Saturday, January 28, 2012

Class Size Doesn’t Matter

Yup.

We find that traditionally collected input measures — class size, per pupil expenditure, the fraction of teachers with no certification, and the fraction of teachers with an advanced degree — are not correlated with school effectiveness. In stark contrast, we show that an index of five policies suggested by over forty years of qualitative research — frequent teacher feedback, the use of data to guide instruction, high-dosage tutoring, increased instructional time, and high expectations — explains approximately 50 percent of the variation in school effectiveness.

(9) Comments
Posted by Owen at 1944 hrs
Culture

  1. What annoys me the most is that this isn’t news.  Studies have pointed in this direction for years.  We spend so much money on things that aren’t economically effective because so much of the research in terms of student achievement is counterintuitive to what parents and teachers innately believe is correct.

    I’m more than happy to cede more classroom control to teachers within a research-driven paradigm.  The problem is when we start letting the hocus-pocus of parental intuition (fueled by a lot of self-interested union propaganda) define the parameters of our educational system.

    Posted by Recess Supervisor on January 29, 2012 at 0009 hrs


  2. 1.What annoys me the most is that this isn’t news.  Studies have pointed in this direction for years.

    Agreed, but this is not well known news.  My opinion, WI liberal democrats and the Unions very existance depends on supressing this information.

    Keep getting the word out!!!

    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 29, 2012 at 0624 hrs


  3. I’m a fiscal conservative who will vote for Walker again.  I am very proud of my military service.  I like lower taxes!  The only democrat I vote for is Mr. David Clark.  So I think you know where I’m coming from.

    I don’t believe that class size doesn’t matter.  I was a teacher before my current profession.  I taught the same class 4 times a day and there was a big difference in the class that had 27 students and the class that had 32.  I was even surprised myself by how easy it was to influence the kids in the smaller classroom.  The smaller classroom also had the “bad” kids with the disciplin issues.  Just my experience.

    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 29, 2012 at 0755 hrs


  4. Smaller classes = more teachers = more teachers paying union dues = more money for unions = more money for Democrats. 

    Oh yea, somewhere in there is something about “the children”, but I’m not exactly sure where.

    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 29, 2012 at 1051 hrs


  5. For years, the smaller class size approach was presented almost as a panacea. That said, all other things being equal, having fewer students can certainly be beneficial. Of course all other things aren’t equal. It does cost more and while that shouldn’t be the be-all, end-all, in the real world it can’t be ignored. Also - teachers aren’t all equal. A great teacher will do better with a larger class than a poor or even average teacher will do with a smaller one. Quality of the teachers is the single biggest factor so anything that brings in the best, weeds out the worst and helps the rest develop themselves will greatly increase the quality of eduction.

    The one other factor in class size that I don’t think a lot of people realize is how education has changed from when they went to school. I’m in my 30s, with kids in elementary school. I’m amazed at how good their school and their teachers are at customizing things for each child. When I was in school, it was always geared towards the middle - I remember being really bored a lot, waiting for the slowest kids to get it. For my kids, for many classes (especially math & reading) the curriculum is set up to allow everyone to progress as fast as they can. That most certainly adds a lot more work to the teachers’ plates than when I went to school, so class size means more today.

    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 29, 2012 at 1352 hrs


  6. I’m more than happy to cede more classroom control to teachers within a research-driven paradigm.  The problem is when we start letting the hocus-pocus of parental intuition (fueled by a lot of self-interested union propaganda) define the parameters of our educational system.

    My brother is a vice principal at a big state high school. He was very skeptical about the changes the state/Walker were making. Now that the dust has settled, at least from his perspective, the results have been overwhelmingly positive. One of his primary goals is teacher development - helping “teach the teacher” to be as effective as possible. Your comments above hint at one of the biggest benefits in this. The resistance to change and accepting that the science of education has changed dramatically over the years has been a huge road block. On whole, the teachers union are complicit in this. They lost a number of teachers as a result of Act 10. And almost every one of them was an addition by subtraction. His words literally were, “now we’ve brought in new people I can work with.” Honestly it reminded me quite a bit of Favre. When he got to the point that he “knew it all” and no longer took coaching, his play fell off dramatically. In comes a new kid in Rodgers, willing to listen and learn from his coaches and the results speak for themselves.  Now the union is not in the way as much as they were and administrators can keep teachers after practice to work on a few things. They can adapt the educational system to approaches that are data driven and proven more effective.

    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 29, 2012 at 1404 hrs


  7. “That said, all other things being equal, having fewer students can certainly be beneficial. Of course all other things aren’t equal. It does cost more “

    Not only does it cost more, but hiring more teachers means reaching deeper into the applicant pool. At some point that results in lower quality hires.

    As for class size, the papers I’ve read indicate there’s a threshold effect: below the threshold, smaller classes don’t make much different. But things can deteriorate quickly above the threshold. The key, then, is in determining where that threshold is.

    In any case, I think much of the public sees “State aid to school cut!” but doesn’t realize the opportunities to improve taxpayer-funded education now that school boards and not teachers unions get to set work rules in the public schools.

    It’s potentially a huge win for quality K-12 education in Wisconisin. I can only hope that Wisconsin voters have the will to prevent the unions from taking it away from us.

    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2012 at 0936 hrs


  8. Not only does it cost more, but hiring more teachers means reaching deeper into the applicant pool. At some point that results in lower quality hires.

    While true, at least generally that shouldn’t be a major concern right now. Of course it varies greatly by subject area, but for the most part, open positions see hundreds of qualified candidates. A few years ago, two of my brothers were looking for teaching jobs in Wisconsin. One had a really outstanding resume after teaching in Arizona for 5 years, but his area was history. He routinely was one of 300-500 applicants and actually never did land a job in that area - instead getting into alternative high school for returning/at risk kids (he did have strong background after working at a border school). My other brother was Technology Ed (Shop) and had multiple offers despite a much weaker resume.

    This illustrates a fundamental problem with the system. This is where a pay structure totally detached from the market and set by unions hurts students and taxpayers. A pay scale that requires all teaching jobs to pay the same is flawed. If there are hundreds of qualified applicants for one position, then it clearly is paying enough, if not too much. It works the other way too - where positions don’t have enough quality applicants, the schools need the ability to raise the pay.

    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on January 30, 2012 at 1023 hrs


  9. I think class size definitely matters.  Growing up, I was a part of the public school system and the private school system.  Every 3 years, I upgraded to a “better” school where the class size got smaller and smaller.  Through my own personal experience, I believe that there’s more pressure on students to perform better when the class size is smaller.  Students feel more compelled to participate and keep up with the work due to increased competition in a small classroom setting.  Not only that, in a small classroom setting, as students get closer to each other, they feel more comfortable to ask questions and participate.  The classroom becomes more of a familiar setting rather than a room filled with strangers.  When looking at schools for children, there are many factors you should contemplate, class size being one of the main ones in my opinion.  Here are some other things to consider when choosing the right school for your children: http://www.mymove.com/tips-advice/lifestyle/children/how-to-choose-a-school-in-your-new-neighborhood

    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on February 10, 2012 at 1024 hrs


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