City of West Bend Fleecing Citizens

Last week, I awoke and on a trip into the laundry room to find some socks, my nostrils were filled with the smell of natural gas.  It wasn’t incredibly strong, but obviously a problem.  I shut off the gas and opened the windows to air it out.  Then I called the gas company so that they could come out and find the problem.  The WE Energies gas guy was great.  He found the major leak (the lead line for the pilot light on our hot water heater) and fixed it right away.  He then proceeded to check the entire system just to be sure.  He found a minor leak in another coupling.  It was tiny and he said that it could have been leaking for years and nobody would have noticed.  He tried to fix it, but couldn’t, so we were told to have it repaired as soon as we could - no hurry, though. 

Well, our basement is finished with a couple of bedrooms in which some of our kids sleep, so we weren’t going to wait.  We called a plumber to get it fixed as soon as possible.  We were also due for a new hot water heater anyway, so we decided to have it replaced at the same time to save another trip charge.  We also decided to get a bigger hot water heater because we have four kids who insist on being clean and a daddy who likes his long showers. 

The plumber that we called is our favorite plumber.  They have been good to us in the past and they are always our first call (Bayer plumbing).  They asked us what we needed done and quoted a price.  One of the questions that they asked is whether or not we lived in the City of West Bend.  We do, so they told us that the city charges a $65 fee to replace our hot water heater.  Being the good capitalists that we are, we called around to get another quote to make sure that we were getting a good deal.  We were again asked about our residency and informed that the city charges a $65 fee.  As it turns out, Bayer had the best deal so we went ahead with them.

Bayer came out this afternoon and dutifully installed our new hot water heater, fixed the gas leak, capped a couple of gas lines that we don’t use, took a look at our two bathtub fixtures to see about replacing them, and told us that his next trip should be to replace our water softener.  The plumber was polite, professional, informative, and generally terrific - as usual.  Then he told us that a city inspector would have to come out to inspect our new hot water heater - hence the $65 fee. 

After thinking about it, it seems pretty clear that the $65 fee is a total scam to pump more money into the city’s coffers.  First off, if it was truly a matter of safety, the city inspector should have had to inspect the new hot water heater before it went into operation.  Given that the city seems perfectly fine waiting days or weeks before inspecting it, it’s clearly not about our safety.  Second, there is a reason that we have “certified” plumbers.  The purpose of the certification is to make sure that the plumbers do quality work.  If the plumber is certified, what purpose is there for an additional inspection by the city?  Third, why is it only the City of West Bend that imposes this fee?  Is there a substantial difference in safety between hot water heaters installed in West Bend versus the Village of Jackson, Town of West Bend, Town of Wayne, or anywhere else? 

Our plumber did a great job, but the City of West Bend is fleecing the citizens with a purposeless fee - unless the purpose is merely to pump more money into the City of West Bend. 

1. They have a similar scam in Waupaca County.  The county requires septic tanks be inspected every three years.  This means having to hire a contractor to come out and clean it for about $125.  Then you have to have them complete and sign a form, which you get to mail in with a $45 fee to process that you had it cleaned.

   Posted by on January 07, 2008 at 2327 hrs




2. Menomonee Falls and Sussex do the same - although when I had my water heaters and softener replaced the charge at the time was $50. 

   I was thinking scam at the same time.....

   Posted by on January 07, 2008 at 2327 hrs




3. Consider the pricing power of a monopoly.

   Posted by on January 08, 2008 at 0004 hrs




4. That inspection gets them into your home, where they might notice other “improvements” that you failed to cut them in on...and maybe could use re-assessment. I took out a building permit in September and less than a month later was contacted to make an appointment for an assessor’s visit. Coincidence? Maybe, but likely not.

   Did you splurge on the instant-heating model to take advantage of the tax credit?

   Posted by on January 08, 2008 at 0058 hrs




5. What happens if you insist on a duly signed search warrant be presented to you before allowing this inspection search?

   There may still be a shred of that pesky fouth amendment left at the federal level, but luckly the state constitution has a similar provision in Article I section 11.

   It is a hassle, but there is some satisfaction in forcing the city to follow the rules of the inconvienient (to government) provisions of the constitution.

   Easy for us working guys to say. The inspector will come during the day and, thus, this the above encounter would be something Wendy will need to do.

   Posted by John Washburn on January 08, 2008 at 0240 hrs




6. Think of it as a way to keep from raising taxes.  You know, like your “no tax increase” pledgers did at the state level.

   Posted by on January 08, 2008 at 0618 hrs




7. Brookfield does it, too. You’ll probably get whapped again if you need a new dishwasher.

   Posted by Cindy on January 08, 2008 at 0626 hrs




8. The City of Milwaukee has a variant of that scam.

   There, they change codes about every 3-4 years, requiring taverns and restaurants to change their washing sinks.  Of course, if you were licensed under the “2-sink” system, when the City changes the code to require “3-sinks” you are required to spend a bunch of money to purchase a 3-sink outfit--stainless steel, of course.

   Benefits the Plumbers’ Union AND the City.

   Posted by dad29 on January 08, 2008 at 0741 hrs




9. It’s a building inspection and it involves a potentially explosive gas; an inspection is normal.  As to an inspection being required before or at startup, it almost certainly is.  Either the inspector wasn’t called, or the inspection department was busy, hence the wait.

   Posted by on January 08, 2008 at 0918 hrs




10. Depending on the relative wealth of the person seeking to get a new hot water heater, it would also serve to decrease safety.  $65 may place a new hot water heater out of a price point for someone, forcing them to wait to replace it.  Depending on the age of the heater, that would be more dangerous.  Also, some people may then decide to use a less reputable plumber, who would not tell the city of the new heater, but would also be more likely to do poor work.

    Posted by Nick on January 08, 2008 at 0932 hrs




11. It’s a building inspection and it involves a potentially explosive gas; an inspection is normal.  As to an inspection being required before or at startup, it almost certainly is.  Either the inspector wasn’t called, or the inspection department was busy, hence the wait.

    The problem with you “logic” here is you assume there has been no inspection.  That is not true. The gaslines WERE inspected and inspected by at least 3 people: Owen, the installing plumber and the inspector from WEnergies.  If Owen wants a post-installation inspection for saftey concerns (not a bad idea with kids in the house), then Owen should call his home insurance company and have them provide the name(s) of an inspector the INSURANCE company trusts is competent.

    There is no reason to allow an agent of the state to search your premise without a signed search warrant.  No good proceeds from Warrantless searches.

    Big Bro is indeed an apt moniker

    Posted by John Washburn on January 08, 2008 at 1037 hrs




12. Make them sign a form prior to handing them the $65 check that says something to this effect.

    By receiving this check I will be admitted into the domicile of Owen for the sole purpose of reinspecting the new gas line.  Anything I see will remain confidential, etc…

    Posted by on January 08, 2008 at 1051 hrs




13. Look, I do construction.  I know building codes and regulations.  Nothing unusual is going on here.  The gas company representative did not inspect the heater, he inspected an earlier leak.  The issues are unrelated.  The only “inspection” of the heater was by the plumber who did the work.  The particular piece of equipment involves both gas and potable water supply.  You run the risk of a problem with the gas and also with contamination of the water supply, thus inspections on this sort of thing are normal.  If you don’t want to have building inspections, that’s fine, but I suspect you really would just like to be treated differently then any other contractor.

    Posted by on January 08, 2008 at 1115 hrs




14. Even if you believed the inspector desires to abide by such a promise (I would not), he may be LEGALLY bound as an agent of the state to ignore it.

    If he sees anything he considers illegal he is probably REQUIRED to report his observation to the appropriate arm of the government.

    “Trust not princes and their scraps of paper.” Machiavelli.  When coercive power is involved (do it my way or I will hurt you) Machiaveli’s is not a pretty model of human behavior, but it is an accurate and predictive model of human behavior.

    Posted by John washburn on January 08, 2008 at 1130 hrs




15. Your presumtion is that warrantless searches of private property are OK if those warrantless searches are called “building inspections”.

    I am not against building inspections.  I am against them being performed without a signed warrant.

    Posted by John Washburn on January 08, 2008 at 1133 hrs




16. If you want to insist on a warrant, that’s your option.  But then either don’t hook up to the city utilities or don’t be disappointed when they disconnect you.

    Posted by on January 08, 2008 at 1142 hrs




17. This is why you should just learn how to do all this sort of stuff yourself.

    Also, you should have gotten a tankless waterheater.

    Posted by Matt on January 08, 2008 at 1240 hrs




18. As my water heater decided to spring a leak last night, I have already done quite a bit of research into new ones.

    Actually, a tankless water heater will probably only pay for itself in a newer home due to the other upgrades that probably need to be done to install them, plus they are usually 3x the cost of a tradition tank system. Unless you plan on living in your current residence for at least another 15 years.

    The other kick in the pants is even if you get an Energy Star water heater, there is no guarantee of a tax credit unless you purchased it before Dec 31, 2007 due to the tax credit not being renewed (yet).

    http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=products.pr_tax_c redits

    Posted by on January 08, 2008 at 1250 hrs




19. In our building project I inquired with our plumber about tankless water heaters. He was very adamant about not doing it, told me he did not want us on the phone in a couple of years cussing him out for putting it in and asking him to come and replace it. He claimed there to be high maintenance costs with tankless heaters.

    Anybody here have actual ownership experience with them? The closest experience I have had was a shower point tankless (electric) water heater, while i was in the Philippines.

    Posted by Marcus Aurelius on January 08, 2008 at 1309 hrs




20. If you want to insist on a warrant, that’s your option.  But then either don’t hook up to the city utilities or don’t be disappointed when they disconnect you.

    I doubt it is my option, but let’s stipulate it is.

    I did not say the City could not inspect.  I merely insist they follow the Constitution.  An agent of the state searching your property to search for criminal activity (building code violations) requires a warrant.

    Now talking crazy conatitution talk can get you killed or violently attcked as this family discovered, but, f the Constitution does not apply to our homes, then it is dead and we may as well admit the Republic for which it stood is dead as well.

    On the issue of the City leaving me alone:  Do you serioous believe that if I insist on a warrant and they disconnect me from city services I would be left alone?  If I have no City services because constitutional goverment is to much trouble for the City, will the tax bills stop? Or can expect no services coupled with SWAT-team raids to collect money I “owe” for unprovided City services?

    I did not know disconnection from City services and the attendent taxes was an option allowed in the USA anymore.  but I am intriged by this line of reasoning. In the immortal words of the Danny’s friends: “Tell me more. Tell me more. Did you get very far?”

    Posted by John Washburn on January 08, 2008 at 1425 hrs




21. Anybody here have actual ownership experience with them [tankless water heaters]?

    I installed a gas-fired one about 2-1/2 years ago and couldn’t be happier.  I saw my gas usage drop and haven’t done any maintenance on it yet.  While it doesn’t quite have the capacity to supply two uses at once (i.e., shower and washing machine), I do enjoy the endless supply of hot water...especially since I used to follow the women of the house in the morning...and ended up with a short, lukewarm shower at best.

    Posted by on January 08, 2008 at 1501 hrs




22. John Washburn you can back to your fringe.  I, of course, said nothing about your taxes, and the purchaser of city services signs various agreements allowing access for utility companies and also specifying what people have agreed to when they signed up for service. 

    They are not looking for criminal activity, and of course no one but you is suggesting they are.

    Posted by on January 08, 2008 at 1723 hrs




23. Owen you should run for alderman and make the changes you want to make.

    Posted by on January 08, 2008 at 2245 hrs




24. Better yet mayor.

    Posted by on January 08, 2008 at 2320 hrs




25. Too late now.

    Posted by Owen on January 08, 2008 at 2325 hrs




26. Or we could just buy our own island and make whatever rules we want…

    Posted by on January 09, 2008 at 0002 hrs




27. Hey Marcus,

    It seems like nearly everyone in the developing world has started using tankless waterheaters.  And they do it because of the increased efficiency.  I’ll be trading up with the next swap… Oh, and with an inspection.

    Owen, surely we all have an interest in whether the idiot next door properly installed his own gas lines, and in the same way we have an interest in making sure, via inspection, that houses are wired properly (so they don’t burn down and kill the neighbors and catch your house on fire, say). 

    Although I love the idea of asking for a warrant.

    Unless you think that a local community has no interest in making sure all these aspects of modern life (gas, electrics, sewage)—stuff that could damage our property as well as our neighbors—is done properly?  Are you opposed to both zoning and building codes, too?  Is it “government interference” to make sure our outlets are now grounded or that your gas appliances are properly installed?

    But I think grumps nailed this.  We wouldn’t have to raise fees for everything if we didn’t keep cutting the taxes which, otherwise, would pay for it.

    He said,
    Mp

    Posted by Mpeterson on January 10, 2008 at 0049 hrs




28. But I think grumps nailed this.  We wouldn’t have to raise fees for everything if we didn’t keep cutting the taxes which, otherwise, would pay for it.

    Of course, if we raised taxes just a little bit more, we could even have a monthly inspection to see if everything is still safe...and maybe the city official could even tuck in the kids…

    Posted by on January 10, 2008 at 0806 hrs




29. "Second, there is a reason that we have “certified” plumbers.  The purpose of the certification is to make sure that the plumbers do quality work.  If the plumber is certified, what purpose is there for an additional inspection by the city?”

    When we built our house, a local, well known plumbing firm ran the vent for the hot water heater too close to a combustible surface. The city (West Bend) inspector caught it. Had he not inspected the work, the wood surface would have (I was told) built up a char and eventually ignited.

    In the same project, another local, well known firm, a heating & cooling company, cut two large holes in a floor joist to run venting for an air exchanger. Our occupancy was delayed, and the builder had to hire an engineer to come up with a fix to counteract this insult to the home’s structural integrity. Again, this was caught by the building inspector.

    And that’s how I learned the value of inspection oversight of even “certified” contractors.

    Posted by on January 10, 2008 at 0823 hrs




30. For the record… still no inspector.  Apparently my family’s safety is not the driving force behind the permit.

    Posted by Owen on January 10, 2008 at 0850 hrs




31. wiaggie --

    So you’re saying that community concern to guarantee the proper installation of gas is pretty much the same as creating a nanny state?

    Seriously, if you don’t have an interest in whether your neighbor’s gas is installed properly then… well, then you aren’t a homeowner.

    On the other hand:

    If, after all that, the inspector hasn’t shown up (!?), I’d be really pissed off and demand they send someone out.  [When I was still doing some management consulting we used to call this ‘malicious compliance.’ The quickest and dirtiest way to get something done when the bureaucracy is giving you crap is to use the bureaucracy’s own policies against it.  It can also be immensely satisfying.  ;^)]

    And while I’m thinking about it, maybe you could have a Daily News reporter—or how about Katrina Cravy?—there to ask them what they hell they do to earn that fee on the permit.

    That, at least, would add some fun.

    hiho
    Mp

    Posted by Mpeterson on January 10, 2008 at 1616 hrs




32. "For the record… still no inspector.”

    And I agree, that is not right.

    Posted by on January 10, 2008 at 1830 hrs




33. I was sarcastically responding to the point that if we didn’t keep cutting taxes (as if we do), these fees wouldn’t be necessary. Also, I’m objecting to the “anything to be safer” argument being deployed.

    In this case, I don’t feel that a inspection is really necessary. The possible problems are a minor gas leak or a water leak. The biggest danger in the whole process was probably when the pilot light originally went out. A changeout is a simple procedure that any plumber is capable of doing and any reasonably-intelligent homeowner could “inspect” the work. A gas leak is detectible by smell (which is what tipped Owen off to the problem in the first place); any disturbed pipe joints can be tested with a dab of dish washing soap (watch for bubbles). A water leak is obviously visible. You call the plumber back if either problem occurs.

    The point made by another_jed is somewhat valid only because, in new construction, many things can be covered up by drywall or siding and would never be seen again. In this case, a professional architect or engineer (employed to watch out for your interests, and with E&O;insurance) would still be a better option than a government inspector. Try recovering damages for something the inspector missed.

    My basic question is, “What vast level of expertise (that’s worth $65.00) is the City’s inspector bringing to the table in this case?” It’s more than likely he is simply a former tradesman that wanted a cushier job.

    Posted by on January 10, 2008 at 1839 hrs




34. You must be really careful especially if there are small children in the house. I once almost died because of a gas leek but fortunately I had my dog to wake me up. He felt the smell and started barking at me but I couldn’t wake up. He then grabbed my pants and dragged me to the balcony door. I then got up and opened it. The ambulance people said that half an hour more and I would have inhaled enough gas to have permanent brain damage.

    Posted by Washer Parts on March 03, 2008 at 1041 hrs