ACORN’s Questionable/Fraudulent Techniques
Nah… our process for elections is fine.
At least six voter registration workers could face criminal investigations after turning in 200 to 300 fraudulent registration cards, according to the Milwaukee Election Commission and the activist group that employed them.
In one case, “one woman called us to complain because her husband has been dead for 10 years and a voter registration was submitted,” said Sue Edman, the commission’s executive director.
In other cases, deputy registrars working for ACORN were “making people up or registering people that were still in prison,” said Carolyn Castore, ACORN’s state political director.
In still other cases, workers used the same address for numerous voters or used driver’s license numbers that did not fit the voters’ birth dates, Edman said.
Move along, nothing to see here…
We really don’t need Voter ID
There’s no voter fraud….
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 06, 2008 at 2149 hrs
Heard this and felt no shock, no surprise - just a heap of disgust and anger at more of the same ‘ol same ‘ol by the left.
How does anyone vote for a lefty knowing they condone this horror…I’ll never get it.
Posted by Jeni on August 06, 2008 at 2219 hrs
Considering ACORN turned the people in themselves…
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 06, 2008 at 2232 hrs
And how many were filled in “correctly” for non-existent residents living at vacant lots like other years? This is why Kevin Kennedy (of our Gov. Accountability Board/Elections Board) is dragging his feet trying not to enact the Federally-mandated cross-check of the voter database - because it might kick out too many of these kinds of questionable registrations before the November election.
Remember he managed to get away with a similar postponement in 2006 - until after Doyle got re-elected - <a>http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=410389 </a>.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 07, 2008 at 0021 hrs
Guess you missed the GAB press release issued yesterday announcing that the “Federally-mandated cross-check of cthe voter database” has been activated, Wiaggie!
We now have a fully HAVA-compliant system in Wisconsin, which virtually eliminates the chance for voter fraud this fall. As much as you wingnuts would like to suppress voter turnout, it ain’t going to happen!
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 07, 2008 at 0601 hrs
MN Secretary of State Mark Ritchie’s old group. I hope people in MN don’t actually expect a fair election there.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 07, 2008 at 0825 hrs
It all depends on one’s definition of the word “steal” I guess.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 07, 2008 at 0852 hrs
First, I’m glad these guys got nailed. Believe it or not, nobody wants this kind of thing happening!
No, really. We don’t want it. Even us liberals. I’m encouraged by the fact that ACORN themselves turned the offenders in.
I think it bears pointing out that these aren’t fraudulent votes. There’s no indication (that I’m aware of) that anyone’s motivation in this was to vote illegally.
And of course there’s no way that making people show a state issued ID when they show up to vote would have prevented this incident from happening.
Posted by scott on August 07, 2008 at 0935 hrs
Like ACORN is new to fraud. How many million of dollars did the recent housing bailout bill put into ACORN coffers?
http://www.consumersrightsleague.org/uploadedfiles/Latest Million Dollar ACORN Scandal.pdf
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 07, 2008 at 1008 hrs
Owen, you say, sarcastically, that our election process is “fine.” Just out of curiosity, what else should ACORN have done here, besides review every one of the 35,000 registration cards and fire anyone whose work was sloppy and turn over evidence to city officials? Is there a step they skipped in there somewhere?
Posted by folkbum on August 07, 2008 at 1151 hrs
Remember next election…
Diamond Jim vetoed a voter ID bill not once, not twice, but THREE times. (Shouldn’t the 3-Strikes your out law apply to DJ?)
Screw the 78% of Wisconsinites who want Voter ID; Diamond Jim knows better!
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 07, 2008 at 1159 hrs
I think it bears pointing out that these aren’t fraudulent votes. Unless the Milwaukee Election Commission just puts them on the list (which has been done before) and someone uses them in November. These are just the ones that have been identified…maybe so we all think they’re being prudent? If similar ones are submitted in October, when everyone is swamped, will anyone notice?
There’s no indication (that I’m aware of) that anyone’s motivation in this was to vote illegally. Of course not!!
And of course there’s no way that making people show a state issued ID when they show up to vote would have prevented this incident from happening. The story says that some “used driver’s license numbers that did not fit the voters’ birth dates”...which might be caught at the polls. Also, it’s quite difficult to present a photo ID and vote for someone who has been dead for 10 years…but relatively easy to walk in and state his name and address if it’s on the list…and who would know?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 07, 2008 at 1420 hrs
I think it bears pointing out that these aren’t fraudulent votes. Unless the Milwaukee Election Commission just puts them on the list (which has been done before) and someone uses them in November.
The whole point here, wiaggie, is that the names will not end up on the voter rolls, because ACORN identified that they were fraudulent and told the Commission that they were fraudulent.
Posted by folkbum on August 07, 2008 at 1426 hrs
You guys are pointing to this and saying “see, the system’s broken!” All I see is a system that worked just the way it should. Someone did something they weren’t supposed to do—and got busted for it pronto.
And I just have to throw this out there, too. Does anyone seriously believe that the intent of these losers was to vote fraudulently? I mean, isn’t it a lot more likely that they are getting paid per registrant and thus were just trying to be lazy about doing their job?
Anyone have details on this point?
Posted by scott on August 07, 2008 at 1447 hrs
There is a problem with a system that financially rewards people for registering voters.
How many groups are doing that and who are they? I would be suprised if only one side of the political spectrum was registering voters like this. The real problem seems to be fraudulantly registered voters that are then given absentee ballots.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 07, 2008 at 1506 hrs
This is just the stuff that is caught (and only because someone else - not the election people or the police) turned themselves in so to speak.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 07, 2008 at 1536 hrs
So in other words you believe that this is going on and not getting caught. I’m not so sure. And do you also believe that it’s resulting in fraudulent votes? I’m not convinced of that, either. I agree with 3rd way: the real problem is probably in absentee balloting.
Posted by scott on August 07, 2008 at 1546 hrs
A while back I contacted the election board to see if they kept records of where absentee ballots came from or who they were cast for… they don’t. I thought they would keep records of that sort of thing. I recommended to them that they did in the future.
If absentee ballots ended up being way out of whack with the trends of the rest of the ballots being cast they would never know.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 07, 2008 at 1555 hrs
Another thing, Bill. You can’t fault the election commission for not finding this problem, as none of these registrations ever got sent to them. ACORN caught it, stopped it, and reported it before it ever went that far.
Posted by scott on August 07, 2008 at 1601 hrs
Let’s think this through. The allegation is that a dead person, people still in jail, and made up names were being registered. Names in all three categories will be caught by the state’s HAVA-compliant system after the interfaces I mentioned were turned on.
The SVRS system interfaces with records maintained by the Department of Corrections (which has the list of people in prison as well as unemanciated felons), dead people (the vital records maintained by the Deparment of Health Services), and all driver records mantained by WisDOT.
So, folks, what’s the problem? None of these “bad” names would be permitted to vote! The system now works!
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 07, 2008 at 1800 hrs
My point is that anytime you have a set of rules, smart people can find ways to “game” them, especially if there are few controls or double-checks in place. If you want an honest answer to your question, scott - YES, I believe that there is a small segment of the activist base who is actively trying to “add” votes any way they can, including fraudulent registrations and double voting.
For instance, what would have happened if the woman in the article had simply accepted the fact that her dead husband had been “re-registered”, then had her brother come in from Waukesha County to vote under his name? Who would have known?
Wally - another scenario - what if someone registered with a random address and a made-up 4-digit SS# instead of a DL#? It is allowed by the current law and would not be caught by the database, and since we don’t require a photo ID at the polls, that vote could be cast - by who? - no one would ever know!! These are the types of scenarios that cause me concern.
Now, with HAVA, we are slowing getting some checks enacted (like the database cross-checking). However, that still only cleans the rolls leading up to the election…doesn’t do anything about late or same-day registrations. Those votes get cast and counted and maybe something happens to someone later (very unlikely). Further checks and balances have been vigorously opposed by, IMHO, those who seek to benefit from the current situation.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 07, 2008 at 2235 hrs
Wiaggie, you are imagining problems where none exist. Take the dead man. Let’s assume the wife says nothing. The database check (which now occurs automatically, no longer done by hand!) shows that he is no longer breathing and can no longer vote!
Again, the handful of crooked ACORN workers werre attempting fraudulent voter REGISTRATION, which is a long way from fraudulent voting. The system would have prevented all of the registrations even if the ACORN leaders hadn’t been honest!
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 08, 2008 at 0604 hrs
Wally, you are assuming no problems exist when opportunities do. The dead man may have been caught down the line by the database cross-check - but would have been on the rolls for a time. And, of course you are assuming that ACORN has no agenda other than civic pride (assisting folks who just want to vote) - if you don’t think their efforts are coordinated with the Democratic Party, above board or not, you are naive.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 08, 2008 at 1509 hrs
“The dead man may have been caught down the line by the database cross-check - but would have been on the rolls for a time. And, of course you are assuming that ACORN has no agenda other than civic pride (assisting folks who just want to vote) - if you don’t think their efforts are coordinated with the Democratic Party, above board or not, you are naive.”
Wiaggie, your true motivation shines through—VOTER SUPPRESSION! You want it as difficult as possible folks hwo don’t think like you to vote. Of course the Democratic Party coordinates with groups which seek to get more people to vote! What’s the sin in that.
And you’re “dead” wrong about the dead man getting on the rolls. When the card is turned in, the cross-check will be run, and the fact of the man’s death prevents the name from going on the list of registered voters. This is a rebutable presumption of course, and if the man can come forward and properly identify himself he is “good to vote”!
Again, with the cross-check system now fully functional, what’s the LEGITIMATE problem, folks? The truth is that there isn’t a problem!
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 09, 2008 at 0759 hrs
I love how fast liberals jump to crying “voter suppression” - like it’s wrong to ensure that every person who is casting a vote is qualified and cannot cast another. The difference is that people on the right don’t consider committing fraud - we try to turn out our voters and, like 2006, accept our defeats at the polls and move on (unlike Democrats who are still lamenting 2000 and 2004).
You are wrong about the dead man - the cross-check occurs at the state level with the DMV and DOC databases. The reason the case cited was discovered was that the wife got a confirmation card in the mail - the only cross-check at the local level is whether the post office cannot deliver that card or if someone reports an error. Like I said, the potential is definitely there - it’s only a matter of whether dishonest people choose to exploit it. I don’t see the difficulty posed by another check with photo ID - only contrived arguments against it.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 09, 2008 at 1210 hrs
“You are wrong about the dead man - the cross-check occurs at the state level with the DMV and DOC databases. The reason the case cited was discovered was that the wife got a confirmation card in the mail - the only cross-check at the local level is whether the post office cannot deliver that card or if someone reports an error.”
Wiaggie, you are surely a candidate for DENSA. The wife-got-the-postcard scenario arose BEFORE the cross-check interfaces in SVRS were turned on this week. Now new registrations will automatically be “scrubbed” against the vital records maintained by the Department of Health Services (i.e. death certificates!), the list of inmates and unemancipated felons maintained by the Department of Corrections, and the driver files maintained by WisDOT. This eliminates the particular example that you are all in a lather about!
Give it up. You are wrong!
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on August 09, 2008 at 1314 hrs
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