Decline of Commentary
I don’t think I’ve done this before, but I feel compelled to do so…. I must be critical of some of our commenters - both lefties and righties.
For years I have been very proud of the quality of the comments made here at B&S. While I’ve seen comments on some sites regularly degenerate into juvenile jerkfests, B&S has had excellent commenters who focus on substance and offer quality debate. For several years, B&S had a bevy of great liberal commenters who challenged Jed and I with excellent arguments while maintaining a high level of decorum. Hope, Scott, folkbum, and a few others come to mind. B&S also had many great conservative commenters.
But I have noticed a change over the past year or so. Some of B&S’ conservative commenters have been too quick to decline into mindless attacks, but the biggest change has been on the liberal side of the spectrum. There are now commenters on B&S who react to almost anything with very personal, bitter, assholio comments devoid of any intellectual rigor. I wish it weren’t so. I wish for the day that the comments at B&S return to their previous quality.
That being said, I don’t take anything personally and B&S still has a number of very good commenters. I’m a big boy and y’all can say whatever you want within our very loose comment policy. We’ve only ever banned one commenter and that was a very different situation. But you should know that I won’t respond if you’re being a tool. It’s not worth my time.
Carry on…
Aw. I miss Hope. She was great with health care discussions. Where are you, Hope?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 29, 2007 at 2141 hrs
Assholio is a great word! May have to steal it someday.
And thanks. Your leadership means a lot.
Posted by Cindy on August 29, 2007 at 2239 hrs
Thanks for counting me among those who (at least used to) conduct themselves appropriately here. I don’t know whether you are further thinking that I am also one whose comments have deteriorated lately, but I definitely am aware of a change myself.
I think it was a few months ago. I don’t remember the exact context, but it was brought to my attention that name calling and swear words were generally within the realm of allowable. I know because they were continually being leveled at me. When it became clear that I could dish out what I was being given, I did so.
I cannot think off-hand of a single comment that I would take back. If I have told someone to go F themselves I’m pretty sure that, given the entire discussion as context, no jury of my bloggy peers would convict me of acting unprovoked.
I do have standards, let’s be clear about that. I try not to attack people personally, even sometimes when they are attacking me. At any point in a discussion, no matter how far down the road it has gone, I always remain willing to respond to a “let’s get back to an intelligent discussion of the issue” message. In fact I myself often am the one inviting such a return.
Above all, I do try to refrain from writing things that I would not say in person. That is, if I tell someone to F off I try to make sure it’s in a context where a fair-minded recipient should say to themselves “okay I deserved that, but here’s my position…” - whether in person or online.
Posted by scott on August 30, 2007 at 0835 hrs
While playground taunts and offensive language is widely accepted on B&S;, it does nothing to lend to a true debate on the issues.
Right or Left, as soon as the expletives start to fly, the person using them has lost the debate. To me, anyone who has to sink to the use of such language means they can not craft a sound argument on whatever the issue may be.
Intelligent people don’t need to use foul language to get their point across, and anyone who does shouldn’t be allowed in the arena of public discourse, at least in my opinion.
Posted by Mr. Pelican Pants on August 30, 2007 at 0920 hrs
I’m surpirsed that you noticed a bigger change on the liberal side of the spectrum. As someone that is neither liberal nor conservative and that has engaged both sides here, I think that both sides have deteriorated but the conservatives have done so to a greater degree. Of course, Scott never told me to F-off.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2007 at 1003 hrs
Is that kind of like Cornholio?
I started visiting this blog largely because of the great discussions and hope they return to more civil discourse. ITA with Mr. Pelican Pants—I am turned off by the expletives as well.
Scott, even though we are on pretty opposite ends of the spectrum, I have appreciated your input and hope you can find it in yourself to return to the high quality input you have shown in the past.
Posted by hsgbdmama on August 30, 2007 at 1006 hrs
I have not left the quality behind. But I have introduced a “hit back” policy. For good or ill. A better man might keep turning other cheeks, but I never said I was a saint.
Posted by scott on August 30, 2007 at 1042 hrs
How about if you hit back nicely, with a cyber pillow?
Posted by hsgbdmama on August 30, 2007 at 1050 hrs
When I attempt to use wit (such as I have anyway) instead of courser language, I’m accused of being a sarcastic, know-it-all, elitist snob.
Which is of course untrue; I am definitely not a snob.
Posted by scott on August 30, 2007 at 1103 hrs
It was a real pleasure to find a site, conservative or liberal either one, where both sides of an argument could be aired without the discussion automatically degenerating into vicious invective and ad hominem attacks. I think it’s simply the nature of the beast that there will be some degree of that, and it’s the responsibility of cooler heads to ignore it to the best of their ability. I’m not always able to do that, and I’ve apologized when I lost my temper, but I’m with Scott—I do reserve the right to hit back.
I know as a liberal (and a UT grad, to boot
), I’m a guest here, and I try to behave accordingly. Plus, I’m still reasonably new to this conversation, so I still don’t know everybody. I’m just glad to be here.Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2007 at 1249 hrs
Assholio is my rap name.
(There’s a reason I don’t play in this sandbox anymore; scott and JIJARWM have hit it on the head.)
Posted by folkbum on August 30, 2007 at 1853 hrs
Most of the discusions here have become shallow, circular arguments. In a word, boring.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 30, 2007 at 1902 hrs
SBrat, I disagree with you on that. This is the only blog I comment on regularly, and I think many posts lead to the same arguments, (which might be circular) but there seems to be much good discussion amidst the chaff. Certainly more than most blog commentaries I have visited which either have no confrontation or a much higher percent of name calling. This is the chance for anyone or everyone to tell me to shut up. I am sometimes confrontational and my sarcasm bites (yes, a double entendre) and if my input has over all brought B&S;down, I will certainly become a reader only at the behest of others. I have opinions, but they ain’t all that.
Feel free to not leave this child behind…grade me.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 31, 2007 at 1110 hrs
I would have to agree with JIJARWM in that I feel that it is the right side that has fallen the most. I might just be biased because of my experiences with comments from Mickey. Thank you for eliminating those comments. The level of discourse has fallen on both sides and needs to be raised.
As far as discussions being shallow that is a function of the fact that sometimes people weigh in with opinions that are not that knowledgeable. This is an opinion blog and all opinions should be welcome. Doesn’t mean that they will all be good quality, well thought out opinions, but they should be welcomed.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 31, 2007 at 1215 hrs
Tuerqas, nah, don’t shaddup. For one thing, again today on another thread but as before, you are immediately willing to fess up when in error—as can happen when we all may be multitasking while trying to keep up (or just haven’t had enough coffee).
More of that can save a lot of circular debate, so thanks. And note again, as I have before when he was unfairly accused of not correcting an error, Owen’s example in doing this, too.
As for expletives and the like, I don’t particularly like them or not like them, but I don’t think that I use them (if I do, I’ll slap my nasty fingers for misbehaving). But they don’t say anything about the topic and only say something about the writer—and what they say is that the writer is lowering himself to that level.
Essentially, they’re about as effective as CAPITAL LETTERS and lots of exclamation points!!!! Glad those are gone from here—as a friend unforgettably labeled such a writing style once, it’s what he called “sorority-style writing.” But there are many fine writers in sororities, so it’s really just sophomoric writing, and it also doesn’t contribute much to moving a topic forward.
Bottom line, much as I may disagree with Owen and others here, I also learn a lot here frommany who do more than just react to the talking points of the day, pushbutton buzzwords, but really do a job on taking apart overreaching statements by pols and other public officials on all sides. Thanks for that, as it brings a level of analysis to the news that we too often do not get in a newspaper. That’s a difference in blogs that’s good.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 31, 2007 at 1601 hrs
Want to know why this has deteriorated to a dog fight?
http://www.bootsandsabers.com/index.php/weblog/permalink/decline_of_commentary/
Total BS like this.
You reap what you sow!
Besides it is just a blood sport, right?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 31, 2007 at 2033 hrs
Oops again!
I meant this BS, so much to choose from.
http://www.bootsandsabers.com/index.php/weblog/permalink/doyle_received_tainted_cash/
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 31, 2007 at 2115 hrs
Good decision, don’t own your commenters, we give you free content.
Posted by Evra on September 01, 2007 at 0800 hrs
Total Entries: 19998
Total Comments: 134032
Most Recent Entry: 05/24/2012 05:43 pm
Most Recent Comment on: 05/24/2012 06:24 pm
Total Members: 9751
Total Logged in members: 0
Total guests: 107
Total anonymous users: 0
Most Recent Visitor on: 05/24/2012 06:38 pm
The most visitors ever was 538 on 12/01/2007 02:11 pm
Protected and licensed under a Creative Commons License (some rights reserved).