A Conservative’s Response to the Recall Drive
As I’m sure you are aware, the attempt by liberals to recall Governor Walker begins tomorrow. It is an utterly misguided effort. Read my column tomorrow for some more thoughts on that. But as a conservative guy in Wisconsin who supports Scott Walker and the direction he is leading this state, here’s what I plan to do and suggest y’all might consider doing it too.
1) Record and report.
A recall drive is a public activity and participants are generally working in a public setting. I will take pictures, record conversations, take videos, and publicize it all. I hope that the folks are on their best behavior, because a lot of us will be watching. In fact, the Republican Party has set up a website to collect all of these reports. You can find it at Recall Integrity Center.
2) Power of the purse.
Just like the recall employees/volunteers, everyone who signs a recall petition is signing a public document. I’ll be looking at those names and making them public - especially for people in my neck of the woods. If you sign the petition and happen to own or run a local business, you can expect me to publicize that fact and decline to spend any more of my hard earned dollars with your establishment. After all, if you get your way I will need those dollars to pay my taxes.
3) Explain yourself.
As a close follower of the issues, I am well-equipped to debate the recall effort, the motivations, and the consequences. If you come to my door or approach me in public, you can expect a lengthy debate. I don’t really care if I convince you the error of your ways, but the longer you are talking to me, the less time you are spending collecting signatures. If you get frustrated and storm off in a huff, I’ll enjoy posting the video/audio. Heck, even if you don’t, it will be fun to highlight your lame arguments.
4) Show ID.
Every recall petition must be signed by the person circulating it. As such, anyone signing it has a responsibility to verify the identity of the circulator to make sure it’s on the up and up. If you ask me to sign it, I will ask for ID, record your information, and use that information as I see fit. If you are from out of state, you can expect to see your name in lights. If you refuse to show me an ID, I’ll be forced to take a picture and ask my readers if they know who you are. I will also ask if you are being compensated and, if so, by whom.
5) Send the cash.
During this period, there are no campaign finance limits on donating to Governor Walker. If you support Scott Walker. If you oppose returning to the days of Doyle and Democrat rule. If you support representative government where politicians serve the terms for which they were elected. Send a check. Do it now. Before you forget. If you have a lot of money, send a big check. If you don’t, then send a little one. It all adds up and there’s no better way to show that you support Scott Walker’s Wisconsin than by sending a check and casting your vote.
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I will not physically threaten or curse anyone collecting signatures. Nor will I do so to anyone who signs the petitions. I will be polite, friendly, and engaged. But I will make every personal effort to ensure that the entire process is legal, lengthy, and unpleasant for all concerned.
Just one man’s response…
I agree with every point you have there, but have a grey area with the business aspect.
I would support you not patronizing a business, but I will not support boycotts. (I don’t believe you are advocating boycotts, but some will interpret that way.) We are free to spend our own money as we see fit. I won’t patronize Wheel and Sprocket because the owner did a commercial for Obama. Boycotts are strong arm tactics of the left and I don’t want to go there.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 14, 2011 at 1119 hrs
Agreed. I wasn’t talking about advocating a boycott. I will merely stop patronizing such businesses and let folks know why.
Posted by Owen on November 14, 2011 at 1136 hrs
Choosing not to patronize a business IS a boycott, a personal one, but it’s still a boycott by definition.
It’s not an organized boycott, but it’s still a boycott. Publicizing your your intent on a blog seems like a step farther down the road to advocating a boycott.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 14, 2011 at 1204 hrs
Parse all you like. I have shared my decisions and reasoning in that regard on this blog for over 8 years now. It’s part of the conversation.
Posted by Owen on November 14, 2011 at 1207 hrs
The first week of signature collection will be interesting.
It doesn’t bode well that the faction of the GOP acknowledged as reasonable and responsible is vowing to make the electorates exercise of it’s constitutional right as lengthy and unpleasant as they can.
It also doesn’t bode well that the degenerate faction of the party openly states it’s willingnes to criminally obstruct the process.
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/11/conservative-sabotage-recall-walker-wisconsin
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 14, 2011 at 1218 hrs
Mama used to say whats good for the Goose is good for the Gander, Johnsonville Brat anyone!?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 14, 2011 at 1223 hrs
Maybe if the democrats, to a man, didn’t open the can of worms on “obstructing the process” and “dragging the process out” I’d feel the way you and your fellow travellers do 3rd. As it is, suck on it.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 14, 2011 at 1228 hrs
That article is from Mother Jones, so it is not really news and probably not true.
(It is fun reacting to a story the way a lefty reacts to anything on Fox news.)
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 14, 2011 at 1248 hrs
Jeez! People are signing a recall petition, not getting an abortion. If you are so confident Walker is leading WI on the right track and has the majority behind him, you wouldn’t need to intimidate people and business owners against signing the petition. Thug!
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 14, 2011 at 1252 hrs
Hey 3rd, don’t start demanding that the GOP hold to behavior standards that the Dems didn’t feel that they had to hold to. When the recall petitioners come to my door they will be met with shouts of SHAME! SHAME! in fact, I might get myself a Segway and follow them around, maybe even pour a beer on them. And if Scott Walker is voted out, me and as many folks as I can pay will take over the Capitol and declare that it is our house. And if Scott Walker is voted out, hopefully the GOP senators will have the good sense to flee Illinois rather than vote on any legislation that rolls back Walker’s agenda. Remember, you guys are the ones that schooled us on how this sort of behavior is not only legal, it is to be admired and celebrated!
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 14, 2011 at 1253 hrs
Mother Jones has a grand total of eight names on FB and it’s a “faction of the party”. LOL!
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 14, 2011 at 1404 hrs
Whatever Terry. The dude who commented a little bit more than an hour before you also PUBLICLY stated a willingness (or at least interest) to commit a crime against petitioners.
There are plenty of degenerates in this state. Some happen to be degenerate Republicans, some happen to be degenerate Democrats. When individuals vow to hold themselves to the standards set by the degenerates on the other side of the political spectrum we have a problem.
All I said is that this going to be ugly. The comments that preceeded mine proved that point.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 14, 2011 at 1426 hrs
3rd way, it may be a small point, but you really should be more specific by saying it is a State constitutional right. It is not in The Constitution, only impeachments are covered in the National Constitution. There are some goofy things in some state constitutions and to infer this recall would have been supported by the founding fathers is presumptuous.
I have asked this before with no answer and sometimes you can at least give a go at some tougher questions. Why are there rules for both recalls and impeachments in 19 of the 50 states? I honestly did not know that until a few weeks ago. I thought it was a part of our national constitution.
Because of that, I was a bit outraged when I first read about the Republicans legislating ‘new’ rules for recalls that seem rather self-serving. Then I found out less than half the states even have provisions for recalls and now I think they should legislate it out completely. If an elected official does something wrong they should be impeached. What Walker has done is not ‘wrong’ and now I think ‘new rules’ is not going far enough. Simpler is better, cut out recalls completely. It would help Dems in the future as much as it helps Reps now.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 14, 2011 at 1448 hrs
There are plenty of degenerates in this state. Some happen to be degenerate Republicans, some happen to be degenerate Democrats.
3rd, please give us some examples of “Degenerate Democrats”.
-Thanks,Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 14, 2011 at 1449 hrs
Kudos to Owen!
Influence your world to the legal extent possible. The liberals are trying to overturn the results of a legitimate election to serve their own selfish interests… why should you not be free to pursue your own best interests? The libs have forfeited their claim to “the greater good” argument. The time for polite politics is over.
Put a boot in their seat and pass them a tissue.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 14, 2011 at 1454 hrs
please give us some examples of “Degenerate Democrats”.
That segway loser, the dude who poured a beer on the other dudes head and Gwen Moores kid.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 14, 2011 at 1458 hrs
The time for polite politics is over.
Put a boot in their seat
-Degenerate
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 14, 2011 at 1500 hrs
3rd, I never heard any Dems calling off the dogs during the budget fight. In fact, Barca and his cronies encouraged the protestors. Where was Barca and Mike Tate et al when the demostrators were disrupting a Special Olympics event or the opening ceremonies of the state fair? If they don’t want divisive politics like their people practice, then they should be out there loudly condemning it and demanding that it stop. They won’t do that until it is used against them. Instead, at best, we get a timid “tsk-tsk” from them. Well, their timidity has established the rules for what is acceptable discourse in the political sphere. I’ve never really understood this liberal mindset that they can be as degenerate as they want but conservatives had better play by every jot and tittle of the rules. Witness the Occupy events. The Tea Party organizers had to jump through every single bureaucratic hoopp in order to hold their events. Occupy just shows up and declares that they are here and won’t be leaving and then nothing gets done about it. OK, then future Tea Party events don’t have to go through a long and very expensive permitting process. Or do they?
Rmember: If you don’t like the rules that we play by, then you shouldn’t have allowed them to be established.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 14, 2011 at 1600 hrs
Haven’t heard the Democratic leadership discourage the protesting in front of Gov. Walker’s private residence in Wauwatosa either ...
Posted by hsgbdmama on November 14, 2011 at 1706 hrs
Oh yeah, if Walker is recalled, the first thing that his replacement would do that in any way runs contrary to the GOP agenda, will bring on scads of recall efforts by conservatives.
What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
Don’t establish rules that you refuse to be governed by as well.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 14, 2011 at 1717 hrs
I feel sorry for all of you angry people. It’s not good for your health.
I should not appreciate a great painting because the artist is a socialist?
I should not hire a good plumber because he opposes gay marriage?
Ridiculous. Grow up.
One of these days the great middle is going to pull this car over.Posted by Charlie Hillman on November 14, 2011 at 2101 hrs
TAXTOTHEMAX,
And when the money runs out? What then Lefty? Hope for a Fed bailout? Think twice commie.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 14, 2011 at 2314 hrs
Clown,
Posting @ 11:15 pm, did you just get kicked out of the Tavern after the game?
You must be new here, go back and read some of my posts.
I’m sure you gave many here a good laugh, including me!“Clown”- thats fitting….although I’d add dumbass in front of it.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 15, 2011 at 0907 hrs
Ah TTTM, yes we know you and as always, as nuanced as a kick in the crotch.
I think clownboy was going for satire.
And here’s some irony for you. Owen clearly wants people held responsible for their views. He does walk the walk. And yet you hid behind a pseudonym. How about growing a pair and telling us who you are. I’m sure Owen wants to rush over and spend some money at your business.Posted by Charlie Hillman on November 15, 2011 at 0953 hrs
And yet you hid behind a pseudonym. How about growing a pair and telling us who you are.
He can’t - it would adversly impact his day job as a super hero.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 15, 2011 at 1026 hrs
Boys and Girls I’m all Goose bumpy from the personal attention, but back to the topic. Liberals called for (and jumped on) the boycott Johnsonville Train when Johnsonville donated to Walker, And what about not supporting retailers that didn’t stick the pro union signs in their windows during the collective bargaining debate? - Where was all the outrage form my Libby friends when that economic beat down was going on??? Now at the mere mention that conservatives give a second thought on where they spend their money the liberals go apoplectic! Open wide, here comes a heaping spoonful of your own damn medicine.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 15, 2011 at 1143 hrs
I just signed and am proud of it, I hope you got a picture of me! Go knock yourself out and do what you have to do. You should know that this is not a Liberal issue, this is a people and decency issue. Republicans are signing the petitions just as much as Democrats and Independents. If you are so informed you should know that, should have got out and met the protesters, would have opened your eyes. I just watched the video of Go. Walker claiming how good recalls were, when someone else was recalled in Mil. and how good it was to see people stand up for their rights. Funny how different it is when he is the one being recalled! I don’t pay much attention to people who are afraid to publish their names, they must not believe in their cause too much.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 15, 2011 at 1446 hrs
I just signed and am proud of it,
Just one of many times Bette??
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 15, 2011 at 1524 hrs
I did make a statement on facebook about people protesting at Walker’s house. His children should not have to endure that. To them he is a dad. Protesting where Walker works OK, but going up and down the sidewalk screaming or chanting where his wife and children eat, sleep, play etc is not OK. It’s scary for kids, security risk for them and annoying or potentially dangerous to others that live in his neighborhood.
No I’m not a conserv or a dem. I used to be a registered dem but got fed up with both parties equally. Thus changing party affiliation to indie. I like to be able to consider the issues without having to tow the party line.
I lived in Cali when the recall of Gov Davis was going on. Yes it was ugly on both sides. It did not represent either side well. The dems were saying the same things the Repubs in WI are saying now. The repubs them were saying what the WI dems are saying now. Just something to think about.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 15, 2011 at 1932 hrs
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Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 16, 2011 at 1158 hrs
Pat, I can only imagine the silence in the Madison media if it turns out that the owner of that cafe busted his own window or that it was done by a recall supporter. Having a note tied on the rock? Whose interest does this serve?
It just smacks of the MO of unionists or liberal radicals. That isn’t the typical behavior of conservatives.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 16, 2011 at 1210 hrs
Yup Pat, sadly it begins….............
http://mediatrackers.org/2011/11/dems-head-to-cemetery-to-recall-walker/
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 16, 2011 at 1257 hrs
Yes your very right. That is indeed very sad.
It appears anyone can create an event on that site. Looks like the work of thugs and agitators.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 16, 2011 at 1520 hrs
TTM, that is possibly the LEAST believable “event” ever posted on any political website. I would be willing to bet any amount of money that a Republican posted that event.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 16, 2011 at 1540 hrs
While I doubt TTTM actually believes that cemetery article was genuine, I fully believe that Pat and VAP think a pro-Walker person threw the rock, even though it only hurts their cause. Am I wrong?
Of course. all this eye for a gander’e eye commentary lends some credence, I guess, but it seems that most of the, shall we say, physical protests have been from provable liberal sources. Rocks through recruiter windows, dumping beer, capitol effacement, refusal of reasonable police demands, tire slashings even the recent Walker death threat.
Any libs, please point out a list of precedents where Conservative supporters used physical means to ‘get their point across’. I admit, I don’t read the Huff. Maybe there are lots of incidences that might make me believe some dumbass lib clown is trying to make Walker supporters look bad.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 17, 2011 at 1538 hrs
Bette Crapser,
My name is Rick Loos, I use a moniker because more people recognize it. Please elucidate. What makes this a people and decency issue? I am not a Republican and did not vote for Walker, though I will go and vote for him in the recall.I think it indecent that public workers had all the privileges that they had, not at the expense of the 1%, but at my expense. At the expense of every one of my neighbors struggling to make their house payments and all of the ones that failed. The public union collective bargaining privileges created just that, a new privileged class. In the midst of paying for their guaranteed very generous health and retirement benefits, I have to try and save enough for my own. If I continue at the rate I am at, including hoped for raises, I can retire at 71 and have roughly equivalent retirement payouts to teachers that can retire in their early fifties. I have an education degree, it wasn’t that hard. Why do they get what I cannot afford at my expense?
Please, tell me how I am being indecent by favoring public workers to take a 5-8% interest in their own retirements where I have to pay for 98% of mine? (I get a 2% 401k match) What squalor are public union workers backsliding in to (outside of their own protest areas) where this is a human issue? Collective bargaining privileges are not universal or inalienable rights. If that were the case, everyone is entitled. Why are you so proud of fighting for what, about 2-4% of the Wisconsin people getting privileges that 90% or so of the other 96-98% of the population does not get?
Or are you an unthinking ranter? I hear interviews of kids and OWS people and all they can say is that ‘it is wrong’ or that ‘the 1% is screwing the middle class’. How is it wrong that conservatives voted someone who is actually on the other side of the collective bargaining table? 1% of the people did not vote Walker in to office specifically to scale back government, a majority did.
When times are good, people paid through taxes should have it good. How is it so inconceivable that when times are bad, people paid by taxes should also feel the pain? You are proud of that? Please explain.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 17, 2011 at 1605 hrs
Any libs, please point out a list of precedents where Conservative supporters used physical means to ‘get their point across’.
While I’m not a liberal, but because you asked, I can name a few times of conservative violence. There’s probably more. An act of violence can be perpetuated by any person with the right motivation, and there’s been lots of motivation in the last couple years.
A Rand Paul supporter stomps the head of a young woman.
With President Barack Obama at the U.S. Capitol to address a joint session of Congress on the subject of health care reform, Joshua Bowman, 28, of Falls Church, Virginia, attempts to drive his Honda Civic into a secure area near the building. U.S. Capitol Police stop him and, searching his vehicle, find a rifle, a shotgun, and 500 rounds of ammunition. He is arrested.
Jim Adkisson shoots and kills two people at a progressive church in Knoxville, Tennessee, wounding two. Adkisson calls it “a symbolic killing” because he really “wanted to kill…every Democrat in the Senate & House, the 100 people in Bernard Goldberg’s book,” but was unable to gain access to them.
Charles Turner Habermann, 32, is arrested and charged with threatening a federal official after leaving a series of disturbing voicemails for U.S. Rep. Jim McDermott (D-WA) on December 9, 2010. Habermann, enraged by comments that McDermott made opposing tax cuts for the rich.”
James Patock, 66, of Pima County, Arizona, is arrested on the National Mall in the District of Columbia after law enforcement authorities find a .223 caliber rifle, a .243 caliber rifle barrel, a .22 caliber rifle, a .357 caliber pistol, several boxes of ammunition, and propane tanks wired to four car batteries in his truck and trailer. Patock former neighbor in Arizona reported that, “He hated the president. He hated everything. He said if he got a chance he would shoot the president.”
Camp Hill prison guard Raymond Peake, 64, is charged with robbery and the murder of Todd Getgen and theft of his guns. Peake tells police that he and Tuso had been stealing guns “for the purpose of overthrowing the federal government.”
California Highway Patrol officers arrest Byron Williams, 45, after a shootout on I-580 in which more than 60 rounds are fired. Williams, a convicted felon, reveals that he was on his way to San Francisco to “start a revolution” by killing employees of the ACLU and Tides Foundation. Williams’ mother says her son was angry at “Left-wing politicians” and upset by “the way Congress was railroading through all these Left-wing agenda items.”
After voting for health care reform legislation, Rep. Bart Stupak (D-MI) and Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC)receive faxes with drawings of nooses.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 17, 2011 at 1728 hrs
Well lookie here:)
Thanks Bill.
http://www.w-c3.org/docs/3Steps.pdf
That step #3 is interesting isn’t Owen?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 17, 2011 at 1912 hrs
Pat, in a country of 300 million, we will find some of just about everything. I apologize, I meant to say local, in the state of Wisconsin. And really, I was looking for something in the Doyle administration or later. Nationally, you can find anything. I am sure there are some, but there have been at least 2 proven incidences that involved a lib masquerading as a conservative in Wisconsin, but outside a couple of relatively tame shout downs on (was it Feingold?) I can’t think of any types of incidences I named above perpetrated by conservatives on liberals.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 18, 2011 at 0954 hrs
I meant to say local, in the state of Wisconsin
This recent incident is closer to home.
MILWAUKEE (AP) — A Marshfield man who planned to kill abortion providers in Madison this week was thwarted on the eve of the intended attack when his gun accidentally fired in a motel room, leading to his arrest for reckless endangerment, according to a federal complaint filed Thursday.
Ralph Lang, 63, confessed his intentions to investigators, saying his goal was “to lay out abortionists because they are killing babies,” the complaint said.
He was charged with attempting to injure or intimidate a person who provides reproductive health services. He was scheduled for an initial appearance Friday.
The FBI assisted in the investigation. When asked whether Lang was acting alone or as part of a larger plan, FBI spokesman Leonard Peace said he couldn’t comment because the investigation was continuing.
Lang had a history of targeting Planned Parenthood buildings. Court documents said he was arrested in 2007 outside a Madison branch, telling officers that everyone in the building deserved to be executed and that police were failing in their jobs by not carrying out the executions.
He told authorities he bought the .38 caliber gun about two years after his arrest “to help end abortion.”
He brought the gun to the Madison clinic last week but didn’t shoot anyone because he was having spiritual struggles, the complaint said.
Lang returned Wednesday afternoon with the gun and about 35 bullets. He checked into a motel room, then drove by the Planned Parenthood clinic to see if anyone was standing outside, authorities said. Lang told investigators his plan was to return when it opened Thursday morning.
“What was I going to do? Take a gun, drop the abortionist” with a shot to the head, he told police. When asked if he meant he was going to kill the abortionist he said, “yah, stop them from killing other people and other babies.”
Investigators asked if he meant to shoot only the doctor or kill the nurses as well. Lang said he wished he could “line them all up in a row, get a machine gun and mow them all down,” the complaint said.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 18, 2011 at 1214 hrs
Nice sample size. Dude isn’t even conservative.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 18, 2011 at 1255 hrs
Walker Opponents Plagued By Threats, Thefts
SUN PRAIRIE, Wis.—Opponents of Gov. Scott Walker said they have faced threats and thefts in the days since the recall effort began.
Two volunteers in the petition drive reported violent threats made against them to the police. Neighbors in Monona also complained to authorities of politically motivated thefts from their yards.
The threats involved phone calls from an area code in Minnesota. The calls came overnight after Walker’s opponents began the recall, said Tom Peer, who received a call at 2 a.m. Thursday.
“They said, ‘If you don’t stop circulating recall petitions, we will kill you,’” said Peer, of Madison.
A similar call came to Heather DuBois Bourenane of Sun Prairie. The United Wisconsin recall worker jumped out of bed when her phone rang around 4 a.m. Thursday.
“He said I had attracted the attention of some very bad people, and my life and the lives of my family were in danger,” DuBois Bourenane said. She called Sun Prairie Police, who confirmed investigators were working on the case.
The male voice’s number came from the Minneapolis area. WISC-TV called that number Sunday, but the calls went straight to voicemail and the message service hadn’t been activated.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 21, 2011 at 0647 hrs
Nice unconfirmed report. You lefties really gotta reach…
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 21, 2011 at 0654 hrs
Okay, so all you can find are the nut case death threats that are unconfirmed, as opposed to the lefties actually caught making death threats to righties and not prosecuted, except for some yard signage theft. None of the day in, day out property damage or actual assaults like the lefties are constantly perpetrating. That is what I found too.
Besides all that, as usual, no libs will ever explain how this is a human, or decency issue, or how it is ‘Just wrong!’ All anyone could even try to answer was the insignificant portion of my questions. That is not an insult to you Pat, I don’t even remember if you are for or against the recall.
It is so ironic that the OWS and recall people claim they are the 99%, but when it comes down to it, they are the 5%. This whole battle is about the extra privileges given to a special class of 5% of the WI population. Actually more like 4% if you don’t count part time Government help, because they generally don’t get the union representation and thus the perks that this is all about.
The only cogent argument I have seen is self-interest, i.e. ‘wouldn’t you take the perks if they were offered to you?’ Sure, and I would fight to keep them. The amazing part is that the other 96% pay for these special privileges and many of them somehow believe the 4% deserves the special privileges in perpetuity and that somehow the ‘1%’ will pay for them, not themselves. The same OWS people who complain of too much debt, too expensive (Gov’t run) schooling and too high taxes are the ones fighting like devils to be able to continue paying for the too high taxes and too expensive schooling so they can continue to keep too much debt.
Bette, this is not a human or a decency issue because you say it is. You are deluded and a liar unless you can come back on here and defend your statement. Trust me, you are not a better, smarter, or more dedicated person for using your real name while spreading delusions and ignorance.
This issue is just about the exact opposite of a decency issue. The 4% affected by Walker’s budget are virtually all in the top 20% of earners in the state after 10 years of employ utterly regardless of performance while union full time workers are all in the top 20%. What collective bargaining has achieved is another privileged class. You are fighting for a privielged class to keep its special privielges. You may be part of the minority that thinks they deserve it for failing to teach the majority of city kids to read, write or do math, but if you are for decency, you will not want to recall Walker. You will want the public workers to take a hit when their employers take a hit, rather than have a shrinking number of people pay them more each year.
Let me try and reach out for reason in one more way. I will use fictitious numbers for ease, but the percentages will be about right:
4% of the WI people are public workers negatively affected by the Walker budget, the other 96% (and, ironically through tax burden the 4%) are positively affected.
Let’s optimistically pretend that 65% of people in WI are gainfully enough employed to pay signifcant taxes through income and/or property. This includes all 4% of the public workers. Now we hit a recession and we drop the actual significant payers to 60%(a truly conservative figure). The 60% now must still pay for the full 4%(no layoffs there yet) plus their guaranteed raises. Oh, and since the Governent raided most of the monetary funds of all of their retirees in the past, the 4% is now closer to 6% because even though they have retired at 50 something, we are partially paying for retired people with taxes collected today, and we are paying them much of what we were paying them before they retired. This extra burden on the 60% makes another 1% of people to decide to default on their home, thus losing another portion of the significant payers. How is it decent to support the 4%?Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 21, 2011 at 0856 hrs
That is not an insult to you Pat, I don’t even remember if you are for or against the recall.
I have no stake in the recall. It’s in the constitution that there can be a recall if a significant number of people call for it.
There are other things that I’d like to see such as
A flat tax on all income including capital gains
end of all deductions
end of earned income tax credit
Campaign finance reformPosted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 21, 2011 at 1209 hrs
I have no stake in the recall. It’s in the constitution that there can be a recall if a significant number of people call for it.
Or if the Recall Petitioners have enough cigarettes for all the kids that sign.
Yup Pat, sadly it begins…...........
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 21, 2011 at 1437 hrs
Yup Pat, sadly it begins…...........
And sadly it continues.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 21, 2011 at 1842 hrs
What I am curious about Owen is your current position relative to anonymous political speech and/or campaign contributions?
Are you on board with Glenn?Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 22, 2011 at 0723 hrs
Or if the Recall Petitioners have enough cigarettes for all the kids that sign.
What kids are you talking about?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 22, 2011 at 1150 hrs
Fact,
The legislation should be banning businesses from donating. Does that mean I am neither for nor against Glenn? Of course, if reality has to be taken in to account, I am against the legislation. It is exactly the right of people to boycott anyone they wish based on any reasons they can come up with. If you are willing to make your personal market decisions based upon whether you believe a specific company was/is for or against your political party, you absolutely should have the right to know what businesses were most responsible for putting any politician in to a public office.I strongly suggest to all liberals to go buy Solyndra stock immediately. They clearly support the liberal party.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 23, 2011 at 1049 hrs
I’d agree that Solyndra was a boondoggel and a waste of taxpayer money, but putting it into perspective, it doesn’t compare to some other boondoggles.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 23, 2011 at 1544 hrs
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 23, 2011 at 1546 hrs
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
I don’t know who said it did.
But when you compare Solyndra to government waste within the military industrial complex it pales in comparison.
That’s where I’d focus my outrage if you want to do something about wasteful spending and who’s paying who to receive the money.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 23, 2011 at 1759 hrs
Comparing one company (among hundreds) to the entire Defense Dept. ... comparing apples to orange groves…
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 23, 2011 at 1950 hrs
Comparing one company (among hundreds) to the entire Defense Dept. ... comparing apples to orange groves…It’s separate companies that are receiving contracts for this. Not the Defense Dept.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 23, 2011 at 2118 hrs
Still apples to orange groves…
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 23, 2011 at 2127 hrs
If Walker gets recalled, don’t be surprised to see Harley Davidson and other big companies leave Wisconsin.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 24, 2011 at 0712 hrs
Still apples to orange groves…
Then I guess you find it acceptable for the billions upon billions of dollars of waste in the orange groves.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 24, 2011 at 0714 hrs
Nice strawman.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 24, 2011 at 1224 hrs
Nice strawman.
The I’ll pose it as a question. Do you find it find it acceptable for the billions upon billions of dollars of waste in the orange groves?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 24, 2011 at 1302 hrs
More concerned with the multi-trillion dollar apple orchard managed by the President for whom you voted.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 24, 2011 at 1326 hrs
More concerned with the multi-trillion dollar apple orchard managed by the President for whom you voted.
I didn’t vote for Obama. I voted Libertarian for Barr. I assume you voted for McCain?
Based on that statement I’m concluding that you’re not very concerned about the billions upon billions of dollars of waste in the orange groves. Perhaps my thinking you find it acceptable wasn’t a strawman after all.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 24, 2011 at 1346 hrs
Pat, if there is a straw man here, it is that you are comparing Gov’t wate with Gov’t waste. For your argument here to be relevant, Obama would have to be trying and failing to shut down ‘Republican supported’ boondoggles. As Obama campaigned with anti-war on his platform, then after taking office has only increased military presences across the globe, I count all of them as Gov’t waste and the only reason Solyndra is significant is because it was at least a triple failure. It was a green failure, a ‘stimulus’ failure, and a future lib payback source failure. Add to that negative press, and a glaringly obvious perception that it was a payback to supporters, and it compares adequately even on your terms.
The military can only take so much negative perception, because so many are proud to have served or had relatives that served, etc. Smeety was right, it is an apple to orange groves comparison. As you yourself said, the military waste is to many companies. To be meaningful, you would have to pick one, shows its total failure and disbandment, complete with loss of jobs, etc. Even then, no one is really arguing that there is no waste in the military, so your point, being a segue in the first place, has very hazy relevance.
Besides all that, my Solyndra stock comment had nothing to do with boondogglery. Based upon the segue argument you began, Republicans should buy ‘big military’ corporation stocks like Halliburton, because they are at least perceived to be pro-Republican. Which party would make profits and which party would go under?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on November 28, 2011 at 1117 hrs
The original purpose of income tax was to fund the repayment of a $100 million debt that was incurred through war-related expenses. After the war, the tax was repealed, but income tax became permanent during the early 20th century. A lot of Americans are whining regarding taxes. However, compared to income taxes around the world, Americans don’t pay that much. By law, businesses and individuals must file an income tax return every year to determine whether they owe any taxes or are eligible for a tax refund. Income tax is a key source of funds that the government uses to fund its activities and serve the public. Learn more at: https://personalmoneynetwork.com/installment-loans/
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on December 05, 2011 at 0255 hrs
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