions,” “Charges,” “Special Charges” (oops, WI laymakers have stated that Taxes labeled as “Special Charges” are actually not Taxes), I have difficulty considering that less than half my wages are being funnelled to prop up Government.
    How could people think that with over half of America’s employed on the government dole, that more than half the wages of the non-government earners aren’t being confiscated?
    I have difficulting thinking you really are getting 89% of your gross pay each paycheck, and pay no more than another 11% of your gross towards government funding.
    At least WI doesn’t have tollways.

    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 29, 2004 at 1251 hrs


  5. It isn’t at each paycheck. Its annual effective tax rate. When we do federal taxes each year, after accounting for itemized deductions, the TurboTax software we use gives an effective tax rate - meaning, how much taxes (including Medicare and SS) we paid for the year after accounting for deductions. Since we own a house and have kids and have charitable contributions, we usually end up getting a refund.

    We also have the pre-tax medical and dependent care accounts. We decide at the beginning of the fiscal year (FY for my husband’s employer, that is) how much we want deducted from his pay for the year for medical and child care expenses. They take it out of his net each month, and THEN figure taxes. I don’t think these accounts are available to most people, though - I think they have to go thru the employer.

    We live in Texas. No state tax. But the sales tax is really high.

    Posted by hope on August 29, 2004 at 1340 hrs


  6. Either we’re getting into semantics, or we have a different understanding of Taxes, of which I think Turbo Tax has a very limited scope.
    I am aware of the “pre-tax” or “tax-exempt” funds and accounts available for retirement, 401K, medical, dental, dependant care, etc.  I have them available to me as well, and I partake.  Perhaps you are not aware that these “pre-tax” and “tax-exempt” monies are taxed - the “tax-exemption” is applied only after the SocSec Tax and the Medicare Tax and the employer’s matching “Contribution” Tax are confiscated from your entire gross earnings, and THEN the Fed Income Tax and State/Local Taxes cannot be further applied to these “tax-exempt” or “pre-tax” monies.  I am certain your legislative representatives would be very happy if you continue to believe them rather than the facts.

    Getting a refund doesn’t mean much (I get 2 every year) unless, of course, the refund is about 20% of your household income - meaning all of your withholdings have been returned to you, and your actaul tax rate was reduced.

    What does TurboTax say was your effective annual taxation rate for your property Taxes?  Your fuel Taxes?  Your sales Taxes?  Your Utilities and communications Fees/Taxes?  TurboTax adds up all these Taxes and tells you they all amount to 15-20% per year of your household income?
    WI has very low vehicle registration charges, but many states force payment of hundreds or thousands of dollars for Vehicle Registration Taxes - for each vehicle!  I don’t know about Tejas.

    If you are able to look around here, there is a post/link to an ad for Tim Michels, and it does a good job of pointing out the taxes you incur in your daily life.

    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 29, 2004 at 1426 hrs


  7. With a combined household income of about half that survey number, I simply couldn’t afford to take off and be a delegate. That, rather than any nefarious class issue, is why the people at the convention are in the upper earning brackets.

    By the way, two years ago when our earnings were much smaller, our property tax alone was 20% of our income. That is much of the reason we are moving to the smaller property off the boulevard.

    Posted by triticale on August 29, 2004 at 2312 hrs


  8. No, I meant effective federal was 11 percent, and I guessed that maybe another few percent go to sales tax. Wasn’t thinking about fuel tax or utility fees. I deduct my property taxes on my federal taxes, so that one comes out lower than it seems. I think the refund last year was around 9 percent of total income. Anyway, I just think 50 percent sounds high.

    I am fortunate enough not to have to worry so much about how much I pay in taxes, which means, to me, that I am one of the people who ought to be paying them.

    Posted by hope on August 29, 2004 at 2351 hrs


  9. Don’t forget the embedded taxes on all of the products you buy.  Companies tack on the taxes that they pay onto everything.  These embedded taxes are estimated at between 18% and 22% of the price for any product or service that you buy.

    Posted by Owen on August 30, 2004 at 0700 hrs


  10. My guess is the reason convention delegates tend to be upper-income is that they are the ones who can afford to take a week off from work.

    Posted by Dana on August 30, 2004 at 1921 hrs


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